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electric fence ground rod??

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
That time of year again (DRY)... Have one little pasture that the fence always works (shocks the horses) in the driest weather. Ground rod is 6 or so ft deep and copper clad (?).....

Rest are galvanized pipe about 3ft deep. Fences don't shock the horses when it's this dry (zaps a person pretty good tho).....

So, is my problem depth or copper vs galvanized? Watering the ground rod doesn't seem to help.

Can't really drive a copper pipe that deep, but would I get the same end result if I got a piece of copper that would slide over a half inch galvanized pipe and drive it in the ground???

I have too many pastures to afford the real thing for each...

Thanks.
 
It could just be that all the ground is that dry. I have an old fence post in the ground about a foot deep that works well.
 
Depends on what type of fencer you have. Low impedance
needs 3 10 ft rods about 6 ft apart or the unit will burn out.
They don't work in dry fields.
The others can be grounded to almost anything mine up in the
orchard is hook to the fence.
Walt
 
Just a thought, are there any power poles near by? I have my fencer hung on one and ground the to copper wire that is stapled the length of the pole by the power company...just a though in these dry days.
 

Usual ground rods here are copper plated steel. They will withstand driving pretty good. However, you can drive them in by starting a small hole by holding the rod in your hands, jabbing it in the ground,pouring some water in the hole to lubricate things, and repeat until deep enough.

You might also try pouring some water around your ground rod.

KEH
 
Dave........the BEST electric fence ground I ever saw as a 52"x16' cattle panel buried FLAT just 6-in under ground. Gotta old chain link fence panel???

Ain't NO LAW that sezs ground rods gotta go straight down. Try driving 3-rods at about 30* angle and connect'em together.

Where I grew up in Durango Colo, the local radio station would "sprinkle" the copper ground plane surrounding the vertical antenna every March for the local highschool BasketBall tournament. .......grounded Dell
 
attaching to a power pole ground is illegal in most locations. If the someone gets hurt down the line you may be responsible.
 
Local electrical code here says I have to have two copper clad steel ground rods
8 feet in the ground, 8 ft apart and tied together for my house.
No local code for the fence though.
I just drove a 6 ft piece of unpainted rebar in the ground with a fence post driver and clamped the cable to it.
 
I don't think your galvanized is deep enough and
would wonder if it hasn't rotted out. I would prefer
the rebar if I couldn't/didn't want to use copper or
copper clad. If you slid copper pipe over galvanized
and drove it in the ground and grounded to the
copper you'd have the advantages of copper with out
all the price, heck even 1/2 inch copper over a 3/8"
rebar to reinforce the copper while driving should
work. I'm thinking I would like to see the ground at
least 4', but after consideration I don't know your
soil type, here I'd be into sand and still above the
water table so I don't think it would make that much
difference for me at least.
 
There are many, many smarter folks on here than me but here's what I have.

Two years ago it got real real dry here late in the summer. My fence was hot said the tester (same one you have) but calves would walk under it with out get'n a pop. I had a galvanized rod, guy from the some company that made my charger and tester said that it was best to use the same type rod as the wire, galvanized wire/rod would work better. Rather than buy more of the rods and clamps they sell at the co-op I got some 10' galvanized post that are full of little holes than a wire can be bolted to, they are much like the post found along road sides,,,, Drilled holes as deep as the post hole digger would go then drove them down with a sledge hammer till they were 9' down, a foot stick'n out of the ground, filled post hole with dirt, bolted a ground wire to them.

After the driest March, April, May, AND June on record here I sold one 4 year old momma cow that learned to jump but calves have never tested the fence with a total of four rods 30' apart, 3 of them be'n 9' deep.

Good luck!!!

Dave
 
(reply to post at 21:02:26 09/07/12)
Click to expand...

Kinda (a lot) limited on what I can do... Burying panels is a nogo, 3 rods xxxft deep maybe, but as soon as someone saw it was there would be trouble. Running a wire around the fence as a ground may be an option, but if a wild animal would be killed or some idiot gets hurt on it, I'd be under the jail....
Chargers are parmaks (6volt solar and 12 volt car battery), pastures are an acre or less (most less).
Will go deeper and try copper on the grounds and water them to see what happens. Calling for an inch or so of rain on tuesday, so should be back to normal..
I think a good bit of it is also that the hooves are dry with the weather and not as conductive also... Tester says hot, I can get a jolt, and if I crowd a band against a Tpost, get almost a blue spark.
 
Rebar and old buggy axles make poor ground rods.Poor ground rods will give you problems with fuse blowing at the charger.I used 2 copper clad ground rods 45 years ago still working fine.
 
(quoted from post at 02:49:08 09/08/12) Rebar and old buggy axles make poor ground rods.Poor ground rods will give you problems with fuse blowing at the charger.I used 2 copper clad ground rods 45 years ago still working fine.
Click to expand...

Is the idea of slipping a piece of copper pipe over rebar or other pipe and driving it in workable???
 
Wrong...Heres why,When they put new poles in along my road frontage they sawed the old poles off and left the old ground rods.I pulled one ,it was rusted away.Top looked fine.A lightning strike or trans former failure will put high line voltage on your fence.A car hitting a pole could drop a hot wire onto your fence.An electric fence that runs under or along a power line is a hazard.Ive seen a power line melt stones when it arced to the roadside.
 
Length of copper tubing would cost more than a copper clad ground rod now.I think the idea is a pipe dream anyway.Ground rods drive hard here because of all the stones.There a way to test a ground rod but I wont post it.Dufus would electrocute himself doing it.
 
(quoted from post at 03:23:24 09/08/12) Length of copper tubing would cost more than a copper clad ground rod now.I think the idea is a pipe dream anyway.Ground rods drive hard here because of all the stones.There a way to test a ground rod but I wont post it.Dufus would electrocute himself doing it.
Click to expand...

For some reason (environmental maybe??) copper ground rods don't seem to be available here (always galvanized)... The one I have was some leftover parts of a couple military power generator grounding kits. Guess I'll just go a little deeper and wait for rain.....
 
Ground rods have a thin layer of copper rolled on a steel core under high pressure.Much thicker than plating.I sold copper clad rods in my shop for 40 years, Cost 8 bucks at the last of it still a hard sell to titewads who used junk for ground rods.They blamed the fence charger when livstock got out.
 
(quoted from post at 03:36:17 09/08/12) Ground rods have a thin layer of copper rolled on a steel core under high pressure.Much thicker than plating.I sold copper clad rods in my shop for 40 years, Cost 8 bucks at the last of it still a hard sell to titewads who used junk for ground rods.They blamed the fence charger when livstock got out.
Click to expand...

OK... I'll try looking again.

Now, with the chargers I have (parmak 6 volt solar and the 12 volt battery ones). My biggest fence is a half mile loop of 3 bands of electric tape (or rope on a couple). Farthest point being 300 yards from the charger. Do you think that 1 - 6 or 8 ft CC rod would fix my problems?
Are the rods that come in 3ft (?) sections and screw together (only thing I can have sent to me) as good as a solid length?

Thanks.
 
(quoted from post at 22:46:55 09/07/12)
(reply to post at 21:02:26 09/07/12)
Click to expand...

Kinda (a lot) limited on what I can do... [b:06723cf5bc]Burying panels is a nogo, 3 rods xxxft deep maybe, but as soon as someone saw it was there would be trouble. Running a wire around the fence as a ground may be an option, but if a wild animal would be killed or some idiot gets hurt on it, I'd be under the jail.... [/b:06723cf5bc]
Chargers are parmaks (6volt solar and 12 volt car battery), pastures are an acre or less (most less).
Will go deeper and try copper on the grounds and water them to see what happens. Calling for an inch or so of rain on tuesday, so should be back to normal..
I think a good bit of it is also that the hooves are dry with the weather and not as conductive also... Tester says hot, I can get a jolt, and if I crowd a band against a Tpost, get almost a blue spark.
Click to expand...


Dave, why is burying a panel out, why would someone give you problems for using 3 ground rods and as far as running the ground wire, what in heavens name makes you think a fencer will kill a wild animal?
 
(quoted from post at 04:34:40 09/08/12)
(quoted from post at 22:46:55 09/07/12)
(reply to post at 21:02:26 09/07/12)
Click to expand...

Kinda (a lot) limited on what I can do... [b:8e015f0b0b]Burying panels is a nogo, 3 rods xxxft deep maybe, but as soon as someone saw it was there would be trouble. Running a wire around the fence as a ground may be an option, but if a wild animal would be killed or some idiot gets hurt on it, I'd be under the jail.... [/b:8e015f0b0b]
Chargers are parmaks (6volt solar and 12 volt car battery), pastures are an acre or less (most less).
Will go deeper and try copper on the grounds and water them to see what happens. Calling for an inch or so of rain on tuesday, so should be back to normal..
I think a good bit of it is also that the hooves are dry with the weather and not as conductive also... Tester says hot, I can get a jolt, and if I crowd a band against a Tpost, get almost a blue spark.
Click to expand...


Dave, why is burying a panel out, why would someone give you problems for using 3 ground rods and as far as running the ground wire, what in heavens name makes you think a fencer will kill a wild animal?
Click to expand...

Can't do anything that looks "permanent"... Places are rented and the owners wouldn't allow burying something like a panel, and read Old's old post about dead birds on a fence (shorted out on a post?)... May never happen, it's the "if" that is always hangin over your head....
 
Don't forget the Galvanic Series, copper and rebar would definitely be dissimilar, which means oxidation and possibly corrosion. Steel being inside, copper out, with the connection say from a copper leader to the charger, would seem to work, but its hard to say how long the pipe would last or the extent of oxidation on the interior, would it eventually corrode the wall thickness of the copper pipe might take awhile. Same thing with copper and galvanized, they are dissimilar and will oxidize. If had some sort of dielectric union, well thats for plumbing transitions from one material to the other, but say a bond break between the 2 materials, that would prevent galvanic action, or oxidation from dissimilar metals in contact, also in moist conditions which would make it worse.

Aside from the electrical specifications calling for something particular, copper clad with moist soil always worked well for me, there are times you have to soak around the ground rods, with a hose not a bucket to get the moisture up adequate enough, soak dry ground with a bucket, its going to absorb that in no time, you need a soaker.

We have places that ledge rock is only a few feet down, so I take several shorter copper clad rods, cut from one, drive those in, clamp each in series and wire with 10 ga, thhn non stranded copper or what the heck it is with the insulation, also use copper to the galvanized steel wire, so that I have the best conductor material to ground and to the fence. Again the splice between copper and galvanized wire is dissimilar materials, can or will oxidize, so those get splices get checked, cleaned, re-done if need be.
 
This is really the only answer. Both wires come from the hot and cold terminals of the power supply.

For pouring water on your PS ground rod, you'd have to have a continuous wet surface all around your yard for that to work.

I don't use a ground rod at all. I just tie the low side to one of the strands of fence wire and let it go at that. The multiple strands and posts distribute it. I don't use it as a stand alone fence. I install it inside a regular fence to keep the cows from pushing the fence over trying to get "the greener grass" on the other side of the fence.

My experience with the subject is that once the animals learn that the fence will smack them, they shy from it and you can turn your power supply off.

Had a neighbor with about 30 cows in a field with new growth after harvesting a crop. All he had was a hot wire positioned about 12" off the ground. The ground was almost bare inside, yet just out of reach outside the wire it was nice and green and tall.

My 2c,
Mark
 
Moiostures is not what makes most fences work. Contrary to what most people think.. It is the mineral content in the ground. Reason it works better in wet conditions is the moisture helps improperly grounded fences. A fence in poor mineral ground needs 3-5 galvanized rods 6 ft deep spaced 20 ft apart. Sounds stuppid I know. All connected with number 8 copper wire. I have chose to go one step cheaper and use the galvanized track from old garage doors. Not only are they better because they have more surface touching the ground than round rod ,But they are usually free. If this don't wrk with horses the best is run the middle wire as a ground,or oil your horses hoves with used oil.
 

If it was my property, I'd let the water tank leak a little to help keep their feet hydrated a little. Should be back to normal in a couple days I hope (rain)....
 
(quoted from post at 04:39:18 09/08/12)
(quoted from post at 04:34:40 09/08/12)
(quoted from post at 22:46:55 09/07/12)
(reply to post at 21:02:26 09/07/12)
Click to expand...

Kinda (a lot) limited on what I can do... [b:ed7070f39f]Burying panels is a nogo, 3 rods xxxft deep maybe, but as soon as someone saw it was there would be trouble. Running a wire around the fence as a ground may be an option, but if a wild animal would be killed or some idiot gets hurt on it, I'd be under the jail.... [/b:ed7070f39f]
Chargers are parmaks (6volt solar and 12 volt car battery), pastures are an acre or less (most less).
Will go deeper and try copper on the grounds and water them to see what happens. Calling for an inch or so of rain on tuesday, so should be back to normal..
I think a good bit of it is also that the hooves are dry with the weather and not as conductive also... Tester says hot, I can get a jolt, and if I crowd a band against a Tpost, get almost a blue spark.
Click to expand...


Dave, why is burying a panel out, why would someone give you problems for using 3 ground rods and as far as running the ground wire, what in heavens name makes you think a fencer will kill a wild animal?
Click to expand...

Can't do anything that looks "permanent"... Places are rented and the owners wouldn't allow burying something like a panel, and read Old's old post about dead birds on a fence (shorted out on a post?)... May never happen, it's the "if" that is always hangin over your head....
Click to expand...

Ah, rented ground. Well, that would put the panel out, but the ground rods can be pulled out easily with a 3pt and a chain or a jack when it's time to leave. As far as the birds...I've been running electric fence for 24+ years and I've never, ever seen any dead animals around the fence. A lightening strike might do it though.
 

Gonna try the ground rods first and replace the band on one fence (8+ years old). Have one that is similar in ground makeup and size that I replaced a 2ft piece of rebar with a 4ft piece of 3/4" copper pipe (got lucky driving it I guess) that broke one of the bundles of joy's heart... Don't know if it made a difference, but I chopped up the dirt around it some, put a plant ring around it, and filled it with water.
Also found some 3/8" by 4ft copper clad rods local and reasonable.
 
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