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Honest Mechanics???? OT or not

O

oldtanker

Well-known Member
Didn't want to highjack the other thread....

Can be considered tractor related cause there are tractor mechanic too....


Just replaced a half shaft on my BIL's car for him. He was quoted almost 300 dollar for just labor. Guy told my BIL that you have to drop the pan and get inside the tranny to remove a clip to get the half shaft out (new one on me). I did it in the drive, without using air tools and not working fast, took 1 1/2 hours. He got the quote from a shop that I worked in about 12-13 years ago. Owner at that time was pretty honest or I wouldn't have worked there. His rates are 65 an hour. The guy has gotten sloppy the last few years and has gotten a reputation for doing poor work, being real slow and now is working on being known as a liar. Kinda sad.

Guess I gotta go pay my old boss a visit and talk to him about taking advantage of my family......

Rick
 
There have been many a business go under since I have been old enough to know.
The honest ones that focus on customer service seem to weather any storm.
On the other hand, the greedy ones that are dishonest and say anything to make a buck seem to find troubled waters.
It just could be my imagination, but I do not think so.
 
His "good" mechanics take an extra hour to study the answers in the back of the ASE test pamphlet.

The old crusty one that hadn't "certified" does it in an hour or so.
 
i can sort of see it,though i hate taking any of my vehicles to the shop.Local lincoln mercury dealer here has One real old mechanic that knows his stuff,others are so called techs that do the real labor.Took my mil's merc in there for a intermitent problem. Bill wasnt all that bad but i was charged to hook up a machine,an hour to get mechanic to read results,and a hour for a tech to replace a part. I guess all the real old time mechanics are a thing of the past,and the turnover rate for low paid techs simply means every job that they do is likely their first time.
 
I been fixing for farmers for many years out of my own shop,trucks, tractors machinery..you name it.
machining and welding too.Plenty times the customer waited while i fixed small stuff for him
Off hrs and week ends no problem,..same $45 hr charge as week days.
1/2 of what the dealers charged,nearest dealer or shop was 30 ml away.

.Very few paid right away,some only after repeat asking,...some never did.
I quit that thankless job as soon as i could afford it.
The more people i got to know,..the better i liked my dogs.
 
A friend took her car into the dealer. Battery was going dead in
one or two weeks of setting. They said they replaced the
battery and the pulled the fuse on the radio circuit. She
brought by for me to look at, it still had the old battery and I
tested the radio circuit it was drawing about 100 mil. Amp.
When I called them about it they had lots of excuses as to why
they charged for the new battery, one was there were two
identical cars in the shop and they got mixed up.
They sent her money back.
Walt
 
Yeah, you have to watch yourself, especially with
so called "friends". I once had a friend of mine
do some work on one of my tractors when I didn't
have the time to do it. While he had it, I said,
"Do a tune up." When I got the bill, I took a
second mortgage and paid it. Five hours of
running time later, the tractor quit. I called
him. He said, "The spark plugs don't last long in
those tractors. Put in a new set". I ripped it
apart and found that out of the four spark plugs,
he had three different plug numbers, none of which
were the correct ones for that tractor. "Time to
clean off the shelf of old parts." Needless to
say, time to end a friendship!
 
Another good one my Ranger would grind gears when shifting
put a new clutch in and it was worse. They tried everything to
fix it to no avail.
Said the I needed a new transmission. Only 20K on the truck.
Took it to another dealer the expert played with it for an hour or so.
Then said my shifter forks were bent.
Took it to another local shop he only listened to what I had to say and then said Rangers have a real bad slave cylinder, had it
fixed and has never worked better. A lot of clowns out there calling themselves mechanics.
Walt
 
While I was on the road. My wife took her car down for the state inspection. I called home that night found out they charged her for a new battery.Told her it was to weak to pass inspection.

I went by that shop on my way home the next day. Had words with the owner. Ask him to show me the rule about a battery passing an inspection. Told me he couldn't let me see the inspection manual.

So I told him I would call Mr Jacks the DPS inspector. Who was a friend of mine.Pulled out Mr Jacks card and showed it to him. Five minutes later I had my money back. Plus a new battery. Six months later the shop was busted by DPS for inspection violations,ripping people off.
 
Arizona shops have a bad reputation of ripping off customers, especially if they are female. Many years ago, I had a flat when I was driving through AZ. I pulled into a station to get the flat fixed.

He had a car up on the hoist, holding it hostage while a woman tried to reach her husband back in Houston because the guy in the station told her that she needed a new set of tires immediately. While she was on the phone trying to call her husband, I walked all around the car and checked her tires.

The guy had told her that she wouldn't make it to L.A. on her tires. I walked up to her and told her that those tires would get her to L.A. and back to Houston and beyond. She hung up the phone and demanded that he let her car down so she could leave!

The guy was really P.O.'d at me after the woman left, but I told him to stuff it! I was bigger than he was, so there wasn't anything he could do about it!
 
This happened at a major car dealer down here.

My insurance lady. Took her new car in for it's first full service.At the dealer where she bought it. Next morning her husband noticed a puddle of oil on the drive way. Crawled under the car thinking the drain plug was loose. Found JB weld on the oil pan where they had cracked it. He had it hauled back to the dealer.

The stuff really hit the fan. When the service writer told him. Whoever your wife had change the oil. Had broken the pan and voided the warranty
 
Would be 42 years ago that my future wife was driving cross-country, coming home after graduating from U Kentucky. In a new '70 Camaro.

Stopped for gas in Arizona, guy kept looking at her tires. Convinced her that he needed to dismount one to look at it. After dismounting, he stretched the bead backwards, and little cracks show up on the bead. Of course, this happens with any tire after it has been mounted (the stretching of the bead to mount it makes the little cracks, which are of no consequence whatever). He said the OEM tires they put on cars are just crap, its just criminal, etc.- so she sprung for the new tires.

It didn't help any that her dad always put new tires on his cars when he bought them- it played right into the guy's hand.
 
I took the War Dept's Durango over to where we bought it to have the ft. aligned and was standing there when Bozo the wrench gets it and put's it on the rack and he gets down in the pit looks around comes up out of the pit and goes over to talk to the service writer , the service writer comes over to me and says you need new ball joints and tie rod ends . I said oh really lets see , he says well you can not go out into the service dept , WHAT ya want to bet watch me and i go out and down into the pit and grab a bar and check nothing wrong with the ball joints or tie rod ends out of the pit i go and into the service mangers office and the shut hits the fan . service manager knows that i am a master certified Chrysler Tech but also a ex Chrysler parts manager . Things did not go well for the tech and the service writer that day . Now two years later i did have to replace the ball joints and tie rod ends with ones that take grease.
 
I'm sure all of us have any number of stories we could share. I've got plenty. Generally don't let myself get taken advantage of. But I know there's plenty that do.
I use a guy to work on my pickups(ford diesels) Mostly when it's stuff I just don't wanna deal with or is over my skill level. He's always been pretty straight with me. Couple times hes's charged the "book rate" on a job when I KNOW it took him less than half the time to do the job. I get it, guy's gotta make a living. But other times he's come out, after hours hauled my broke down rig into his shop to fix a transmission that blew a seal, had me back on the road before work the next day, and never charged me a dime. So overall I'd say we came out pretty square.
So, I sent my (now ex)girlfriend to him when she started havin problems w/ her 6.0 Powerstroke. Long story short, I think he was using her to finance the house he's building in Montana. $6k later she still had a truck that wouldn't run. There just aren't that many parts to change on those things. There are known problems. 7 outta 10 of those rigs have the same issues, ya isolate it and fix it. She finally just got fed up and traded the truck off. I don't think he'll be getting much more of my business

Ben
 
Years ago a guy I worked with stopped me on the way out one night and said the front seal was leaking on his trans. It was mid 70s olds, said two shops had given his a quote, wanted to know what I'd charge. The big maple in the back yard was my shop then, no over head, so I gave him a reasonable price, and got the job. I was ridding with another guy that day, so drove his car home, and he caught a ride with somebody. Jacked it up, rolled under it, dry as a bone under the converter cover, pulled the modulator hose off and trans fluid run out. Quick trip to the burdmans auto parts store, a quart of fluid, and he was ready to go. Dropped it off next morning where he caught rides, that night he said you get that fixed that quick? Yep sure did, ok, whats the bill, told him $15.00. But you told me $50.00, yeah, but it wasn't the seal, modulator was leaking, and now you won't see smoke when you fire it up in the morning. He gave me a $20, and I don't know how much work I got after that from people he told about that job. I never got rich from wrenching, ended up eating some jobs, but never cheated nobody.
 
Guy who gets my business now is good, never finds anything I don't expect.

But I had a bad experience with Sears a few years ago. Time for an inspection and I knew the tires were worn so I replaced them. After I dropped it off I get a call "Needs front end alignment". What makes you say that, I ask? "Uneven tire wear". Tires had less than 200 miles on them. Never went there again.
 
On charging you the going rate. When in the USAF I was able to moonlight at a TV store in the repair dept. We had one customer that had a motel and had 30 or so GE circuit board TV's. We were in a highly corrosive salt environment.

After the motels TV's (all the same model and same mfgr.) got some age on them, they started coming in with horizontal tearing of the picture. Worked my buns off to find the problem and it was nothing more than corrosion between a mounting screw and the alum chassis providing the ground for the horiz. deflection circuit which caused the tearing.

It took me a long time to find the problem, but I amortized that learning process on every unit that came in. I didn't rob them, but I recouperated my investment.

In short, criticize where applicable, but understand too that it costs money to get an education, hard knocks, or university, so in all honesty to the guy you trusted your stuff to to fix, allow him to make a living........unless he is a crook and there are those out there too.

Mark
 
Couple of years ago preachers Wife calls Me at work.She says She has taken her Merc minivan to her mechanic that she trusts because she hears a squeak when she hits the breaks. Shop wants a thousand dollars to fix her brakes,front and back, flush the system and tune up the brakes. I told her to take her car to my house and I will look at it when I get home. Long story short a $24 set of pads on the front and she was good to go. I still don't know how you tune up brakes though.

Ron
 
The shop I go to fixes the small stuff we already know is bad without calling me but if he finds something big he looks up the cost for the part and labor and gives me a call with the quote and asks for my permission before he goes farther, and the price he quotes is the price I pay. No more and no less.

He does mark the parts price up over what I would pay for it at the parts house but I figure he has to keep the doors open. If I would have the audacity to gripe about the price of the part he would have good reason to tell me to take it home and do it myself.

When he does an oil change I do NOT bring the oil and filter and expect him to use it like my FIL used to do. He runs a good honest shop and I respect and applaud him for that. Jim
 
I found the same problem with GE sets.I ran an honest shop for over 40 years.HONESTY DOESNT PAY.At 75 Im in poor health an just getting by.
 
finding a good actual mechanic is a hard deal to do, and about the only way to find out who actually is one is to talk to people you trust, if you know somebody in a auto parts store talk to them they will usually know which ones are good mechanics and which ones are idiots, i dont know about everywhere but in this state, the mechanic trade is about the only one left with no laws governing it, some guy or even kid who changed a set of plugs on a 1964 chevy 6 cylinder can hang out his shingle and bill himself as qualified to work on everything from a briggs and stratton to a 600 Cummings, even though he's never actually seen either one, i do almost all my own repairs but the one i use for the big stuff is a long time mechanic he can actually diagnose and fix whats wrong with your car, not just swap parts out until it starts , ive sat in his shop b/s ing and watched him pull a pickup with a blown engine into his shop at 7;30 am, change out the whole engine and drive the same truck to lunch by 1 pm, there's no need in messing with anybody else, some of them here should be arrested for working on cars, there so poorly talented, i figure if im going to mess something up i can do that by myself, not have to pay some kid to do it for me
 
No I agree with ya. Guy's gotta make a living. But when ya tell me there's 4 hours labor to change out a fuel pump, and then ya call 1:15 later and say it's DONE, but still charge the 4 hours rate, it raises an eyebrow. I know there weren't 3 guys workin on it at once, there's barely enough room for 1 set of hands in there, let alone 3.I paid it, didn't gripe.
I think a better way of goin about it would be to tell the customer "the book sez this is a 4 hour job, but we learned some tricks along the way so now we can do em in 45 minutes. We split the difference with ya and charge 2:30 labor". I feel good cause I'm gettin a better deal than the dealer would charge. He gets to make a few bucks off his learnin curve. Everyone wins.
But when he's stumped on fixin the 6.0, thinks the problem MIGHT be the FICM, swaps it out with no improvement, but still expects $700 for his BEST GUESS?
I don't think so.
He's gettin paid to FIX things, not guess at it.

Ben
 
FICM is very high failure rate . but easy enough to TEST and not guess about it . It does require Tooling , scanners and training , information systems to keep on top of this new stuff all adds up to $$$ . But there is no guessing at my shop .
 
(quoted from post at 18:31:08 08/15/12) Didn't want to highjack the other thread....

Can be considered tractor related cause there are tractor mechanic too....


Just replaced a half shaft on my BIL's car for him. He was quoted almost 300 dollar for just labor. Guy told my BIL that you have to drop the pan and get inside the tranny to remove a clip to get the half shaft out (new one on me). I did it in the drive, without using air tools and not working fast, took 1 1/2 hours. He got the quote from a shop that I worked in about 12-13 years ago. Owner at that time was pretty honest or I wouldn't have worked there. His rates are 65 an hour. The guy has gotten sloppy the last few years and has gotten a reputation for doing poor work, being real slow and now is working on being known as a liar. Kinda sad.

Guess I gotta go pay my old boss a visit and talk to him about taking advantage of my family......

Rick
Click to expand...

You made $102.50 (unless you work for free) and saved him $197.50,,, I would thank your old boss...

Ranch'n is so EZ why don't folks do all their on work,,, are folks that lazy...
A good wrench should B no problem to find,,, Your BIL should find one ( maybe he just did) and Tip him well... I like big tippers 8)

At the end of a hard 12hr day and I only turned 5 billable hours it makes me wounder if I am the fool... Once I found the problem and it should have took a hour if I had seen it 100 times before should I bill just one hour and suck up the 11 as a lost... If a 4 hr job takes me 6hr and I learn to do it in 2 after a dozen of'em should I give up what I learn...

Most anyone can open their own shop and mop up whats holding y'all back...
 
I have found that if you do the job cheap or free if it's a simple fix , folks just don't attach that as of being any value . They don't understand how long or what you went through to aquire that knowledge . I try to charge fair and honest prices that keeps me in business . I hear a lot of "so n so" only charge XX " But "so n so" is no longer in business. Wonder why ? lol
 
A truly honest mechanic is a pleasure to do busines with. Years ago I had a Chevy truck with the quadrajet carb. Was in a predicament where I couldn't work on it myself at that time. Had bad hesitation especially when making a left turn in front of traffic. Called this garage I had never used but was referred to and described the problem. He quoted me $125.00 for a rebuild. When I went to pick it up, the charge was $25.00. He said it just needed a little cleaning and readjustment - never had another problem with it. I trust this guy and use him all the time - especially with all this newfangled computerized stuff.
 
I've never had a Ford 6.0, but a friend of mine is in charge of maintaining a couple hundred ambulances scattered over Nebraska. He said when he started the job most were Ford 6.0's. They switched to Chevy Duramax's and cut their maintenance costs to less than half.
 
If I might offer a little different perspective on this subject. My partner and I own and operate a ten bay general repair shop. Your e-mail doesn't give enough detail to properly evaluate the situation. Did your BIL take the car in to have an estimate? Or did he call and possibly a service writer go by the book and quote the job? There are SUV's that you do have to remove a c-clip to get the axle out. No fun to do, by the way. Lots of times the estimating books or software are very inaccurate. I do my best to avoid over the phone estimates. As to the horror stories about being ripped off, yes that happens. Techs and shops are good, bad, and or incompetent, the same as doctors, politicians, teachers, etc. When is the last time you can remember a doctor admitting to a bad diagnosis? In my experience, most of them simply say they need to run more tests. Recently I had a gentleman come into my shop and point out that I had improperly diagnosed and repaired his Honda Accord, just about a year ago. I checked it out and sure enough I had indeed replaced the wrong part. I refunded most of his money. I couldn't even blame one of the techs, I had done the job myself. Do you know why they put erasers on pencils? Everybody makes mistakes. Only one person has ever led a perfect life.
 
(quoted from post at 19:49:47 08/15/12) If I might offer a little different perspective on this subject. My partner and I own and operate a ten bay general repair shop. Your e-mail doesn't give enough detail to properly evaluate the situation. Did your BIL take the car in to have an estimate? Or did he call and possibly a service writer go by the book and quote the job? There are SUV's that you do have to remove a c-clip to get the axle out. No fun to do, by the way. Lots of times the estimating books or software are very inaccurate. I do my best to avoid over the phone estimates. As to the horror stories about being ripped off, yes that happens. Techs and shops are good, bad, and or incompetent, the same as doctors, politicians, teachers, etc. When is the last time you can remember a doctor admitting to a bad diagnosis? In my experience, most of them simply say they need to run more tests. Recently I had a gentleman come into my shop and point out that I had improperly diagnosed and repaired his Honda Accord, just about a year ago. I checked it out and sure enough I had indeed replaced the wrong part. I refunded most of his money. I couldn't even blame one of the techs, I had done the job myself. Do you know why they put erasers on pencils? Everybody makes mistakes. Only one person has ever led a perfect life.
Click to expand...

No this is a Ford Tempo. He went in and ask my old boss how much the labor charge was to replace the half shaft on the left side. BIL says my old boss told him almost 300 dollars for a job that should be way less than 4 hours (don't have a flat rate manual any longer but I'm guessing about 2 hours or less). When the BIL ask him why so much he was told that he had to get inside the tranny to release the clips to pull the shaft and replace the clips once the new shaft was in. It's been a one man shop for some time now.

BIL is in his late 40's and has been having heart problems. He got a pacemaker this spring and large medical bills so I did the work for free. He would help me out if I needed it.

I'm just disappointed in my former boss for sinking to the level he has.

When I worked for him I never caught him lying to a customer and he did good work. But he's real close to retiring and isn't working to his old standard. Last time I talked to him he lied to me about something unrelated to mechanical work. I also know that he can no longer charge parts, has to pay for them up front with cash or plastic.

Rick
 
I know FICM's have a high failure rate. Also that the 6.0's have(more) than their fair share of issues. But this is a DIESEL shop. That's ALL they do. Diesel pickups. performance upgrades and driveability. You can go in their shop any day of the week and potentilly see three 6.0 Super Duty's with cabs lifted, or a guy on a topside creeper doin head studs, EGR, etc. They should be doin more than guessing. She was 6 grand deep in repairs and still didn't have a rig she could rely on to start up the next mornin.

They were workin her.

Ben
 
A spider gear can drop out of the carrier,,, the axle shafts can be a bear to remove from the hub,,, I have destroyed pullers on them, have the tools to drive the axles out of the differential and retain the spiders if that one side does not come out and you have to remove the other to drive it out... Your old boss may have just been bit before and was covering his but BTDT.

You got lucky must be luck of the draw,,, Luck your BIL needs at this time,,, he's lucky to have you help him out you are both lucky.
 
(quoted from post at 04:44:37 08/16/12) A spider gear can drop out of the carrier,,, the axle shafts can be a bear to remove from the hub,,, I have destroyed pullers on them, have the tools to drive the axles out of the differential and retain the spiders if that one side does not come out and you have to remove the other to drive it out... Your old boss may have just been bit before and was covering his but BTDT.

You got lucky must be luck of the draw,,, Luck your BIL needs at this time,,, he's lucky to have you help him out you are both lucky.
Click to expand...

I don't know Hobo but I'm still wondering why he told the BIL that you have to pull the pan on the tranny. When I worked as a mechanic I changed a lot of half shafts on a lot of front drive cars. Never had to get inside a tranny to do so and never did one that gave more than about 2 hours in the flat rate.

Rick
 
Why are auto mechanics the only workers expected
to break even on their time or work for free?
Would you work for just enough money to pay your
exact expenses at the moment, with nothing extra
for a night out or to save? I doubt it. You
complain about what your BIL was quoted, but then
you did the job for free. How is this mechanic
supposed to compete with that? If he charged $5
he would be "ripping him off".

I am a one man show mechanic. I have a loyal
following and do the best I can. But I am not
cheap and refuse to work for free. I get people I
don't know in all the time wanting quotes and then
try to chew me down because their neighbor can do
it cheaper. I tell them they better have their
neighbor do it then. One of my favorite quotes is
"I fix cheap work."
 
I hear that I can get it cheaper over in the next town all the time.So I tell them fine take it to the next town. Two choices 30 mile round trip or 120 mile round trip. Their choice.
 
(quoted from post at 04:57:44 08/16/12) Why are auto mechanics the only workers expected
to break even on their time or work for free?
Would you work for just enough money to pay your
exact expenses at the moment, with nothing extra
for a night out or to save? I doubt it. You
complain about what your BIL was quoted, but then
you did the job for free. How is this mechanic
supposed to compete with that? If he charged $5
he would be "ripping him off".

I am a one man show mechanic. I have a loyal
following and do the best I can. But I am not
cheap and refuse to work for free. I get people I
don't know in all the time wanting quotes and then
try to chew me down because their neighbor can do
it cheaper. I tell them they better have their
neighbor do it then. One of my favorite quotes is
"I fix cheap work."
Click to expand...

I'm not thinking he should work for free but he should be honest as far as the flat rate goes. I just looked it up online and a fair labor charge at his hourly rate should have been around 135 bucks, not close to 300. My BIL had already purchased the shaft on my account trying to save that generous 30-40% mechanic's mark up so that quote did not include parts. This is the first time I've let him use my account to get a part.

Most of the time I refuse to do auto repairs for people or I charge what they would pay any shop in the area but tell em it's on my schedule and I take my sweet time about that. In my BIL's case he has used that mechanic for years but right now can't work and is still trying to get back on his feet. Right now he's lucky his 2 sons are both working and still at home. He had to sell both his car and truck to pay on med bills not covered by his insurance and he got the Tempo cheap to replace them.

Now as far as a mechanic having to make money.....most of the decent shops in my area are 2-3 weeks behind in thier work. That is how my former boss's place was when I worked for him. Now he is waiting for work to come to him which should tell you something sence everyone else is swamped. Heck we got a young guy who just opened a shop this spring as a one man operation. His 1st month he ran up a 600 bill at the local parts place. Last month he spent very close to 4K. Not too bad for a kid who hasn't even run any ads and just has his shop in the yellow pages.

Rick
 
My thoughts on honest mechanics.

Forgot the Stealerships. Their modus operandi is find sucker customers and bilk them for all they are worth.
The local honest guy is btw a rock and hard place as RE taxes are too high so the landlords set the lease/rent too high. He now needs expensive fancy equipment to fix modern cars which he "buys" or leases with expensive financing. Gets to the point where the overhead to just turn on the lights and do business is soo high its a struggle all the time. Wealthy customers with no regard for how hard he works for his $$$ and with money to burn and it is easy to see how they turn to the dark side.

I would love to own a Garage.

They only way I could see it work would be to get a 5 bay shop plus a alignment bay. Then gather together 5 local wrenches and work together as a coop sharing the base expenses and sharing the expendables based on volume. As I am in the accounting software biz this would be easy for me and would relieve all the wrenches of all that paperwork. One set of bills for 5 guys. Individualized Invoices for each guy.

Wish I had the $250,000 it would probably take to get started. Maybe I can get a Government Grant, LOL.
Pete
 
I was wondering what 'the rest of the story' was. Your last post confirmed it... he brought his parts to the shop and expected them installed thus depriving the shop the chance to make any money on those parts... so he got quoted a labor rate commensurate with the shop making money... or he could go elsewhere.

I also get a chuckle out of some of the other posts remarking about the stealerships charging too much... then on the other hand complaning about the cost of running a private shop... Mabey when someone gets half a mil... or 5 mil tied up in overhead they understand why things cost so much.
It's not all that different than the people that run around here selling hay for a buck a bale off the field, then can't pay their fricken bills so they go work another job to pay for their farming habit, finance their equipment, etc... and still don't pay their bills. Meanwhile anyone who tries to work in a sustainable manner and charges a legitimate viable rate for what they do is labeled a theif.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 11:21:19 08/16/12) I was wondering what 'the rest of the story' was. Your last post confirmed it... he brought his parts to the shop and expected them installed thus depriving the shop the chance to make any money on those parts... so he got quoted a labor rate commensurate with the shop making money... or he could go elsewhere.

I also get a chuckle out of some of the other posts remarking about the stealerships charging too much... then on the other hand complaning about the cost of running a private shop... Mabey when someone gets half a mil... or 5 mil tied up in overhead they understand why things cost so much.
It's not all that different than the people that run around here selling hay for a buck a bale off the field, then can't pay their fricken bills so they go work another job to pay for their farming habit, finance their equipment, etc... and still don't pay their bills. Meanwhile anyone who tries to work in a sustainable manner and charges a legitimate viable rate for what they do is labeled a theif.

Rod
Click to expand...


Charging an extra 20 or so cause the BIL got the part would be understandable......not an extra 130 or so. The math there just isn't working out for me.

Rick
 
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