Farm Equipment Strategy

FarmerZeb · Aug 1, 2012

I am looking at the pro's / cons of going with 1 manufacturer for equipment. Most of my neighbors run pure green. Below are my pro's and cons for going pure JD and pro/cons for having a mixture. Would like to hear any other quantifiable ideas.

I know this could get ugly so lets try to stick to quantifiable stuff.

JD pure

Pro:
Online Parts Catalog and Ordering
One place to go for parts (7 miles from farm)

Con:
higher initial equipment cost (about 7K more for the used equipment I am looking at)
higher repair parts cost (looks like about 15%)

Mixed Fleet Mostly IH/Gleaner/Great Plains

Pro:
lower initial equipment costs
lower repair parts costs
cost per HP on used tractors seems to be much less on IH tractors in central MO area

Con:
no online parts ordering at CIH of NH
limited ability at AGCO dealer
20 miles to the CIH dealer
24 miles to New Holland dealer
50 miels to AGCO (gleaner) dealer
the distance to parts seems to wash out any cost savings

i don't know where this leads to but the lower initial equip cost on used IH/AGCO equip is attractive to a guy just starting out

thanks,

-paul

GordoSD · Aug 1, 2012

How many acres will you have in production. If over 1200 then I would go all green. Once you drop in there and spend 100k they have your number on speed dial. If you are talking 160 acres it's all moot. Buy cheep, repair cheep, make cheep, sell cheep.
You doing hay or row crop farming? Cow/calf?
pasture?

rrlund · Aug 1, 2012

I'm not necessarily one brand,but pretty much one dealer. They handle several lines,give me good service so iI tend to stick with what I can buy and get parts from there.

wisbaker · Aug 1, 2012

Back in the glory days of American farm equipment you would find various makes were strong in regions. I think a lot of that was based on dealer support, the local service had more influence than the equipment. Some of it was crops, didn't hardly see an Oliver in Michigan where I grew up, they seem to have been a lot more popular here in Wisconsin and I don't see as many John Deeres in Wisconsin as I did in lower Michigan. You've listed the pros and cons- you'll have to figure out what works best for you. Also consider that some of the older equipment you might look for a unit that was both popular and had a good reputation so parts are more available from the dealer and in the aftermarket. Examples- as I said I didn't hardly see an Oliver tractor growing up but there were a lot of Oliver plows and although John Deere made good hay balers a lot of my neighbors had New Holland forage equipment (haybines,choppers, balers and rakes) behind their John Deere tractors. That being said I know the massey ferguson #3 hay baler was a heck of a good unit, better than our 24T John Deere but if I needed a baler today and had to choose between a MF#3 and a JD 24T I would be inclined to go to the 24T, better chance of getting support when I need it, although I'd probably need it more. Some of the big Mega-dealers for IH and AGCO have developed a heck of a parts business via freight and you can get next day service about anywhere and 2-3 day service reasonable. With the money you save can you afford extra parts? A more aggressive maintenance schedule? A little bit newer equipment if you GOTG (go other than green)? John Deere has made mistakes too and some of the short liners made better equipment then JD in some areas (forage harvesting, combines, tillage). Do you have any neighbors growing the same crops you are? Do you work together? One of the advantages of us having a 24T JD baler was their was a 1/2 dozen of them in the neighborhood, more knowledge among the neighbors and we shared parts- one year the last baler working 1st cutting had parts from 3 balers on it for that last day's work.

northvale-PA · Aug 1, 2012

I'm small and have a mix, JD tractors & Ferguson, JD balers, NH mowers and rake. Plus I bought a NI disc mower. My strategy is have 2 of the things that break, seriously. 2 big tractors, 2 mowers and 2 balers. Except tractors, the used stuff is cheap enough to buy more than one. I do hay, so most of the time the hay on the ground is almost worth the equipment. And, when the help is here, we run both.

David G · Aug 1, 2012

How big of operation, if small don't sweat it? Each brand has good and bad models of each type of equipment. It is important to have a dealer nearby, but you may not be able to afford service there if small operator.

Leroy · Aug 1, 2012

NO one company ever made a complete good line of machinery, always at least one item they did not have and in what they did it was not always as good as a different maker on that item.

oldtanker · Aug 1, 2012

(quoted from post at 18:53:58 08/01/12) Back in the glory days of American farm equipment you would find various makes were strong in regions. I think a lot of that was based on dealer support, the local service had more influence than the equipment. Some of it was crops, didn't hardly see an Oliver in Michigan where I grew up, they seem to have been a lot more popular here in Wisconsin and I don't see as many John Deeres in Wisconsin as I did in lower Michigan. You've listed the pros and cons- you'll have to figure out what works best for you. Also consider that some of the older equipment you might look for a unit that was both popular and had a good reputation so parts are more available from the dealer and in the aftermarket. Examples- as I said I didn't hardly see an Oliver tractor growing up but there were a lot of Oliver plows and although John Deere made good hay balers a lot of my neighbors had New Holland forage equipment (haybines,choppers, balers and rakes) behind their John Deere tractors. That being said I know the massey ferguson #3 hay baler was a heck of a good unit, better than our 24T John Deere but if I needed a baler today and had to choose between a MF#3 and a JD 24T I would be inclined to go to the 24T, better chance of getting support when I need it, although I'd probably need it more. Some of the big Mega-dealers for IH and AGCO have developed a heck of a parts business via freight and you can get next day service about anywhere and 2-3 day service reasonable. With the money you save can you afford extra parts? A more aggressive maintenance schedule? A little bit newer equipment if you GOTG (go other than green)? John Deere has made mistakes too and some of the short liners made better equipment then JD in some areas (forage harvesting, combines, tillage). Do you have any neighbors growing the same crops you are? Do you work together? One of the advantages of us having a 24T JD baler was their was a 1/2 dozen of them in the neighborhood, more knowledge among the neighbors and we shared parts- one year the last baler working 1st cutting had parts from 3 balers on it for that last day's work.

You hit the nail on the head with a little twist. Good dealer support made or broke a brand in different areas except when in small farm areas. Then price point was the clincher.

When I was 17 we moved onto a farm in MN from the burbs in NJ in 72. The area was mostely IH by about 60% followed by AC around 15% and JD around 10% with the others picking up the rest. Great IH support, good AC support and fair JD support. In 78 after returing from a tour of duty in Germany I could not believe the number of guys with JD. New dealer in town who had great service and the samller IH dealers had been closed so now IH was 25 miles away. About 20% loss of market share by IH. Then when stationed inother areas of the US I learned about the smaller guys who still wanted new but were unable or unwilling to pay for some brands or those brands didn't really cater to the small guys.

As others have stated....you have to do whats best for you.....don't try wagging the dog by keeping up with what others have.

Rick

Clodbuster · Aug 1, 2012

It's pretty sad when I can get better sales service from a stranger 150 miles away than at my local dealer 10 miles away.

If you are not a big roller BTO on the special list my locals will not even bother to quote you a price. The last few years have given them so much easy money making big sales that they don't seem to bother with the little guys.

jackinok · Aug 2, 2012

well ,these guy pretty much covered what i was going to say.ive always advocated picking and sticking with a good dealer who will stand behind you. Could make or break you if your down and have to get something done.But most of those are gone it seems.We had two good dealers here for years. one case, the other jd, both would go out of their way to get you out of a bind,work with you on any problem,and if push come to shove would loan you a piece of equipment.They both understood that was what kept them going year after year. Both are sadly gone now,new guys are more interested in selling lawnmowers to folks in town,or cater to the small horse raisers and things.dont keep parts for equipment over 4-5 years old and wont even try to find them.they are simply there to sell tractors and equipment. its kind of sad really.

Dean Olson · Aug 2, 2012

Conserve your cash. Go best quality at the lowest cost.

Your thoughts of duplicating key equipment is a good one but maintaining double the equipment get's expensive.

Get your own parts and repair manuals and do the dealers work for him, seems you have to anyway. That way you can call and order parts and have them shipped direct to you with no trip to the dealer. This also gives you the option of dealing with a dealer anywhere in the world.

Get good at preventative maintenance and order extra wear parts,pins etc. Find a dealership that will talk to you and give you list of the most common wear/breakage parts.

This is the information age. You don't necessarily need a dealership within driving distance.

RodinNS · Aug 2, 2012

Reality check... while JD has online ordering... their stock information and pricing is often not correct.
I most often look up my part numbers for all makes online (JD, NH, Case) and whomever else I can find. Then I call the respective dealer and speak to the parts person and give them the numbers. They generally verify, inform me of number change-ups, etc. tell me where stock is and how long to get. Then they order and I know it's done.

As far as parts cost on Deere stuff... I really don't find them any better or any worse than all of the others. I think in terms of jaw droppers... NH seems to have some of the most oddball crazy pricing on some items. I mean.... things that take the partsman's breath away on the phone. Deere will have stuff that's high but it's not usually out of this world high.

As far as used equipment... I've accumulated a bunch of green stuff. The reasons I've got it are simply that it was either cheap or available at the time I needed it, not because I though any of it had more intrinsic value that other makes. There's deals to be had on anything and everything if you know where to look and aren't in a hurry. Some of my best buys have been from the junk row at the auction.

...and as far as distance to dealers.... I'm over 200 miles from a Deere dealer and probably 400 from the NH dealer I use the most although there are closer ones.

If be looking for the equipment I needed to do the job at the best price I could buy it for given it's condition without much concern for what color it was... excepting the fact that some stuff of particular colors is just junk for it's intended purpose...

Rod

Ken Macfarlane · Aug 2, 2012

We have a good local agco dealer, but he gets what I need for at least 10 brands (not agco stuff). I only go elsewhere for my Kubota parts and Pottinger mower parts. To be fair the closest Deere dealer does the same thing for their customers.

Fern(Mi) · Aug 2, 2012

Totally impartial nothen but the best in manufactured equipment.
We use 5 Oliver 1850 tractors.
We use two hydra swing Hestton mowers.
We use a 6055F & a 445-silage balers.
And from the 1950's a late AC#7 PTO powered 2sp hay rake/tedder.
Over nite tractor parts from Ohio.
Standard every day ag parts from anywhere for Vermeer's.
Heston (usually minor)parts from both Ohio & TSC.
Have donner rake for primary AC#7 hay rake.
Life's kept simple in Shorthorn country.
Uncomplicated KISS machinery method used here.
Fernan

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NEBeef · Aug 2, 2012

Why is JD online ordering any different from online ordering through some place like Messicks?

I use Messicks a lot, go online and find the parts, order them they show up at my door. They even got a nice iPhone app with all the parts diagrams for NH, Case, Ford... real handy.

I've never used JD online ordering so... what am I missing?

RodinNS · Aug 2, 2012

It's probably not much different in practice... Personally I'd not order online from Messicks either. If I was going to order from them I'd call and place the order.
Regardless of who's running the stockroom there are ALWAYS things listed in inventory that ARE NOT on the shelf, have been set aside for someone but the invoice is not yet printed, etc. When I'm dealing with parts I need now I want somebody's hand on it confirming that it's there and I'm getting it...

Rod

NEBeef · Aug 2, 2012

I don't order stuff online that I *have* to have ASAP unless I have no choice - I'll exhaust the local sources first. But for parts that aren't that time critical I'll order them online and if they take an extra day or two before they show up at my door, I'm fine with that.

BTW, Messick's has been very good about contacting me directly about problems with orders: old parts that were no longer available, incorrect pricing, etc.

RodinNS · Aug 2, 2012

Everything I get here is done over the phone and delivered by couriour. I have no local dealer other than an orange lawnmower shop. Auto stuff I can get in town but anything ag related and even most industrial type stuff... bearings/belts all comes on the truck from away. The day the mines and steel plant closed here was the day the local industrial suppliers died.

Rod

NEBeef · Aug 2, 2012

Dealers are few and far between here too, so the UPS guy is at my place enough that he knows the dog's names. The one ag dealer I use most is about 25 minutes away. They got a pretty good stock of parts, but if they have to order anything for me they charge me for the shipping. So if I'm going to pay for the shipping, I'll have it shipped to my place, not theirs 25 minutes away...

Pair-a-dice farm · Aug 2, 2012

I'm not a JD guy but in my area the do have the best dealer support. I've got NH, Kubota and IH tractors. Terex backhoe, Vermeer baler and just about every brand of various pieces of equipment. While dealing with just one dealer might have it's advantages, having name recognition across all brands also is advantageous.

FarmerZeb · Aug 2, 2012

thank you all for the comments

for everyone that asked about the online parts things here is the reasoning behind my first post

local JD dealer as a pretty accurate inventory on JDParts that i can order from on line during the week an pay online with a credit card and pick them up friday after work with no shipping charges.

The CIH and NH dealers I can only look at the parts book online but not place an order. Not a huge deal but I don't finish up at work until 800pm most days.

right now i think i'll keep a mixed fleet until i get more acres then i might re look it.

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