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O/T Colt .45 Auto..............

Goose

Goose

Well-known Member
I see the Marine Corps just placed an order for $22.5 million worth of Colt 1911 .45 pistols. In apparent anticipation of desert warfare, the new ones will be sand colored, not the traditional Parkerized finish.

That design is incredible. It's 101 years old and there have been virtually no improvements on the design. When Springfield re-issued the 1911A mil-spec a few years ago, I just had to buy one 'cause it was identical to the one I carried in the Corps. Only difference in the re-issue is it has a disabling feature. If you insert a special key into a 1/8" orifice on the back of the grip and turn it a quarter turn, it locks the hammer in the "down" position. Which means you also can't rack the slide.

In 1985, the Corps went from the .45 to the NATO 9mm pistol. The .45 still remained the handgun of choice among Marines. Feedback I got from Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan was, if you shoot someone with the 9mm, all you do is pi$$ them off. If you nail them with the good old .45, they're down.

I congratulate the Corps on ignoring various beauracracies and going with what works.
 
I know that when the Army issued the M9 there were a lot of people who were dissapointed. Happened to me twice. I was first issued the M9 in 88. Then several years later (92) while on my last tour of Germany and carrying the 1911 again was in the last active unit to be issued the M9. Really sad part was that due to the draw downs going on they had released new 1911's to be issued to us. We had them long enough for 1 major field exercise and one qualification.

Rick
 
Hello Goose,
I lked the 1911A in the srvice as well.Shoot someone in the foot amd his head will fall off!
Hard hittnig-Impact to put many things down on the first shot!
Guido.
 
I have always loved the M1911. The stopping power and relativity slow muzzle velocity of the .45 cal round is so much better than than the 9mm. On the range once, just messing around with a few hundred extra rounds, I was able to cut down a target stand with less than a full magazine. I also own a Philippine version of the M1911A1 and love it. Most accurate and easiest weapon to maintain.

Leonard
 
You need to check with another dealer. I am seeing that gun on the tables at the gun shows nowadays.
 
Several years ago, I had to put down a couple of stray dogs in a hurry 'cause they were chasing our renter's kids. I grabbed the first thing handy in my shop, a 9mm automatic. It dang near didn't do the job. On each dog, it took several vital organ shots to slow them down enough to finish them with a direct head shot.

Since we now have mountain lions in the area, I took to carrying that same 9mm whenever I went into the timber. After the episode with the dogs, I changed to carrying my Ruger SA .44 mag. I'm not sure a 9mm would stop a mountain lion.

BTW, our neighbor gal a mile north saw a lion trying to take down a calf the other evening. The cow appeared and spooked the lion.
 
The old 1911 Colt 45 is a good close quarters hand gun but out past 50 or so yards you have to unload them to hit much of any thing unless they have improved a lot since I was in the navy. That floating barrel they have causes them to be a 25 or so yard gun as per my Navy training and that is what was hammered into use in the navy
 
Friend has one, some work done on it, trigger and a barrel if I recall nice shooter, I got good groups with it last time I shot it, its always been a reliable sidearm design, definitely worth owning one.
 
Old actually they are pretty accurate with a good barrel bushing and slide. The Army taught us 50 yds with the 1911, one shot per and 50 yds, with the M9 but were taught to double tap 50 yds. Saw a huge difference in marksmanship scores when we were issued new 1911's as opposed to the old ones we had. The M9 enjoyed improved scores too when relacing near worn out 1911's.

Rick
 
When (and where) were you in the Corps, Goose?

When I was in the USMC - in 1984, my Helicopter Squadron was the "Guniea Pig" for the Air Wing. We got most things first, and tested them out. Our guys had been hollering for new sidearms for a few years, so the Brass finally relented. We got new ones alright, nice shiny new Baretta 9MM....
it was SUPPOSED to be 6 MONTH test. After 6 WEEKS, we all wanted our real weapons back. Unfortunately, the old ones (some of which, I SWEAR, were MADE in 1911....LOL) were GONE. We ended up getting NEW Colt .45's.

A 9mm LOOKS nice, but is pretty much worthless in a pinch. A 9mm is High velocity, LOW impact, a .45 is low velocity, HIGH impact.

Sure, a 9mm has a bit longer reach, but it won't do you any good, if it doesn't take care of your target. You can shoot a guy 7-8 times with a 9mm, and he doesn't know he's dead, with a .45, you hit him in his HAND, and he's going down.

I carry a 1911 .45 most times, and a little 25 Auto for grins. My wife has a small .45 auto with her, and has her .44 Mag handy at home.
 
Kinda funny everyone talking about range but most combat not in the city makes the pistol a paper weight. My son went though infantry school a couple of years ago and was taught that if issued both the M4 and a pistol the only thing the pistol is good for in close quarters self defense if your M4 malfunctions or is dropped.....good just long enough to put your primary weapon back in play. He was also taught that while you can use a pistol to clear a building you loose a lot of fire power that the M4 provides. Was told that unless it's a hostage rescue yer better off with the M4.

Rick
 
I was active from '53 to '63. I was in aviation, jet fighters mostly.

I was deployed to the Mideast aboard an aircraft carrier, then to a Nationalist Chinese Air Force Base on Taiwan--within a year, at one time.

It would probably be easier to say where I wasn't than where I was.
 
I was in the Air Force when they switched to the Beratta M-9. I think that was a mistake, not that they were worse than the K frame S&W .38's being replaced but I didn't have faith that by firing 50 rounds every other year our airmen would be able to perform the sequence of install clip, chamber round, TAKE SAFETY OFF, and fire pistol when needed. Rumor I heard was during Korea we had an Air Base overrun, we found Air Force members that were stabbed or bayoneted with their .45s in their hand. Seems some of the Airmen in the clinch couldn't get a round chambered the safety off and the hammer cocked before they were stabbed. I was told that's why we carried the .38 revolvers. My personal gun is a S&W N frame revolver in .45LC, it used to pi55 of the command post OIC when on pistol cleaning day I'd dump out those .38 rounds and say "oh look baby bullets". 1/2 way through my assignment in Greece the newbies were coming in without .38 qualification- seems there weren't guns & ammo stateside to qualify folks with, so we got to keep a GAU-5 (M-16 with a shorter barrel and collapsible stock) in the command post. That made command post scheduling more interesting, had to insure at least one controller was .38 qualified and at least one with M-16. Oh and we only had two controllers on at a time so some folks didn't get to work together.
 

wisbaker...I know from experience what a pain that can be. When we were issued the M1 tank they took away the M3 .45 sub machine gun and each crew was issued 1 M16. That ment for a crew to be considered combat ready one man had to be qualified on it. This caused problems every time a guy was transfered, got out was in the hospital or was booted out.

Shortly after I became a Platoon SGT I was task to run a M16 range for the scouts with my soldiers supporting the range, myself as range OIC. I ran my entire platoon through the range. I was there another 12 months before I retired and never had a crew that didn't have a least one guy with current quals.


Rick
I never heard that about the AF and why they liked the revolver....I'd be really interested to know the whole story behind that....guess I will have to see if I can find anything about that.
 
$22.5 million for 4000 pistols works out to $5625 per gun. So much for military belt tightening.

4000 pistols isn't going to go very far spread across 200 thousand active duty Marines. These are just to replace the worn-out 45s used by various special operation units, such as Force Recon. Rank and file jarheads will continue to be issued M9s.

When the US military switched from the M1911A1 to the M9, it was done for good reasons: The 45s in service were pretty much worn out and needed to be replaced. Ammo could be standardized with NATO. The 45 is a big gun, not real practical for use by aircrews and support personnel who are carrying it strictly for personal defense. However, the 45 stayed in service with a lot of special ops units, who recognized the need for a more powerful cartridge than 9mm.

There's no doubt the M1911A1 is one of the best firearms designs of all time. But ninety years later, isn't it time to move on?
USMC Times article on M1911A1 purchase
 
Ah but note you said good barrel bushing and slide. Since when do you see that in a military issue weapon?? All the 45s I ever shot when I was in you where lucky if you could hit an elephant at 50 yards they where so poorly kept up and where used an abused
 
Yes the 45 can be made to be a good gun but they are pretty much out of the box a 25 yard gun. Now yes if you tighten them up yes then they can be a good bit better but I'll take my 44mag over a 45 acp any day of the week and shoot far better then the 45 can. But revolvers are known to be more accurate then a semi auto is
 
I know the feeling! I was in from 1980 to 1988. Helicopter Structures Mechanic. Even though I was mostly a CH-53 guy, I did have a little experience on F-18's, C-130's, F-4 Phantoms, and even one of the last DC-3's the Corps had.
 
The .45 was VERY practical for use by aircrew! The PILOTS had worthless .38 revolvers, while we (Aircrew) had nice .45's. They were a BIT worn, but better than a 9mm.
 
When I was sent to Nam my Dad bought me a set of Colt 1911 45s. They where match grade then. I think that they where hand built with tighter tolerances mainly in the barrels and support bushings. I still have them both with the wood display case they came in. I carried them all through my Military service including 20 years in the National Guard. I have kept a shooting log on them both. The one shoots just a little better than the other. So I used it the most. Just this last year I passed 18,000 rounds through it. The other one is over 10,000 rounds. They have been great in all of that time. They saved my butt several times in combat.

I had a fight in the National Guards to be able to keep them as my side arms. The Guard wanted to force me to use the 9MM junk that they issued. I fought the bean counters. Told my commanding officer if they wanted me to stay and not retire than I was carrying the Colt 45s. I guess a letter from a top commander in the Pentagon helped stop that foolishness. He was a new officer the last tour I did in Vietnam. My unit help save his base from being over ran one night. He remembered that. I still have a copy of the written butt chewing he gave the Guard bean counter over the issue.

Three years ago I was able to go on a tour at the plant in West Hartford. I also hand delivered my pistols to be reconditioned at the plant. They reworked them in three days. My wife and I toured the plant. Then came back an picked my pistols back up. I was able to fire them on Colt's shooting range. They did a fine job of making them fire like new again.

As for the accuracy of them. I am able to hold ten inch group at 50 yards. At 75 yards I can hold a chest size pattern. I know that is largely these guns shooting better. I have used the Military issued ones and you have trouble holding very good groupings past 40-50 yards.
 
Actually, that might not be the cost of each weapon. We don't know the total amount of handguns purchased, and you also need to include spares, and spare parts......
 
Yes, I would think so for longer ranges, I enjoy tinking an old 20 lb propane tank 200 yds across a field, with the .22 revolver, using long rifle ammo.
You kinda have to lob them in a bit, but its a lot of cheap fun, and being on a shale hill, you don't need a spotter, makes dust, so you can dial right in.

I've always wanted to check out a Korth revolver, probably way out of the budget, but those sure seem like high quality, tight tolerances and finishes, not to mention accuracy.
Korth
 


From the artical

Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., will supply as many as 12,000 of the 200,000 U.S. Marines with semi-automatic, tan-colored M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols, and they will include spare parts and logistical support

At 1875 per with spares and logistical support that isn't bad considering that a plain jane one suggested retail is about 940 dollars. This one have batter sights, a rail system and a custom finish. The initial order is for just over 4,000 guns and may go as high as 12,000....

From Colt's site.

WEST HARTFORD, Conn., July 20, 2012 — Colt Defense LLC has been awarded an Indefinite-Delivery/Indefinite-Quantity contract by the U.S. Marine Corps for up to 12,000 M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols (CQBP), plus spares and logistical support. The new CQBP is a direct descendant of the iconic Colt M1911 adopted by the U.S. military in 1911 and carried as the primary sidearm through all the major conflicts of the 20th century.

The CQBP contract is for a five-year period and has a potential value of up to $22.5 million. The CQBP expands on a long history of MARCORSYSCOM re-building original Government-issue 1911s, primarily for use by Force Recon and MARSOC units.

“This is a truly gratifying contract award,” said Gerry Dinkel, President and CEO of Colt Defense. “To have the 1911 selected again for U.S. Forces 101 years after its initial introduction is just an incredible testament to the timeless design and effectiveness of the Colt 1911. Colt Defense looks forward to another great partnership with the Marine Corps as we renew industry production of the military 1911.”

The initial Delivery Order on the contract is for 4036 CQBP, plus spares. Deliveries will begin later this year.


Note up to 22.5.......

Besides whats worse? The Navy an it's 29 buck a gallon "green" fuel and the AF 67 buck a gallon "green" jet fuel or the Marine's 1875 dollar pistol?

Rick
 
Mark you may also want to note that myself and many others on here are vets. We know first hand of government and military waste.....it's never far from my mind and bothers me greatly when it puts the life of a single service member at risk. They deserve the best equipment in the world, not the stuff built by the lowest bidder. Same goes for our police and fire fighters.

Rick
 
The Marine Corps own press release about this says..."it requires more maintenance and care than many modern semi-automatic pistols" ..." tells me everything I need to know about picking a pistol I may have to bet my life on. I hope these new ones are more reliable than my Series 80, it has about 200 rounds through it, and probably 180 jams (yep tried different mags and every kinda ammo I could find). However it is the best looking pistol I have.
 
Hi Rick, I think the AF air crews use of revolvers started in WW2 and was due to a shortage of 1911's. The Navy also issued revolvers to aircrews. In WW1 both Colt and S&W built Model 1917 revolvers, 45 ACP and used half moon clips. Those were issued due to shortages of 1911's. When I was in the Army in the 1980's the MP's often had 38 revolvers, S&W model 10, 15's and a few Rugers.
 
I did some consulting for Colt many years ago - on their serial number tracking database.

I was SHOCKED by how far behind the times they were - anybody remember DOS and ibm xt's? It was like walking into a museum.

Granted, it was many years ago - but still way, WAY, WAY beyond the DOS and xt days.

That's what I think of every time I think of Colt.

They do make a good gun though.

I absolutely love my beretta - it's a fantastic gun in every way. But yeah - if my life were on the line, I think I'd have to go with the 45.
 
(quoted from post at 12:17:07 07/29/12) Hi Rick, I think the AF air crews use of revolvers started in WW2 and was due to a shortage of 1911's. The Navy also issued revolvers to aircrews. In WW1 both Colt and S&W built Model 1917 revolvers, 45 ACP and used half moon clips. Those were issued due to shortages of 1911's. When I was in the Army in the 1980's the MP's often had 38 revolvers, S&W model 10, 15's and a few Rugers.
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Scott, while I was active, 74-96 the MP's I saw/knew carried the 1911 and after the change over, the M9 except a few female MP's who did carry a revolver when the 1911 was still being used. Don't know which makes and models of the revolver were issued. We augmented the MP patrols at Baumholder Germany in the mid 80's when we were having trouble with Libya and the terror threat was high. The guys were still carrying the 1911 at that time. Of the several female MP's there one carried the 1911 and the others revolvers. They assigned NCO's to augment the MP's because they were not sure if the enlisted guys would really back up an MP against friends. With the duty hours/cycles that the MP's pulled it wasn't hard to understand why they were so short handed. Pulled duty with a few that were really impressive.

Rick
 
Scott there is something wrong with your gun. It should not jam very often. I would bet that mine have not jammed 3-4 times in all of the time I have had them. Now when I was in combat they got cleaned almost daily.

So take it to a good gun smith. If you can't afford that then take it to military vet that served before 1980. They should know how to disassemble it and look into what is not working. All of us that had small arms training had classes on the care and maintenance on a Colt 45. In Ranger training you had to be able to take it apart and put it back together blind folded in less than five minutes or you failed the class.
 
Love em. First introduction to them was back in 1967 when I shot on USN/USMC pistol team. Bullseye course. Taming that .45 in rapid fire was a whole new skill set. I was able to buy the set I used later on So I got the mid seventies Gold Cup, a .38 Super I used for "centerfire" and the Ace. They all have that Royal Blue finish and shoot as well as they look. The USMC amorers at Pendleton accurized them for us.
And they cost me a fortune $450 total.
But I did carry a Python with a pocket full of .357 ammo in my survival vest.
Here's a 2012 Govt .38 and the 70 series Gold CUp NM.
a77671.jpg

a77674.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 11:57:20 07/29/12) The Marine Corps own press release about this says..."it requires more maintenance and care than many modern semi-automatic pistols" ..." tells me everything I need to know about picking a pistol I may have to bet my life on. I hope these new ones are more reliable than my Series 80, it has about 200 rounds through it, and probably 180 jams (yep tried different mags and every kinda ammo I could find). However it is the best looking pistol I have.
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Scott my son just about lives on 1911 forums. When he returns from his 2 week AT with the MN Guard I'll ask him about the 80 series (he starts gun smith school here the end of AUG)......maybe he can direct you to a site that maybe can tell you what the problem and any fixes. I know he has told me several times that some of the 80's hd problems.

I know I've got a couple of thousand rounds through a Rock Island 1911 (70) and have had zero problems.

Rick
 

Those complaining about the loose fit of the old 1911s are missing the point, they were made loose so they would function under muddy or sandy conditions in the field. One made to be close fitting will be more accurate, but are more likely to get jammed by dirt.

Re relative size of the 1911 and the Beretta I have fired a 1911 a lot and have handled a Beretta. They are about the same size. The 1911 is a little thinner than the Beretta due the the 1911 having a single stack magazine and the Beretta having a double stack magazine to hold the 14 or 15 rounds that it carrys.

KEH
 
JD, if I may, part of my resume. Army National Guard 1979-1982, US Army Germany 1982-1985. I also did ROTC including summer camp at Ft Lewis. Did not qualify for a comission do to a back opperation, did it for fun. Sheriff Dept 1989-2001-including the SWAT team and Coroners office. That county had one city that almost always qualified as one of the 10 most violent in the country.I also shot in High Power competations then. After that it was Firefighter/Paramedic untill I retired Feb of this year. Anyway I know my way around firearms, and investigated a lot of shootinga. I think my Colt has several problems, rough feed ramp and a weak spring to start with. I was messing with it when Glocks came into my life, the Colt went to the back of the safe and I have mostly forgot about it. Maby I will send it to Taurus, they have more experience fixing guns than anyone.
 
MN National Guard Summer Camp, That is Camp Riply at Little Falls isn't it. I had a blast there. When I was is ROTC (late 1980's)we went there. Myself and some other guy that was AF Security in a prior life, were each given a M113 packed full of 1st and 2nd year cadets.Told to take them for a ride. That guy was flat out crazey. We chased each other up and down hills, through creeks. About 2 hours, flat out, knocking down trees, sliding backward down muddy inclines. Treated those tracks in a way I never would have dared in the Army. Wish I could have been there with your son, as my oppertunities to drive armoured vehicals, shoot cannons or M2s is quite limited. I know there is something wrong with my Colt, and I know most (almost all) 1911's run fine. One day I might get excited about it again and get it fixed. The fact is I have to many guns. Most likely one day I will end up giving it to some kid like your son. In the military, likes guns, will value it ect.
 
I remember something called CP. Courtsey Patrol, a trooper and a NCO that went around to the local hangouts and offered (?) as a courtsey (?) a ride back to base for any drunk GI.
 
Scott, LOL yea he's at Ripley AKA Skeeter heaven! I really do miss my tanks sometimes. They were a blast (pun intended).....did ya know they upgraded the power trains in the 113's to keep up with the M1? Bradly is fun to shoot too.

Didn't know yer 45 is a Tarsus. From what I've read they had some problems with the early models.

You mentioned the M2. I loved em! From day 1 in the Army we were told that it was illegal to shoot at troops with one. We never shot troop targets with the 50 when shooting tank gunneries. Then while a young NCO I was scheduled to give a class on "engaging targets with the Cal .50". As I was preparing for the class I was surprised to find "lead factor for paratroops still descending with the Cal 50 was 1 and 1/2 target forms below the target for every 500 meters"! So I looked up the regs on the 50. Nope not illegal. Was and is illegal to fire on crew members bailing out of a disabled aircraft unless they are shooting at you with any weapon. So I went and tried to find out where the 50 thing came from. Best guess was an order, followed by word of mouth threats, out of Patton's HQ when his army was running low on 50 ammo and he wanted it conserved to use for close in anti air. I thought it amazing that something like that could last 30 or more years. Still don't know if it's a fact but a few years later the Army did put some info out to that effect when we were almost certain that the Soviets were going to come through the Fulda Gap.

Pulled CP courtesy patrol. When I was in Germany it was the detail BN task and had an NCOIC, SFC and roving patrols of a SSG, SGT or CPL and a radio operator with a PR77 radio. Primary job was to get guys out of the bars when they had too much and or were starting to get belligerent. When there were no strings attached a guys buddy might stop the CP and ask em to get his friend out of there cause he didn't want ole buddy in trouble. That stopped when they made guys go to counseling if they got picked up by the CP. But by 86 the Army was really starting to crack down on the drinking. We had a Capt make Maj. He got a DUI after his promotion party on a Sat nite. Monday morning the CG was at our BN HQ demanding his resignation. In 86 or 87 they came up with a new policy that "any NCO or officer involved in any alcohol or drug related incident would be processed for a discharge".

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 17:24:08 07/29/12) So this is a tractor board and a fellow makes a post about a hand gun and it gets more replys than Most tractor posts.
I love it.
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LOL ain't it grand!

Rick
 
My 45 is a Colt. I just made a crack about Taurus because about 2/3 of what they sell has to go back. It is funny how when you are in the army one hears so many wrong things. Never heard the ban on 50s shooting troopers. Just what was a 50 for ? Say you were on the M2 and the enemy was closing and the M3 and 1911 were empty. Were you just suppose to give the enemy the gun when he got there. I always understood it that if the enemy was in a position to resist he was an active combatant and legel target. What if they were airborne Troops ? Let them ground, link up, organize and deploy so the fight is more fair. Not if I am on that 50.
 
(quoted from post at 04:24:08 07/30/12) So this is a tractor board and a fellow makes a post about a hand gun and it gets more replys than Most tractor posts.
I love it.
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I can't talk the talk but but can walk the walk :D I have a LLAMA 45 and its accurate.. 9MM that's why you get one that holds 15 rounds put enuff holes in'em and that should take them down.. I have a bud that's a cop,,, he had to put a guy down that had a gun pointed at'em,,, it took 8 rounds from a 45 to lay him to rest... His take is the chit some folks are on you never know what will take them out it was like that guy was superman...

http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=...ign=20120729-Chronicle-Vol1Iss6+Campaign-Rev1

Some guns I just can not be accurate with no matter who made them... That's why I take the one I am the most comfortable with...
 
Scott, some clown with some heavy lead on his collar made the decision that we would train and fight harder if we thought that the Soviet equipment was better than ours. We were told that we could not take out Soviet tanks over 2000 meters, they had a 10 to 1 advantage in tanks (part way true them against us.....but against NATO about even) and a bunch of other crap. When the first gulf war broke out I'd already figured we were being lied to just because all the air forces flying against our aircraft in the Med and other places were loosing big time. I fugued that if the planes were not that great nothing else was. There were 3000 meter one shot kills against Soviet made tanks plus one that a M2 Bradly took out with a 25 MM cannon at very close range. I can't begin to tell you how many "Soviet Threat" classes I had to sit through.


Rick
 
Yup, sat through the same assessments on the Soviets.. The prevailing thought was if they wanted to take out my platoon, they would send a company, if they still can't take you out they would send a battalion, etc.

I had an opportunity to actually sit in a T-62 from the Golan Heights, with my platoon sgt. Aside from having a low profile, it had a shot trap between the turret and the hull and the auto loader, required the gun tube to be raised when it was loaded.

The M60-A1 was more than a match for Soviet armor at the time. Combat carry was 1,200 meter, so two rounds down range in 7 seconds was not a problem. Knocking one of those puppies out at 2,000 meters with HEAT or Sabot ammo was not a problem.
 
(quoted from post at 22:48:57 07/29/12) Yup, sat through the same assessments on the Soviets.. The prevailing thought was if they wanted to take out my platoon, they would send a company, if they still can't take you out they would send a battalion, etc.

I had an opportunity to actually sit in a T-62 from the Golan Heights, with my platoon sgt. Aside from having a low profile, it had a shot trap between the turret and the hull and the auto loader, required the gun tube to be raised when it was loaded.

The M60-A1 was more than a match for Soviet armor at the time. Combat carry was 1,200 meter, so two rounds down range in 7 seconds was not a problem. Knocking one of those puppies out at 2,000 meters with HEAT or Sabot ammo was not a problem.
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Marc, yea by the early 80's most of us NCO's knew that the brass was telling us fairy tales.

The standard for battle carry on the M1 was 2 aimed rounds at less than 6 seconds as to be considered well trained. 6 seconds was all they gave a loader max. And couldn't lap load because of the combustable case ammo. The Soviets performance in Astan gave us a lot of insight to just how well the Soviet military performed. Not really impressive considering they were no holds barred using everything short of nukes and had no worries about civilian casualities.

Rick
 
Rick, You wouldn't believe the number of times some NCO went to "Soviet Threat" and then made us sit through a class on what he heard <:). At least the NCO's got those fancy coloring book with pictures of jets, tanks,rockets,trucks,maps and colorful graphs depecting troop strength ect. I heard those "Threat" classes continued after the wall fell. Some Soviet expert didn't want to give up his job! One time a full bird nut job told us we were so weak that hordes of commies from Nicaragua could march thru Texas and we coudn't stop them, that was why we needed to keep 400,000 US troops in Europe. It made so sence then either.
 
(quoted from post at 15:07:25 07/30/12) Rick, You wouldn't believe the number of times some NCO went to "Soviet Threat" and then made us sit through a class on what he heard &lt;:). At least the NCO's got those fancy coloring book with pictures of jets, tanks,rockets,trucks,maps and colorful graphs depecting troop strength ect. I heard those "Threat" classes continued after the wall fell. Some Soviet expert didn't want to give up his job! One time a full bird nut job told us we were so weak that hordes of commies from Nicaragua could march thru Texas and we coudn't stop them, that was why we needed to keep 400,000 US troops in Europe. It made so sence then either.
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Scott, nope I didn't have any Soviet threat classes after the wall came down. We started training very shorthly afterward for "low intensity conflicts" then some idiot invaded Kuait. Followed that up with the "peace dividen" draw downs.....cause we can now fight a 2 fronted war with a much smaller military.....ask the girls and guys with the Guard how well that worked out....never heard about the commie hord in Nicaragua.....when are they coming???? Did hear that the NK's were going to do a sea based invasion of the west coast. Did have a general officer tell us during a change of command that the biggest threat we faced in 95 was terrorism at the time. One guy right amid a sea of idiots.....bet he owns a tractor!

Rick
 
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