O/T For what it's worth...........

I'm on U.S. Senator Mike Johanns' email update list. The following arrived today:

Senator Johanns e-Update
June 12, 2012

Today, I introduced an amendment to the farm bill that would ban the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) from using aerial surveillance to inspect or to record images of agricultural operations but would still allow the use of traditional on-site inspections.

The EPA’s recent history of imposing overreaching regulations on our farmers and ranchers has rightfully made many in the agriculture community skeptical of the agency’s actions. I share these concerns, which is why I along with my Nebraska delegation colleagues sent two letters to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson requesting information about the agency’s use of aerial surveillance both in Nebraska and nationwide.



This is a trust issue, and farmers and ranchers don’t trust EPA doing low-altitude surveillance flights over their operations. EPA’s surveillance program only adds to the deficit of trust this closed-door agency has earned of late. It’s past time for Congress to put an end to EPA's use of aerial surveillance.

Don't expect it to go anywhere.

Dean

The nnalert will never allow it but good for him to try. He's a good guy fighting a loosing battle. The hippies will never allow it.

Who appoints these clowns anyway? Stan

That's a good thing, but its not just the EPA. I saw Sen. Rand Paul on the news earlier stating the same thing about law enforcement agencies as well. Last week or so, someone here posted a link to the story that you are talking about, so I did a search as well and found not only it, but others about not just local law enforcement agencies doing it, but how the FAA is making plans for a wide variety of local, state, and federal government agencies using it all over our nation by 2015.

So tonight, as I watched Ron Paul on the news saying that its out of control, they showed not only the big drones that we are aware of in use in war zones, but small, quiet, almost model sized radio controlled helicopters with video cameras flying through neighborhoods, moving up to peoples windows and looking, prowling in. That is a particular problem in my state of Indiana, where about a year ago, three of our five state supreme court said that the Fourth Amendment to our U.S. Constitution is "outdated fodder" and NO law enforcement agency even needs a search warrent to enter ANY residence in Indiana, any day of the week, any time of the day. So now, they would no doubt need a warrant to use stealth drones to be peeping toms either.

My father came to America from communist Poland, and he no doubt is spinning in his grave over what we have allowed to happen to these United States of America.

Mark
Indiana Supreme Court Rules No Right To Resist

The guy gets a big E for effort. He is paid to represent ag interests in NE and that is what he is attempting to do. Jackson will have to respond to his reguest is she or is she not doing aerial surveilance and where did she get money and authorization to do so. That would likely be the end of Jackson's surveilance if that version of a farm bill passes into law with that amendment written in it.

This is a huge constitutional issue. And one I suspect will be the straw that breaks the camel humpers back.

It's a good start.
What I really don't understand is why there is an uproar about this, but cameras at stop lights seem to be a good thing.
Maybe farmers and ranchers are smarter than the average American.

(quoted from post at 03:37:34 06/13/12) It's a good start.
What I really don't understand is why there is an uproar about this, but cameras at stop lights seem to be a good thing.
Maybe farmers and ranchers are smarter than the average American.

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If you're not doin anything wrong...... There's no issue........
I don't know what it's like in the States, but google earth zooms in close enough that you can almost count shingles on a roof, or recognize a vehicle around here.... No one is whining about that.......The cameras are a hassle to folks that speed, run redlights, dump manure in the river/lake/let it soak into the groundwater, grow dope, etc.......

But those same people are putting your family in danger....

Outright doing away with the EPA would be more to my liking.

Help me with the logic. Are you guys really wanting to support some BTO dumping a couple million gallons of cowstuff in the watershed that you drink from? Do you want your grandchildren to be limited to bottled, decontaminated drinking water? Opposition to an over-reaching government agency is one thing, but some regulations are important.

Soon be able to grow merry goanna as a cash crop without aerial surveillance.

We do need some regs. but the EPA has gone completely out of control. Kinda like the old saying gag at gnat and swallow a camel. If EPA isn't got under control we won't have any manufacturing left in this country at all. It will ALL go over seas where the pollution spewing plant put much worse stuff into out world atmosphere.

(quoted from post at 14:43:18 06/13/12) Help me with the logic. Are you guys really wanting to support some BTO dumping a couple million gallons of cowstuff in the watershed that you drink from? Do you want your grandchildren to be limited to bottled, decontaminated drinking water? Opposition to an over-reaching government agency is one thing, but some regulations are important.

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Someday people will be out grazing in a pasture instead of eating off of a plate. This is the direction we are heading. Local gov'ts, state DEQ's/DEM's, and EPA want zero pollution/emissions for every industry, agriculture included. This isn't at all practical or possible, if people like eating, having electricity, driving an automobile, and like having around most of what we use in everyday life. Eventually (sooner rather than later) every individual's activities will be regulated by the EPA and/or local environmental agencies, and when people have to get a permit to buy laundry soap, a quart of paint or toilet bowl cleaner, those that think this spying is a-ok just fine by them will be singing a different tune.

People may have no idea the level of recordkeeping involved with and the rules that stipulate when, where, how, and how much manure can be handled in what manner by who the state deems to be a "BTO" here. If someone makes a "million gallons of cowstuff" disappear in an improper fashion in this state, they're paying someone off, (and someone on the other side would be taking the $$$). More regulation and spy surveilance won't ever stop that. It won't stop or clean up legitimate accidents and problems created by natural disasters, either.

The EPA that the OP mentioned are our federal friends that wanted to regulate dust involved in agricultural activities, and fine those that created said dust (EPA reasoning: cha-ching!).

When these agencies were created, there was a need for them and there is still a need for them today. There's always someone with no morals who will try to get away with anything and someone with some rules backing them up has to stop this. Sadly, today, these agencies true goal is not pollution prevention, it's keeping their regulatory agency relevant and this takes new regulations every year. New reg.'s=more employees=more money needed to pay everyone for this "pollution prevention". They want all of the money they can get from the taxpayer and from permits to keep them going. Reverting to a third world country in the next couple of decades is going to be interesting if these agencies runaway foolishness continues.

What's sadder yet, is that a local BTO (city) can dump "combined sewer overflows" full of human waste into a river, because they get a discharge permit to do so. They've done it for years, but they have a permit, so it's ok. I know people who fish in this river. I wouldn't eat that excrement if you paid me. Those days of dumping poo into the river are coming to an end, though. What isn't coming to an end is the ability of the average homeowner to put levels of fertilizer on their lawns each year that a farmer might not need to plant 25 acres of crops. This leeches into the groundwater, too. Politicians have lawns, and they don't want a sad looking yard, and quantitatively more homeowners than farmers vote in most areas, so, the system works.

Every citizen has every right not to be spied upon by any government or police agency while on their personal private property for a potential crime/regulation that some agency deems someone has the potential to be possibly be commiting/breaking. Unwarranted surveilance of an individual's activities on private property is illegal.

AG

Agreed.

The damage done to the us economy by the EPA and other federal agencies is simply incomprehensible.

Dean

Bingo.

Creation of the EPA was by far the worst thing that President Nixon did while in office.

Dean

(quoted from post at 08:50:35 06/13/12) Bingo.

Creation of the EPA was by far the worst thing that President Nixon did while in office.

Dean

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Yea..... that [email protected] hate breathing clean air and drinking fresh water...
And them birds critters are just plain annoying......

Do some of you folks even think about what you say even a little????

Good luck asking for a little logic. When somenone is on a rant, you just don't interrupt.

Dave....Dave....Dave...

Keep that kind of talk up, and they'll start calling you some sort of commie lieburral [or I guess these days their favorite term for folks who disagree with 'em is "socialist"].....even if you ARE right.

BTDT...

If you think you breathe clean air or drink fresh water because of a government agency there must be something pretty good in that water your drinking. Pick any social justice cause or humanitarian improvement since the dawn of man and you will find that any meaningful action taken was taken by private enterprise in reaction to the demands of the consuming public, period. Hippies waving signs had more to do with corporate environmental policies of the last 40 years than the EPA. Bureacracies are not efficient machines. Why do you think these wind and solar scams are so rampant right now? because a bunch of kool aid drinkers are in charge. In 1789 George Washington took office with a Vice President, Secretaries of State, War, Treasury and an Attorney General, 4 cabinet level offices, it was good enough then it should be good enough now.

Senator's email never mentioned doing away with regulations. It is one thing for google earth to spy on folks with their corporate money. It is quite a different matter for the EPA to spy on folks with taxpayer money that no one authorized them to spend on spying. It is very appropriate for a senator who approves budget money to EPA which pays the administrator's salary to ask what the he!! does she think she is doing. We already have state DEQ agencies that can and do catch those few ag violators when they are reported by making on site field visits.

LAA, baloney.

If it wasn't against the law, private enterprise could give two sh*ts about the concerns of a handful of banner-waving hippies. There are enough ignorant and complacent people in the buying public that it wouldn't hurt their business one bit to flip the hippies the bird and tell them to "eff off."

The hippies complained to the government when the direct approach failed. nnalert decided that the hippies were right. nnalert decided that it was a great opportunity to create thousands of high-paying cushy government jobs for their families and cronies.

Neither side is doing a da*n thing to reduce the reach of the EPA, or get rid of regulations that are ridiculous and/or make no sense. It is only getting WORSE, with the blessing of BOTH sides. nnalert because it's good for the planet, nnalert because it's job security for their cronies.

As irritating as the EPA can be, the EPA has really cleaned up the air in large cities and is now making progress to clean up the rivers and lakes in my area.

If I have to walk through a metal detecor to travel on an airplane I don't see any problem with the police, Homeland Security, or the EPA using people and/or drones to search for illegal activities.

Just like British Petrolium's big oil spill, if someone wants to take a dump in the community pond they should get caught and pay restitution. The general public has little sympathy for that anymore.

Too many people believe rules should apply to everyone else, but not to themselves.

mkirsch -- So among the multitude of other things you know nothing about you can't recognize sarcasm when you read it.

It all sounds good.... But, if Bubba was doin what he was sposed ta be doin, showing respect/consideration for others, not runnin redlights, speeding, driving drunk, etc, and wiping out families.... there wouldn't be a need for laws against it...

Bubba ain't gonna do (or stop doing) anything unless someone tells him he has to.....

I never said corporations would do anything out of the goodness of their hearts, I said for the consuming public, when companies lose market share due to bad PR they pay attention, when the EPA overregulates they move the plants elsewhere.

I had the local weed superentendent google earth my pasture once just to take pics of musk thistle and the go forth and hire his buddys spray plane to spray it and in the picture there is my 4 wheeler and spray tank. You could see the weeds dying and the law states that the owner must make a good try at killing those weeds. I could have taken him to court and won according to my lawer but I just payed the inflated bill and walked away from that drama. I guess my point is that they can't tresspass to look but now they have ways to get around it. They are invading privacy plain and simple. They have a job to do I understand but there are direct ways to do it. Show up for on site inspection. They say they save money this way by flying drones but in all reality they do it to "sneek around" hoping to get somebody.