Diesel F150

Howard H. · Jun 8, 2012

A friend of mine and I were talking the other day and he asked a real good question: Why doesn't Ford offer a diesel F150???

And not to compete with the "big" diesel engine/F250-350 models, either...

Mercedes & other car makers have been putting bulletproof small diesel engines in cars for years...

Why wouldn't a small diesel engine option work great for an F150??

Howard

Nancy Howell · Jun 8, 2012

A guess on my part - there's not enough demand for a diesel F-150 to make it economically feasible.

Another guess - US car companies don't have the range of diesel engine sizes Mercedes or BMW and others have.

Dodge doesn't offer the Cummins diesel in the 1500 model either.

BillyinStoughton · Jun 8, 2012

I work with a gentleman that has a 96' F-150 that he fit with an Isuzu 2.2L diesel from a Thermo King refrigeration unit. Matched to a 5 speed manual it actually isn't the dog that you would anticipate it to be. He's a machinist by trade and the swap look almost OEM. To go along with increased mileage he has logged over 200,000 miles on it...and that engine had 4800 hours on it when it came out of the refrigeration unit! I'll see if he drove it today. If he did I'll snap some pics and post em'.

Russ from MN · Jun 8, 2012

Toyota had a small diesel many years ago, our neighbor lady had one. I drove it once, seemed like a nice idea, but was not very popular. Chevette also had a diesel, but only a few. I think it's because Americans want to go 0-60 in 5 seconds!

Mike (WA) · Jun 8, 2012

Diesel has lost its economic advantage- used to be cheaper than gas, and got better mileage, now its usually more expensive. Still better for pulling, so is the choice of heavy pickup buyers, but there would be little demand for light duty stuff.

dhermesc · Jun 8, 2012

Ford was working on a 4.5L V6 diesel with Navistar for the F150 before they ended that relationship. Immediately afterwards Ford revealed the wer working on their own V6 diesel for the F150 and started a squabble with Navistar about stolen designs. In the end Ford dropped it because the EPA will never allow them to sell it in the US.

Ford has a very nice diesel Fiesta in Europe that gets 60-65 MPG (more than all gas hybreds) - they can't import or build it in the US because of the EPA.

Is there any small diesels in the US except for the VW? Dodge had the Jeep Liberty but the EPA killed that one too.

Phil Scarborough · Jun 8, 2012

As a tourist in the USA and Canada, driving hire cars,I get the feeling that an awful lot of rural gas stations don't have diesel pumps. I filled up in New York state at a gas station with 12 gas pumps, but not 1 diesel pump.Here in England, every filling station has both gas and diesel.

INCase · Jun 8, 2012

Both Dodge and Ford were/are looking/working on Diesels for the 1/2 tons.

They were somewhat serious in 2008/9 before the bottom fell out of the market.

a couple major downsides.
Demand
cost
EPA
no $/gal advantage

LJD · Jun 8, 2012

GM made many 1/2 ton diesel trucks for over 10 years. Not great sellers. I still have over a dozen of them (diesel trucks, Suburbans, vans, and Blazers. Dodge also offered a 1/2 ton truck with a diesel for one year (1978). Also didn't sell.

Jeep offered SUVs and pickups with Perkins diesels in the 60s. Did not sell well.

Ford offered small diesels in Ranger pickups and Broncos. Also did not sell well.

Seems to me, why now - with gas cheaper per gallon then diesel, would a car company want to invest a fortune in a light-duty diesel? Diesel also has around 5% less energy then it used to. Ford did have one on the drawing board with Navistar which led to a law-suit when Ford backed out.

GM has been working a diesel engine that runs on gasoline which might be interesting. That's been in the works since 2008 but since GM went belly-up and became partly owned by several National Governments? Who knows.

Paul from MI · Jun 8, 2012

With the new Eco-Boost twin turbocharged, direct injected gasoline engines they're getting the fuel economy of a diesel without the other issues like cold starting, noise, lack of fuel availability in some areas, etc. At today's prices it may not happen in a 1/2 ton size pickup.

LJD · Jun 8, 2012

A Ford F150 with a Cummins 3.9 turbo is the way to go. Makes a nice drivable rig, even in the hills and can get 25-26 MPG driving 65 MPH with the right overdrive.

I've got an Isuzu 2.2 diesel in a tiny Geo 4WD Tracker SUV and it's just barely adequate. I also have one in an 85 Isuzu 4WD PUP and it's also just barely adequate. I used to have the rare 2.2 turbo diesel in a Isuzu Scout that was a bit better until it blew up.

GM sold S10 pickups and SUVs with the same 2.2 and they were horribly underpowered. Not quite so bad in the Chevy LUVs which were bascially Isuzu PUP trucks.

I'm not saying a 2.2 can't push an F150 down a flat highway. It would be useless however for driving in the hills or trying to tow anything.

The 2.2 Isuzu diesels used in Chevy Chevettes, S10 trucks, S10 Blazers, Imark cars, PUP trucks, etc. were reworked gas Isuzu gas engines so they were slightly different then the reefer Isuzu 2.2 diesels. Not by much though. The industrial reefer 2.2 diesel is 54 max horsepower with 106 lbs. of max torque. Considering people still complain about the low power in GM 6.2 diesels in 1/2 ton trucks - it gives some perspective. The 6.2 has around 140 horse at 3600 RPM and 240 lbs. of max torque.

Isuzu 2.2 (139 c.i.) diesel (used in GMs) - 62 horse at 4200 RPM and 96 lb. ft. torque at 2200 RPM. 2.2. liter 3.4" bore by 3.62" stroke

Isuzu 2.2 model 4LE1, indirect injected, 3.35” (85mm) bore by 3.78” (96mm) stroke, 54 HP intermittent @ 3000 RPM, 106 lb. ft. torque @ 1800 RPM, 133 cu in (2.2 liters). 21.5 to 1 compression ratio.

Isuzu 2.2 model 4LE2 52.4 HP @ 3000 RPM, 105 lb. ft. of torque @ 2250 RPM, 133 cu in (2.2 liter). 18.8 to 1 compression ratio.

1047pm · Jun 8, 2012

(quoted from post at 09:44:36 06/08/12)
A friend of mine and I were talking the other day and he asked a real good question: Why doesn't Ford offer a diesel F150???

And not to compete with the "big" diesel engine/F250-350 models, either...

Mercedes & other car makers have been putting bulletproof small diesel engines in cars for years...

Why wouldn't a small diesel engine option work great for an F150??

Howard

Looks as if they like the F-150 in China

http://www.carnewschina.com/2012/02/03/the-jac-4r3-ford-f150-clone-from-china-in-more-detail/

Bevan · Jun 8, 2012

Ford was going to use a Land Rover engine back in 2008 but that idea fell by the wayside. From going from a gasser 150 to a Diesel 250 I think the average consumer wouldn't put up with the hunt for a good diesel pump nor would they want to blend fuel in the winter or the cost of filters compared to an easy gasser. The gas mileage vs cost per gallon is still advantageous except for costlier filters and then there is a goodly number of repair shops that won't work on diesels (don't ask me why).

Wilks54 · Jun 8, 2012

The only way I'd get a diesel is if I needed more pulling power. then, if I am going to need more pulling power, I am going to be pulling more weight, and then I'll need a 3/4 ton or better anyways.

For the price per gallon, I don't see an advantage of diesel over gasoline just for improved mileage.

wisbaker · Jun 8, 2012

First and foremost GM killed the light vehicle diesel market with their Oldsmobile diesel, (look a gas engine that burns diesel, well okay if you can keep it running), then some of the granola eaters in California, Vermont, Taxachutis and New York layed emission requirements out that further made light duty diesels economically unfeasible. With the market having not quit recovered from the Olds diesel fiasco the Feds decided that the California emissions for diesels were a good idea, driving the last few survivors (VW, Mercedes-Benz and Jeep) out of the market. Fuel squeeze IV brought a new round of clean diesels back from VW, Mercedes and Jeep (yes for a while you could get a Mercedes V-6 diesel in a Grand Cherokee) but then there was the awful corporate divorce so the folks at Chrysler don't do that Mercedes diesel thing any more, Fiat doesn't have clean diesel technology yet. As for 1/2 ton trucks GM did them for a while they were never big sellers so Ford, Chrysler and Toyota saw it wasn't worth the effort. Oh yes the 1/2 tons or 8600 GVW and less have more stringent emission requirement disadvantaging diesels in that market.

RN · Jun 8, 2012

EPA rules for vehicles by class have a weight break about 10,000 pounds gross- under that is near car requirements, over that weight gets a 'commercial/Truck' class and is less strict for a ccouple years on emissions- but some other transport rules apply for brakes and lights. If you make a car diesel for one market, can put it into light truck reasonable cost- just another installation for a 'standard' made engine in your inventory and small sales in truck get added to car sale so total engine sales make money. If you don't have the diesel already, then the money risk to make a 'special' for fickle US market isn't worth it. RN.

oldtanker · Jun 8, 2012

(quoted from post at 06:44:36 06/08/12)
A friend of mine and I were talking the other day and he asked a real good question: Why doesn't Ford offer a diesel F150???

And not to compete with the "big" diesel engine/F250-350 models, either...

Mercedes & other car makers have been putting bulletproof small diesel engines in cars for years...

Why wouldn't a small diesel engine option work great for an F150??

Howard

Look at some facts.

1. The average Americn driver goes about 11,000 miles a year.

2. Cost of diesel compared to gas.

3. Cost of a diesel engine option (5K or better).

4. Average new vehicle buyers trades every 5 years.

You would have to average about 10MPG better with the diesel with diesel and gas both being around 5 dollars a gallon just to pay for the diesel option over 5 years. So at current prices and gas being cheaper than diesel you will never pay the difference. So the question becomes "why would you want a diesel in a 1/2 ton. Heck most people with 3/4 & 1 ton diesels can't really justify them.

Rick

dhermesc · Jun 8, 2012

Depends on the diesel engine. The ones used in the 3/4 and 1 ton pickups are heavy duty engines. A "light duty" diesel engine shouldn't cost that much more than a gas engine.

Who drives 11,000 miles per year?

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

Average male from from 24 to 54 years old drives 17,000 to 18,000 miles per year. Only the people 65 and older drive 11,000 or fewer miles per year.

GordoSD · Jun 8, 2012

Over 70 and it drops to 5000. LOL

Gordo 72

BushogPapa · Jun 8, 2012

"At today's fuel Prices"..?????

Are YOU NUTS..???

Look at the price of Fuel....are YOU some kind of abundant or something..??
The Price of Fuel IS the base problem..
There IS no reason a Diesel will not get 20+% More fuel mileage over gas...
I Loved the 30 MPG I got from my '80 Caprice Wagon Diesel...!!
A little improvement and a turbo and it would be everywhere now...

Ron..

Mel in SW Iowa · Jun 8, 2012

A good friend of mine was a mechanic in a Ford dealership in about 1992 said that at one of the training sessions they went to that Ford had an F150 that was available for fleet sales that had the 3.9 Cummins bt4 in it that they were able to drive. He said that it was fairly snappy for a 4 cylinder diesel. He said he has never seen another one.

JMOR · Jun 8, 2012

A recent car mag shows diesel car & PU cost premium for diesel engine to range from 2000 to 8500 and requiring 22.6 years to break even.

Howard H. · Jun 8, 2012

Yeah - that's why I made the distinction between the need for heavy duty diesels that are so common and the light duty ones...

We were talking about the average city guy that just wants to go get 3-4 bags of yard mulch and a few fence posts or whatever a few times a month, yet puts quite a few miles on the pickup for work (commuting or making rounds or whatever).

We saw an old original 1960's era diesel Mercedes on the highway the other day - just seems like if they can build a small, light diesel that lasts 40 years, surely Ford or GM could, too...

Thanks for the comments,

Howard

S.Crum · Jun 9, 2012

Maybe south of the Mason-Dixon line a diesel F-150 might be worth while. But in the salty road north I don't think one would last long enough to break in the engine let alone justify the extra cost. I actually looked at a 2007 F-150 a couple weeks ago that was rusted even worse than my rusty 97' f-150.

LJD · Jun 9, 2012

Ford and Chevy pickups with the Cummins 4BT are fairly common when it comes to transplants. It's the most common diesel swap. The 3.9 liter turbo Cummins has the same power and torque as a GM/Detroit 6.2 liter V8 diesel. Cummins makes the swap easier since they make adapter bell-housings to fit GM and Ford transmissions.

If somebody really wants a 1/2 ton diesel truck - it's pretty easy to fix up a used GM, or just build your own. A clean $4000 truck with a $2000 Cummins 4BT to swap in is not a huge investment, as compared to some new $40,000-$50,000 inflated rip-off.

buickanddeere · Jun 9, 2012

GM will release a direct injection turbo four cylinder 1.6L that makes 200 flywheel HP.
In production among others is the 177HP 2.4L ECO-tec, a 265 HP 3.0L, a 323HP 3.6L.
The 2013 direct injection GenV V8 will make an easy 400+HP from a just a 6.0L pickup truck engine. With near diesel economy, burning cheaper fuel, cheaper to built and cheaper to maintain engine.
Just don"t see a highway small or mid sized diesel in the CAFE and EPA strangled North American market.
There is a rumour floating around now and again of direct injection gassers being considered. In place of trying to make diesels under approx 30-40HP meet Tier IV specs. For use in light off road equipment ???

buickanddeere · Jun 9, 2012

Other than for a few that "have to" have a diesel. There is very small and uneconomical to cater for segment of the market with any interest in diesel.
95% of drivers out there only what to drive what uses the cheapest priced fuel on the sign at the gas station.
Anybody know off hand the prices of British and German gasoline vs diesel ?

redtom · Jun 9, 2012

I went to a Navistar sponsored class about 15 yrs ago covering the 444 diesel in HD trucks. The Instructor told us that shortly a V-6 version would be out for half tons. I'm still waiting.

Stuart · Jun 10, 2012

What are the RPMs that it takes to get that power from an engine?

chucksoliver77 · Jun 10, 2012

Stuart, i don,t know what rpm the gov. motors engines make their hp as they are not in production yet but the ford 3.5 D.I twin turbo is and here are the specs. max. hp 365 @ 5000rpm, max torque 425@ 2500 with 90 percent torque at 1700rpm [385 ft.lbs] and 90 percent torque still @5000rpm. that is a torque curve of 3300 rpm. i don't know why anyone would want a diesel when you can have a gas engine like this. i have a 150 ecoboost and i can tell you this truck flat out flies when empty and tows like it has more power than ford says it has and is as quiet as a luxury car even at full throttle towing 11000lbs up hill. just my 2 cents, chuck

buickanddeere · Jun 10, 2012

(quoted from post at 20:39:14 06/08/12)
"At today's fuel Prices"..?????

Are YOU NUTS..???

Look at the price of Fuel....are YOU some kind of abundant or something..??
The Price of Fuel IS the base problem..
There IS no reason a Diesel will not get 20+% More fuel mileage over gas...
I Loved the 30 MPG I got from my '80 Caprice Wagon Diesel...!!
A little improvement and a turbo and it would be everywhere now...

Ron..

roblem is the busy little liberals have been turning North America into their version of paradise. CAFE and EPA with tier IV diesel emissions specs. Try a caprice now with diesel vs. gas. A direct injection gasser will make more HP, cost less to purchase and cost less $$$ for fuel per mile.

Diesel F150

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