Lead additive

I wanted to know if there was an option to adding lead additive to unleaded fuel for old tractors? The additive I can get around here is fairly expensive.

I do not know of anyone that bothers with any additives. NO trouble ever noted.

popular opinion around here is unless you are going to work the snot out of the tractor all the time its not needed. Bill

I thought when unleaded gas came about that I needed to put a lead substitute in my old tractors. I don't run my tractors that often and the lead substitute settled out of the gas and was on the bottom of the tank. It was like putty. I had a real mess trying to get it out. No more lead substitute for me. And I've never had trouble with the gas or this new ethanol we get today. Just my 2 cents worth.

It's not needed. Maybe and this is just a maybe, if the old tractors were really used for real and hard farming then?? Maybe. Most of the old tractors now won't be used for the rest of your life as much as a working tractor would in a year. I remember back before diesel was popular and lots of folks converted to propane and that same controversy was talked. Most folks decided not to put hard seats in until valves were pounded out. Guess what, it didn't happen.

Just what makes you think you need it. We have been using the 10% blend ethanol for 30yrs and it just works in the old tractors. What is your use of your tractor.

There is no lead in a lead additive. Save your
money.

I don't use it in anything. Some of my old gas tractors get used under load most of the time, and no problems. Now, I am looking into gas without ethanol from a storage point ont he ones that I show. There may be some advantage to gasoline without ethanol lasting longer withour damage to some fuel system components, especially in chain saws, trimmers, blowers, etc. but I haven't had problems as long as I use Stabil in the gas during storage.

Read the label there is not lead(tetraethyllead) in those additives. Lead was originally used as an octane booster in the 1930s serves no purpose in a slow rpm low compression tractor engine. Most older tractors were dual fuel, gas only to start and warm up, then something else to run on and the main fuel was UNLEADED and used for the heavy work. Spend your money on something useful.

Don't mean to pile on, but agree with the rest - it is a snake oil.

Without lead, the valve seats may wear down a tad earlier.

But you'll spend a whole lot more on the 'lead' additive over those 5000 hours, than what the head job costs, and in the end youll still need to do the head job every so often.

Save your money.

--->Paul

When I was a kid in the 40s, (a very young kid), Dad bought Amoco "white" gas to use in his blowtorch because it did not contain lead, and would not gum up the passages in the blowtorch. Amoco premium gas never did contain "lead" and thousands of drivers used it. I never heard of any premature valve or valve guide damage. When it comes to fuels and emissions, etc. I think that as consumers, we have had a lot of bovine excrement shoveled our way.

The only place you can buy tetraethyl lead is at your local airport. Look for the pump that says "100LL". And it probably won't be for sale there in a few years.

As stated before, we now know have enough experience with unleaded fuel in old engines to know that most of the fears about valve problems were unwarranted. Lead was taken out of gasoline in 1995, yet there are plenty of old tractors running just fine 17 years later. It's not a bad idea to run a tank or two of 100LL through your tractor after a valve job to build up lead deposits, but other than that don't worry about it.

You don't need lead as an octane booster for old tractors. as for valve wear, the co-op puts in a cup of treatment per 100 gallons that replaces lead as a lubricant upon delivery. I have to request it, but they do it for free.

The snake oil you are considering purchasing has no lead in it. It's just a product designed to make the manufacture some $$$. How have diesel, LP and all fuel tractors operated for decades without lead? Keeping lead out of the fuel and thus eliminating the resulting wear and oil contamination. Has more than made up for any valve-seat wear. Engine is likely due for new guides, sears and valves anyways. Check the valve spring pressure too.

If you were able to find pure Tetraeythl-Lead,
it's one of the most poisonous things on earth.
Just a drop, that you'd add to a tank of gas,
could kill you, if it was spilled on your skin,
Deluted 1 to 50,000, or more in a gas mix, it's
still not safe. I've seen many an old mechanic
wash grease off their hands with gas,and did it
myself, in the military--life shortining? Who
Knows ?

Yes, a lead-substitute additive is expensive. Also, I doubt you'll find any verified tests to show if it actually works.

I'm using some now - simply because I had a case of it on my shelf that I bought over 15 years ago. I never bothered to use it UNTIL I had a verified problem. So now - what the heck. I already have it and might as well dump it in the tank.

Lead was added to gas to slow down the burn rate. It had the side-benefit of creating oxides when burnt that coated the valve seats and protected them. I'm sure there are other non-lead chemcials that do the same. Are they worth the money? That's your choice.

If your engine has original seats integral with the head casting and hasn't had a valve-grind -you probably have little to worry about.

If your engine has hardened valve seat inserts you also have little to worry about.

The problem is usually with integral seats that were originally induction hardened at the factory. Once somebody does a valve-job by regrinding, that hardness is lost. If the engine got run a lot on leaded gas afterwards - they could work-harden and also get a protective oxide coating. If done and only run with unleaded - they will wear prematurely.

I rebuilt my 1960 John Deere 1010 gas, including regrinding the seats and refacing the valves. After a couple of hundred hours of use, the valve seats wore so bad I lost ALL valve clearance and it would not run. Almost .020" in recession wear on the exhaust seats. I pulled it apart, readjusted the rocker arms and now it's fine. I'm also dumping in the additives I had laying around. So, I'll run for another 200 hours and see if it makes a difference. Not a perfect test since those seats may of work hardened a bit on their own.

I suspect people that tell you the additive is "snake oil" have no factual data on the subject. It is likely just a guess and emotional "knee jerk" reaction. They may be correct or may be 100% wrong. I've been hearing silly stories on the subject since the early 70s.
I DO know valve seat recession was a huge deal overseas and much more testing was done on it - along with additives. Some were shown to work.

If your machine is not used hard you have little to worry about anyway. My problems showed up after running my 1010 crawler for almost three weeks, almost all day, every day. It started having problems after running 200 gallons of gasoline through it on a pond job.

There is no tetraethyl lead in the "lead substitute" because it is a SUBSTITUTE. Note the word *substitute*.

Supposedly whatever chemical is in the lead substitute is supposed to perform the same function as the tetraethyl lead used to. Supposedly.

It is NOT lead. It never was lead. Nobody ever claimed it was lead. Hence the word "substitute" used when referring to the product.

Did I mention the product is called lead substitute?

Whether it actually does anything or not is up in the air. Most people, myself included, believe it is snake oil.

I've only ever witnessed one case of valve seat erosion from lack of lead in the fuel. It came up last year on a 1975 Ford 351 V8 engine in a custom van that the owner tows an RV trailer around with all summer. Been running unleaded in it since leaded fuel was outlawed for on-road use. It was due for some engine work anyway, so he replaced the top end with all new Edelbrock parts. Sounds sweet, for a Ford.

They never knew for sure what caused my kidneys to fail 30 years ago. One theory was a strep infection. But my disease was also known to be caused by contact with "heavy metals" Lead or mercury.

I used to do a lot of farm mechanic work in the late 60's early 70's. We always washed parts in gas and washed our hands with it. Then ate a sandwhich for lunch with our hands. Dont remember if we washed them first or not. May have been the cause, who knows.

Gene

Hoards dairyman and Wallaces farmer had some article on unleaded gas for tractor use including older models, BMW motorcycle club had their actual wear on certain models results- R69/2s and R75/5/6 had real problems. But consider usege of JD 60 at 1200 rpm wide open and R69/2 at 5000 rpm cruise open road minimal police and the heat ransfer to valve seat in aircooled engine compared to water cooled. Tractor recommendation IHC- 1 cup engine oil to 5 gallons of gasoline for valve erosion in older engine heavy load. Lead may have been handy at the time- but alternates are known like 100:1 2 stroke oil in fuel rank for ACs. Old Ford Ns had stellite exhaust valve to start since they were designed in days of unleaded tractor fuel gasoline. All fuel and distillate are using a fuel that has a fair fraction of light oil in it- old reference to BP "tractor fuel/power kerosene for tractor indicated it was 1/2 unleaded gasoline base and 1/2 kerosene/light fuel oil fractions from the still and was used for early allfuel , distillate and gasoline engines 1950s- one fuel for the area farm market, one fuel tank only needed for supplier- and tractors were happy runners..

Go to your Local Speed Shop or Good Motorcycle Shop and buy some "Racing Fuel" (Leaded Gasoline) and you can get it up to about 135+ Octane WITH Lead..
Use it sparingly..a little gives way more protection (Proportionately) than a lot..so, it should last a long time..

Not cheap, but IS available and IS Quality Leaded Gasoline..

Ron..

Life is a "crap shoot." I'm in my 60s and did all the things you've mentioned, for many years. Also smoked three packs of Marlboros every day and also chewed Red Man. Drank to the extreme excess up till age 30. I also used to install asbestos and breathed the dust all day lone. Worked in a painting shop that lacked ventilation and sprayed until I had to run outside to breathe. Had that lifestyle for 30 year - and to a lesser degree - still do.

And on the different subject -also drove a Corvairs for many years and contrary to Ralph Nader's warning - I survived pretty well.

On the other hand - my cousin died of kidney failure at age 23. My brother died of liver failure at age 64 and he was a "clean living" college math professor. Never got his hands dirty. Didn't smoke nor drink and hardly chased women.

We are all built different and react to different things in different ways. I'll be the first to admit I wish I'd lived a cleaner life when younger - but oh well. Who knows? Maybe some of that bad living protected me from some other malady. My biggest health problem was caused by a John Deere tractor that ran over me an broke my neck (actually the tractor itself was innocent - I was to blame).

If you have extra cash you want to dump, buy an auto parts additive. It is so dillute however that you won't be helping yourself. Sunoco racing gasoline is heavily loaded with lead. Just get some of it and add it to your tank. It would only take about a pint for 20 gallons.

(fuelsandlubestechnologies.org)

Your story sounds like a friend who drank, smoked and lived hard until into his 60's. Was still riding horses in the mountains into his 80's, and once told my wife the oft-repeated "If I'd knowed was gonna live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself." Then he smiled, chuckled, and said, "No, I'm lyin' to ya." Died when he was 85- of causes not related to his lifestyle.

Read the label.It will say petroleum distillates.Thats fuel oil or kerosene.