- Thread starter blunosr
- Start date
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I would say run............. Or have a concrete agreement drawn up by and approved by good lawyers......... You'd be best off (if you want to help) taking X# of horses off thier hands.. No matter what it is, rescue freaks can be a real PITA and prolly impossible to get rid of.....
Comeing from a horse breeder, lover, and keeper........
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
I would be a little concerned if I were you that if the "horse rescue" ran short of money and landowner(you) became the proud owner of the "hay burners"
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
That too...............Don't know what you folks have to worry about, but here, if it#s on your place, you's the Ahole..............
As others have alluded to, spell everything out in a written and signed agreement. Assume nothing, no matter how trivial.
Talk to your insurance company about liability. Ask the horse people about their insurance, and how it covers them on your land.
I'd consider a short term lease - say 1 or 2 years so you have something of an out if you don't want to renew it. I'm sure there are also legal implications if they're paying for the land vs. you allowing them to use it for free (even if it's a small token amount).
It's unfortunate that the land of the free has become the land of the lawsuit - but you can't fight it. Being nice and helpful is kind of a thing of the past.
You've got to look at this as one potentially devestating lawsuit, and work backwards from there, covering every angle now, before something happens.
One odd issue I'd cover with them - especially this being a horse shelter group which I'm sure has a higher rate of horse deaths - but what do they do with the dead horses? If they want to bury them on your land, you better take a close look at your local rules on that, you might be surprised at what you find. Depending on where you live, there could be some real heavy fines involved.
Talk to your insurance company about liability. Ask the horse people about their insurance, and how it covers them on your land.
I'd consider a short term lease - say 1 or 2 years so you have something of an out if you don't want to renew it. I'm sure there are also legal implications if they're paying for the land vs. you allowing them to use it for free (even if it's a small token amount).
It's unfortunate that the land of the free has become the land of the lawsuit - but you can't fight it. Being nice and helpful is kind of a thing of the past.
You've got to look at this as one potentially devestating lawsuit, and work backwards from there, covering every angle now, before something happens.
One odd issue I'd cover with them - especially this being a horse shelter group which I'm sure has a higher rate of horse deaths - but what do they do with the dead horses? If they want to bury them on your land, you better take a close look at your local rules on that, you might be surprised at what you find. Depending on where you live, there could be some real heavy fines involved.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Make the sign of the cross, and slowly back away. Many of these guys are just flim-flam artists, just looking for a sucker. JMHO!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
maybe you can "pay" them to keep your land mowed/upkept and they do it however they see fit (let horsesv eat it) so they are at your mercy??????
NEVER TRUST A GTREE HUGGER.......................
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
As previously stated. Operated by a few sharp
hucksters behind the scenes with loyal emotionally
driven minions to do their will. All in the name of
those poor beautiful horses.
Similar to those TV evangelist ministry shysters.
hucksters behind the scenes with loyal emotionally
driven minions to do their will. All in the name of
those poor beautiful horses.
Similar to those TV evangelist ministry shysters.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Guess you ain't all dumb after all..................
Welllllllllll its your land and your call and none of our business BUT IF IT WERE MY LAND and especially if some abundant do gooder touchy feely sounding group (hey who could be against rescue right lol) wants use of it I WOULD HESITATE AND STUDY AND RESEARCH IT and balance whAT GOOD IT PROVIDES VERSUS THE RISKS to me and my land before I said yes. If you say yes I wouldnt let a horse near the land UNTIL I had an iron clad lease agreement prepared by YOUR NOT THEIR attorney to protect you and your property rights and avoid liability and ther right to kick them off with only short notice with or without cause.....
Now its yours so do as you please
John T Country Lawyer
Now its yours so do as you please
John T Country Lawyer
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Thats a combination of the two worst things you can have on a farm abundant Do-Gooders and Horses.
Who is going to feed and water them? I get a
newspaper from far Western Iowa, where our
Daughter lives, and almost every week there"s a
report of "A starving horse", in the police
report...must be lots of nosey busybodies live
out there..and the people get "Ordered" to feed
the horse,(feed them something better than
pasture)...Could YOU be held responsible ?
newspaper from far Western Iowa, where our
Daughter lives, and almost every week there"s a
report of "A starving horse", in the police
report...must be lots of nosey busybodies live
out there..and the people get "Ordered" to feed
the horse,(feed them something better than
pasture)...Could YOU be held responsible ?
in-too-deep
Well-known Member
Don't do it.
hoof print
Member
No good deed goes un-punished. I would say no.
I agree with the rest- its a train wreck waiting to happen. Check with your liability insurer first, and I think that will be the deal-breaker. Prolly have to get commercial insurance, etc., if they'll touch it at all. Its a convenient way out, if you're a friend of the rescuer.
No way I'd do it. I've seen horse rescue places where the grass is eaten to the bare ground.
BTW, in my location(Western SC) my neighbor has a horse on about 5 acres. It has taken 3 or 4 years, but the horse has about all the pasture eaten to the ground, and the owner does not neglect the horse, feeds it ground feed, etc.
KEH
I would suggest that you refuse this deal.
My reason is BTDT: i.e.- I had some critters on my property that I let someone use. Agreement was: they would keep-up the fences, feeding, watering, etc. It was all up to them to maintain their critters. Well, their critters got out one night and I got a call from a neighbor saying the critters were in their fields and were destroying their crops. I called the owners of the critters and informed them of the problem.
It was 5 days latter when one of them showed up to see what was going on. In the meantime I had to take calls from surrounding neighbors calling me all hours to report to me that "MY" critters were on their property and destroying their crops. At first, the neighbors were nice and understanding. But, as each day went by, the calls escaluted and they were getting madder that nothing was being done (understandably).
By the end of the third day, they were threatening me with lawsuits to pay for damages. It was not even my critters but the neighbors assumed since they came from my property it was my responsibility to get them.
It took me a long time(years) to mend those relationships with my neighbors.
Just my .02 cents.
My reason is BTDT: i.e.- I had some critters on my property that I let someone use. Agreement was: they would keep-up the fences, feeding, watering, etc. It was all up to them to maintain their critters. Well, their critters got out one night and I got a call from a neighbor saying the critters were in their fields and were destroying their crops. I called the owners of the critters and informed them of the problem.
It was 5 days latter when one of them showed up to see what was going on. In the meantime I had to take calls from surrounding neighbors calling me all hours to report to me that "MY" critters were on their property and destroying their crops. At first, the neighbors were nice and understanding. But, as each day went by, the calls escaluted and they were getting madder that nothing was being done (understandably).
By the end of the third day, they were threatening me with lawsuits to pay for damages. It was not even my critters but the neighbors assumed since they came from my property it was my responsibility to get them.
It took me a long time(years) to mend those relationships with my neighbors.
Just my .02 cents.
GeneMO
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, Mo.
Black horse gets out on a dark night. Car hits it and kills some folks. Guess who gets sued?
Run away Forrest, just run!!
Gene
Run away Forrest, just run!!
Gene
If you do not have any other livestock then you will need insurance to cover you in case of any liability issue involving the horses. YES you will need the insurance even if they claim to have it. Their insurance just covers THEM not you. If one of the horses gets out and causes a problem/accident you both will be liable.
My livestock rider is $2500 per year when included with the rest of my farm insurance.
Plus the others have pegged it in that you don't want a bunch of abundant goody two shoe busy bodies on your farm. They are full of good intentions but don't have the a full plan to follow through on their cause. I had a SIL that was always telling us what we should be doing to make the world better but she never followed her own advise. Just a lot of good intentions. Look at the current leaders we have. They themselves give a very small percentage of their PERSONAL wealth to charities but the EVIL presidential contender gives A very large percentage of his income but he is still the evil one.
So when they have a lot of horses on your property and hay gets high priced an they don't have any to feed them horses YOU can be issued the ticket for neglect. You are the LAND owner. In most states that makes you liable. I got sued over a dog being mistreated on a rental property. I had to get a lawyer to protect myself.
My livestock rider is $2500 per year when included with the rest of my farm insurance.
Plus the others have pegged it in that you don't want a bunch of abundant goody two shoe busy bodies on your farm. They are full of good intentions but don't have the a full plan to follow through on their cause. I had a SIL that was always telling us what we should be doing to make the world better but she never followed her own advise. Just a lot of good intentions. Look at the current leaders we have. They themselves give a very small percentage of their PERSONAL wealth to charities but the EVIL presidential contender gives A very large percentage of his income but he is still the evil one.
So when they have a lot of horses on your property and hay gets high priced an they don't have any to feed them horses YOU can be issued the ticket for neglect. You are the LAND owner. In most states that makes you liable. I got sued over a dog being mistreated on a rental property. I had to get a lawyer to protect myself.
Nancy Howell
Well-known Member
Even though I am a horse owner, I would have to say don"t do it. Too many possibilities for big, expensive issues.
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
If you have room for 10 horses they will put 30 on it. Then they will run out of funding and disappear leaving you with the horses. IF you do it, get a contract spelling out who(specific person) is responsible for feeding any extra, who is responsible for repairs, response time for issues, any liability, insurance, ect.....
Another "legal" note- many said "have a good contract specifying yada, yada, yada. Great idea- but what many don't realize is that the court system is generally set up to redress damages by evaluating the damage and awarding a money judgment, not by taking someone by the hand and making them physically DO something.
In the present context, what are you going to do with the 30 worthless horses, when they run out of feed money and abandon the project? If you keep them and feed them, you may get a money judgment against the folks, if you have a contract, but you probably can't collect it, and you still haven't solved the problem of what to do with them, other than feed them until they all die of old age (and you pay the knacker a 100 or so to police up each body).
Court will not force the now-dispersed rescue folks to come get the horses, so you are stuck with them- and with virtually no horse slaughter up and running yet, you will truly be stuck.
In the present context, what are you going to do with the 30 worthless horses, when they run out of feed money and abandon the project? If you keep them and feed them, you may get a money judgment against the folks, if you have a contract, but you probably can't collect it, and you still haven't solved the problem of what to do with them, other than feed them until they all die of old age (and you pay the knacker a 100 or so to police up each body).
Court will not force the now-dispersed rescue folks to come get the horses, so you are stuck with them- and with virtually no horse slaughter up and running yet, you will truly be stuck.
Listen to John T- if you are going to rent/lease or allow an entity like a horse rescue to operate from your land have YOUR lawyer (don't have one? you should!)
draw up a contract to insure your backside and assets are protected from any liability they or their horses may cause. This would include them making you a named
party on THEIR liability insurance so you get a proof of insurance form every time it renews, maybe establishing a performance bond so if they default on their
responsibilities an insurance company pays the vet to come and euthanize the horses and the rendering company/dead stock operator to pick 'em up when they go
hoovies up. It would also be my lay opinion that he rescue group needs to PAY YOU enough to to cover legal costs and the additional insurance you will need to
protect yourself from their error, unless you feel you want to absorb those fees yourself. Yes I know they will have insurance but you will need more insurance
because if bad ju-ju happens you're the one that owns the land, hence if someone's looking to sue you got more stuff (land) so they'll come after you rather than
a poor horse rescue, besides it's bad form to sue a charity like a horse rescue, but it's cool to take a swipe at greedy capitalist land owners like yourself (a
brief glimpse into the abundant mind- scary ain't it?). Might be easier, if the land is suited, to allow them to make hay for the horses on your land and they can
feed it to them somewhere else that isn't your place.
draw up a contract to insure your backside and assets are protected from any liability they or their horses may cause. This would include them making you a named
party on THEIR liability insurance so you get a proof of insurance form every time it renews, maybe establishing a performance bond so if they default on their
responsibilities an insurance company pays the vet to come and euthanize the horses and the rendering company/dead stock operator to pick 'em up when they go
hoovies up. It would also be my lay opinion that he rescue group needs to PAY YOU enough to to cover legal costs and the additional insurance you will need to
protect yourself from their error, unless you feel you want to absorb those fees yourself. Yes I know they will have insurance but you will need more insurance
because if bad ju-ju happens you're the one that owns the land, hence if someone's looking to sue you got more stuff (land) so they'll come after you rather than
a poor horse rescue, besides it's bad form to sue a charity like a horse rescue, but it's cool to take a swipe at greedy capitalist land owners like yourself (a
brief glimpse into the abundant mind- scary ain't it?). Might be easier, if the land is suited, to allow them to make hay for the horses on your land and they can
feed it to them somewhere else that isn't your place.
No way, no how.... not if I was paid double the going rate months in advance. I think others have pretty well covered most aspects of it.
Just ask yourself if you want to be the guy that has to pay to send them off to Truro when they can no longer afford to feed them. You'll then have one of the most abundant, bleeding heart litigious contingents of society focusing all of their hate squarely on you...
I'd just take a pass on this one.
Rod
Just ask yourself if you want to be the guy that has to pay to send them off to Truro when they can no longer afford to feed them. You'll then have one of the most abundant, bleeding heart litigious contingents of society focusing all of their hate squarely on you...
I'd just take a pass on this one.
Rod
Dean Olson
Well-known Member
NO!
BTDT. I have a 4 acre pasture. Agreed to let folks run 2
horses. I knew that's all it would handle. Next thing you know I
had 13. They promptly ate all the grass, destroyed the pasture,
then the fences trying to get over them to have something to
eat.
I had animal control on my case threatening to take animals
and bill me. County only allows 1 animal per acre.
Huge mess.
Took months for me to get rid of the people and horses. Took
years to get the pasture and fences back in order.
The only way I would ever do it again is for the folks to put up
a huge deposit and a binding contract with all the details
covered and a monthly rent.
Then again NOT.
BTDT. I have a 4 acre pasture. Agreed to let folks run 2
horses. I knew that's all it would handle. Next thing you know I
had 13. They promptly ate all the grass, destroyed the pasture,
then the fences trying to get over them to have something to
eat.
I had animal control on my case threatening to take animals
and bill me. County only allows 1 animal per acre.
Huge mess.
Took months for me to get rid of the people and horses. Took
years to get the pasture and fences back in order.
The only way I would ever do it again is for the folks to put up
a huge deposit and a binding contract with all the details
covered and a monthly rent.
Then again NOT.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Question the person talking to you. If they will
still be spending their own $$$ and time every week.
To support the very same horses over the next 20
years time?
I've heard that horses usually live 25-30 years.
still be spending their own $$$ and time every week.
To support the very same horses over the next 20
years time?
I've heard that horses usually live 25-30 years.
GeneMO
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, Mo.
Plus, I will add. Most horse rescue types are Fuc*ed in the head.
There, just had to say that.
Gene
There, just had to say that.
Gene
"If you look for the bad in people, you're sure to find it". Wonder if anybody can tell me where that one came from? (Or admit they know!)
That being said, do your homework, check them out. If it feels right, go for it. Sometimes you just have to do what feels right. Can you deduct it if they are a non-profit? Not all good deeds go unpunished, but some do.
That being said, do your homework, check them out. If it feels right, go for it. Sometimes you just have to do what feels right. Can you deduct it if they are a non-profit? Not all good deeds go unpunished, but some do.
Wow! thanks for all the advice you guys. I do value your advice. I figure most of us here are pretty level headed, and I realize that sometimes we get a little carried away. But I think there have been many good points made here.
I told the rescuer that I'm going to refrain from providing use of my land. I forwarded her a link to this thread so she could see the opinions for herself. She sounds quite level-headed herself and I don't like to disappoint her, but the potential for unintentional difficulties makes me agree with you guys.
I was actually quite interested when she emailed me. I thought of lots of good things about it. Unfortunately I'm 6000kms away for ten months of the year. It's becoming kinda onerous trying to get someone to use the land from such a distance away. Being able to meet people face to face is way better!
I really appreciate the advice I get from you guys (and gals). I've asked lots of questions over the years, and I find you a real stand up group! Even if we haven't actually met in person...
Rod, (in NS) maybe we can get together for a beverage over the summer. I'm in Debert, a quiet little place by the river. I'm only home in July and August, but I'll have plenty of cold beverages in my fridge if you'd like to pop by.
Bye for now,
Troy
I told the rescuer that I'm going to refrain from providing use of my land. I forwarded her a link to this thread so she could see the opinions for herself. She sounds quite level-headed herself and I don't like to disappoint her, but the potential for unintentional difficulties makes me agree with you guys.
I was actually quite interested when she emailed me. I thought of lots of good things about it. Unfortunately I'm 6000kms away for ten months of the year. It's becoming kinda onerous trying to get someone to use the land from such a distance away. Being able to meet people face to face is way better!
I really appreciate the advice I get from you guys (and gals). I've asked lots of questions over the years, and I find you a real stand up group! Even if we haven't actually met in person...
Rod, (in NS) maybe we can get together for a beverage over the summer. I'm in Debert, a quiet little place by the river. I'm only home in July and August, but I'll have plenty of cold beverages in my fridge if you'd like to pop by.
Bye for now,
Troy
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Off season location the other 10 months?
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Pretend you don't read so good and tell them if they want to plant horse fescue on your land that's ok but you don't want any animals there.
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