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- Thread starter bigboreG
- Start date
In years gone by, Deere did try to break into the 18 wheeler market, and also the Class A motor home market, but their efforts didn't pay off. That market seems to be dominated by Detroit Diesel and Cummins, and other wanna-bees.
Notice also Caterpillar has left the 18-wheeler market.
Also, Cat finally figured out that their 3600 engine (locomotive and river boat size) can't overcome EMD, (Electro-Motive Div. of GM) so Cat bought the company last year, it's called Progress Rail Division, I think.
Deere has always built good engines, but that doesn't mean as a corporation they can be in all markets.
MikeS.
Notice also Caterpillar has left the 18-wheeler market.
Also, Cat finally figured out that their 3600 engine (locomotive and river boat size) can't overcome EMD, (Electro-Motive Div. of GM) so Cat bought the company last year, it's called Progress Rail Division, I think.
Deere has always built good engines, but that doesn't mean as a corporation they can be in all markets.
MikeS.
GM was finally able to unload EMD to a private equity firm in 2006(?). They had been trying to sell it for decades but no one would touch it due to legacy costs.
CAT bought it from the private equity firm, and this might be a good fit as they had been in the locomotive repower/rebuilding business for some time and have the capital to compete with GE.
CAT is closing the London, Ontario plant due to endless union problems and building new plants both foreign and domestic.
GE currently has over 60% of the NA locomotive market with EMD most of the remainder. At one time, EMD had over 95% of the locomotive market.
Time will tell.
Dean
CAT bought it from the private equity firm, and this might be a good fit as they had been in the locomotive repower/rebuilding business for some time and have the capital to compete with GE.
CAT is closing the London, Ontario plant due to endless union problems and building new plants both foreign and domestic.
GE currently has over 60% of the NA locomotive market with EMD most of the remainder. At one time, EMD had over 95% of the locomotive market.
Time will tell.
Dean
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
the 13.5 is no 855 Cummins! Older deere engines like the 619 were glorified boat anchors.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
That is what PE firms do, buy the run downs, build them up and sell for a handsome profit, so somebody must have seen some potential there.
I heard that EMD was forced to downsize their rail business by the government, at one time they had 80% plus of the locomotive market until they got hit with an anti-trust suit. I thought the courts were making GM finance competitor's locomotives at a loss through GMAC to level the playing field, same with Terex
gene bender
Well-known Member
An engine in a tractor is not like one in a over the road truck just ask Mercedes Benz and the Freightliner deal.
In 1978 I was sent out to a company called Unit Rig in Tulsa OK. They used that EMD engine in some of their big dump trucks. We were having a new mobile field dynanmometer built near Chicago and they used the EMD in that vehicle. It was a V8 rated at 1600hp and only turned 900rpm. The dynanmometer weighed over 60 tons and would pull the M1A1 Tank at 40mph. I was told they also used that engine in tug boats and small locomotives. Hal
The early GEs were junk.I rode them for many years on RR.They vibrated,leak oil everywhere and were hard to get on and off.In middle 90s they started improving them and they were close to being as good as the GMs.Now there seems to be more GEs than GMs,just my opinion,I don't ride them anymore.
Speaking as a retired locomotive mechanic:
I was working during the experiment with "Cat"
power in GM, EMD, locomotives. The Cat engines
were broke down more than they were running! They
put a 4 cycle V12 in where a 2 cycle V16, (645
cubic ince per cylinder)had been. The company
had so much trouble with them that they didn"t
let them loose to roam the system, (Burlington-
Northern), but restricted them to Minneapolis-
Chicago, or Minneapolis-Fargo service, where they
wern"t so far from "home" when they had to be
towed back dead. I don"t know the exact problems,
as I didn"t work on them..special "Cat" guys
came in when they broke down. And parts
availability was horrable..sometimes they"ed sit
for weeks, waiting for parts. What kind of
service is that? provide a "Test" engine with no
parts availibility? CAT finally decided that they
couldn"t build a sucessful locomotive engine...
"when you can"t beat them-join them" so they
bought EMD.(Electro-motive Division of GM)
The current "Standard" engine is a 710 cubic inch
per cylinder V16.
I was working during the experiment with "Cat"
power in GM, EMD, locomotives. The Cat engines
were broke down more than they were running! They
put a 4 cycle V12 in where a 2 cycle V16, (645
cubic ince per cylinder)had been. The company
had so much trouble with them that they didn"t
let them loose to roam the system, (Burlington-
Northern), but restricted them to Minneapolis-
Chicago, or Minneapolis-Fargo service, where they
wern"t so far from "home" when they had to be
towed back dead. I don"t know the exact problems,
as I didn"t work on them..special "Cat" guys
came in when they broke down. And parts
availability was horrable..sometimes they"ed sit
for weeks, waiting for parts. What kind of
service is that? provide a "Test" engine with no
parts availibility? CAT finally decided that they
couldn"t build a sucessful locomotive engine...
"when you can"t beat them-join them" so they
bought EMD.(Electro-motive Division of GM)
The current "Standard" engine is a 710 cubic inch
per cylinder V16.
Deere spent about two years in study for the over the road market abour 12-14 years ago, when the 12.5 was first introduced. First finding was there was not enough room for a "me too" player in the market. At that time it was Cummins, Cat and Detroit.
Only way to do it was to find a truck builder who would private brand the engine as theirs but say in small letters on the bottom of the data plate "Built by Deere and Co." Nobody really wanted to play ball at that time.
Deere had a handful of 12.5 engines in their own parts delivery trucks that performed well but there was too many players in the market. It is even worse now.
Only way to do it was to find a truck builder who would private brand the engine as theirs but say in small letters on the bottom of the data plate "Built by Deere and Co." Nobody really wanted to play ball at that time.
Deere had a handful of 12.5 engines in their own parts delivery trucks that performed well but there was too many players in the market. It is even worse now.
Tony in Mass.
Well-known Member
My uncle was an engineer on the Delaware and Hudson when they were trying 3 EMD's (SD45's?)against all their ALCO and GE's, the crews didn't want to drive any others, so the D&H traded them to the ERIE for more GE's, everyone was sad to find that out. Canada seemed to make the Montreal version of ALCOs last forever, but across the world, GM/EMD first and GE second, Japanese 3rd. Chinese railways killed nearly all their steam with American made EMD's and GE's in just the last few years. 1000's of units at millions each, that is part of the trade deals no one hears about..
tomtirediron
Member
Goat I remember the 6330, Manske told me crank issues. I remember being told they had derated that Loco several times.
(quoted from post at 21:18:29 04/19/12) Was waiting in line at the factory in Waterloo today, and got to wondering. . . .why has John Deere never got into supplying over the road truck engines? The 12.5 liter and 13.5 liter would be perfect for a semi. Just a thought!
For at least awhile they did supply engines to the over the road truck OEMs. Dad work for Ryder delivering new cars in FL and all the new ones had Deere engines. This was in the 90's
CAT engines can't/couldn't handle the 2007 emissions, at least they didn't have a good design for the DPF regeneration and have too much fuel dilution in the oil. Others have similar problems but CAT is REALLY bad so they got out.
They'll all have to work with the DPFs even in farm equipment whenever EPA adds off-road (if its not already enacted) Do not use the old diesel oil in the new engines. THe new ones need low ash oils.
They'll all have to work with the DPFs even in farm equipment whenever EPA adds off-road (if its not already enacted) Do not use the old diesel oil in the new engines. THe new ones need low ash oils.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
It was a turbo 359 Dubuque not a Waterloo.
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