JD 2555 clutch problem? Hydraulic Problem? Both?

Been running a JD 2555 - the last few years I started to lose power intermittanty - was like I was moving along fine - then would pull a planter or disc up a steep hill or something - once strained - it would lose power but not stall - it would act funny - shuttery, gear shifts became loud, etc...Next day it might fine - or partially fine - letting it sit overnight surely helped but the problem continued to recurr - sometimes the machine could not pull a 6' wide brush cutter up a minor hill on the roadway - almost felt like all the tires went flat - then the next time seemed fine - not full power but decent power.

I recently changed all the hydraulic, filters, screen, etc and added a FEL and joystick - all spring the tractor seemed better - maybe not solved but better - but last night - it went out again - same problem with power - but I burned my hand touching the new joystick valve - was way hot - in fact it seems the flow control valve back to the rear scv's was damn hot - but the rear svc's were not hot...

Any Ideas what I'm facing??

I presume you did buy a closed-center ind hyd loader valve.

2555 hyd systems are closed center. The ind hyd loader could be by-passing oil causing hyd oil to heat and also loosing gpm output. Simple test for ind loader valve is disconnect return hose from the hyd oil reservoir. Start tractor with both ind control valve spools in neutral. If oil flows out of return hose then ind hyd loader valve is at fault. On sluggish going up hill,does your tractor have hyd Hi-Lo option?? If so have you tried going up hill in both high & low speeds?

Sounds like an internal high pressure hydraulic leak. Probably losing hi-lo clutch pressure due to high demand from the main pump. Remove the hyd fill cap and see if you can see or hear oil spraying out of the rockshaft valve. Also make sure the loader valve is a closed center valve but I suspect it is in the tractor as you had problems before the loader. You could also start the tractor cold and let it run for a while and see which component gets hot. Steering valve, scv, rockshaft valve, and the loader valve are all possibilities.

The loader valve gets hot - but its only been on the tractor about 3 weeks - same with the loader (about 6 weeks) - The valve has an optional plug making it a close center valve and I ordered it with that plug and installed it. (I followed that advice received on this forum - it was good advice and helped allot)

The power problem has been ongoing for 3-4 years - some years worse than others - just as Im about to haul it to someone - it seems to vanish - then I wait for it to recurr - which it did yesterday - I was working with the loader moving and rolling some stumps - seemed to lose power at one point and it never really came back...the return trip home was interesting (2.5miles) - It couldn't even haul itself up a mild hill with an empty loader - that when I burned my had on the loader valve and could see the heat around the flow control valve...limping home - cooled it down and as soon as I started working again - it came right back - even sounds funny...

Here is a bit of news - called Brand - I had my rockshaft down and tractor at idle and the hoses to/from the joystick got hot - could hear a whispering sound from the joystick - Brand suggested I increase the pressure on the joystick - perhaps the factory setting of 2000psi was not enough - I did - one full turn and hoses cooled right down and the whispering stopped...

So no - I'm doing the same at the rockshaft - had it down - now its in the full up position - and letting it idle to see if the presure lines to it get hot...

No hi/lo option -

Missing the relief valve set point adjustment is a common error. The system pressure is approx 2250. Other hydraulic mistake is using the scc"s and a bungy cord to supply and return oil from the loader. The scv connection dumps return oil direct to the trans sump. This leaves a 6gpm trans pump supplying trans lube, pto clutch and high-low if equipped. Depending on the amount of internal trans leakage this leaves precious little oil to supply the 10,15 or 20gpm front pump. Do a search on the JD section about ported trans filter covers and supply "t"s". .

(quoted from post at 23:14:04 04/03/12) No hi/lo option -

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If your tractor doesn't have the hyd Hi-Lo option there's no reason other than lack of fuel flow to inj pump or a slipping dry traction clutch for it to slow down on an incline.

When is the last time you changed air and fuel filters? If the engine is slowing down and loss of power I would replace the filters first. Also check the fuel pump. Open the bleed screw at the filter and see if it pumps with the hand primer.

fuel filter was replaced about 60hrs ago...manual fuel pump all seemed fine back then...

Air filter is much older, but looks clean..I will check on that...

I'm also worried about the reverser - I have full power and have never had reduced power in reverse...I'm wondering if the clutch is just not fully engaged????

Tom

Ok we didn"t know about the reverser until now. When the engine is "loosing power", is it labouring and pouring black smoke? Or is the engine loosing rpm under load but making neither smoke nor full rated power? Have you ran the tractor on a dyno to measure HP ? If the engine is being bogged wih a phantom load. Has anyone measured the trans pressure ports for pto/brake and forward/reverse?

I wasn't thinking about a hyd reverser. The hyd reverser could be not getting sufficient hyd psi(165 psi) allowing it to slip.

No - no black smoke - the engine doesn't really bog down - it doesn't stutter or stall...It just loses power and wheels stop turning...I've not done a stall test on the engine - I tried...it didn't stall - but I'm not sure I ran the test correctly...

No hyd trans tests have been done - no hp tests...The problems typically arise when I'm pulling either the planter or disc and come a go - and during this time of year - no one can take the machine to work on it - they are all too busy...just like now...

Once done - the problems pretty much vanishes - rearing its head unpredicatably and then disappearing again...

Oh..........it's all coming together now.
So when the draft load becomes heavy. The engine continues to operate loaded but not loosing rpms from being lugged down. However the wheel speed decreases or stops?
Do the wheels always slow when towing a heavy load?
Is possible to lugg or stall the engine with a towed load in 4th or a higher gear?
Any difference when the trans is hot vs. cool?
Has anybody set the free play on the foot clutch recently?
Has anybody greased the foot clutch recently?
There is a pressure regulator on the trans pump outlet. Plus a divert valve that sends trans oil to priority lubrication and brake loads if trans pressure falls.
Either or both valves can become jammed with dirt or a run away oil filter o'ring gasket.
It would be better to repair this problem before a clutch wears through the fiber material. Then tears it's self to bits running steel on steel.
What kind of trans oil?
How does the tractor do operating a heavy pto load?

Oh..........it's all coming together now.
So when the draft load becomes heavy. The engine continues to operate loaded but not loosing rpms from being lugged down. However the wheel speed decreases or stops? YES

Do the wheels always slow when towing a heavy load? NO - ITS VERY UNPREDICTABLE

Is possible to lugg or stall the engine with a towed load in 4th or a higher gear?

Cannot seem to stall the engine - it seems very happy to idle - the tractor feels like its getting hot - but engine temp guage stays constant...Seems like the wheels have trouble turning (like they are winding up)

Any difference when the trans is hot vs. cool?
ALWAYS - COLD IS WAY MORE POWER THAN HOT

Has anybody set the free play on the foot clutch recently?
i DID...AWHILE AGO 6YRS- IT WOULD NOT DEPRESS ENOUGH TO ALLOW THE PTO TO ENGAGE WITH A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT ATTACHED TO IT...NO ONE HAS LOOKED AT THAT SINCE i ADJUSTED IT - I ADJUSTED IT JUST ENOUGH TO ALLOW THE PTO TO ENGAGE.

Has anybody greased the foot clutch recently?
NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS - IS THERE A NIPPLE?

There is a pressure regulator on the trans pump outlet. Plus a divert valve that sends trans oil to priority lubrication and brake loads if trans pressure falls.
Either or both valves can become jammed with dirt or a run away oil filter o'ring gasket.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THOSE ARE...MIGHT HAVE A JD GUY WITH TIME TO LOOK AT IT FRIDAY MORNING...HE'S NOT SURE...

It would be better to repair this problem before a clutch wears through the fiber material. Then tears it's self to bits running steel on steel.
What kind of trans oil?
JD BRAND (THIS TIME - LAST YEAR IT WAS NAPA)

How does the tractor do operating a heavy pto load?
NO KNOWN PROBLEM WITH PTO LOAD - EVERY TIME I'VE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE PTO IMPLEMENT - I WAS DEALING WITH A FLAT REAR TIRE OR TURNED AROUND TO SEE MY 3PT HITCH BUSTED....

ITS ROUGH GROUND AND I'M NOT EASY ON EQUIPMENT...

Cannot seem to stall the engine

So at no time has the tractor been in 4th or a faster gear and worked the engine enough to lugg it down and stall?

Any difference when the trans is hot vs. cool?
ALWAYS - COLD IS WAY MORE POWER THAN HOT

Ah, Ha........pointing more towards an reverser problem.

THAT SINCE i ADJUSTED IT - I ADJUSTED IT JUST ENOUGH TO ALLOW THE PTO TO ENGAGE.

Important to obtain free play or the clutch and/or throw out bearing will be ruined. Sounds like there maybe plenty of free play but.....

Two stage foot clutch and the pto is not engaged via a hydraulic lever between the two gear shifters. Eliminates one source of trans leaks.

Has anybody greased the foot clutch recently?
NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS - IS THERE A NIPPLE?

The throw out bearing and shaft receive vital lube with a wee and I mean wee shot of grease. Just enough to lube it according to the operator's manual.
There is a grease fitting for the steering close by too iirc.
1-800-522-7448 for the operator's manual.

There is a pressure regulator on the trans pump outlet. Plus a divert valve that sends trans oil to priority lubrication and brake loads if trans pressure falls.
Either or both valves can become jammed with dirt or a run away oil filter o'ring gasket.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THOSE ARE...MIGHT HAVE A JD GUY WITH TIME TO LOOK AT IT FRIDAY MORNING...HE'S NOT SURE...

Trans oil lines can split or shake off if the trans valves start hammering from plugged filers. Even somebody at the factory was perhaps having a bad day installing them.

Have him bring trans gauges and the service manual.

What kind of trans oil?
JD BRAND (THIS TIME - LAST YEAR IT WAS NAPA)

I hope the NAPA oil said "wet clutch compatible" on the side of the pail?

How does the tractor do operating a heavy pto load?
NO KNOWN PROBLEM WITH PTO LOAD

Good news

ITS ROUGH GROUND AND I'M NOT EASY ON EQUIPMENT...

Oh............Well......please try to take an extra moment on occasion to think through a course of action. This in the long run will take less time and cost less $$$.

good point i was reading though here and didnt even think about it not having a hi/lo until he was talking about the pto . Not to many 2555 set up like this one.

(quoted from post at 04:22:06 04/04/12)
Has anybody set the free play on the foot clutch recently?
Has anybody greased the foot clutch recently?

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It appears there's no grease fitting on throwout brg on a traction clutch equipped with a hyd reverser.

THANKS A MILLION FOR THE HELP! I'VE DONE THE HYD MAINTENANCE MYSELF A MONTH AGO - REPLACED HYD FILTER, INC O-RING ON THE PORTED FILTER COVER - WHICH MY JD GUY FILLED ME IN ON THE "HOW" FOR THE ORING (LOTSA GREASE) - HYD SCREEN (THAT DAMN COVER WAS A NIGHTMARE).

MY REAL WORRIES ARE THE LAST TIME IT WAS CRACKED OPEN WAS BY JD. WHEN i GOT IT BACK THERE WERE A FEW PROBLEMS - MOSTLY THINGS WERE FALLING OFF THE TRACTOR (DRAW BAR PULLING A FERT CART). NO HARM DONE, BUT I THINK THEY GOT IT BACK TOGETHER AND NEVER TIGHTEND ALL THE REMAINING BOLTS.

THERE IS A PROCESS FOR BALANCING THE HYDRAULICS ON THE MATCHINE - I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HAS EVER BEEN DONE.

THE REAR HYDRAULIC SCV'S HAVE NEVER WORKED RIGHT AND ALL THE SAFTY KNOBS CONTROLLING LEVER MOTION WERE LOST BY THE PREVIOUS OWNER (A MUNICIPALITY IN IL) THAT HAD A SIDE MOWER MOUNT ON IT.

ANYHOW - IM KINDA THINKING YOUR RIGHT ABOUT A PROBLEM WITH THE REVERSER AFTER FIXING THE PRESSURE PROBLEM ON THE LOADER SCV YESTERDAY MORNING - IT RAN MUCH BETTER - BUT MOVING STUMPS LAST NIGHT - ITS AMAZING HOW MUCH POWER I HAVE IN REVERSE - IF I RELEASE THAT CLUTCH TOO FAST IT'LL GIVE MY SPINE A JOLT - BUT I SHIFTING FOR FORWARD - I'LL SIT THERE A SEC - HAVE TO REALLY AMP UP THE RPMS AND THEN I'LL MOVE FORWARD. MY JD GUY - HAS REMAINED FOCUSED ON A REVERSER PROBLEM SINCE I BROUGHT HIM INTO THE LOOP...I THINK HIM TO BE A REAL GOOD MECHANIC WHO DOESN'T WANT TO WORK ON MY MACHINE - HE KEEPS TELLING ME EXACTLY HOW TO FIX SOMETHING - BUT HE HAS A LINE OF TRACTORS INTO HIS SHOP...ALL THE TIME...TAKING IT TO DEERE IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE AND I DON'T THINK I'LL GET AS GOOD A SERVICE...AS LEAST I DIDN'T LAST TIME!

ANYHOW - THANKS FOR THE HELP - I'M GONNA GO PULL A DISC BEFORE THE RAIN COMES TODAY...OPEN DIRTS A GREAT FOOD PLOT FOR TURKEY (I GUIDE PART TIME...)

(quoted from post at 19:45:58 04/04/12)
THERE IS A PROCESS FOR BALANCING THE HYDRAULICS ON THE MATCHINE - I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HAS EVER BEEN DONE.

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Tom
I'm curious to know what the procedure is to "balance the hyd's"????

I wish we had more info up front. What was the Deere dealership doing with the tractor?

Sounds like you have a pressure leak on the forward clutch of the reverser. It needs to be pressure checked in forward/neutral/reverse to confirm this. I'd also check with the PTO engaged/disengaged and the FWD engaged/disengaged if it's got electric shift FWD. You want to be sure that there are no other leaks besides the reverser.
Honestly, at this point... if you've been running the tractor any length of time with the reverser clutch slipping... the plates are probably trashed. Also... if it's been run with extremly hot hydraulic oil for any length of time it's possible that the clutch AND brake plates are now delaminating... and you will see this in the oil and suction strainers/filters as a fine grit... about the consistency of antiseize. Hope it's not gone that far yet.

Just get the pressure checks done and confirm that the leak is in the reverser clutch... then I'd probably do a thourogh rebuild of that when it's split apart... then monitor the oil and see if the brakes are going to stay OK.

Always remember... with these tractors... STOP at the first sign of trouble with either hydraulics or clutches or it's going to cost BIG dollars to fix.

Rod

The PTO (I found out the hard way) only engaged w/o an implement attached...If I attached an implement to the PTO - it would engage - (clutch fully depressed) so I forced the lever and sheared the pin - so JD had to split the tractor and fix it - problem is, when they gave it back to me - the same problem was immediately pressent - so I adjusted the clutch and presto - I could engage the PTO with the implement attached...

I was shocked that they didn't check this - it was my chief complaint! Plus, after the draw bar fell off - it seemed there was allot that was loose on the tractor - I went around with a lug wrench and tightened everything I could see..

Had the machine out yesterday with a 12' disc in heavy clay soil - it did pretty well - only once did it seem to disengage in 6th gear - I reduced to 5th and if it got too heavy I just spun my wheels - this was good...

It still slow getting going tho - when I release the clutch to start moving - I'll have the clutch full out, and it'll start moving forward a few seconds...reverse is different - it snaps in - like car if your not smooth on the clutch..

Also...question here - must this tractor be stopped in order to change gears? I cannot change a gear unless I am full stop...that normal - thats just how I've always had to operate it..

(quoted from post at 19:39:11 04/05/12) Had the machine out yesterday with a 12' disc in heavy clay soil - it did pretty well - only once did it seem to disengage in 6th gear - I reduced to 5th and if it got too heavy I just spun my wheels - this was good...

It still slow getting going tho - when I release the clutch to start moving - I'll have the clutch full out, and it'll start moving forward a few seconds...reverse is different - it snaps in - like car if your not smooth on the clutch..

Also...question here - must this tractor be stopped in order to change gears? I cannot change a gear unless I am full stop...that normal - thats just how I've always had to operate it..

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IIRC to change the CST trans one must fully stop. On TSS trans one can shift while moving. I also think reverser shift valve contains a modulation valve to curb abrupt shifts. Maybe a technician will state if it's adjustable as I have no tech manual to research that issue. Parts key #23 are shims but I don't know what function parts key # 19 performs.

Got it into my JD guy last week. He believes there is a leak in the forward clutch hydraulic cylinder...He's only reading 50psi on the forward clutch, and 150 psi on the reverse clutch.

He tweaked the hydrualic pressure a bit to get about 100 psi - maybe a bit better to the forward clutch so that I can hopefully get the spring planting done - then we'll crack it and start replacing...

uggg....

thanks for all the help and advice!

(reply to post at 08:30:36 04/15/12)

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Sounds as if you found the problem. If it were me I'd try to get it repaired before the Hi-Lo is toast causing more hyd problems.

(quoted from post at 08:30:36 04/15/12) Got it into my JD guy last week. He believes there is a leak in the forward clutch hydraulic cylinder...He's only reading 50psi on the forward clutch, and 150 psi on the reverse clutch.

He tweaked the hydrualic pressure a bit to get about 100 psi - maybe a bit better to the forward clutch so that I can hopefully get the spring planting done - then we'll crack it and start replacing...

uggg....

thanks for all the help and advice!

Click to expand...

What did he tinker with to raise the pressure ?