Treated Lumber/Post

I read the post below about landscape timbers. It made me think about the treated post in buildings. I have been lucky in what I have bought. There is a local building guy here that makes his own trusses/barn kits and he stocks most of the common lumber for a pole barn. I always bought my post from him as he was as cheap as Menard/Lowe's. He only keep the .6 treated post. (I am not really sure what that means) None of his post have rotted off.

Several of my friends have building that the lumber was supplied by Menard's/Lowes. They found out that many of the post are rotten just below the ground line. One friend checked his equipment shed(60x80)a few years ago. He dug down six inch beside a post and you could stick a screw driver clear through the post. It kind of worked out for him. He was wanting the shed higher so his combine would go in without folding the bin extension. So he jacked the whole shed up two feet and poured a concrete footer for the shed to set on. Every single post was rotten off below the ground.

It makes me wonder how many guys have a problem they don't even realize??? What made us check the post to start with was the high winds that hit out around Waterloo several years ago. Several guy's sheds blew over after the post broke off at the ground. There even have been some lawsuits over the issue.

So I am sure some of you know what the number mean. I just know I try to be careful when getting post to build with now.

built a shed in between the barn and chicken house back in 1980 something one front 6x6 rotted off right at the ground, rest apeared to be ok
all lumber was bought from West Lumber who used to build pole barns in the 60-80's locally
like you say they do need checked every so many years

Check out the Morton buildings and see how there built. They use 2X6 stacked together with the treated bottom 4' and the rest untreated. A lot better post and straighter too. There are other things that they do too that make the building better. Worth a look before you build. I'm not saying that you have to buy from them to use there ideas.

Most of the commercial farm building companies now use pressure treated 2x6s, laminated together to create a 6x6. The reason is that it is very difficult to get the pressure treating material all the way to the CENTER of a 6x6, which is why they rot off at ground level after just a few years. It is NOT difficult at all to get the pressure treating to the center of a 2x6.

Also, the laminated 6x6 poles are made up of 2 parts. There is a shorter section that actually goes into the ground, and then the top portion which fastens on to the short section. The short section recieves a totally different kind of pressure treating from the top portion, which is common pressure treated lumber.

Gotta wonder about any "treated" posts anymore. Hasn't all the strong effective treatment been outlawed by the epa?

If you have access to some used.....cresote treated.......utility posts, get them; they'll be good long after we're in the ground.

I've heard the same thing. Have also read that because of EPA concerns, posts and even RR ties aren't treated thoroughly like they used to be.

I need to build a lean-to shed one of these days, and have thought about buying 4x4 posts at a lmber yard and then letting them dry out in the barn.
Then set the end I'll bury in a bucket of used oil for a week or two.

Hopefully, the oil will soak into the post enough to make it last a lot longer. I may add some diesel to the oil to make it wick up into the wood a little easier.

FWIW! Was told that CCA treated or what ever they call it now, is NOT treated for ground contact. It is only treated for exterior use.

Is there a way to buy creosote to treat the portion of lumber that's going into the ground?

I put used oil on mine, set up a soak system after they were in the ground. I know it would of been better to soak them beforehand, but we bought them (tamarack) right off a sawmill and put them in the ground the next day. Has anyone used oil with any success?

I think I'm going to call my termite man and have my pole barn treated. It was made with the new AC2 lumber and the bottom board is in contact with the dirt.

I had an old treated board made with arsenic in contact with the dirt and the termites were having lunch on that board.

Do anyone think that the poles should have been cemented in, instead of the hole filled with dirt? Do the posts rot or the termites make you think they have rotted?
George

I read that one below too. When I worked for a local lumber yard, I dealt with quite a bit of kiln dried southern yellow pine that was pressure treated with .40% and .60% Chromated Copper Arsenate.

The plants I used to pick up from were in Albany NY, Holbrook Lumber, and a place in Athens NY, which still seems to be in operation.

The athens plant and Holbrook both had giant pressure tanks, they would place units of kiln dried S.Y.P. lumber in these and treat them until .40 % or .60 % of CCA, not sure if any was treated till refusal was mentioned in the below thread on this. These units of lumber were shipped wet, and soaked with CCA, it would crystallize into a blue-ish substance, some pieces were just saturated, leave it in the hot sun and it would warp into a useless piece of wood quickly. I used to haul trailer loads of it, when picking orders in the yard, I always wore gloves.


Holbrook was one of the first treaters according to their site, I have a some of their 6"x6" posts in the ground, that were delivered in the mid 70's and never used til 2006, I've not completed the building yet, plan to soon, the ends are flat and in the weather and are still hard as a rock! I treated the ends with real Creosote (see below photo) before I set em, boy does that stuff reek something awful. The soil is well drained, I'll bet these last a long time yet.








Now after reflecting back and doing some research, it seems OSMOSE, still offers a CCA material, not sure how you can get it though. Used to be OSMOSE and Wolmanized, then of course local plants, though the one near us in Athens was huge.

The links below have some good information about pressure treated wood, take a look might be of interest.
Osmose

Northeast Treaters

Holbrook

This should clarify, the EPA GUIDLINES.
EPA GUIDELINES

(quoted from post at 12:24:58 03/26/12) I read the post below about landscape timbers. It made me think about the treated post in buildings. I have been lucky in what I have bought. There is a local building guy here that makes his own trusses/barn kits and he stocks most of the common lumber for a pole barn. I always bought my post from him as he was as cheap as Menard/Lowe's. He only keep the .6 treated post. (I am not really sure what that means) None of his post have rotted off.

Several of my friends have building that the lumber was supplied by Menard's/Lowes. They found out that many of the post are rotten just below the ground line. One friend checked his equipment shed(60x80)a few years ago. He dug down six inch beside a post and you could stick a screw driver clear through the post. It kind of worked out for him. He was wanting the shed higher so his combine would go in without folding the bin extension. So he jacked the whole shed up two feet and poured a concrete footer for the shed to set on. Every single post was rotten off below the ground.

It makes me wonder how many guys have a problem they don't even realize??? What made us check the post to start with was the high winds that hit out around Waterloo several years ago. Several guy's sheds blew over after the post broke off at the ground. There even have been some lawsuits over the issue.

So I am sure some of you know what the number mean. I just know I try to be careful when getting post to build with now.

Click to expand...

Anyone contemplating using a built-up post bottom made of 2X6, 2X8, etc. needs to be aware that the treated 2X6 and 2X8 lumber from Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. is NOT treated for in-ground use. It has only about half the amount of chemical as the "squares" - (4X4, 6X6, 8X8, etc.)

If you want really good treated lumber, look for a small lumber mill that does their own pressure treating, and you can probably get what you want. They might even be able to use the older CCA chemicals if the wood is for industrial or agricultural use only.

Myron

everyone building pole barns here are useing concrete out of the ground and hooking the post to it.....called perma-colom..i don't think i'll ever use another treated post below ground...i have several that i need to replace but will use the perma-colom

Can still get .80 cca 6x6's and 8x8's here in eastern N.C. For structural/below ground use. Only thing that can hold up to being buried and not rot or termite damage. None of the new treatments are effective for below ground use or capable of .80 treatment which is required around here for pilings used to support houses and pole barns. One of the reasons that cca is still available around here. Can't use it in regular above ground or even ground contact(stupid epa and treehuggers)!

Scott

the .60 means the wood is treated to .6 pounds per Cubic foot of the specified preservative. This is done in the assay zone by wood cores taken as per AWPA standards---generally in the sapwood up to 2 1/2 inches depth. anything i designed I specified 1.0 for ground contact and 2.5 for salt water immersion due to wood borers. Creosote was by far the better preservative in the old days---up to 22 pounds per cubic foot but it was found carcinogenic and is now banned in all states.
yes--old engine oil does help by coating the embedment portion of the post--surounding the post in ground with gravel does help to drain away the moisture and prevent rot. Also applying a termite and ant killer occasionally around the post helps a lot also. Do not stick the bottom end of the post INTO concrete, it has to wick away moisture!-set on to hardened concrete is ok and even pouring concrete around the post is acceptable

Billy---.40 and and .60 is not % but is pounds per cubic foot retention of preservative

preservative is only absorbed in the sapwood and not into the heartwood. AWPA standards only analyze the sapwood for retention---generally only 2 1/2 inches depth. I was amazed that at the preservative facility I was told that most of the preservative--up to 75% is absorbed at the end grains and travels down the sapwood to treat the post!

You're right, mis stated the unit of measure its been a long time since those days, most of the materials we handled was .40, we did not see .60 that much.

Laminated posts made of 3 2x6 or 3 2x8 nailed and glued together are much better these days. I sure wouldn't use a 4x4 or 6x6 any more, the wood is so poor it twists, and any sort of pressure treating - ot the much poorer soaking you mention - doesn't get in real far. The skinnier 2x material will soak much closer to all the way through.

Then with 3 different timbers put together, any knots or warping will not be an issue.

Also, you can spend mone on the well-treated stuff that is in the ground, and use untreated stuff above ground, putting the money where it is needed.

Going to auctions and looking around at the various pole barns, see a lot of the solid poles having issues. The laminated ones don't look so bad as I see things.

--->Paul