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IMHO, speculators ONLY control the UPWARD spiral of prices. They have no effect on prices when they can be reduced. In that case, oil companies reap huge profits while crude prices decline.
World demand, world politics/political unrest has a huge effect.
Failed US energy policy (intentionally failed IMHO) has a big effect.
A simple case of too many hands in the cookie jar.
World demand, world politics/political unrest has a huge effect.
Failed US energy policy (intentionally failed IMHO) has a big effect.
A simple case of too many hands in the cookie jar.
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Greed huh?
Let's say you have a brand new pair of 14.9 X 30 radials and the going rate for them is $1000 each.
You are asking $1800.
I offer you $1400 for them.
You say No.
Are you being greedy?
Or let's say the going rate for your job is $45/hr.
Then one day your boss comes up to you and asks you to take an $8 cut in pay. You tell him no.
Are you being greedy?
Let's say you have a brand new pair of 14.9 X 30 radials and the going rate for them is $1000 each.
You are asking $1800.
I offer you $1400 for them.
You say No.
Are you being greedy?
Or let's say the going rate for your job is $45/hr.
Then one day your boss comes up to you and asks you to take an $8 cut in pay. You tell him no.
Are you being greedy?
Allan in NE
Well-known Member
I confess, it's me.
I gotta somehow show a profit on a whole bunch of saddle horses ya know. :>)
Gonna be 'round town today? I'll buy ya a cool one if yer so inclined. :>)
Allan
I gotta somehow show a profit on a whole bunch of saddle horses ya know. :>)
Gonna be 'round town today? I'll buy ya a cool one if yer so inclined. :>)
Allan
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Would you believe supply and demand?
Yes, there are speculators. Gasoline futures are sold on the New York Mercantile Exchange, and you too may play that game if you have the money and gumption to try. Speculators are an essential part of the commodities market; there needs to be somebody to take the other side of every trade, without speculators the commodities markets would be less stable. Sometime speculation does get out of hand, driving prices to unsustainable levels; when that happens, it's the speculators who get burned, as every bubble must burst.
If you have an alternative to commodities futures market as a way to stabilize fuel prices, I'd like to hear it. Are you perhaps suggesting government price controls?
Yes, there are speculators. Gasoline futures are sold on the New York Mercantile Exchange, and you too may play that game if you have the money and gumption to try. Speculators are an essential part of the commodities market; there needs to be somebody to take the other side of every trade, without speculators the commodities markets would be less stable. Sometime speculation does get out of hand, driving prices to unsustainable levels; when that happens, it's the speculators who get burned, as every bubble must burst.
If you have an alternative to commodities futures market as a way to stabilize fuel prices, I'd like to hear it. Are you perhaps suggesting government price controls?
TomA in CA
Member
Whatever the traffic will bear.
Okay get this, many times we were told the demand is high (way back cars only got 15-20 mpg) and the supply is low sooooooooo they have to raise gas prices buttttttttttt get this, the other day on the news this supposed expert talking head (about high gas prices) is going on saying theres plenty of oil available BUT THE DEMAND IS ANEMIC since people are driving less and using more fuel efficient cars and it was a mild winter SO THEY HAVE TO RAISE THE PRICE LOL If you do the right thing by driving less and higher MPG cars what do we get?? PUNISHED they arent selling enough gas so they have to make more per gallon OH WELL.......
I can remember when they said they had to charge more for gas because thay had the expense to add lead to prevent pre ignition in higher compression engines OK SOUNDS REASONABLE
But then years later THEY HAD TO RAISE THE PRICE AGAIN TO REMOVEEEEEEEEEEE THE LEAD (I though it was added???)
But we have the choice, we do NOT have to buy it unless needed to get to work of pick up the kids or drive to get groceries I reckon. But as far as our choice in setting the price were outa luck
John T
I can remember when they said they had to charge more for gas because thay had the expense to add lead to prevent pre ignition in higher compression engines OK SOUNDS REASONABLE
But then years later THEY HAD TO RAISE THE PRICE AGAIN TO REMOVEEEEEEEEEEE THE LEAD (I though it was added???)
But we have the choice, we do NOT have to buy it unless needed to get to work of pick up the kids or drive to get groceries I reckon. But as far as our choice in setting the price were outa luck
John T
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Not only THAT, John...but right now, the US is a net EXPORTER of oil and gasoline. In other words, we're selling more to other countries than we're importing. So DOMESTIC supply-and-demand has little effect on pump prices; WORLD supply-and-demand is a major part of what's driving prices.
So increasing domestic supply [a/k/a "Drill, baby, drill!"] will have little, if any, effect on price at the pump. Any politician who tells you otherwise is a liar [but then, by saying "politician," I suppose using the word "liar" makes that phrase redundant].
Kinda like my auto insurance...they told me that, even though my driving record was good, my rate was high because I was single, male, under 25, and drove to work. THAT, they explained, was their highest rate class. When I got married, my rates didn't go down. When I turned 25, my rates didn't go down. When I lost my job, my rates sure as hell didn't go down; because my credit was affected, my rates actually went UP. And to this day I have no desire to have a s*x change. So the fact of the matter is, even though I am allegedly out of their "highest rate class," my rates continue to go up, even though I've been accident-free and ticket-free for years. Oh, yeah; they told us that one "benefit" or mandatory auto insurance laws was that, because it would reduce the number of uninsured drivers, rates would go down. That was ANOTHER lie.
Now, I understand that oil companies are yet again reporting record profits; yet nobody's getting gouged.It's simply a response to world markets, and we need to get used to it.
So increasing domestic supply [a/k/a "Drill, baby, drill!"] will have little, if any, effect on price at the pump. Any politician who tells you otherwise is a liar [but then, by saying "politician," I suppose using the word "liar" makes that phrase redundant].
Kinda like my auto insurance...they told me that, even though my driving record was good, my rate was high because I was single, male, under 25, and drove to work. THAT, they explained, was their highest rate class. When I got married, my rates didn't go down. When I turned 25, my rates didn't go down. When I lost my job, my rates sure as hell didn't go down; because my credit was affected, my rates actually went UP. And to this day I have no desire to have a s*x change. So the fact of the matter is, even though I am allegedly out of their "highest rate class," my rates continue to go up, even though I've been accident-free and ticket-free for years. Oh, yeah; they told us that one "benefit" or mandatory auto insurance laws was that, because it would reduce the number of uninsured drivers, rates would go down. That was ANOTHER lie.
Now, I understand that oil companies are yet again reporting record profits; yet nobody's getting gouged.It's simply a response to world markets, and we need to get used to it.
In the case of the tires - If they were only worth $1000 in the first place, and you offered $1400, and I refused, then yes, I would be greedy, but then again, you wouldn't be too smart, either!
As for the cut in pay - it's a pretty vague situation. Is the company cutting wages to stay afloat, or just to line their pockets? Is it just me, or company wide? If just me, I'd figure that I was not performing up to par. If I was hired on at a set amount, and performed my job well - there is no reason to take a cut - unless it was to keep the company going. I'd rather be employed at a cut wage, then out on the street.
Of course, if I were union, then greed would take over, and I'd demand a RAISE, and more benefits....
At any rate - both of these scenarios are individual items, not a wholesale, across the board artificially inflated price due to greed.
As for the cut in pay - it's a pretty vague situation. Is the company cutting wages to stay afloat, or just to line their pockets? Is it just me, or company wide? If just me, I'd figure that I was not performing up to par. If I was hired on at a set amount, and performed my job well - there is no reason to take a cut - unless it was to keep the company going. I'd rather be employed at a cut wage, then out on the street.
Of course, if I were union, then greed would take over, and I'd demand a RAISE, and more benefits....
At any rate - both of these scenarios are individual items, not a wholesale, across the board artificially inflated price due to greed.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Not necessarily. Several years when they kept raising the price of gas in Ontario, large groups of people joined together and boycotted specific gas stations. One week would be Shell, the next week Esso, etc. It worked and the price of gas came down. It was on the news. The biggest problem with doing this is getting enough people on board. I think they had signs up telling motorists to boycott certain stations and they spent a while planning it.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
All I know is that it's not Me that controls the price, If it WAS Me the Price would be .50 a gal.
Buzzman got it right. The US is a net exporter of oil now because global pricing is better than domestic. The oil companies sell the oil to the highest bidder. It does not matter what we want in the US. The companies will ship the oil out of the country for a better price.
Building the Keystone pipeline is an example of a bad decision for the US. We are gonna make it easier for Canada to get their oil out of the US, so our prices will go up. We are Canada's best customer now.
Building the Keystone pipeline is an example of a bad decision for the US. We are gonna make it easier for Canada to get their oil out of the US, so our prices will go up. We are Canada's best customer now.
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
If it ain't the news media & it only takes one idiot reporter to raise gas prices, I don't have a clue. It isn't the consumer for sure.
The oil compaines are the only industry that can & do control supply and demand of their product's. Demand drops so they just shut down a few refineries & they make even more money. Go figure.
The oil compaines are the only industry that can & do control supply and demand of their product's. Demand drops so they just shut down a few refineries & they make even more money. Go figure.
Dachshund, he said, "Let's say you have a brand new pair of 14.9 X 30 radials and the going rate for them is $1000 EACH".
You said, "In the case of the tires - If they were only worth $1000 in the first place, and you offered $1400, and I refused, then yes, I would be greedy, but then again, you wouldn't be too smart, either!"
A pair at $1000 each changes everything, in fact, he would be smart to open his offer at $1400.
I had to read the two posts a couple of times while scratchin' my head. . .
You said, "In the case of the tires - If they were only worth $1000 in the first place, and you offered $1400, and I refused, then yes, I would be greedy, but then again, you wouldn't be too smart, either!"
A pair at $1000 each changes everything, in fact, he would be smart to open his offer at $1400.
I had to read the two posts a couple of times while scratchin' my head. . .
Energy is a commoditiy. Supply and demand, plus emotions control the price. The price is rising now based on emotions. Speculators are buying and thus artificially creating a demanbd that raises the price. That"s being driven by fear that Israel will attempt to destroy Iran"s nuclear capability and thus cause another crisis in the oil rich Middle East Actual "real"demand is down slighlty. The political instability(Iran, Syria, et al) in the Middle East helps speculators ratchet the price of fuels upward
It is a quigmire of politians, stock holders, and oil company executives benefiting.
Making a profit is no brainer with any company, large or small.
Having the clout to actually garantee and control profit is acutally against antitrust rules. However, when the fox is guarding the henhouse, it is impossible to get honest answers.
They have been lying to us all the way back to the early 1970 energy crisis that was the first giant leap in gas at the pumnp prices.
Who says that the oil companies should be garanteed a profit no matter what? I would love to have that luxuary in my company!
Making a profit is no brainer with any company, large or small.
Having the clout to actually garantee and control profit is acutally against antitrust rules. However, when the fox is guarding the henhouse, it is impossible to get honest answers.
They have been lying to us all the way back to the early 1970 energy crisis that was the first giant leap in gas at the pumnp prices.
Who says that the oil companies should be garanteed a profit no matter what? I would love to have that luxuary in my company!
pat sublett
Well-known Member
We are going to solve the problem with electric cars. You would think electricity was cheap. And there won't be rolling blackouts anymore because we are going to do the wind thing. Right, just you wait.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
There was a bill introduced in congress a couple of years ago that basically said you couldn,t speculate on the futures mkt unless you owned the commodity you were bidding on. The bill failed. I think it would help. Roy
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
You are paying for others who are not accident free,
It's like our new fangled electrical smart meter, it will be put in all residences, after completing installation , all the costs go into the pot, divide by the number of units = your share.
Yours, being an easy installation, allows you to be generous and pay a share of the difficult ones. Your choices are nil.
Could democracy fit in there somewhere.?
It's like our new fangled electrical smart meter, it will be put in all residences, after completing installation , all the costs go into the pot, divide by the number of units = your share.
Yours, being an easy installation, allows you to be generous and pay a share of the difficult ones. Your choices are nil.
Could democracy fit in there somewhere.?
O.K., you understand that it is world wide demand driving the price but you do not see that boosting domestic production will lower the price, how can that be? Anytime you increase worldwide supply of some commodity the price is affected, the middle east cannot increase production at will, Saudi Arabia is struggling to maintain their benchmark 10 million barrels per day, an absolute increase in domestic supply will lower the price of oil for years to come. Remember the 1980's and 1990's.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
It's like any other commodity. You have these guys on wallstreet speculating on it. As far as the price of gas we need to blame us. We let these environmental crack pots stop domestic drilling and that is only part of it. The crude is only part of the cost. For environmental reasons they shut down many refineries so not as much crude is being turned into gas as it should driving the cost up. Then the government has large taxes on gas so when you add it all up were screwed.
Fuels are publically traded as a commodity... so the market will determine their price, either by supply and demand or speculation on supply and demand.
In reality we're not going to see any real decrease in fuel prices until we have another bad recession... which will probably be caused by... fuel prices.
Everything we do uses fuel today. It will regulate our economy.
Rod
In reality we're not going to see any real decrease in fuel prices until we have another bad recession... which will probably be caused by... fuel prices.
Everything we do uses fuel today. It will regulate our economy.
Rod
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