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Raw milk debate below. What are the odds of harm???

J

JDseller

Well-known Member
I read and posted on Jay's posting below about drinking raw milk. I want to have all of you to think about what the "cost" of drinking it COULD be. How would any of you feel after you got to watch a family member become very ill and maybe even die from something that was caused by drinking raw milk??? IS the life and health of the weaker family members worth risking over this issue??? They are the ones most likely to become ill form the diseases that can be carried by raw milk. The very young, older people, and any with other health problems are the ones that would be hit the hardest by becoming very ill.

I can't tell you with any 100% certainty that there is any health gain with drinking raw milk. I can find articles and studies supporting both sides of the issue. I have drank raw milk with no issues too.

What I can find with 100% certainty are the obituaries of people that died one hundred years ago from the diseases that unpasteurized milk carried.

So I bought and used a small pasteurizer so my kids had whole milk that I thought was safe. So far I have not had to go through loosing one of my children or grand children. I just don't want to take the risk, no matter how small many think it is, of them getting sick over unpasteurized milk. I don't even like eating raw vegetables that are shipped in from who knows where. Maybe I am just a nervous Nelly but I don't play Russia roulette either.

I have some raw, all natural fertilizer, I am going to have to haul here in the next week or so. If any of you want a few loads you can come and get them. All natural, no added ingredients. LOL I forgot!!! The natural smell is all wrong for the city folks. So I guess I will just have to keep all of it then.
 
I tend to agree with you on this one,even though,as I said,we always drank it. The reasons you give are the reasons I probably wouldn't go back to drinking it from somebody elses farm. I'm kind of,of the opinion that you tend to aquire an immunity to things when you're constantly exposed,and believe that's why none of us got sick. I don't know if the immunity is there anymore since it's been so long now. I agree,the real cost of illness and medical care is just too high for it to be worth the risk.
 
As long as you are fully aware of the possible outcome of drinking raw milk, what business is it of the U.S. Government? We don't need fully-armed SWAT teams wandering the countryside, kicking in milk-house doors and dumping raw milk.
 
When I was real little about 1950 a neighbor girl died from milk sickness. A lot of people quit milking their own cow then. Others got a Pasteurizer. Vic
 
All you have to do is heat milk to 143 degrees for 30 minutes and it kills all the bacteria. Higher temps for a shorter time. Some people like raw milk so they could skim off the cream.
 
I think people go to the Doctor and take their kids to the Doctor way too much these days, and , if they want something to worry about, they also take crazy amounts of medicine, much of which is very toxic. These days, many peoples constitutions are too weak for fresh milk and many other things that were eaten for years and years. I personally know of at least three otherwise healthy relatives who were killed by the medicine they were given for supposed ailments they may or may not have had. listen to the adds for all the drugs on TV and tell me if you would rather take some of that crap or drink fresh milk. Most people just need to get off their backsides, get some exercise or do some honest work and lose some weight and quit drinking all the soda pop and eating the processed trash that passes for food now days. I suspect that our forefathers would think the whole country had lost its collective mind if they could even grasp the amounts of money spent on so called health care, diets and fitness centers while eating ourselves to death on sugar, salt and additives.
 
Cigarettes are a known cancer causing agent, yet sell at minmarts nationwide. Alcohol is known to cause liver damage and even results in death. I know people who raise goats or cows and drink the milk whole, yet, I know more people who died of Tylinol than bad milk. The USDA is trying to external_link us with standard fear mongering. I wouldn't recommending that anyone simply drink raw milk from anywhere, but, if know the farm where raw milk is coming from, I wouldn't make it my biggest worry.
 
The wife and drink it right now. Will drink it as long as the cow produces milk. In my opinion, disease comes from the fact that conditions are not clean and not from the actual milk. Bud
 
It's all about control and protecting the big co-operations. Besides, if you can secure you own food, it's going to be hard to assimilate you into the New World Order.
 
Haven't seen milk at the store that wasn't homogonized. We sold raw milk for years in bottles the costomer brought. No one, to my knowledge, got sick. Our cows were checked out yearly.

There came a time where we did invest in a pasterizer and bottled our milk. That's back when milk was in a glass bottle.

Growing up on a dairy was the main reason I went to college. It didn't take me long to learn what I didn't want to do with the rest of my life.
 
You know one of the biggest problems with people in general is that they try to keep things to clean. As in you go to the store and they have hand sanitizer stuff right there and such. Now days a person immune system does not work as well as did our grand parents because of all the drugs etc. Ya it is good to pasteurize the milk but some of the stuff that is done to food has gone way to far. Now days if you find a seed in a fruit guess what it will not grow because the fruit has been zapped with some sort of radiation and how can that be good for a person
 
If I'd have kept it up it would have been the rest of my life. It just wouldn't have been a long life. No doubt in my mind I'd be dead by now if I hadn't sold those dairy cows eight years ago. And not from drinking the milk either. I chuckled to myself one time when a neighbor said that nobody over 50 has any business milking cows. He was talking about my cousin milking after he turned 50 and was starting to have a few health problems. I just thought to myself I'll die of old age in that barn with those cows. I didn't know at the time that you could die of old age at 50.

As far as pasteurized and not homogenized,I've seen some on farm retailers who bottle their own that do it. It's pasteurized,but still has the cream on top. I think in a few choice locations,you can probably find it in grocery stores when the farmers bottling it can finagle some shelf space in the cooler.
 

Homogenization is one of the things that should NOT be done...it changes the fat molecules to a form that causes more artery Plaque..
Funny, they KNOW that but go right on doing it..

I'd worry more about the Lead and Mercury in tooth fillings and Immunization shots, though..

Ron
 
When I was growing up in the 50"s and 60"s, my family almost always drank raw milk. When we lived in suburbia, we bought it from neighbors who had a couple of milk cows. After we moved to the farm, we had our own milk cows, and started selling raw milk to customers who would drive as much as 20 miles to buy our milk. According to my Dad, it was legal to sell raw milk and cream if the customers came to the farm to get it. Selling milk, cream and eggs did a lot towards paying for my college education a few years later.

People liked our milk because we were extremely careful that it stayed clean and that it was handled correctly. I was told by customers that our milk smelled better and tasted better than the milk sold by some neighbors. The milk was exactly the same milk that our family drank, although we usually drank skim milk from the separator. To my knowledge, no one ever got sick from drinking milk sold by my family.

We never had much trouble with cows getting sick. But the one cow I remember getting sick was no longer used for milking after she got sick. I don"t know just what problem she had, but later that year, she went to the stockyards and probably got made into hamburger or baloney.

Today, I would not consider selling raw milk to anyone...that seems like a lawsuit asking to be filed, no matter how good and safe the milk was. These are litigious times. Would I drink raw milk? I sure would, if I milked it myself and was sure the cow was healthy and the milk handling was done correctly. Except for the fact that I have been lactose intolerant for years and any milk would give me a huge gut ache!
 
Well said Rich.They aren't as paranoid in Europe on the cleanliness thing.Just take the open,outside,markets as a example.

Vito
 
grew up on a dairy in the thumb of michigan folks had a pasturizer in the milk house if i remember right the concern was undalent fever from raw milk. i remember skimming the cream off to make butter dad always took the milk from the same cow every time.
 
Alot of good points were made about this topic. I did have it as a kid for awhile, then my parents started buying store bought , I do too now, just convient I guess. I will say, grass fed cow milk does taste different from non grass fed cows, which i liked better than Production cows fed corn silage, hay,grain, or tmr.And the best I ever had was jersey milk, so rich tasting! It was at a pancake breakfast in a sap house!
 
Wish I had a couple gallons of raw milk right now. Just finished a series of antibiotics and even cheese isn't helping. Never had those problems on the farm.
All the farms around here grow houses and apartments now. Cows are more rare that whitetail deer.
 
we had a couple of jersey's we milked for or own use when we were growing up ,were never allowed to drink it raw always pasteurized it first, the old folks hadn't forgotten some of the sickness's contracted from raw milk even though they had drank when they were younger,of coarse there immune system was subjected to alot more than ours today in most circumstances, things that wouldn't bother them would send some of these that only will eat fresh never frozen or canned to the ER ,don't know what the rage is about raw milk being so good, in the spring the milk would get an off odor from cow eating to much sappy grass or especially to many wild onions,have seen this problem reduced by stirring the milk slowly after it was skimmed during the time it was cooling after being pasteurized,cream would still rise to the top,it would still sour just took a little more time, still would make butter and butter milk ect.after being pasteurized,do have one question though,of all the butter iv'e ever made from cream off sweet or sour milk iv'e never seen it turn out white like some in the stores, how is it made.
 
J.D. , I agree with you 100%. My 3 brothers and I and Ma and Dad and my grandparents with the farm and aunts/uncles on that farm ALL grew up on milk just filtered through the strainer pad into milk cans/mason jars while still warm and never a problem. BUT , 10 yrs later when we had our own farm , Ma layed down the law and we got a 10 qt elect pasteurizer (see I can even spell it) and from then on we were safe. You see , she didn't really want to bury one of her kids either and that was a small price to pay for insurance. (which we didn't have any of incidently). WE didn't alter that milk in any way other than to kill off the potentially bad stuff in it. Still tasted the same and still had to skim off the cream every time you used it. Us kids are all over 60 now and never had any broken bones or serious illness'. the only one to have teeth problems is the one who chose to SMOKE all his life. Other 3 , no cavities or rot. Let that be a lesson to all , don't matter how healthy you eat or live , if you smoke you are killing youself from the inside. My Dad made it to 78 , 2 lung surgeries , never made it back from second one , complete false teeth at age 50 , Mom died last year at 83 , not bad for a smoker , had lung cancer that spread to her brain. Ever watch someone go from pretty normal to not being able to talk or comprehend in 8 hours and to no eating or drinking in 3 days?? I'll let you figure out how long one can go without food or water. At least she was sleeping and out of pain , thanks to Hospice House. Pasteurize your milk , please , or at least for the ones not old enough to make an informed decision for themselves!
 
Back when I was growing up we Milked 3 cows morning and evening, strained the milk through cheesecloth and refrigerated it,I drank at least a quart at every meal and was always to happy to skim a little of the cream off and add to the milk on my post toasties of the morning.I'm sure there was some difficulties years ago, but I'm sure most was the way it was handled.The problem today I feel is all the chemicals we have in our bobies from common food as we know it today, always adding chemicals to take care of this and that,living out here on the road makes it even harder to find something that is decent to eat.

Jim
 
Not trying to downplay your uncles illness or talk anybody out of pastuerizing milk, but if you get sick and the doctor finds out you drink raw milk he will blame it on the milk and never look for the real reason. Many years ago my dad was very ill one summer, in and out of the hospital. When the doctor found out he was a dairy farmer and drank raw milk, he was sure it was some disease he caught from the milk or from being around cows. He was wrong, turned out it was viral menigitis, most likely caught from mosquitos. My brother and I were about 10 and 11 years old and took over most of the milking that summer. Been milking cows pretty much steady ever since.
 
I never had store bought milk till I went to college in 1973. I graduated in 1976 and went back to the farm and milking "lil Jersey"

I ain't dead yet,

Gene
 
I drink bottled milk, but prefer milk out of the vat.Personaly if the BMSCC or individual SCC is under 100000 is more important than is it pasturized. TSG.
 
Been drinking raw milk for the better part of 50 years,I grew up on it,the whole familie did.
Nobody yet has got sick or died from it.
We made butter and Gouda cheese and yoghurt from it too.
 
As a teenager, working on a dairy farm, in the
late 1950's, I've seen a cow lift its tail, and
some poop land in the filter/funnel on top of
the milk can. Farmer dumped it quick, pulled the
filter pad, gave it a rinse with a hose, new pad,
and back on the can...but what went through until
he got there? ? And in summer There were FLIES
landing on the funnel ! !
No thanks, I'll pass on Raw Milk !
 
I think there is a little misinformation on drinking raw milk. New York state is Brucellosis (Undulent fever) and also tuberculosis tested and free.
As far as e-coli bacteria, You can get more. contamination from touching the handle of a gas pump when you fill up.
ps I drink pasturized milk because we no longer have dairy cows.
 
my opinion for what its worth,IF you have good healthy cows,theres little chance of getting sick from raw milk,never has been.BUT its very very easy to pass along some sickness from a sick cow. That normaly happens to the very young or elderly,but it can and does happen. Most folks know this and dump milk from a obviously sick cow. The REAL problem comes in when you have a cow getting sick, that 24-36 hours where one has a sickness and its just not apparent. To me, and ive drank milk both ways,the reason you dont see as much sickness these days from drinking raw milk as what happened when i was a youngster ,comes directly from better overall herd health. Most dairy cattle today are way different animals than the old jersey we would walk out and milk in the middle of the pasture somewhere, that was eating anything that turned green. Add in the fact that we couldnt keep milk,we had no refrigeration to speak of,and the chances of a sickness went way up. When we milked when i was a youngster we hauled the cream (we sold the cream not milk) to the creamery every day,if we couldnt get to the creamery for some reason,such as weather etc,we dumped the milk and cream on the ground. Lots of farmers still used the old cold water seperation method or those without simply let their milk set and seperate and then skim it off.Lots if they had a stream or a horse tank would simply put their milk cans in a stream or horse tank to cool it and make it seperate faster.all these things did as much to increase the chances of contaminated milk than about anything else. Today we dont see as much sickness simply because the milk comes from healthy cows ,directly into clean tanks ,held at cool temps and transported in clean trucks.Quite simply the way milk is treated on the farmis a far cry from what it was,and that is the major factor. Your simply starting with a better ,cleaner,more safe product to start with.Paturizing,and homogenizing milk is not a bad thing.many folks,and probably most these days have never had anything else. It makes milk and its byproducts safe to set on a shelf in a market and extends its usefull life way beyond what i grew up with.But the best thing is it enables folks who normally wouldnt have any access at all,the ability to have it.
 
You do know that cows are no longer milked by hand? With the milkers used today, I can"t see much chance of contamination. The whole system is cleaned with chemicals. The teats are treated with iodine before and after milking. Pasteurization was made mandatory because of things like what you experienced happening. The whole system is so clean, that if milk and barn inspections were a mandatory requirement, there should be very little chance of raw milk contamination
 
SCC is pretty much just a level of damaged protein. I'd be more consious of bacteria count. Thats what the pasteurization kills. A healthy cow can have high concentrations of e coli on the udder and if they aren't prepped and sanitized properly before milking,you could have some real problems. Even if they are,and the milking machine gets kicked off and sucks stuff off the floor,no good is gonna come of it.
 
Drank and still drink raw milk! Better than that stuff that is sold in the stores. You don't have no idea what is added to that milk anyway.

Your advertising raw fertilizer. If your planning on using that in a garden plot, you stand a higher chance of illness with raw material than you do milk.

Look up illness from eggs! If your a nervous Nelly, you'll never eat eggs either.
 
You are more likely to be killed by your doctor thatn by drinking raw milk. I want you all to take some time think about the risk you are taking everytime you go to your doctor's office.

Medical mistakes kill over 200,000 people a year.

http://www.yourmedicaldetective.com/drgrisanti/dangerous_medicine.htm
 
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