BSing with the local Ford/NewHolland dealer today,he told me new tractors now are now "burning"urea!...1 gal urea to 5 gal diesel.The upcoming cleanair standards dictate that to reduce/eliminate smoke.Tractors now have to have 2 'fuel'tanks'(one for diesel,one for urea).Supposed to add an additional$1.50 per gal. fuel cost.Also have big,speacial mufflers to somehow 'scrub'/clean the exhaust.Sopposed to become mandatory in 2014 for all new tractors.Anyone else heard that?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Thread starter DeltaRed
- Start date
Big trucks have been scrubbing the air with urea since 2010.
They do not use 1 gal of urea to 5 gal of gas.
More like 5 gals urea to 1500 gal for trucks.
I don't think the tractors will use that much urea as well.
But the urea for cleaner air is coming.
Maybe if we get rid of the EPA things will be different.
Gary
They do not use 1 gal of urea to 5 gal of gas.
More like 5 gals urea to 1500 gal for trucks.
I don't think the tractors will use that much urea as well.
But the urea for cleaner air is coming.
Maybe if we get rid of the EPA things will be different.
Gary
Yeah that"s the system that CNH is going with and it"s supposed also improve fuel burn since they can tune the engine for max efficiency. i was in WalMart the other day and they were selling DEF(DIesel Exhaust Fluid) all ready.
JD is using an exhaust filter and EGR.
Can you believe that EPA would regulate farm tractor emmissions!? I would imagine that farm tractor emmisssions are so small in the big scheme of things that it"s not worth the bother. But when you have regulator, they have to make regulations to justify their existance!
I have a stcok Ford 4610 and a NH TD95D (with a Tier II engine)and you can"t even see the exhaust from them.
JD is using an exhaust filter and EGR.
Can you believe that EPA would regulate farm tractor emmissions!? I would imagine that farm tractor emmisssions are so small in the big scheme of things that it"s not worth the bother. But when you have regulator, they have to make regulations to justify their existance!
I have a stcok Ford 4610 and a NH TD95D (with a Tier II engine)and you can"t even see the exhaust from them.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Old news.
The urea is injected into the exhaust system down stream of the engine and the combustion chambers. It's not "burned".
The urea is injected into the exhaust system down stream of the engine and the combustion chambers. It's not "burned".
The process of injecting urea into the exhaust stream is called SCR or Selective Caralytic Reduction. It's been used in OTR vehicles since back in 2010 on the larger trucks and worked it's way down to the smaller trucks like the F450's, etc starting, I believe, this year. As for the dilution rate it is established by the MFG for their machine but I can assure you it will be MUCH GREATER of a dilition rate than the 1 to 5 you mentioned. Below is a link that will tell you alot about the newest technology.....
Basically it's just something else for our nannies in DC to force down out throats with no real thought to the problems it can cause for the end user. For example if you live in a really cold climate your now going to have to keep the DEF in your tractor warm during the winter or it wil freeze up. Too I have heard rumors of other problems with things like the particulate filters and their burn off cycles, etc, etc. That said I can't recall exactly the various problems I've heard discussed by the guys driving OTR vehicles with the new systems, and I haven't driven one myself, so I won't say any more about them right now.
Basically though it's just another PITA expense for the avarage man to have to deal with, and pay for. Right along with the expenses and rising costs of everything else........Just makes you want to crawl into a hole somewhere and curl up and pray it all goes away......
SCR technology
Basically it's just something else for our nannies in DC to force down out throats with no real thought to the problems it can cause for the end user. For example if you live in a really cold climate your now going to have to keep the DEF in your tractor warm during the winter or it wil freeze up. Too I have heard rumors of other problems with things like the particulate filters and their burn off cycles, etc, etc. That said I can't recall exactly the various problems I've heard discussed by the guys driving OTR vehicles with the new systems, and I haven't driven one myself, so I won't say any more about them right now.
Basically though it's just another PITA expense for the avarage man to have to deal with, and pay for. Right along with the expenses and rising costs of everything else........Just makes you want to crawl into a hole somewhere and curl up and pray it all goes away......
SCR technology
bobs old iron
Well-known Member
and the dealers are wondering why people are restoring old stuff,[what ever it is]...where is this scrubbing exhaust going after done,,in the air,,, duh,,,the government needs to wake up and fix this stupid mess there are in now, not nit-picking at sh!!t green-peace idiots want them to do for their private world.....
It"s added in a special tank from what I understand and is injected into the exhaust stream. I believe it reduces NOx. The specific fuel consumption improves because the basic cycle can still use high peak temperatures and the NOx reduction takes place after the gas leaves the cylinder.
I heard a Deere rep talk about this at a JD day or planter clinic a couple years ago. Deere is just delaying the inevitable and they know it.
Deere will be running DEF before the decade is out.
Not saying what Deere is doing is wrong but I do wonder if they could have shaved a few dollars off the price of a new combine by just going ahead and doing what they will have to anyway.
Deere will be running DEF before the decade is out.
Not saying what Deere is doing is wrong but I do wonder if they could have shaved a few dollars off the price of a new combine by just going ahead and doing what they will have to anyway.
luv2wrench
Member
yep. 2011 chevy duramaxs use it. gets rid of exhaust filter. tail pipe emissions are very clean. cluster u know what though to make it happen. i already hate working on them and they only been out 2 years. local i h dealership sends it out in 250 gallon tanks. we use 2.5 exhaust fluid gallons.
luv2wrench
Member
Gary is right on the comsumption. I will put the useage in terms the i work with everyday.
I work on duramax trucks. The 2012 has a 5-7 gallon tank. the system uses a heating element cause the urea can freeze easy. the tank lasts anywhere from 5000 to 10000 miles depending on how you are using the truck. "Coffee" trucks last quiet awhile. Farm trucks add at about 5000.
Message come on when you need to add the DEF. IF YOU IGNORE THE MESSAGE THE TRUCK GOES INTO LIMP MODE.
there is an injector at the downstream turbo pipe that pulses the urea in.
We have had alot of problems with this injector leaking fluid already.
Sorry guys, your troulble free diesel is a thing of the past. get to know your truck and your technician working on it.
I still like the injector eating LB7 duramax engine. SIMPLE, EASY TO WORK ON, GOOD MILEAGE.
You can keep your EGR, VARIABLE VANE TURBO, PARTICUATE EXHAUST FILTER, AND UREA.
UREA IS A GOOD IDEA, SO IS ELECTRIC VEHICLES, LETS JUST SEE THEM WORK AS PER THE DRAWING BOARD.
I work on duramax trucks. The 2012 has a 5-7 gallon tank. the system uses a heating element cause the urea can freeze easy. the tank lasts anywhere from 5000 to 10000 miles depending on how you are using the truck. "Coffee" trucks last quiet awhile. Farm trucks add at about 5000.
Message come on when you need to add the DEF. IF YOU IGNORE THE MESSAGE THE TRUCK GOES INTO LIMP MODE.
there is an injector at the downstream turbo pipe that pulses the urea in.
We have had alot of problems with this injector leaking fluid already.
Sorry guys, your troulble free diesel is a thing of the past. get to know your truck and your technician working on it.
I still like the injector eating LB7 duramax engine. SIMPLE, EASY TO WORK ON, GOOD MILEAGE.
You can keep your EGR, VARIABLE VANE TURBO, PARTICUATE EXHAUST FILTER, AND UREA.
UREA IS A GOOD IDEA, SO IS ELECTRIC VEHICLES, LETS JUST SEE THEM WORK AS PER THE DRAWING BOARD.
gene bender
Well-known Member
Thats why there was a rush to buy high HP models a yr agp before the law went into effect i would say your dealer is a little behind times
Earl Hauling Chickens
New User
Yes the new regulations are great been driving truck for 34 years and see more trucks setting on the side of the road than I can ever remember. They go into a regen mode and won't come out of it or any of a 100 other emission related problems and shut down. It is a boon for wrecker companies the more complicated they make the new diesel engines the busier they get.
dixon boy RL
Member
yea you are just behind time. next season 2012 most all new lawn mower engines will have canisters etc on them just like the cars. no nothing new its just sign of times. gas tanks are not allowed vented caps etc etc. small engine carbs can no longer be vented external etc.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
The cat convertor uses urea but not 1 gal to 5 gal. More like 1 gal to 50 gal.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
Also using urea method gets rid of the egr crap on the motor.
Its the reason I have delayed getting a new diesel truck. It was bad enough when I had to settle for a 6.0 over a 7.3 but this urea thing is a bridge too far. I plan on buying old and refurbishing it before I have to pay up per gallon just to run diesel. I can imagin not only worrying about gelling diesel but freezing urea. What next, adding Urea 911. Way to make it more complicated to do work just to make the government happy.
I had a 7.3 dually- great truck, skipped over the 6.0 and bought a 6.4. Love the truck, but only AFTER I got rid of the DPF and the CAT. It made a whole different truck out of it- runs better, more power, gets great milage, and the oil level doesn't go up anymore. It's not legal, but I have a truck that I can drive. I probably spent 5k for that garbage when I bought the truck, and another $800 to get rid of it. The truck experts will probably find a way to eliminate this urea crap in the new pickups also, for "off road" use only, of course!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Diesel combustion has a much greater abundance of air than actually required for stoichometric combustion. But unlike a spark ignited engine (LP, gasoline) a diesel can't run at a stoichiometric condition because you aren't able to get the injected fuel as uniformly distributed. Consequently unless it is a pulling tractor which typically has fire and thick black smoke coming out the stack to get maximum power, you require excess air. At high diesel combustion temperatures much of this excess air becomes NOXs. Lowering the peak cylinder pressure significantly reduces combustion temperatures and thereore NOX, but fuel economy suffers. Two major methods to accomplish this are to retard injection timing, and introduce cooled EGR. Problem is both increase fuel consumption and particulates/smoke. So as NOX goals are lowered, manufacturers have had to add after treatment including a particulate trap to get rid of the smoke/particulates. Alternative is to use urea as an after treatment to change the NOX back to N2 and O, and then tune the engine for more economy by eliminating EGR and using a more optimum injection timing. The "created" O is used to help lower smoke/particulates, making the whole system less complex. Somewhat over simplified the complex issue but should convey the message.
Similar threads
- Replies
- 10
- Views
- 4K
- Replies
- 4
- Views
- 922
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy