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OT - Electric cars turning into a brick

R

RayP(MI)

Well-known Member
Seems the Telsa cars, if allowed to discharge the battery, can become immovable, can"t even tow them. If battery is allowed to completely discharge, it is not rechargable, very expensive to replace. Car can self discharge in a matter of a week. Even if plugged in, it may use more current than can be provided through an extension cord.... Probably not technology ready to be applied to farm machinery, at this time.
brick here
 
(quoted from post at 20:02:41 02/22/12) Seems the Telsa cars, if allowed to discharge the battery, can become immovable, can"t even tow them. If battery is allowed to completely discharge, it is not rechargable, very expensive to replace. Car can self discharge in a matter of a week. Even if plugged in, it may use more current than can be provided through an extension cord.... Probably not technology ready to be applied to farm machinery, at this time.
brick here
Click to expand...
othing $40, 000 won't fix.......at least until next time battery goes dead. :twisted:
 
Tesla. And I was upset I had to spend 2.69 on a battery bolt tonight. It was a two pack and I only needed one so if it helps someone can have the extra for the Tesla problem.
 
Yep back some 75 or so years ago they tried the electric car and it did not work well back then and the same holds true now days. When it cost you 1/2 the price of a new car just to replace the battery's then you can not make a car work well and hold its value
 
Wifes uncle had been a Toyota service manager in The Twin Cities for years. He died 2 years ago. This would be 5 or 6 years ago, Toyota had a hybid (not sure if it was the Prius or what), but he said it had a $3000 battery under the back seat, and it usually went out at 37 months. The car had a 36 month warranty! Said there were ALOT of upset customers!
 
1911 an electric car (Victoria Phaeton) Manufactuted in Amesbury Massachusetts by the S.R.Bailey & Co. Using a battery from Thomas Edison. It was a 60 Volt DC battery, the car could travel 100 miles on a charge at speeds up to 30 MPH. They only built them for 2 or 3 years.
One would think they could do better after 110 years.
 
Well ya they do better now days but when the battery goes bad it cost a person half the cost of a new car to replace the battery so what are you saving in the long run. Plus what people do not think about is what it cost a person to recharge the battery every day
 
I'll Try a photo.
a62993.jpg
 
Yes but you look cool driving down the road in a Tesla and every one knows you really care, after all that's all that is important right? Least that's what the folks in D.C. keep telling us.
 
Is it just a coincidence that the Tesla assembly plant is just down the freeway a mile or so from the Solyndra factory?
 
Your wifes uncle was either a liar who hates hybrids or you misunderstood him.

There are well over a million Prius hybrids on the road with almost no failures of the hybrid battery.
The Prius also has a small 12V battery to run the 12V accessories. It is fairly common for this $100 12V battery to wear out at 4-6 years old, but not the Hybrid traction battery, which is designed to last the life of the car, and almost all do.

The link below shows a Yellow cab company in Canada that uses Prius hybrid taxi.

Taxi duty beats the crap out of a hybrid traction battery, with all the stop / start driving, yet the one featured in the story went
420,000 miles on the original hybrid battery and the car had over 600,000 miles total. The Prius is their lowest maintenence cabs, which the say pay for themselves in 3 years with the fuel savings alone.

I have driven a Prius for near 3 years now, it's the best working, most reliable and by far the cheapest running car I have ever owned, cost $23000 new. It has yet to average less than 50 MPG.

Click on the link and listen to what a Toyota hybrid really is like, there is lots of difference and GM's "mild" hybrids are below pathetic.
Prius hybrid taxi.
 

I have read the average income of a hybrid buyer is $170K a year,,, they can afford it... Just like the folks that buy those off the wall high tech Cadillac's..

Theirs local guy here that is considered to be one of the most knowledgeable guy's in the world on fix'n electric cars,,, He and another guy are doing very well at it... They are click'n off 60K a week teaching it... I don't plan on learning much about them as I will age out before folks can not afford gas ( I think)...
 
Also, while the entire Prius has a 3 year/ 36000 mile warranty, the hybrid system, including the big hybrid battery, has an 8 year 100,000 mile, or if your in a CARB state, a 150,000 mile warranty.
 
Is this favorable review generally applicable to the Lexus hybrid as well? My daughter is thinking about getting one.
 
Jim, I was reading about those with the Edison battery. Many used an Edison nickel / iron battery. The energy density was not very good with nickle / iron, but they were incredibly long lasting.

They claim many of the original Edison nickle / iron electric veichle batteries, if serviced properly, are still good 100 years later.

Check the link below for the story.
Edison EV Battery
 
The mid size Prius hybrid sells for $23000, the new compact Prius C hybrid comes in at under $20,000, so their hardly in the same price class as a fancy Caddy.
 
And the battery is covered under warrenty. Guess the manufacturers don't want the owners to find out just how expensive the batteries are.
 
And the battery is covered under warrenty. Guess the manufacturers don't want the owners to find out just how expensive the batteries are.
 
(quoted from post at 10:58:36 02/23/12) The mid size Prius hybrid sells for $23000, the new compact Prius C hybrid comes in at under $20,000, so their hardly in the same price class as a fancy Caddy.
Click to expand...

my point is they can afford to pay for repairs/technology that goes bad..
 
Okay, the Greenies, the militant vegetarians the environmental wackoes, you know, those who worship at the altar of AlGore and Jane Fonda and Barbra Streisand and Sean Penn and Rosie O Donnell and Reed and Pelosi and the likes, as Ive said here before LOVE ELECTRIC CARS

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT IT TAKES ELECTRIC POWER TO CHARGE THOSE BATTERIES REMEMBER

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT that power is produced EITHER by coal fired plants WHICH THEY DESPISE orrrrrrrrrrrrr NUCLEAR PLANTS WHICH THEY DESPISE orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr DAMS WHICH THEY DESPISE orrrrrrrrrrrr WIND POWER THEY DESPISE (somewhere a bird flew into the wings and was killed!!!!!!)orrrrrrrrr maybe SOLAR like Solyndra who sucked up our taxpayer dollars and went belly up (Great choice, thanks Mr President)

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO theres no pleasing that bunch

Dont get me wrong I love cheaper transportation so when an electric car is produced that is safe and reliable and affordable that has a reasonable mileage range and when an infrastructure is in place where I can get a quick fill up/charge I WILL BE FIRST IN LINE butttttttt will I be breaking the greenies code and environmental or EPA regulations because that dirty nasty electricity came from some BIG EVIL ENERGY MONEY GRUBBING CORPORATION that used coal or nuclear or bird killing wind plants TO MAKE A PROFITTTTTTTT

Oh well lol

God Bless yall take care, headed for another fun filled day here at the Florida Flywheelers,,,,,,,Coffee and donuts at the IHC bldg, tour the antique village,,,ride the tractor and antique exhibits on golf cart,,,,,,,play music on back of 1951 Mercury Pickup in the antique vehicle parade,,,,BS,,,,,,,,,,,lunch and nap time,,,,,,,,,play music,,,,,,,,,eat supper,,,,,,,play music,,,,,,,drink beer,,,,,,, go to bed LIFE IS GOOD

Ol John T
 
I hate environmentalist probably more than most but I like the idea of an electric car. Most of the time I only drive about 20 miles round trip into town and a electric car would sure come in handy with the cost of gas today. I bet no more than I drive a solar panel would keep the batteries charged. I believe it's Sweden has the sweetest solution for electric cars. The government owns and maintains the batteries for the cars. When you travel a long distance you pull into a station that's like a automatic car wash. The car go's through and the machine drops out the battery and replaces it with a charged battery and you just pay a charging fee and your on your way. I know the electric cars are expensive now but like anything new the price will come down.
 
(quoted from post at 23:58:36 02/22/12) The mid size Prius hybrid sells for $23000, the new compact Prius C hybrid comes in at under $20,000, so their hardly in the same price class as a fancy Caddy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was wondering about that...

If it takes a $170K/year income to afford a $23,000 car, how are y'all affording your $36,000+ pickup trucks?
 
Yah, well this is pretty typical of today's "discussions". Listen to what you heard your buddy's gym partner's great uncle said if it's what you want to hear, rather than listening to the guy who owns one but is telling you what you don't want to hear. :roll:

The electric and hybrids got their issues, but there's a lot of new technology that will make the electric and hybrid's better and better, along with just general experience and natural development.

The issue of where they get their electricity when they're plugged in is typical of the nonsense that keeps us sucking up fuel we have to import. You can't change the entire infrastructure at once, but the electric vehicle technology is a great way to do it - change the vehicle's energy source, then change the way you get that energy. Same process as gasoline fueled vehicles followed 100 years ago...
 
I'm waiting to hear the next step in your logic. Where is this "new" electricity going to come from?

In regard to your comment . . . "change the vehicle's energy source, then change the way you get that energy. Same process as gasoline fueled vehicles followed 100 years ago..."

No, not true at all. 100 years ago we had a glut of petroleum and were trying to find expanded ways to use it. Gasoline at one time was an unwanted by-product of petro refining. Now - we have the opposite. We're looking to maintain our lifestyes with no known good source of sustainable energy. There may or may not be a good substitute -but it seems to me cutting back on the extreme waste makes more sense then banking on a technology that does not exist - yet. So far, the USA has done virtually nothing to cut back on waste.

And note - I don't have to ask my " buddy's gym partner's great uncle" for tech advice. I run my house and farm on solar electric/wind power, heat with firewood and also have a 17 KW generator that runs on wood-smoke. I know first-hand the limitations of some evolving technologies - along with some older ones.
 
A Prius traction battery costs $3000 new if by chance you manage to wear out the entire battery(their usually good for 400,000 miles) that is made of seperate easily replacable 7 volt cells /modules. A complete rebuilt battery with all new cells is $1700. They hide nothing, they stand behind the product.
 
I don't own an electric or hybrid but I do know a family with an electric and my son works for a ISP company that got 2 of em 2 years ago.

The family with the electric only uses it in town and only about 4 months a year. Just can't run the car and produce heat in Mn late fall, winter and early spring. SO it sits more than moves. They bought it to make a poetical statement.

The company my son works for sends or service techs in Fargo/Morehead and surrounding areas. The results were in after the first year. No savings in fuel! None, zip, Nada! Lot of their driving is highway and at 55-75 MPH they found that engine runs constantly and they are getting no better mileage than the same sized car thats just a gas burner. They normally keep company cars 2 years but in this case they made an exception and got rid of them after the first year. From what Toyota told them if they really want to get that 50 plus they need to stay under 45 MPH. That don't work to well out here in the country......most of my driving is highway, bout 98%.

Another thing I wonder about on the battery's today. Lot of them are using rare earth metals in the making. Now rare means there is a limited amount. Then you also have to dispose of old batteries. No I know that you can recycle most of a battery but you still have chemicals that have to be neutralized and are still a toxic substance.

Don't get me wrong. If you want to drive an electric or hybrid that's your choice.

Rick
 
Well that's the beauty of it, electric power is a well known and standard energy generation/storage/transmission technology. It can come from many sources, including ones that haven't been invented yet. A gallon of gasoline is a marvelous thing, but to convert, let's say mechanical energy, to gasoline is not exactly straight forward. Converting mechanical energy to electricity is pretty simple.

100 years ago if you had a gasoline powered vehicle you didn't have a gas station every 100 yards in the major cities. It took a while to build the distribution infrastructure, we're actually ahead of that point with electricity, as stated above.

No argument about the "limitations of some evolving technologies", it's just that some people can't really comprehend the "evolving" part of that sentence - they think that what they see now is all they'll ever see. Of course if it was up to their imagination and ambition, that would be true. And they also refuse to see the "limitations of some *existing* technologies", 'cause that means they might have to change! Well the change is going to happen whether we like it or not, we can develop the solutions and sell them to others, or we can drag our feet.. and buy them from the Chinese. Our choice. In a country that has always thrived on building the next best thing, I don't see the issue. And we don't just build things, we build needs. The Internet and cell phones weren't built because we "needed" them, but the world - and our economy - wouldn't be the same without them, because now we "need" them. Just got to have a little foresight and ambition...
 

During my 7th grade year, way back in 1963, we attended a science fair sponsered by General Motors. One of the items being demonstrated was a scale model electric powered car. The model was equipped with photo-voltaic panels on the roof and rear deck lid, and yes, when a light was shone on those panels, the car went into action.

That was in 1963. This is 2012. You'd think we should have come a whole bunch further in 49 years than we have.

I'm all for fuel efficient and non polluting vehicles, but powering a car with batteries is NOT the way to do it.

And beside that, if I can buy a Volkswagen diesel that gets 40 plus miles to the gallon, why would I want to buy a hybrid that gets only 32 miles per gallon?
 
Here in Akron Ohio there were several electric cars from the 20's. I remember seeing these cars as a young boy. Mrs. Firestone had one and used it all the time.
 
The reason those early cars haven't been improved upon that much is that we haven't tried to improve them much. I guess I got more faith in the capabilities of the US than most...

The first automobile was steam powered, built in 1769. Only took a few years and a couple of revisions to get to your 40 mpg Volkswagen, right? :wink:
 
John T. I agree with you 100%. Some of the big pushers ave no idea of the engineering that goes into the interstucture to support their dreamSome one get a idea and does not realize it takes many year for it to evolve. It does no just happen at the snap of a finger. I use an electric wheel chair and it is great. but you want to make sure that they know where you are going. smooth concrete is great rough terrane really uses up the bateriesand it takes time to bring them back up to power.
gitrib
 
I know what your saying about the carbon foot print with electric cars. But on the other hand to me it's more about cost MP$. I was watching pinks on TV and seen a S-10 converted to electric. Direct drive into the rear end. Batterys in the bed. Guy claimed never opened the electric motor up and the tag on the motor said 23 Hp. Thing went mid 12's in 1/4 mile. Super fast 60' times. Electric makes all its power now. Not at the peak of a power band like a engine.
 
Very large solar panel. B.t w how do the solar panels charge your car when you park it in the evening and expect to find a charged car in the morning
 
Have look at the Swedish tax rates on income and on gasoline. Imagine government employees handling your tax dollars to provide battery packs?
 
Re-Check your numbers on battery pack price and service life.Absolutly no way. Battery pack in a deep cycle automotive application will not last like a standby battery pack on float charge in a ups system.
 
My prices on the new or rebuilt traction battery for a full hybrid Prius are correct as of a month ago.

As to the Prius traction battery life, remember, the car is gas powered with an electric boost for short bursts of added power, not an electric veichle that deep cycles the battery on a regular basis.
The traction battery normally does not deep cycle , the state of charge indicator will move 1-2 bars on a 10 bar scale. also the cars electrics are programmed to never discharge the traction battery below 20% and never charge it above 80% charge. This leaves 40% of the battery unavalible,but increases it's life by a huge margin.
I stick by my statement that the Prius hybrid traction battery lasts the life of the car in almost every case, or 420,000 miles like in the BC taxi company I linked to.
 
Oldtanker, sorry to hear that the Prius did not work out for your son. I can't know why, because i have no way of knowing what conditions they operated in.

I am in central ND, so run in the same climate and roads as your son.
We have a 2010 Prius generation 3.

In summer, we like to take long road trips on weekends.
We will get in the Prius on a warm
Sunday morning and just pick a direction and drive, see the sights, stop a bit here and there, just enjoy the country. We run at the posted speed limits for the roads, 65-75 on the highways.
One Sunday we put on right at 600 miles in that 65-75 speed range. When we fueled up, we averaged a bit better than 53 mpg with two on board and a box lunch in the back seat.

That was not just a fluke on one trip, the car has never averaged less than 50 mpg in the near 3 years I have owned it, and we do not puts around at 45 mph.

If anyone is interested in checking this out, there is an owners board called Priuschat.com , where owners talk about everything to do with Prius. Do a little reading over there and you will see that 50+ is pretty much normal for those cars at normal highway speeds.
 
(quoted from post at 02:31:57 02/24/12) Oldtanker, sorry to hear that the Prius did not work out for your son. I can't know why, because i have no way of knowing what conditions they operated in.

I am in central ND, so run in the same climate and roads as your son.
We have a 2010 Prius generation 3.

In summer, we like to take long road trips on weekends.
We will get in the Prius on a warm
Sunday morning and just pick a direction and drive, see the sights, stop a bit here and there, just enjoy the country. We run at the posted speed limits for the roads, 65-75 on the highways.
One Sunday we put on right at 600 miles in that 65-75 speed range. When we fueled up, we averaged a bit better than 53 mpg with two on board and a box lunch in the back seat.

That was not just a fluke on one trip, the car has never averaged less than 50 mpg in the near 3 years I have owned it, and we do not puts around at 45 mph.

If anyone is interested in checking this out, there is an owners board called Priuschat.com , where owners talk about everything to do with Prius. Do a little reading over there and you will see that 50+ is pretty much normal for those cars at normal highway speeds.
Click to expand...
othing unusual here! People ALWAYS defend the decision they have made....to do otherwise would be admitting that they made bad decision! Surprise!
 
(quoted from post at 05:31:57 02/24/12) Oldtanker, sorry to hear that the Prius did not work out for your son. I can't know why, because i have no way of knowing what conditions they operated in.

I am in central ND, so run in the same climate and roads as your son.
We have a 2010 Prius generation 3.

In summer, we like to take long road trips on weekends.
We will get in the Prius on a warm
Sunday morning and just pick a direction and drive, see the sights, stop a bit here and there, just enjoy the country. We run at the posted speed limits for the roads, 65-75 on the highways.
One Sunday we put on right at 600 miles in that 65-75 speed range. When we fueled up, we averaged a bit better than 53 mpg with two on board and a box lunch in the back seat.

That was not just a fluke on one trip, the car has never averaged less than 50 mpg in the near 3 years I have owned it, and we do not puts around at 45 mph.

If anyone is interested in checking this out, there is an owners board called Priuschat.com , where owners talk about everything to do with Prius. Do a little reading over there and you will see that 50+ is pretty much normal for those cars at normal highway speeds.
Click to expand...

Lucky you all open road driving,,, your pleasure will be disappointed when you get caught in a traffic jam on a 95 degree day.... I get 37/39MPG in a $200 Toyota I would not trade it for yours.... I already o-bide by the oboma plan I walk to work ... I will get a electric car when the government supplies me one like they do cell phones... I have a bud that has a yota electric car,,, he smarter than a mule and his head aint haft as big,,, he toted in 14000 pages of repair info on how to repair/reset/adjust the emergency brake... I would not touch it....
 
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