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O/T Electric cars

3

37chief

Well-known Member
Location
California
Are the car companys pushing electric cars in the flat land states? seams like they would not be very popular where there is a lot of distance between things. What happens when you run out of power in the middle of no where? Does the tow truck bring a new battery? I am seeing more and more adds for the electric cars here on the left coast. I don't see myself buying one, what about you guys, or gals. Stan
 
I just dont see one in my immediate future, the cost,,,,,,,,short driving distance,,,,,,,long times necessary to recharge,,,,,,,,,ease and availability of recharge locations,,,,,,,JUST MAKES THEM IMPRACTICAL FOR ME.

Im for burning less fuel and saving when I can as much as the next guy so when all the problems above are cured IM IN THE MARKET

Still, in order to recharge one of those so called GREEN cars where does the electric generation come from???????????? COAL MOSTLY and the militant vegetarians and tree huggers and radical envioromentalists and nnalert who have orgasms over those cars HATE COAL,,,,,,,,HATE NUCLEAR,,,,AFRAID WIND POWER WILL KILL A BIRD,,,,,,,,HATE DAMS,,,,,,,SO HOW DO THEY INTEND TO CHARGE THOSE CARS HMMMMMMMMMM

John T
 
"Still, in order to recharge one of those so called GREEN cars where does the electric generation come from???????????? COAL MOSTLY and the militant vegetarians and tree huggers and radical envioromentalists and nnalert who have orgasms over those cars HATE COAL,,,,,,,,HATE NUCLEAR,,,,AFRAID WIND POWER WILL KILL A BIRD,,,,,,,,HATE DAMS,,,,,,,SO HOW DO THEY INTEND TO CHARGE THOSE CARS "

BINGO!

Dean
 
I am from the flat plains of ND, small towns are 20-50 miles apart, large towns are 100 miles apart.
I have not seen a full electric car in my area, as the battery range would be too little for anyone that got out of their home town.
We have many full hybrid cars, mostly Toyota Prius that use a combination of gas and electric power to produce a pretty amazing 50+ mpg average in a mid size car.
One fellow who lives 1 mile outside a local town has a Chevy Volt plug in hybrid. The plug in hybrid may be practical in my part of the country, as they will go a bit over 20 miles on battery alone, but also have a gasoline engine that will power the car on longer trips. The down side of a plug in hybrid is that it is pulling extra dead weight on either electric or gas power. It pulls a non operating gas engine and fuel tank when running on electric power, then pulls the weight of a large heavy dead battery when running on gas, but with the limited state of the art batteries of today, that is all that can be done.

A full electric may work if used only in a larger town, but small battery power is the big drawback until bettery batteries are invented. A cold weather test I read recently showed that a Leaf full electric used over 45% of it"s battery charge just to heat the cabin at O degrees F.
 
had a program on tv awhile back about who killed the electric car ,pretty interesting if you can locate it to watch,batteries is the biggest problem with them ,but a few years back a man developed a new type of battery that stood to revolutionise the electric cars among other battery powered applications, greed, politics and money as usual solved that situation
 
I am doing a presentation where I will go to Vegas and we are doing it over Tesla, a creator and distributor of electric car parts and their Roadster.

In their case it lists the current problems for electric/green cars are:
-electric cars are underpowered, clunky looking, hard to charge (the batteries), quirky, undependable, no public infrastructure for recharge, high cost up front, limited range of vehicles, takes about 45 minutes to charge battery (only 3-4 to fuel gas), battery performance decreases fast (at 100,000 miles battery is only 60-65% efficient), disposal of the batteries, maintenance

until the majority of these issues are solved, I dont see the "green" market for cars increasing by much more. Those are some GLARING issues.
 
A hybrid that gets 50 MPG is not at all amazing to me for what they cost.I had a VW rabbit diesel back in the early 80's that would get 52 MPG and fuel was a buck a gallon. I now have a 1991 Ford Escort that is totally worn out that still gets 40 MPG. If someone came out with a hybrid that got 100 MPG I might be impressed.
 
Hahahahahaha that is so funny! Windmills killing birds ect! You are so right on the money with that. Great point of view.
 
Do you know Hydroelectric is not considered green? The reason electric cars didn't work in the 1900's? Same problem as now. Another thing to consider about electric cars when one gets into a bad accident (think crash & burn) and the batteries are breached you could be looking considerable clean up costs. Consider this the people that are pushing electric cars is the same group that can't balance the government's check book, the basic concepts of addition and subtraction are beyond their grasp, ask them to understand the concept of energy density in fuel or even the equation that would define energy consumption in a car traveling down the road? Or the more obvious answer they don't care-if they need to go somewhere they'll use a jet plane on the taxpayer's dime.
 
Consider that a Prius hybrid is a mid size, 3300 pound, fully equipped, 5 passenger, car (AC power windows, auto climate control, all the toys), sells for $23,000. And you have to beat on them pretty hard to get the mpg AS LOW AS 50 mpg, drive them easy and they often make 60 mpg.

They still impress me when you drive over 500 miles at 65-75 mph, fuel up and have the pump click off at less than 10 gallons of $3.30 gas.
 
That's all wrong, John. Electricity doesn't come from coal. It comes out of that little plug on the wall.
 
I would rather see someone put money into a wood burner myself. actually gas from smoke. I remember a couple guys went from coast to coast pulling a trailer with the firebox and a load of wood. And the car was a Cadillac.
 
I think your on to something there, but put a bird whistle on the fenders like the deer whistles. then mount a windmill on the roof to recharge the batteries something like the 5th wheel mentioned several times here on this forum at constant highway speeds it would continuously charge
 
The ultimate electric car for urban areas will still be a subway car. Personal electric cars are more for the suburbs.
 
Luckily Indonesian TV never broadcast Back To The Future during BHO"s childhood years or we"d be putting off oil/gas drilling and production while he pushes the car companies to develope Flux Capacitors as well as Electric cars!
 
If that battery is so great they would be making and selling as fast as they could produce them. Close by me guy got all kinds of exposure about using used cooking oil how great it was till in the fall the first cold day and a crowd around trying to figure out why it wouldnt run.
 
Local radio guy hasone and does a ton of advertising for them and had had one for quite some time but never heard him say 50mph or better and i listen almost to his show everyday
 
You forgot the noise and other strange things because of the windmills. Of course everyone knows electric come from that plug on the wall and lites come from that thing in the ceiling.
 
Could they be designed so they could pick up their juice from something buried in the pavement on the main roads then use battery on the small roads? The owner would have to feed the meter somehow to pay for the electricty used from the road grid.
 
Thats actually A TRUE STORY some of the radical environmentalists leftists protest wind generators because somewhere out west I believe a bird did get killed by a wind turbine blade SO WE CANT HAVE WIND POWER NOW THEY CRIED Even if electricity triples in pricve they consider it better then to have a bird die !!!!!!!!!

Its true you cnat make that stuff up

John T
 
I have to call BS on that line of crap.

The best the new Prius can manage is 50 MPG - kind of like how I get 35 MPG out of my HHR. If everything is just right it will happen.

One of the guys I work with has a 2008 Prius model - it gets 41-43 in town and averages 37-38 on the highway if you push it up to 70. The newer Hyundai Elantras and Ford Festivas make 40 mpg highway pretty easy. If the EPA would let Ford import their diesel version (or build it here) it would get 65 MPG.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37/b4099060491065.htm
 
I guess, But after I thought about it..... The interest and depreciation on a $23.000 car will buy all the gas I can burn in my Dodge Ram. So I guess I'l drive that. It's paid for.
 
I would like to know how do they heat electric cars in the winter? Seems to me it would take more electricity to produce heat than it would to run the car.
 
My home town,(6 miles away) has a population of less than 100, has only a Bank, bar and gas station. The nearest town with any stores where we do most of our shopping (22 miles) has 2000 people, Bismarck is 60,000, Fargo is 91,000.
 
Heated seats, heated steering wheel and a small electric heater / defroster. The Leaf electric tests report that it takes 45% of the battery power to heat the cabin at 0 degrees F.

The hybrids and plug in hybrids have waste heat from the onboard gas engines.
 
No BS needed. Like the old cowboy says, "If you can do it, it aint bragging". ;-) I have driven my generation 3 Prius (2010 and later) now for 2-1/2 years and constantly see 53-58 in summer, never less than 48 in the coldest winter months.
My average for the last 10,000 miles has been 51.2 mpg. There is a Prius owners site called priuschat, where the folks that post there say 50+ is normal and expected for the gen 3 Prius. The Prius has been on the road for 10 years, the gen 1 and gen 2 make a bit less mpg, but not much less unless you are a total lead foot.
 
Yet how many times have geese got sucked into an aircraft turbine, but people still fly? Kinda funny, I have read about that thought birds flying into windmills.
 
It appears that these electric cars charge for free...I guess you just stick the plug out the window while you're driving and it charges itelf...That's what makes them so environmentally friendly...I can't imagine any selfrespecting greenie allowing their Volt or Leaf being charged with electricity generated by coal, water, wind or nuclear...that would be hypocritical. And everyone knows there is no hypocracy in the green movement.

Concerning the Prius, I understand that if you remove the external_link bumper sticker, it voids the warranty.
 
Like so many so called good ideas from politicians and other well intentioned, but clueless people, total electric cars are impractical for most of us. They don't have enough range and we don't have a large enough electric grid to supply the power needed to charge them if all of our gasoline cars were replaced by electric. Hybrids solve this problem, but at great expense, and the mileage increase over conventional gasoline cars is not large, and getting smaller as gasoline powered cars become more efficient. When the cost of ownership over time is computed most of us decide that a small conventional gasoline powered car is less costly to run. We tend to vote with our feet, that's why Cheys Volt is not selling as well as predicted. Even with a huge taxpayer subsidy it's still an $18,000 car that costs $40,000. Most of us are way smarter than that. This is my rant and I'm stickin' to it. Common ordinary people are way smarter than the idealists that run our government think.
 
"Concerning the Prius, I understand that if you remove the external_link bumper sticker, it voids the warranty."

I dare you to try putting an external_link bumper sticker on my Prius LOL. ;-)
 
This is funny. When I was interested in old cars, I saw a few stories about 'horseless carriage' companies trying to drive coast to coast. They had to map out every hardware store and chinese laundry, cause that was the only places that stocked 'gasoline' spot remover....
Once they mass produce batteries like they sent in orbit or to other planets- a 20-30 year life span, this will all sort itself out. But, like Nicola Tesla's brainstorms, there would be no steady profit or ego trip to back it.
 
The Stationary storage cells we use for class one backup power last that long. They are just great hulking 660lb 2.2V lead acid battery cells.
If you are talking about batteries for spacecraft that would be ni-cad cells or a variant. Or maybe lithium. Both handle deep cycling with less damage than lead acid.
Part of the problem is these electric car mileage claims are with 100% charged batteries to completely discharged. #1 it uses a lot of power to and gases the batteries to get that last 10% charge. #2 Deep cycling the batteries reduce their capacity and service life.
So if "Elecro-Zap" car company says 50 miles on a charge. it really means 20 miles in ideal circumstances and 10 miles in summer heat or winter cold.
There is no secret Star Trek battery. The laws of physics make storage cells very heavy per KW rand/or very hot, very toxic, very expensive.
Most people can't seem to understand it takes a 4000lb battery to propel a 3000lb car a useful distance. Problem is that car now weighs 3000+7000+ another 1000lb to car the extra weight.
Most of the energy in the battery pack will be used just to haul the battery pack around.
 
Using EPA & Consumer Reports mpg the Prius highway mpg averages 51.5 and a Toyota Corolla 37.5 mpg. 200,000 miles of driving will cost 2329 more gallons in a Corolla or (@$3.50 per gal) $8151.50. I can buy a nicely equipped Corolla for $15,388 vs $23,000 for the Prius. $7612 more for the Prius. A slight saving BUT I have to put the extra money for the Prius up front/right now and the tax would be about $400 more on the Prius. Almost a wash. Personally, I wouldn't buy either one.
 
That's right, weight to power-bulk? of batteries killed the electric cars by the second batch of model T's... till WW1, most all cars were city vehicles. People beyond the trolley line still drove horses. You could recharge your car at home or buy dry cleaner solvent at the corner shop.
A friend who works on electric fork lifts and pallet jacks, says that battery tech is getting better and better, power and charges, but the weight is still up there. I suppose once you leave gravity, that doesn't matter anymore....
 
Yeah, for those long distances I can't imagine today's elecric cars being at all practical out there.

Thanks.
 
(quoted from post at 17:30:37 02/11/12) Yeah, for those long distances I can't imagine today's elecric cars being at all practical out there.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
y granddaughter has been reasonably happy with her plug-in electric, although the battery has need replacement (failed to hold charge & reduced capacity). She never travels far from home either.
Just FYI, current crop of lithium batteries vs gasoline: 1.2 gallons of gasoline (7.4 pounds) contains the energy of a $40,000, 1100 pound battery pack.
My granddaughter's car uses older battery technology. (see below)









Dsc_0048_elect_car.jpg
 
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