Four wheel disk brake questions!!!

A good friend has a 1999 Ford F250 super duty. It has four wheel disk brakes. He uses the truck lightly. It has about 115k on it. He has already had to replace the rear calipers twice. Both times the adjusters where stuck and could not bee freed up. Another neighbor has a ford F150 about the same age. He has had trouble with his rear brakes too. He told me that the Ford mechanic told him to use the parking brake more as it keeps the adjusters freed up. Have any of your heard this???

My brother has a Chevy 3500 Diesel. It has four wheel disk brakes. He likes the stopping power but does not like the maintenance required. He pulls a trailer a lot. He sometimes will not get 15,000 miles between having to replace the rear pads. He also said to really watch out if driving in the rain as the stopping power really seems reduced when the rotors are wet. Again what have you guys experienced with these.

The reason I am asking is that I have found a 2008 Dodge diesel that seems to be a good buy but it has four wheel disk brakes. I don't want to have problems with it as I will be using it to pull trailers the majority of the time.

If it where not for the license cost I would just buy a single axle semi tractor and lighten the springs for a better ride. Then just use it to pull my goose neck trailer.

I'm still not sold on disc brakes. Many designs seem to wear out one side and hang up or drag. I still remember the 1965 F350 dump we had 4 wheel drum type and would really throw you into the steering wheel if you hit the pedal very hard!

i myself think that when they changed to disc's on the rear it was a big screw up. its just the nature of them to wear out driving on mud and gravel roads. everything is out in the open and nothing you can do about it, even with those junky little rock guards. on my 3/4 ton chev i got 130,000km on the rear before having to replace them. plus you will get a surprise as the pads cost 200.00 from GM. my old 95 chev has still the original rear brake shoes at 400,000 km. my driving is mostly highway so mileage is greatly increased.
now i see on this new chev 1/2 ton it has rear drums.

The four wheel disc is better than the old drum. They have a small drum brake setup inside the rotor hub that is the parking brake. Most people never use them so they rust to junk. Unless you use it daily, they will corrode badly. As far as the actual brake, it is usually the caliper floating pins that seize causing brake issues, or rust in the pad mounting area that swells and seizes the pad. Alittle extra time cleaning and lubricating these areas will result in much better brake performance, as will using quality pads, not el cheapos.

I have an 04 Dodge dually with 4 wheel disc brakes, 95k on it and the brake pads are still thick all the way around (I run studded tires in the winter, so they get checked twice a year). The only problem I have had is the abs light stays on, but the truck brakes much better without abs when I have a trailer behind....which is 95% of the time, so that is how I run it. I pull around an 11k load and am impressed with the brake pad life....but then again I am in no hurry like a lot of people are...
The Dodges have had great brakes since they went to the dual piston calipers in 2001.5. Just wish their front U-joints lasted a little longer.....

Though not familiar with the specific ones you have mentioned, myself and several friends have been doing our own brake jobs for many years, one of whom lives up in the mountains and deals with hills, he does them regularly, often times here as I have a heated garage etc. He seems to get decent mileage out of them but sometimes its just pads, other times, the whole works, including rotors, calipers, bearings etc. It sometime seems that every time I turn around he's doing a brake job, certainly does not let them go, thinking about it, there sure is a fair amount of maintenance at certain intervals, after the factory ones wear out.

The one thing that always stood out as a problem are the slides, you have to make sure they are clean and do not seize up, we used to coat them with anti seize, there probably is a specific lube or coating for these as well. They hang up, heat the rotor, rotor warps and you get the chattering effect, premature failure of components.

Another thing with brakes is the drivers habits. I learned a long time ago, that taking ones time, anticipating ones stop well ahead and using the brakes as needed, softly if you will, vs. stomping on them at the last minute will definitely affect the longevity of the wear components.

I like the single axle tractor idea, as you have more capacity, real truck brake systems and all that, what is it the obtaining a CDL the cost issue ? At least with one of these you have the extra capacity and braking. Personally, I'd probably never own a dually or similar, better off with a single axle truck even if a light GVW one, be it older or later model, it always seemed money better spent because of what you get with a medium class truck, even my old '64 F600 grain truck paid for itself in short order, and I did not run it much.

Not particularly pertinent- but my 04 Chev. 1/2 ton 4x4 that doesn't pull ANYTHING has had all the rear parts replaced once.
Go ahead and get yourself the single axle tractor. Just make sure you get air suspension, then the ride is solved. Once you have air brakes and air suspension, you'll never settle for less.

"Another thing with brakes is the drivers habits. I learned a long time ago, that taking ones time, anticipating ones stop well ahead and using the brakes as needed, softly if you will, vs. stomping on them at the last minute will definitely affect the longevity of the wear components."

Bingo!

I learned that from my father decades ago. He could routinely approach 100K from a set of drum brakes in the 1950s and 60s.

If you have to be the first away from the light and the last to hit the brakes before the next light you will need to replace brakes frequently.

Dean

any types of climate will play havoc on open brakes parts, using the emergency brake once in a while, will prevent rust to form on cables/parts causing them to hang up,, i like disc on rear for the better braking power, now i don't live on dirt roads, compared to country, farms roads, etc,,, old brake drums are still as good also..had them both..remember maintenance is the main source of better lasting of any part.. just like tractors..my 2 cents

Must be a where you live & how you drive kind of thing. My rear disk's last just as long as any shoe's ever have. That's running a half mile dirt road every day too. Course we don't have near the salt issues here in NC as some of you guy's.

Interesting questions.

Generally speaking hydraulic disc brakes have no 'adjusters'. The caliper slides on its mounting pins to self adjust as the pads wear.

Rear brakes should outlast fronts by 3 to 1 due to the proportioning valve (or equivalent).

Most disc brake problems that I have seen have been related to the caliper being seized in its slides. This results in the inner pad wearing out prematurely.

Properly maintained disc brakes are far superior to drum systems. I would not be afraid of rear discs on a truck.

Good luck,

Brad

I don't know anything about the brake part of the situation but am curious what your problem is with the license cost of the larger truck. I know we've discussed this on here in the past, and there are differences between the states as to the specifics of the deal, but typically you have to be tagged with a weight sufficient to cover the weight of the vehicle and load combined. In that case you should be able to find an 4700 IH, F650 Ford, C6500 Chevy, GMC Kodiak, or similar 'medium' duty truck to do what your wanting done. For a short, straight truck with possibly a small flat bed and a hitch your not taking that much more weight than a typical dually. In other words the cost of the tag shouldn't be that much more in that respect.

When you get into this class of truck, one thing to look for is to make sure that the vehicle you choose doesn't have Gurling brand hydraulic brakes. Dad's first service truck had them and they were EXPENSIVE to service. If you can find one with air brakes you'll be alot better off, and it's not that hard to tie an electric brake box into the braking system with a pressure switch set to activate at say 2 psi.

Ok, I know some some think that air brakes means a CDL but for them all I can say is show it to me in the books. Air brakes are covered for vehicles over 26,001 GVW but nothing is said about any kind of special endorsements, etc, etc if they are on a vehicle with a GVW of less than 26,001 lbs. Personally I've been driving my sevice truck for nearly 10 years now and been stopped and checked at random roadside checks as well as being pulled in the weight stations for being overweight on the real axel and no one has ever said anything about my plain old class C drivers license. Dad's been in his C6500 Chevrolotte for going on 16 years and is the same boat. He's even been through stations and had the Feds in their little white Tyvec suits crawl all over his and nothing has ever been said about the trucks having air brakes....because it's not in the books for one under 26,001 GVW......

That said with the medium duty truck you'll get a heavier frame, larger brakes, and in most cases alot better engine. As far as the suspension you can shop around and find one set up relatively lite without alot of problems. As for the engine, personally, I'd steer away from the 3116 (mechanical) and 3126 (electronic) CAT's. I know they are popular engines but they are also EXPENSIVE when something goes wrong. For instance, last I heard, it takes nearly $3000 worth of tooling to run the top end on one as Dad had to have his gone over several years back. Even though we work on equipment for a living it wasn't worth the expense to buy all the required tooling to do it ourselves due to the cost. Based on what I've been told over the years by the guys that drive them the DT465 IH engines are good, the Cummins engines are good, and if you can find one, the Series 50 Detroit, (which is what's in my service truck) is all but bullet proof.

Beyond that all you need to do is figure out exactly what you need and shop until you find a truck that fits the bill. It took me over a year to find everything I wanted in a truck before buying my FL 106 Freightliner, and even then I had to have the frame shortened. In the end I got a 275 Hp Detroit, an MD3060P Allison automatic with a double overdrive (gets me on average 5 MPG, and that's loaded all the time....and it was better than that before the ULSD hit the market), a double frame, heavy axels, air brakes, etc, etc. and it has served me well so far, and will continue to do so for a long time to come.

Good luck and happy truck hunting.

no mechanic here but i've never seen adjusters on a disc brake....

On some of them there is a gizmo that actuates the parking brake if you have it you should use the parking brake to keep it free, My Mustang has it the Daughter's Fusion does not and I can't remember in the F-150. Neighbor of ours was into Belgian Horses had a trailer made so he could haul 6 of them to the Fair, pulled it with a F-350 dually. Had an accident and the trailer came up over the truck, it was bad the only body panel that could of been reused was the left rear window (supercab). Swore he'd never put that much weight behind a pick up. Bought a used medium duty to pull the horse trailer, liked it so well he bought a small diesel semi tractor, unfortunately in 1999 he was coming back from state fair and got hit head on, there were no survivors. I still miss his wisdom.

It applies beyond brakes too, operators habits on heavy equipment and quite a few things most of us can think of, would benefit from the same philosophy. I can recall the intervals of brake work early on, and the improvement by just being cognizant of your habits, by all means use em in good health for the job they're meant to do, but like you said,

"If you have to be the first away from the light and the last to hit the brakes before the next light you will need to replace brakes frequently."

Drive like a NYC taxi cab and compare to going easy on em, makes a huge difference in wear, + its good driving, most truck drivers hauling heavy freight or items carry these habits over to personal vehicles as you can't wait til the last minute or ride the brakes etc.

The license cost is base on the rated GVW when you get into heavier trucks. I looked into buying a single axle tractor and making a flat bed for it. I was going to use it to pull my goose neck trailer. Since the other truck we haul grain with are in my name then this truck would have had to be licensed in all of the states that the semis are. The license and insurance was going to cost me over three grand each year.

The friend's 1999 F250 rotates the piston out as the pads wear. It has a threaded piece in the caliper that the manual parking brake linkage pushes against. This get rusted and holds the pads out all of the time so they wear out real fast. Then when you go to put on new pads you can't get the pistons to rotate back so you can't get the new pads on. So you have to buy new calipers. It is a real cheesy made system.

I have a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500, Cummins. It has 4 wheel disk brakes and they work great in the rain. I dont pull a trailer very much and my brakes have 92K on them and are still half there. Where people wear out brakes on a truck is not turning the trailer brakes up enough. Disk brakes do have more stopping power and are easier to work on. Buy the truck, you will like it except for the fuel mileage. If you do buy it, delete all the exhaust filter stuff. More power and better fuel economy

I already have a Class A CDL. The single axle truck license was going to be $1300 dollars each year. The insurance was going to be $1700 for just liability.

Not sure what you mean by adjusters on your friends F250. That truck should have a disk with a drum inside it. The drum part is where the park brake shoes go. The park brake should be completely separate of the regular brake system. As far as the caliper goes you shouldn't have to screw it in should just push in. As far as seizing up you need to make sure the caliper slides are lube up.

"my old 95 chev has still the original rear brake shoes at 400,000 km."

Most likely because they ain't aworkin'.

Brad

Me neither. I mean the caliper is only a few thousands of an inch from ride to full stop and it has the capacity to travel the full length of a new pad down to time to replace the pad. Had 4 wheel discs on a '05 and '07 Ram and never had a minutes problem with either.

Mark

(quoted from post at 13:40:06 02/05/12) "my old 95 chev has still the original rear brake shoes at 400,000 km."

Most likely because they ain't aworkin'.

Brad

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My 96 GMC had the worst brakes ever!

My wife had an '02 Chevy pickup that had a lot of trouble with the rear disk brakes. I'm convinced that these trucks need to have an occasional hard stop so the rear brakes get some exercise. If you drive very conservatively they get rusted up and freeze.

I would say that the key to it is "uses it lightly" I had to get my brakes done at about 50,000 because I use it very rarely in the winter. I drove it in some salt slush then parked it for probably three weeks, so as many others have pointed out the slide pins got frozen up with rust. If it runs pretty much every day they probably last a lot better, but if its going to be parked it probably better be parked with some WD-40 sprayed on the pins.

I bought a 99 F250 this fall and it had 240000 on it and the rear brakes were replaced for the first time when I bought it. Pads and one caliper, and both rotors, and parking brake.

Bob

Brake caliper slides on seized on a Ford? My experience is more of them are seized than aren't. Heat the caliper bracket up good and they usually come right out.

(quoted from post at 20:52:59 02/05/12) My wife had an '02 Chevy pickup that had a lot of trouble with the rear disk brakes. I'm convinced that these trucks need to have an occasional hard stop so the rear brakes get some exercise. If you drive very conservatively they get rusted up and freeze.

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Brakes were grinding for the last week on my '02 Chevy 1500. This weekend, checked them out. Fronts were fine, rears were in need of replacement and the rotors were pretty bad too. Checked my Murray's Auto receipt (now O'Reilly's). Rears were put on in March '07. Almost 5 years and about 50k miles. Drove over to O'Reilly's and got a new set of pads for free (lifetime warranty). Bought a set of rotors for $80 for both. Since the truck is a 5-speed manual, I DO use my parking brake ALL the time, so it's in good shape.