Oil filter leaks back.

Geo-TH,In · Jan 24, 2012

Had to remove the spin on oil filter to work on the starter on my Jubilee. Discovered the NAPA filter had very little oil in it. This is definately the reason it takes about 15 seconds for my oil pressure to build.

1. Is there a filter that won't leak back? Would like to buy filter locally from NAPA, Auto Zone, Advance, or O'Riely's. CHN dealer is 45 miles away.

2. I remember years ago an advertisement showing where they filled a car with oil, ran it for a while, drained the oil and ran 500 miles without oil. What oil was this?

3. Is there a better oil or oil additive to use just in case the tractor sits for weeks, waiting for snow, which I've haven't any this year, and the filter is dry? I don't think this could be good starting an engine without lubrication for the first 15 seconds.

George

souNdguy · Jan 24, 2012

what napa oil filter did you use?

1515 is the common number that crosses from the ph8a fram, and motorcraft fl1a.. however I prefer a 1452 if going with a non oem filter from napa.. etc.

might check to see if it has a ADB valve in it.

soundguy

RodinNS · Jan 24, 2012

Buy a case of filters at the NH dealer... or get the part number for the '300 Dual' filter and have a Cummins dealer cross it to a FleetGuard number.
I'd also wager that if you bought a case of the FG filters... you'd probably get them for close to half what you'll pay for a NAPA/Wix filter.
Drain back valves will be standard in both the NH (FG) and the FG branded filter.

Rod

greygoat · Jan 24, 2012

NAPA"s Master oil filter catalog, in 2 volumes,
each bigger than the old "Sears" catalog, tells
the diameters, lengths, threads, gaskets. It is
easy to pick a filter that fits your monting
specs, and find one with an anti drain back.
If you don"t already have an element with the
anti drain back feature...you"ve got the wrong
one.

Geo-TH,In · Jan 24, 2012

Soundguy, I'm guessing ADB means Anti Drain Back valve, right? Where would I find it? What does it look like? Is it a part of the filter or on the tractor? Are frams better? Oil filters cost less than rebuilding engine, cost is not the issue. The filter I removed, has a black rubber like gasket covering the small holes. Is this the ADB valve?

Thanks,
George

dhermesc · Jan 24, 2012

All (or nearly all) modern filters have an antidrain back valve. How well they work is up for debate. The base Fram filter is recognized for usually being the cheapest built of the lot and their drain back valves tend to leak.

To be honest I'm surprised you had this problem with a NAPA filter (I assume it's a rebranded WIX) as they tend to have pretty good quality - but there can be a bad one every once in the while.

As stated most any quality (WIX, Purolator, oil filter will have the antidrain back feature.

For more discussion by some people that seem to know (ore at least pretend to know)

http://boardreader.com/thread/Good_oil_filter_brands_Bob_Is_The_Oil_Gu_lg3kX1b8nl.html

souNdguy · Jan 24, 2012

yep, adb is the anti drain back valve, it will be integral to the filter.

I'm not sure what the napa filter has, though if you call napa you should be able to get a number to their technical side and get specs on the filter.. I have done so on ignition coils.

I use fram many times or motorcraft fl1a filters.

I don't think i have ANYTHING that takes more than about 3 seconds to start showing oil pressure. I'm not sure I would even let something run 10 seconds let alone 15 with no oil pressure.

how fast does she build oil pressure after being shut down vs to being started after setting a while?

does she have good oil pressure? like 55# .. most 134/172 engines can make 55# on a good day, and even a worn out clap trap should make 25-35 hot idle.. anything less and I'd say there is an issue.

soundguy

Geo-TH,In · Jan 24, 2012

Using a NAPA 21515. In the summer, it doesn't take as long. Perhaps because the oil is warmer and it's almost instant if I shut it off and restart. Definately have a drain back problem with filter. In the winter I only use tractor for snow removal, and guess what, NO SNOW all winter. When I removed the filter, there wasn't enough oil in the filter to drip all the way down the side of the engine.

My engine was rebuilt before I bought it and it doesn't use a drop of oil.

May take a road trip to CHN. Please address the best oil or additive question. I'm thinking the oil add where they ran 500 miles without oil was quaker state synthetic oil. What's your opinion? How many hours do you go between oil changes?

George

souNdguy · Jan 24, 2012

what oil weight are you using , real heavy or??

I live in florida, I've switched all my units to 15w40 C rated oil, except 1.

Since I've got so many tractors.. i don't get tons of hours on each one.. so i do yearly oil changes.

as for dino vs synthetic.. I run dino oil in all my diesel and gas tractors except 1, and in my trucks, i run valvoline 5w40 synthetic ultra blue C rated oil.

the 1 exception I keep mentioning is a 1963 ford 4000 gasser.. I just recently had to go thru the head and top end as I had stuck valves and bent pushrods.

I cleaned it up real good and got her back going.. but found tons of deposits on the intakes....

I went to a 10w30 S rated synthetic oil in that tractor to see what the detergent package does for her. the S rated syn oil was quite a bit cheaper thant he C rated syn oil... and for a gasser.. the S rated syn oil is more than fine.. way better than what was available in 63..

as for adds? I put a lil atf in my gas and oil, plus now use seafoam and stable in all my gassers after that weired fouling on the intakes in that tractor. think i may have had a bad batch of gas that turned and gummed her up perhaps..

soundguy

Dr. Ed · Jan 24, 2012

NAPA and CarQuest filters are WIX and are some of the best filters made. FRAM used to be good but the latest versions are made cheaply, cut one open and look. Fleetguard, Puraltor and Baldwin are all good filters. Where does CNH get their filters? Who knows, they do not make them but buy them at low bid. Put on the number that the book says and you will not have trouble. The engine bearings will hold a film of oil for a long, long time. Pull apart an old engine and the bearings will still have oil in them. Quit worrying about small things that have not been problems and start worrying about the gas in the tank that is turning to varnish while sitting for a few months.

Mike M · Jan 24, 2012

Fram is to be a really cheapo filter ? I can't prove either way. I do know that my 1996 dodge 360 gas builds oil pressure faster with a Fram then the others. I assume it's drain back valve is working better ? or maybe it's just so cheap it offers little resistance ? 190,000 + miles still chugging along.

RodinNS · Jan 24, 2012

CNH has sourced oil filters from FleetGuard for probably 15 years now, exclusively, to the extent that FG has a filter for the application.

Rod

RodinNS · Jan 24, 2012

Use a diesel rated 15W40. No additives or snake oil required. Again, DIESEL RATED, heavy duty oil. If you've got freezing temperatures, then consider a diesel rated 10W30....

Rod

buickanddeere · Jan 24, 2012

There is a Napa filter site where filters are sized via thread, gasket dia, body dia and body length. Also if the filter has an internal relief valve and anti- drain back valve. Very common for equipment to use the wrong filter as most folk never check the manual and just use what ever # they found on there.

Anonymous-0 · Jan 24, 2012

Dr.Ed CNH's Fleetguard filters are made by the Cummin's group.

JMOR · Jan 24, 2012

(quoted from post at 10:07:06 01/24/12) Soundguy, I'm guessing ADB means Anti Drain Back valve, right? Where would I find it? What does it look like? Is it a part of the filter or on the tractor? Are frams better? Oil filters cost less than rebuilding engine, cost is not the issue. The filter I removed, has a black rubber like gasket covering the small holes. Is this the ADB valve?

Thanks,
George

ere is anti-drain back picture:

1452, 51452, 21515, 51515 all have anti-drain back. There are some filters that do not have anti-drain back, but as you can see from the picture, they are easily identifiable. ORIGINALLY, your tractor had the canister/element filter and Ford accomplished the "anti-drain back" with a diaphragm which had a hole/slot above the center of filter, so it would hold oil at that level (a little over half full). The spin on adapter from the CNH parts book page shows a similar hole/slot above the center line of that adapter plate.

Geo-TH,In · Jan 24, 2012

I use 10w-40 year around. Doesn't get that cold in the winter, 20, and I don't put that many hours on the tractor in the winter. In 3 years I may have put 80 hours on the tractor.

Plan to try a different Napa filter I have on the shelf. Going to keep a closer eye on the oil level. I'm guessing the filter holds around a quart. I may measure to be sure. Then I'm adding that much oil over the full mark. If filter leaks back, I'll know by looking at the dip stick.

I think the old filter has been a problem from the get to.

As for the gas, I just filled the tank with a fresh supply of winter blend fuel. Never had a problem over the winter. Keep the tank close to full to keep the condensation out.

When I change oil, I'm going to a quaker state synthetic blend or the cheapest synthetic I can find.

Thanks to all.

George

souNdguy · Jan 24, 2012

go with a cheap full syn.. not a blend.. IMHO..

blends can be almost 0% syn and still called blend.

I did wally mart full syn... been fine so far..

Geo-TH,In · Jan 24, 2012

Rod,
Who sells FleetGuard filers?
George

RodinNS · Jan 24, 2012

Any Cummins dealer. It's actually called 'Cummins Filtration' today, but for a long time it was FleetGuard.

Rod

MarkB_MI · Jan 25, 2012

Motorcraft FL1A. Buy it anywhere.

Oil filter leaks back.

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