hoosierhog
Member
With gas prices predicting to hit 5$ a gallon gas. Is it possible to get a tractor to run on alchol or veggie oil? Also if gas does hit 5 plus per gallon what do you suppose diesel or propane hit.
- Thread starter hoosierhog
- Start date
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Those prices and higher have been around for years in Europe.Simpliest thing to do instead of re-inventing the wheel.They drive less distance with smaller vehicles.The laws of Physics are the same here and there. Alcohol is too $$$ per btu and too aggressive. Electric does 't work as power density per pound is too low . There is no mention in the constitution that joe doe working man can afford to drive a 15mpg vehicle a 100 miles every day.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Those prices and higher have been around for years in Europe.Simpliest thing to do instead of re-inventing the wheel.They drive less distance with smaller vehicles.The laws of Physics are the same here and there. Alcohol is too $$$ per btu and too aggressive. Electric does 't work as power density per pound is too low . There is no mention in the constitution that joe doe working man can afford to drive a 15mpg vehicle a 100 miles every day.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Don't know the details (equipment involved), but one neighbor runs rape seed oil in his tractors and his boy runs discarded cooking oil in his mercedes... Get behind him and it smells like you're chasin a happy meal :roll:
Oils produce cancer causing emmissions. Alcohols are very aggressive and have a low BTU value. How about steam boilers using coal and wood?
Better yet how about natural gas, with all of the Marcellus well drilling, gas should be at rock bottom pricing soon. Technological change--what is that? Hasn't been anything since petroluem came along, therein is the problem.
hoosierhog
Member
i was thinking more about my tractors. and what hay and feed cost would be if we see super high fuel bills. i saw on TV some guys using an moonshine still and ground fallen apples from the neighborhood to make a alcohol fuel and used it in there drag car and to make model rocket fuel. we have lots of fruit trees way way way more than we can eat in a year. can i distill this stuff in a simillar way to power a tractor to eliminate fuel costs and keep my animals despite of future gas prices. i have the hay equipment and a few tractors but with the economy already tanked folks are getting rid of there horses and such already. if fuel goes up more so will feed. im just trying to be sustainable and reduce inputs. just curious if its possible.
thanks
thanks
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Sure it is. I've got two tractors that run just fine on 85% alcohol and 15% gasoline. I'm sure they could be made to run on 100% alcohol with just a few minor tweaks.
hoosierhog
Member
What tractors run on 85 and did you have to make adjustments and if so what.
im glad to know it can be done now im just curious if i can make enough for my needs and what kind if any hp loss i can expect?
thanks
im glad to know it can be done now im just curious if i can make enough for my needs and what kind if any hp loss i can expect?
thanks
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
It does seem to make them a bit more cold-blooded. They require a little more choke to get them started, and a bit more warm up time before you can give them full throttle, but once they are warmed up, I can't tell the difference.
I'm thinking of slightly enlarging the holes in the main metering stem, or just digging through my pile of used carb parts and find a metering stem that has already been modified.
hoosierhog
Member
Awsome I'm rebuilding a 1952 M right now, hmm but I guess I need something with a bit more power and live pto for the baler guess I got another excuse to get another tractor.
Thanks
Thanks
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
The 15% gasoline is mixed with the alcohol so the
engines will have some flammable vapour to start
combustion with.
Alcohol is less aggressive with some gasoline
blended in.
100% alcohol will make starting a cold engine a difficult process. One would have to do the "all-
fuel" tractor things. Start on gasoline and switch
to the alternate fuel.
engines will have some flammable vapour to start
combustion with.
Alcohol is less aggressive with some gasoline
blended in.
100% alcohol will make starting a cold engine a difficult process. One would have to do the "all-
fuel" tractor things. Start on gasoline and switch
to the alternate fuel.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
wvo is in limited supply.wvo also gells at
fall,winter and spring temps.
fall,winter and spring temps.
Nate V. IA
Member
If more people would drive the correct vehicle for the job the gas price would be half what it is now.
90% of the traffic past my house is 1 ton diesels, 90% of the time they aren't pulling/hauling anything.
Most of neighbors don't even own a fuel efficient vehicle, its a free country, drive what you want, but for your grandkids sake you should preserve as much energy as possible.
This is the pot calling the kettle black, I waste fuel too, most everybody does, some more than others.
Nate
90% of the traffic past my house is 1 ton diesels, 90% of the time they aren't pulling/hauling anything.
Most of neighbors don't even own a fuel efficient vehicle, its a free country, drive what you want, but for your grandkids sake you should preserve as much energy as possible.
This is the pot calling the kettle black, I waste fuel too, most everybody does, some more than others.
Nate
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
You know if we could shut up the news media, we might to enjoy a reasonable life style/life.
Their whole tactic is to keep you in a state of fear causing you to do things that you wouldn't ordinarily do.....spend money.
Got a suggestion. When you and the Mrs. sit down to supper tonight, rather than tune in the TV crap, get a couple of candles, light them, turn the lights off and put on some Celtic "elevator" music. Sit next to her rather than across from her and deliberately bump her leg with yours while you are eating. Handle the reaction as you choose. Life will not be the same.
Mark
Their whole tactic is to keep you in a state of fear causing you to do things that you wouldn't ordinarily do.....spend money.
Got a suggestion. When you and the Mrs. sit down to supper tonight, rather than tune in the TV crap, get a couple of candles, light them, turn the lights off and put on some Celtic "elevator" music. Sit next to her rather than across from her and deliberately bump her leg with yours while you are eating. Handle the reaction as you choose. Life will not be the same.
Mark
Convert your tractor to run on wood-fire-gas like was done during WWII in many places. You can do it with a car also, as long as it has a low compression engine and a carb.
If more people started using alcohol or vegetable oil - where would it come from? If mass produced, it will come from agriculture that will use petro oil to run the tractors, make the herbicides and fertilizers, and deliver the products. In the end, it would be a more inefficient use of the oil (as ethanol is already).
The reality is there are many things with a finite supply that society keeps using more and more of. I keep hearing about cars and trucks - but what about frivolous air travel? That industry wastes an amazing amount of oil and sends pollutants directly into our upper atmosphere.
On the subject of "finite supply" . . . what about our economy? I keep hearing it has to grow X amount every year or we're doomed. Hmmm. Last I checked the world has a fixed sized and no economy can grow forever. Seems if we were truly smart we'd try to come up with plan of sustainability - not constant growth and a constantly growing demand for everything.
If more people started using alcohol or vegetable oil - where would it come from? If mass produced, it will come from agriculture that will use petro oil to run the tractors, make the herbicides and fertilizers, and deliver the products. In the end, it would be a more inefficient use of the oil (as ethanol is already).
The reality is there are many things with a finite supply that society keeps using more and more of. I keep hearing about cars and trucks - but what about frivolous air travel? That industry wastes an amazing amount of oil and sends pollutants directly into our upper atmosphere.
On the subject of "finite supply" . . . what about our economy? I keep hearing it has to grow X amount every year or we're doomed. Hmmm. Last I checked the world has a fixed sized and no economy can grow forever. Seems if we were truly smart we'd try to come up with plan of sustainability - not constant growth and a constantly growing demand for everything.
heavyhaulertoo
Member
They put gas in at the corn plants so you want drink it ha!!
Janicholson
Well-known Member
I could not agree more. I do not think there is any good reason to avoid reality. Jim
Both pure ethanol in gas and pure veggie oil in diesels need heaters and different jetting/ fuel mix to work in anything ubnder 80 degrees.
Ethanol would work much better in an engine designed for high compression, while our old tractors are lower than average compression.
Both work tho, with a little effort.
European New Holland tractors are certified to run on pure veggie diesel fuel - at least some models. Lots of Cummings Doge folks have after market setups to make a pickup work. Much aftermarket work on VW diesels as well.
Back in the 1980's I went to the local college, they were running a Farmall tractor and several vehicles on 100% ethanol, including winter here in MN - put a shroud over the muffler and drew the air intake from there to heat it up, made water jacket block to curculate coolant around the carb venturee area.
Was very intersting. We toured the still as well, made from an NH3 tank as the cooker.
--->Paul
Ethanol would work much better in an engine designed for high compression, while our old tractors are lower than average compression.
Both work tho, with a little effort.
European New Holland tractors are certified to run on pure veggie diesel fuel - at least some models. Lots of Cummings Doge folks have after market setups to make a pickup work. Much aftermarket work on VW diesels as well.
Back in the 1980's I went to the local college, they were running a Farmall tractor and several vehicles on 100% ethanol, including winter here in MN - put a shroud over the muffler and drew the air intake from there to heat it up, made water jacket block to curculate coolant around the carb venturee area.
Was very intersting. We toured the still as well, made from an NH3 tank as the cooker.
--->Paul
Brad Buchanan
Member
Perhaps the salient point is: No where in the Constitution does is say that he can't.
Zachary Hoyt
Well-known Member
It is nice to see that there are other people who also think that infinite growth is impossible. I was listening to Car Talk last Saturday out in the shed and they were talking about wood-gasification for motor vehicles. It made me wonder abut how hard it would be to run a tractor that way. We have lots of wood, and it would be a handy thing. We have a wood gasification boiler that heats the building and hot water here so I have some familiarity with the process, but there are a lot of practical aspects to figure out how to make the technology portable.
Zach
Zach
Cars, trucks and tractors can run on compressed natural gas, and this country has so dam much natural gas the price is projected to drop to $2 or below in the coming year. The U.S. and Canada have a 200-year supply of this clean fuel that requires no refinery, yet people are trying to figure out how to make their cars run on bacon drippings. Sheesh.
A lot of farming was done with wood-gas fired tractors in Europe during WWII. Who knows - it might become necessary here in North America someday?
I've got a 10,000 watt generator set up to run on wood gas but never got around to trying to make a car or tractor run on it - yet.
I suspect now adays many people don't even have any gas engine cars with carbs and low compression engines to fool with.
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I've got a 10,000 watt generator set up to run on wood gas but never got around to trying to make a car or tractor run on it - yet.
I suspect now adays many people don't even have any gas engine cars with carbs and low compression engines to fool with.
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Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Our government does not have time to develop an alternative energy policy. We sent them to D.C. to work on critical issues like stopping Guy marriage, changing the abortion laws, green energy solar collector pipe dreams and stopping honest, common sense banking regulations. Congress arguing about the debt ceiling is like you refusing to pay your wifes credit card bills. Makes you feel tough but in the end plays havoc with your family's credit rating.
Lets not drag congress off course by expecting that bunch of clowns to try to do something visionary, rational or good for the future of our country.
You should think about that the next time your preacher wants you to support some half baked moral issue that should be # 17 on America's priority list.
Lets not drag congress off course by expecting that bunch of clowns to try to do something visionary, rational or good for the future of our country.
You should think about that the next time your preacher wants you to support some half baked moral issue that should be # 17 on America's priority list.
Pale Rider
Member
Sounds much as if your sense of "right" and "wrong" is defined strickly along a dollars and cents standard. I don't think much of it.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
The EPA would never let wood smoke power get a footing. I look for them to make me stop using a wood stove to heat my house.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I hear a lot of whining from people with $12-$15 hr incomes. Upset that they can not afford a. Boat, four wheeler and a 15mpg vehicle that burns $5+ fuel , 500 miles every week . What do they expect? They already live with luxuries and services. O king could have just a few years ago.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
For such a small market it's too much $$$ for manufactures to design , inventory, crash test and emissione certify LP or NG vehicles.
smallercrawler
Member
LJD-interesting pix. PBS show "Car Talk" just had a discussion on WWII woodgas vehicles; no one there apparently understood the concept so they ended up with a PHD (?) chemist explaining it.
IIRC several early 1900s cities/industrial plants used similar for lighting/power, ie: cokegas/producergas/woodgas/coalgas. Continental engine setup for propane/natural gas might be a good starting point for experimentation?
IIRC several early 1900s cities/industrial plants used similar for lighting/power, ie: cokegas/producergas/woodgas/coalgas. Continental engine setup for propane/natural gas might be a good starting point for experimentation?
A jet airliner uses 3500 gallons of fuel per hour.My furnace will run for 5 years on that amount of fuel.There is too much frivolous use of oil, snowmobiles, atv, giant motor homes.Boats running 50 60 mph.Trucks hauling potatoes from CA to Maine,We have plenty of potatoes in Maine.I grow my own using a 6 hp tiller. Our oil supply can be compared to a bottle of Jim Beam bourbon in the cupboard that soon will be empty.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
There's the problem. You need to drink Crown Royal instead of Jim Bean.
Big problem with "alternative fuels" if that like with the corn furnaces, as the cost of the traditional stuff goes up the demand for the other drives that up. I know a lot of people who thought that corn would never see 5 bucks a bussel who got corn burners and are now crying over the price of corn. Funny part is that the guys who put them in could afford to at the time while the people who really could have used a little lower cost for heating could not afford them.
Rick
Rick
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