4230 power loss

gw1 · Jan 7, 2012

I have been working on a 4230 JD that runs perfectly until it reaches operating temperature (approx. 185-190 degrees F.) tractor then starts losing power and pouring black smoke like it is straining. We have replaced the injection pump three times, we have replaced injectors, we have removed the pipe from the intake manifold(non turbo tractor), we have removed the muffler, adjusted valves, there is no binding in the drive train, engine, or hydraulics as it will roll easily to a stop and you can throttle back and engine runs perfectly, we can cut it off and will start right back. Let it cool a few minutes and it will run perfectly until temperature again reaches the 185-190 degree mark. This one has me stumped! We need help badly on this one! Thanks!

Lumpie · Jan 7, 2012

First quick question. Have you changed the fuel filters?

NY 986 · Jan 7, 2012

Fuel filters? Air elements? Remote chance something up with a piston and/or sleeve? You should post over on the JD board here as I don't know how much the regular posters there venture out to the other boards.

showcrop · Jan 7, 2012

How about timing, have you checked that?

VicS · Jan 7, 2012

Our 4010 did something like this, the main oil pressure spring stuck. If I remember right it had about 350 lb of oil pressure. Swelled the can in the oil pan, had to use a torch to get the pan off. also wore the cam gears bad, had to put a new cam in. I would think it would blow your oil filter off, or at least swell it. check your oil pressure. Just a thought Vic

BushogPapa · Jan 7, 2012

If it still labors with ALL Loads removed ( clutches released,Hydraulics shut off, PTO, etc..then I would look into any and all EPA mandated systems that could be included in the later pumps..
Perhaps a Sensor needs attention..??
This is not my field, but this IS going to be more and more of a problem..
I would not think pump timing would be your problem...you sound experienced with the installation..

Ron..

aFORDable · Jan 7, 2012

This is a long shot but I had a similar experience once on a tractor and the fuel heater was staying engaged (non-electrical--ran off the battery). The 4230 likely has a 110 plug heater which obviously wouldn"t be the case.

Unruh · Jan 7, 2012

My brand new 4230 (back then) smoked from new. I don't remember that it lost power though. It still smoked when I traded it for a 4240, which didn't.

teddy52food · Jan 7, 2012

Has it been overhauled recently? Pistons too tight?

buickanddeere · Jan 7, 2012

EPA and sensor concerns on a 4230 ? Are you kidding ?

buickanddeere · Jan 7, 2012

This tractor probably has some history that the owner doesn't know or doesn't want to admitt. There is something either binding as metal expands. Or a crack is opening , maybe a gasket starting to seep. Using. Using a real dunk or the seat of the pants? Try loading the tractor while running it without the exhaust manifold to narrow down 1 or 2 guilty cylinders or all cylinders. Has anybody ran an oil sample which is normal diagnostics for such problems.

Tx Jim · Jan 7, 2012

(quoted from post at 12:10:03 01/07/12) There is something either binding as metal expands

b&d
We don't agree often but I'm with you on this one. Galled piston or possibly bad rod/main brg.

LJD · Jan 7, 2012

Power Shift of Synchro Range? When it starts to labor, does pushing in the clutch make any difference?

Black smoke and losing RPMs means something is binding. I've heard many with spun engine bearings to that - but if that were the case - the engine wold blow or seize pretty soon. Main bearings can behave like brake-bands - especially if there is any coolant getting into the oil. Warped/dragging clutches in a Power Shift can also cause those symptoms.

rrlund · Jan 7, 2012

I spun a main in a 4040 once. That one only bogged down once. Seized right up with a squeek. When it cooled down,it started back up,but the bearing spun all the way around in the block and ran again. Not that I tried using it that way. It might have bogged again if I'd tried. Usually a spun bearing will weld itself right to the crank,so once it started spinning in the block,I suppose maybe it could expand and stick it again,but I'd have trouble believing it would do it very many times before it ground enough metal away that it wouldn't do it anymore.

LJD · Jan 7, 2012

Yes, that's been my experience also. I did have one Deere 450 that would run good at first, then start to labor at high RPMs like someone was putting the brakes on. Did that for almost a week and then - spun a few mains and seized. Bearings were almost soldered to the main-journals. Scrapped off the metal, and cleaned the journals with emory cloth. Got some .002" undersized bearings from Deere and slapped it back together. That was 15 years ago and it's still running fine.

donol60 · Jan 7, 2012

make sure fuel return line is not plugged or bent shut

pete 23 · Jan 7, 2012

We had one in the shop few years ago, labored like pulling a plow. Put about 30 hp on dyno. Injection pump was sent in, same results. Mechanic called pump shop, guy mused for a while, said he had seen where a drunk had over filled the transmission causing excess oil in clutch housing. Mechanic pulls dip stick, way over full, drains down to proper level. Problem solved. (this owner was also a drunk so that fit in real good). Quad range of course.

dieseldoc · Jan 7, 2012

Its junk. I will give you 2500 cash for it. Let me know when I can pick it up. Joking aside we need more info so we can tell you whats wrong.

rrlund · Jan 7, 2012

Reading that over and over,it almost sounds like it has to be timing. Firing too soon. I'm not familiar with what goes on inside those pumps,but is there an advance of some kind in them?
Can't be a bearing if it rolls to a stop and runs good when you throttle back. Just sounds like timing is too advanced when it reaches operating temp at full throttle,simple as that.

LJD · Jan 7, 2012

I don't think it's mechanically possible to over-advance timing at high RPMs. Not unless someone unbolted the pump and moved the entire housing . . . and then it would be advanced all the time. Not just when hot.

The timing advance works by a hydraulic piston moving the cam ring. It can go just X amount of distance and then metal hits metal. That is at full advance for high RPMs and it cannot go any further. It can malfunction and make the engine run too retarded at high speeds - but not too advanced. If it was too retarded it would skip and start breaking up. Not run smooth, labor and blow black smoke.

JOHNNYfromMI · Jan 7, 2012

Remove the oil filter and cut it open, check for particles if that don't show anyting have a oil sample run, sound like internal damage.

larryanderson · Jan 7, 2012

I am assuming it is not your tractor and you are trying to diagnose the problem.My thoughts are if you have checked pump,timing ,etc.it is an internal engine problem and probably will show you exactly the problem area if ran much more.Checking the bearings would be a place to start them work your way up.

yallardeere · Jan 8, 2012

you have replaced pump 3 times....are the pumps rebuilt..if so from the same place?

Anonymous-0 · Feb 27, 2012

Our mechanic had a customer with an AC 185 that developed same symptoms, he had used a low or non-detergnt oil, replaced oil (used Mobil Delvac) and filter, tractor ran as should after that.

4230 power loss

New User

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads