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Intruder shooting re visited.

L

Lou from Wi.

Well-known Member
I haven't been posting, been working with new 380 auto. Been reading the reply's concerning the lady shooting the crazy's.Good thing she didn't try what Chevytahoe 5674 suggested to me "Shout Stop I'm armed yatta yatta yatta, to the intruders before I fired on em. Other fool hardy remarks sent by Bret 4207 that He drooped more hammers on people then I ever will have. I 'll bet you read all the posts on "well we made it to the 21st century" Neither one of the guys I mentioned posted their objection to the lady's remedy to home intruders.Just interesting observations. Back to the firing range. LOU.
 
Thinkin she filled her hand with correct weapon. Nuff said. Not a big 380 fan over a rooms length.
 
New castle doctrine went into effect Dec 1/2011 in North Carolina that says: The lawful occupant of a home, motor vehicle, or work place isn't required to retreat before using deadly force. I picked up my concealed carry permit from the sheriffs office Monday. Concealed carry permit requests are up in NC.
 
That's why spending 1,000's is so over rated. That looks like a Stevens Riverside, like? 35 bucks out of a Sears catalog??... but it obviously did the job 60 or 70 years later.... I was hoping her other firearm was a Webley MK IV.... but a mere Ruger blackhawk .... oh well... maybe one for her 19th birthday....
 
Have a little Dueschwerke .380 my dad took off a German in WWII. It was 'disabled' in a vise! Local gunsmith got it freed up, I found a new firing pin and springs on the internet last year and got it popping again after 65 years. Piece was built in late '20. Still shoots good, too.
 
I was right proud of her myself!I thought she done a good job of work, and used the right tool! Nothing like training women to use tools. Maybe her late husband, or her Dad trained her!I need to get me a 12 ga pump gun again. my home defence tool, is a super blackhawk in 44, and may pass thru all walls in a home. Not too good if anyone is using the guest room.
 
I believe the lady did the right thing shooting the intruder. I'm worry though about her conduct after the fact, her attitude and posing for the camera with the shotgun. I'm afraid she's setting herself up for a civil suit from the intruders family.
 
Didn't read the other thread about her because I haven't been on here very much lately. But LOU why is it good she didn't warn then first? Would the outcome have changed? (possible but nobody knows).

I never said I was against shooting an intruder, but I'm going to warn them before I shoot (that way I can show that I tried all my options before killing). So that if that day comes I don't have to spend the rest of my days in jail because some stupid prosecutor had his heart set on making an example out of me.
 
Lou, you are a likeable guy when you're talking about crawlers, but you're an insulting blowhard when you think someone has dissed you. I spent over 20 years as a State Trooper Lou. Do you really want to argue over my qualifications for my opinion or my experience in shoot/don't shoot situations? What I told you was that "dropping the hammer", as you put it, is not something to be taken lightly and that you need to do everything you can to avoid that. Your attitude of "I'm a gonna kill me some bad guys" is ignorant and misguided. Your response to any alternative ideas is childish. I hope you never have to defend your home or family and if you do I hope you get a really, really good lawyer because there's a good chance everything you've written here about how anxious you are to "drop the hammer" will be found and presented to the jury.
 
Man...these boys get a bit chippy around here don't they? We are all entitled to our own opinions on this board. I think we all agree that the intruder "had it coming" if you will. I'd be more impressed if some of these boys could check their testicles and bravado at the door when stating an opinion. I don't think any conversation has a place for conveying an idea in a condescending matter. Let's play nice now.
 
I've been reading some of the posts on this. Kinda makes me wonder if any of you really have felt the feeling deep down in the pit of your stomach when you've dropped the hammer and realized that you've killed someone. It's not a good feeling at all. Doesn't make any difference what the circumstances were before the trigger was pulled, you can't take it back and you'll never be the same after. Yes, I'd do it again to defend my loved ones, but pray to God I'll never have to. So THINK before you act. Just my thoughts, Keith
 
I agree Keith, it's not something to be taken lightly at all. People need to think this through. I'm in no way advocating becoming a victim, but shooting someone is one of those things you don't just walk away from.
 
Just my opinion, but when I think how I would feel if the intruder got to and hurt my family if I could of done something about it, I know I would do the same thing as she did. If an intruder gets in my house with a weapon, he's dead if I have the chance. Sure I will feel bad about it afterward, but I would feel worse if he hurt or killed my family.

slim
 
Lou, the big problem is that some prosecuters don't like the laws that allow a person to defend themselves and will do everything possible to get a conviction. Many documented cases of it. And they will use anything and everything to gain a conviction if possible. Hand loads, magnums, Hollow points, comments on the internet all to prove that the shooter is a mall ranger who was just waiting for a chance to shoot someone. One of the ways to prevent that is to stay connected to the 911 operator (it's all recorded) and announce loudly at least twice to the intruder that you have a firearm and will shoot them. Another is to fire twice. Once can be taken as crack shot who could have just wounded the perp by shooting them in the leg and more than 2 can be painted to a jury as a kill happy person who kept shooting cause they wanted to "put a notch" in thier gun.

I have a gun and will shoot, I have a gun and will shoot, bang, bang, is all it takes. And the 911 tape will back you up in court if need be.


Rick
 
(quoted from post at 07:42:57 01/06/12) Lou, the big problem is that some prosecuters don't like the laws...
Click to expand...

Bingo. There are prosecutors out there that don't press charges based on the laws as written, they do it by how they feel.... And I for one want all my ducks in a row when I have to face off against him in a court of law.
 
Rick.being tolerant of those who intend to hurt /rob/what ever,is not my intention. Getch lost all his tolerance when he took care of the subway robbers. No jury found him guilty of murder. That was the right verdict. Same as what he lady did to the knife wheeling fool who forcibly entered her home with evil on his mind.
When one awakens from a deep sleep to hear the door breaking down and see the criminal standing over the wife and kiddies with a weapon,leaves NO TIME TO DIAL UP 911.Cant talk the criminal to set down and wait till ya call and let the operator know your being threatened.The lady did have the right answer to the time sequence. Was the Right thing to do. Operator was right to her opinion also.Like I've stated, there will be no warning given to those who intend to hurt, kill etc me or my family members. I dont sleep with a phone at the ready but do sleep with the weapon loaded on the night stand. You may be afraid to fire with out the shout "I'M armed, I'll shoot" into the phone with the 911 operator for fear that you will be prosecuted by an over zealous district attorney.No one in their right mind would take the chance of being MR Nice guy to the criminal who has violated the home and threatened /or acted out violence against you or your family members. I Like this saying. "I carry a gun, because a cop is to heavy" Ever hear the saying?'Time is of the essence"? Being afraid of the consequences of fatal wounding of a criminal who threatens me or mine ,is not ,I repeat is NOT a deterant for me to hold fire when confronted with a fool who kicks down my door deliberately and intends to rob/kill etc me or my family.Criminals SHOULDN'T BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.Most will agree. That said, I came in for another clip of ammo.Practice makes perfect. I always say.You can set the perp down for coffee and conversation ,if thats what you want, buttt don't expect me to be that generous. NON TOLERANT ,LOU
 
What happens if you don't have the time to set your duckies all in a row. You might try and place signs like Berma shave did along your drive way "If you came to rob me.
better be prepaired
to shake your makers hand
and leave this world post haste,
The holes I'm gonna leave in you is
not for lettin in extra air
but for the undertakers lively hood
and grace. Shake spear. LOU.
 
Slim Great reply. Trying to fine the time to call 911 is NOT always an option. No one wants to delibertly wish to take a life, buttttttttttt when push comes to shove. It may become necessary. I Will do the deed but with No reluctance, Not looking for trouble, but will defend me and mine to the end.Common sense dictates, putting your life and your family's lives in a safe haven are the most important thing when confronted by those who have no mercy on you or your family. Regards LOU
 
Directing traffic. parking meter duty,writing speeding tickets are non life threating( in most cases) so I'm not really impressed at all. Have a goodun. LOU.
 
Are you saying it's wise to forcibly stop an intruder or not? We have members of the law enforcement community that say the only thing to do is dial 911 and wait.
 
B+D- You do what you have to do if the situation warrants it. If that means you have no choice but to shoot, then you had no choice. But you better be darn sure that it's your only choice in the situation. That doesn't mean you have to run away or cower in a corner, unless you live someplace that has laws saying you can't defend yourself, and even then, if the choice is life or death? You do what you have to.

My posts were in reaction to Lous apparent disregard for the realities of the aftermath of a shooting. (And his childish insults) It's not fun, at all. Some people seem to think it will make them some sort of hero or something, others seem to think their judgment is infallible and won't be questioned. I can assure you everything will be questioned. So in the unlikely event you are forced to make this decision I will give you the same advice I gave Lou that got him so mad- It only takes a second to announce that you have a gun and for the BG to leave or stop or something. If there's no time, fine, just be prepared to articulate that. For Gods sake though, do NOT listen to the idiots that tell you to "drag him into the house" or to shoot a few holes in the walls from the BGs gun or to put a knife in his hands or something stupid like that. I've heard keyboard commandos give advice like that a million times. News flash- cops aren't stupid. You alter the evidence and things aren't going to add up and next thing you know you took a bad situation and made it into a nightmare.

I sincerely hope no one ever has to make this choice.
 
I've gone back through the posts Lou and no one said anything about not defending your family or home. What was said was being smart and realistic about things was the wiser choice. This all started because I told you that shouting a warning to the BG if you had time was the right thing to do. Your take was that I had somehow insulted you and you went downhill from there. If there's no time, then that's all there is to it. If there is or if there are other options you choose not to consider then the burden may be in you to defend your actions. All the bravado and John Wayne talk in the world isn't going to help you then.

Just use your head is what I'm saying.
 
My two cents is this. I draw the line between those (like me) that dread shooting anybody - even a criminal, and those that look forward to it. If you just can't wait for somebody to break into your place so you can blow them away, something is wrong with you. I hope I'm not addressing anybody in this forum.
 
I just hope it's the kind of mess a person can avoid. A no win situation.
Too many times afterwards with plenty of time, all the facts and no personal pressure or personal peril. I've seen some poor snuck who had done the best they could. Get slammed by the law enforcement community for defending themselves.
The individual defending them selves are In more legal trouble than the criminal that started the incident.Or worse yet dead or crippled emotionally and physically.
After seeing and hearing some of the outrages commuted by the legal community during the G20 summit in Toronto. Plus all the stories in the paper of innocent folk charged after a coroner like Dr.Smith falsely accused innocent parents. Plenty of stories of crooked cops charged in the news too. And that is just the incidents that are made public.
At times I wonder if people should be almost as scared of the law as the criminals?
 

I dunno B+D, I could tell you a few stories about people making stuff up about me or some guys I worked with for either sympathy from their pals or to try and get some sort of legal lever to work or a settlement of some kind. It goes both ways. It's just a reflection of our society.
 
Lou not afraid to defend myself or my family. I have watched many cases unfold where a prosecutors who cares little for the laws thinks that any civilian taking the law into their own hands is wrong. They will try any means available to charge someone who was legally defending themselves or their families to prove their point and scare others into waiting for John Law. They will use internet post, hand loads, large caliber, assult weapons and anything else available to secure a conviction. Not only will a person have to live with the fact that they killed someone but face legal proceedings and lawyer cost to stay out of jail. A simple, time permitting 911 call left open can be great evidence that you did everything possible to keep from having to use deadly force. Few prosecuters would be willing to face off in court the 911 tape of that young woman. She called, she ask for options, she did everything reasonable to avoid having to pull that trigger.

As far as responce time for the cops, that can happen in my area. 3AM and 2 county officers on duty, a 3rd, state Trooper is covering 3 counties. One is working a TA, another a DUI and the 3rd a domestic. Going to take a while for em to get to me. I could well be in her shoes. Granted if you wake to someone in your bedroom you don't have the time but you can't count on the DA saying it was justified.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 18:01:26 01/06/12)...if you wake to someone in your bedroom....
Click to expand...

That comes down to situational awareness, you should never let somebody get that close undetected. Be it motion lights, alarm, dog, loud opening door, window breaking, etc; something should be waking you up/alerting you to the presence of somebody who doesn't belong so that you have at least a few seconds to prepare, have the wife call 911 and you get ready to defend.
 
No Clue? How could I? You ate all the donuts!!!
Sounds like your more afraid of the law then the criminals.My replys may sound childish, but not so badly as your resistance to protecting you and yours UNTIL YOU HAVE THE PHONE IN HAND AND BEGGING 911 To Hold your hand cause your afraid to shoot the criminals who entered your home illegally for the purpose of robery and murder.So glad I'm not a member of your family ,relying on your reluctance to fire on the intruders ,until I'm laying in a pool of my blood ,dying with frustration and multiple wounds.I'll take my chances with a jury, THank you. Best believe I'm not sending out inviations to break into my home so I'll have a reason to shoot and kil intruders. Thats B.S. Best advice is "CALL BEFORE COMMING! What happens if there is no wife to make a 911 call? LOU.
 
Ya gotta get real.A few seconds isn't enough, comes down to- DO I GRAB THE PHONE OR DO I GRAB THE GUN? Which gets rid of the intruder faster. Don't you just hate it when the phone is answered by "Please stay on the line.-Your call is important to us" or even worse in your hurry you dial 411 and get directory assistance? As for motion detectors, do you have them wired into every room of your house, should be fun when going to the bathroom at night, or the family pet activates them. Most alarms are easily bypassed or won't be answered by Joe blow who's more interested in catching his zz's rather than watching the screen for lights tripping hourly because some one forgot to enter their code after returning to their own home. Question? Are you a sound sleeper?? Hard of hearing? or just plain tired after a hard days work? Gotta go re-load some more protection/ lol. LOU.
 
Lou I'm just saying if you have time that simple phone call can save a lot of trouble. I wake up with someone in my bedroom HE better call 911, don't ask for the cops, ask for the EMT's, cops are going to be way too late.

But time permitting I'm calling first. It may not be right that some prosecutors are charging people based on personal beliefs and not the letter of the law but it is happening. That call that girl made not only proves she tried to avoid shooting but also that she had no choice. Didn't take the cops very long to determine that she did nothing wrong. Without that tap they would still be investigating for God knows how long giving her no closure until they are done.

Retired cop here says everyone should have a small barky dog that will wake them if someone tries to break in. I guess that's one soultion to waking up with someone at the foot of your bed or still outside trying to get in.

Rick
 
Well all I'm saying is most times there is no time to do any thing else but to fire. Sure as hell having to live with the idea of killing another human being isn't something I want to live through butttttttttttt rest assured I will grin and bear it if removing the threat is whats required.I'll save any member of my family the suffering and hurt that a criminal inflects on one of mine.Like I've stated that any criminal wasn't invited to my home for rape and pillage. Death awaits em that try's.I don't go looking for trouble but at some time or another it just may happen. Not looking forward to that kind of experience,but not afraid of it either. LOU.
 
Don't need motion detectors in every room or an alarm that is answered by anybody. You need something that will wake/alert YOU to somebody elses presence around your home. Could be a bell above your door like many small retail shops have, or a yippy dog. If somebody can get into your house undetected and make it to your bedroom without YOU noticing then YOU need to beef up your security measures. This gives you time for target/threat identification, because for all you know that "intruder" in your house could be your child/grandchild/great grandchild or their friend sneaking in/out.

If you awake the moment somebody TRIES to enter your home then there should be plenty of time to at least dial 911 and leave the line open while you prepare to defend yourself and identify your target.

Loud you take things to the extreme. I wouldn't let somebody murder my family just because I couldn't reach 911. But I'm going to do my darnest to do everything I can to make sure that I stay out of Jail, so if I have 2 extra seconds I'll dial 911.

And I'm done posting on topics like this with you Lou, because it really sounds like you just want an excuse to pull the trigger on somebody. Hopefully its a bad guy and not a friendly target you "drop the hammer on".
 

Hey Lou, put the bottle down and re-read what I wrote numerous times- I never said call 911, did I? All I said is that a warning is the smart way to do it. So stop the childish rants and try reading what I wrote.
 
Hard to keep on track????What is your suggestion when confronted with a stranger kicking in your door? Invite him in for a coffee clutch?? Reasonable people do resonable things. Being afraid of the results in firing on the perp has you at a real dis advantage in the real world.
Your opinion of me and my post (as a maninacal idiot) doesnt quie cut the mustard, especially when other agree with my assesment of like situations. Does their like opinion make them a manicial idoit? Ill bet you would set the perp down, join hands and sing combiya (sp) while his pardner does un-speakable acts to your family? I also believe (from your responsees) that you would be delighted to replace the door and frame to your hovel as many times as the perps break in.I can only say I hope the perps run away from our stern messages so you don't need to fire on em. Dope addicts really listen and obey such orders.They have the presents of mind to do as you command. Get real pal!!! LOU
 
Nope you didn't say cal 911, but just who in the hell is going to swear you hollerad any warning? No 911 phone connection, just the wife swearing you did holler,(not believable in court) wife always testifies that her spouce did such and such so he could escape prosicution . What if your alone in the house. Who will swear you gave out any warning??You just gotta get real. LOU.
 
Your assesment of my intentions(as a happy trigger fool)is incorrect. Dropping the hammer is of your making more then mine.One thing(most important) is I NEVER SENT OUT ANY INVITATION TO THOSE WHO PLOT EVIL ACTS AGAINST ME OR MY FAMILY. I say again, enter into my home in this fashion, is at your own risk.Those who truly know me , knows I don't play games when it comes to protecting me and mine.The B&E is going on now as I post. Shootings are still going on against innocent people in their homes, cars, walking with their children and puppy etc. I say to you, "Do as you wish but never try to persuade me to be so tolerant with criminals as you seem to be.I do hope you will Never have any such misfortune to encounter criminals in your home, auto, workplace etc. Thank our governor for signing the CCP act with the addition of the castle laws. I'm thankfull we finally got to join the 21 st century. LOU,
 
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