Roller Chain Assembly

Billy NY

Well-known Member
Y'all may remember, end of last winter, was repairing this old Loftness 661DTS 3 pt snowblower. Drive sprocket, idler are new, so is the #60 chain. I had the idler as shown in an attempt to resolve a problem, hence my next question. (note idler has been put back on top where its supposed to be)

With all the people on here, who have dealt with so many kinds of equipment, machinery and so on, what would cause the top part of the roller chain to bounce excessively, it hits the top of the slot it goes through, (I could grind more out, but does not solve the problem) I cannot for the life of me figure out why so much bounce, there is not room for much tension here, and would take excess causing accelerated wear to tighten it so it would stop, what gives, anyone ever deal with something like it, thing just ripples, bounces etc.

A little history on it; last winter, my father being a tad careless, told the hired hand to just put a pin in the top link, not what was supposed to be in there, he's out running the tractor, you guessed it, top link lets go, blower falls from raised up position on the auger, knocks the auger out of bearing on one side, chain and 2 sprockets were about done anyway.

Installed those sprockets, idler and drive, not the one on the auger shaft, aligned and shimmed same so the chain runs straight, did have to release those lock collars and use a sledge, to get that auger sprocket straight with the rest, was off a little so I shifted it over with the sledge Runs straight, sets in the sprocket teeth almost center with a little space each side, might be off a hair, shaft was not moving any further, its not pulling or favoring one side, so with everything reasonably straight, tension applied, what could it be, auger sprocket, slightly off or something, I've not been able to see what causes this. It runs but that chain is going to take a beating, was soaked with chain lube too.


Loftness661DTS011.jpg


This photo shows it before I moved that shaft and centered it better, looks straight by eye now.

Loftness661DTS010.jpg


Drive sprocket from gearbox shaft

Loftness661DTS009.jpg
 
It is possible that the chain and sprockets are supposedly #50 or #60 (whichever) and are actually not made to exact specs even though they are new. Same as worn chain or sprocket trying to match a new chain or sprocket. Just guessing, it looks like you should not be having any problems. Wayne
 
It's hard to tell from hear, but it look's alittle tight. You should be able to lift chain maybe one to two inch's in that 3 foot span.
 
Chain whip over that distance is not uncommon. Put a trflon guide on the top of the hole to dampen the motion. just run it parallel for 5 inches or so. Jim
 
If I am looking at this correctly you have the idler on the drive side of the chain not on the slack side, that would account for the chain whip.
 
PTO slip joint assembled wrong so the U joints are 90 degrees out of phase, or joint angles not equal at working position ??
 
I suspect you have a bent shaft, roll the shaft by hand and see if the chain gets tight for part of a rotation and then loose. It wouldn't take much of a bend to cause the chain to go crazy when it is running.
 
Looking at the auger sweep... I would say that you have the tensioner on the drive side when it should be on the return side... but I could be wrong. Just check it and make sure it's on the return.
Beyond that... the driven sprocket on the auger is basically worn out... so that doesn't help. There may also be a slight bend in the auger or the sprocket is not properly centered on the shaft. That may not be a big deal. A little bit of lope won't hurt it as long as you leave slack enough there and it will stay on the sprockets. A new driven will help to that end...

Rod
 
I have a very similar blower (Lundell) it uses a sping loaded tightener to assist in that chain bounce. For best performance we found using 60H chain greatly helps in handling the high shock loads. Those rotors aren't even designed for balance so driveline vibration is just the nature of the machines. That chain runs in snow so don't expect any lube to last more than a few seconds. Do lubricate it when you are done each time or that chain will be very stiff to start.
 
Hard to see if there are some vibration, could be par for the course, I noticed its a waste of oil spraying it before, snow does the job, stays shined up when it stays cold, spray when done for the season, or anytime it could rust when not in use.
 
I switched the tensioner back, its not as shown in the photo, did that to see if any improvement, same thing actually, that sprocket looked ok, but without measuring say the root, teeth dont seem to come to a point, however the others are new, will take another look, sure wont hurt to put a new one on though :)
 
Could be, but it does seem to run smooth, no wobble at all, and I think I might have mis-stated what happened above, the bearing came out of the race, the shaft I don't think came out of the bearing it moved a little and I reset it where the paint ended on it, kinda where it was, will have to recheck though.
 
Its now on top, tried on the bottom, same thing, found the mark where the washer was before and set it back on the return side.
 
PTO shaft, coupler all cleaned, greased, and not at any abnormal angle, straight shaft comes off the gear box ant a 90 with a shear flange as shown in the photo above, (small sprocket).
 
Worst case or if after checking/doing above, I would try that, what its doing does not seem all that bad, annoying to hear it hit the top of the slot in the housing, might wear the chain link, though they ought to be harder.
 
Will have to see if it will loosen, might be where the old mark was and new chain 2 sprockets.
 
Well, given that the auger sprocket appears ok, but I can see it being changed out, will have to fool with it next time I am up there, see what happens, can't solve it, maybe I'll take a video, post that and see what y'all think. Mostly worried about wearing those parts out in a hurry cause something is off or worn.
 
from all my experience assembly and repairing machinery,flopping like you say is usually one of two things. chain too loose,and worn sprockets. how tight do you have the chain. iwas always taught you put it tight as can but you need to be able to slide the chain sideways on the gears barely when done. it has always worked for me. did it jump like this before. let me know . you bearing hanger bolts are tight right.
 
Could be sprocket or chain is worn, could be the shaft you are driving is just a little bent, could be the auger is bitting a little on the end each time it comes around OR is a little bent/out of round. Could be you chain gets full of snow and washes the lube out and a section gets stiff or a set to it. I like the nylon guide idea best. I'd think about switching it to a V-belt if possible they will give a little and asorb the whip.
 
It's hard to tell on the driven sprocket because of the camera angle... but I'd wager the teeth are about one wet storm or 3 ice chunks away from folding over. If the rollers don't set down tight in the teeth then it's time to look at a new sprocket. Besides... if one is worn out the other is generally not far off.
What happens with worn sprockets and particularly stretched chain... the rollers only half sit down on one or two teeth... then you get slipping or in some cases a lope in the chain.


Rod
 
Looks like a worn sprocket from here, make sure the chain is releasing at the correct point and not being dragged down by the teeth then whipping upwards when released.Assuming photo 1 moves anti-clockwise.
 
from looking at the pics I can see that your drive and driven sprockets are offset from each other. you really need to replace the driven sprocket because a used sprocket coupled with a new sprocket and chain will cause the new parts to quickly wear to the condition of the old parts. The idler sprocket does need to be on the top part of the chain as that is the slack side of the drive. I have spent a lot of years in potato fresh pack warehouses and as such have had to replace a lot of chain and sprockets to keep things running, I found a good straight edge is a valuble tool in aligning sprockets if you can get one in there to do it, but even a string streched tight on one side will help some.
 
The auger sprocket looks worn to me in the pictures. You can get an idler that has rubber on the outside of it. it runs on the face of the chain. I have a couple and they really help with chain slap. I have also made chain rail guides out of hard maple. I have a NH manure spreader that the chain always slapped, even when new. So I just made the wooden guides to support the chain between the sprockets and it works greet.
 
The teeth on a sprocket cannot wear in a way that changes their pitch. If turned into ramps from a worn (stretched) chain, they still have the same pitch. They can and will stretch a new chain from the ramping effect. but your sprocket is far from bad. Put in guides and use a straight edge on the sprockets to assure their alignment, and parallelism of shaft centerlines. All is well. And Happy New Year. Jim
 
Good suggestions, will try same next time I'm there. They're the same in principle as crawler sprockets, you can get the chain back within tolerance, new or what have you and it will ride back in the root of the sprocket again, unless its just worn out.
 
Probably hard to see in that photo, did not look worn, but the previous chain, idler and drive were definitely worn, I think its bolted on, to a flange that is welded on, and well the shaft took a few solid hits from the hammer to get it where it appeared to be judging by the old paint line on it.

Never saw any idlers as you describe, in catalogs etc., with all the suggestions and if for some reason it won't resolve itself by using everyone's suggestions, easy enough to try that, I've seen crawlers with wood guides instead of idler rollers, oil impregnated wood bearing/guide, say from the top of housing would seem to be an easy install.

Probably won't be me running it and I have no faith in the maintenance/care by who is up there, father included, they think I'm fanatical about maintenance, repairs what have you, I like things done right, and problems like these solved, of course he don't want to hear about what started it (wear on parts was already present) the lack of 2 bushings, a hitch or top link pin drilled for another pin to fit that top link hole on it which is cat 2 instead of cat 1 for some reason, $2 in parts, would have prevented it from flopping over, I hate when people take the easy way out, cripes theres a dealer a few miles away with hitch pins and all that. But... still needed chain, sprockets etc anyway....... at least it did not chain slap before LOL !
 
Theres a lot of roller chain assemblies in plants, factories, I figured someone here has dealt with it before, straight edge, measure up and see what I can do about sourcing that sprocket, and or changing it out, could be that and something still off center or aligned. I put the idler where it was before, though it worked and I did move snow with it, not too much, same with crawlers, some worn things mixed with close to or up to spec components can and will accelerate wear.
 
Not the best photo of it, looked ok, ran ok, but I will closely look at it for what you describe, see if its slightly bound and releasing like you say, excellent point. Can't recall which way, just looked at a video of it running and that may be correct it spins clockwise.
 
Guide is definitely in contention if it don't work out, the old chain had some stiffness to it, snow seems to lube it ok, not sure what a V belt would do in there with snow etc.
 
From the looks of the auger shape the top of the chain must come toward us to drive as viewing the picture sent . If so then the idler is on the power side of the chain,-----a no no,---- the idler should be on top of the top chain pushing down to tighten the chain, an alternative but not as desirable would be to lift the top of the chain to tighten it. The idler is not designed to handle driving power as the chain is being pulled over it under power and early failure of the idler is probable.
 

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