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Somethings Just Don't Get Welded

I

IaGary

Well-known Member
I broke this drawbar the other day when pulling a
dirt scrapper over a bank trying to knock the bank
down. The up pull on the drawbar snapped it. My
mistake.

Someone mentioned welding it.

I worked in a weld shop for 15 years and there is
somethings you just don"t weld. This is one of
them.

When pulling the grain cart there may be 6000 plus
pounds on the drawbar. If it broke again while
pulling that cart down the road at 15 MPH, I won"t
want to meet it or be driving the tractor.

Liability is to great.

What"s your opinion?

Gary

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With the right amount of reinforcment you "should" be Ok but with the Liability issue a new bar is in order. Preferably one without alot of holes in it.
 
Gary id replace it. you must be down in southern ia. up hear in nw ia the groung is to hard to do any scraping. good luck and a merry christmas. Bob
 
New or good used drawbar for a replacement. Some lawyer someplace is drooling over the thought of somebody welding it then winding up in some predicament where that person can be fleeced for all he is worth.
 
I would replace it. We broke the tongue on one of these absorption trailers when conducting drawbar pull on a test vehicle. Our welding shop welded it and the boss said if it breaks again he would eat it. We didn't move 50 feet and it broke again. We took it back and told him start chewing. He was a good man and he said the next one won't break. They made a new tongue from armor plate. Never had any more problems with it again. That was on the lead trailer and got the most load. Here's a pic of the trailers and field dynamometer. Hal
a57053.jpg
 
20 years ago I would have welded it and thought nothing of it. But not today. As has been stated, the liability if something goes wrong is to great to chance it.
 
Probably better off with a new one, or drill a new hole in the old ones, and you'll have a spare short one.

Merry Christmas!
 
Hay rings around here are 8' in diameter with 4 rings and half dozen supports, about 4' tall. Bottom ring sits on the ground and they are usually unpainted by the manufacturer. Material is usually 18 ga 1" square steel tubing.

Neighbor called the other day (only calls when he wants something, but he does pay/offer to pay) and had something he wanted me to fix for him.

What is it? A hay ring. How long you had it? Several years............

My response was to go and purchase a new one and estimated the price at $100 and a good investment.

Mark
 
It broke thru a hole. I have welded making pulling drawbars but would never weld that type of drawbar. I have made that type of drawbar from bar stock. I didn't take a picture but the last one was for my 961 Dorf diesel which bends down and out. I would make a new one if it was me.
 
Was at a salvage yard within eyesight of Deere's old downtown Waterloo tractor plant back sometime in the late 70's, early 80's and saw a big pile of new Deere drawbars. I instantly wanted to buy a couple for .02 per pound but then I got to thinking if Deere doesn't want them there's something wrong with them so I don't want them either. A tractor drawbar is something you want to be flawless. It's not so bad if you lose the plow going across the field, but losing 80,000 pounds worth of loaded wagons on the road never ends up good. Jim
 
I would get a new or used one...I've read on here about them exploding while tourching so I'm guessing the same result for welding may be possible.
 
Farmers are big risk takers as a rule, but welding a drawbar would take bigger kahunnas than this ole boy's got for sure !
 
This 640 Kinze is what I pull behind the MX 200.

It holds about 700 bu when full with the splash board.

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I have one I welded up years ago but it is a draw bar made from 2 draw bars because I needed one that was longer. I do not use it often but it is well heavier then it was when new but again it has to bolts holding it together plus the weld. But yes one like that one in your picture it it was going to be weld would need a second bar welded to it either on top or bottom and run a good 6 inches past both sides of the brake
 
Given where it's broken, I agree with the other posters; howsomeever........I've got 2 that were broken (pulling a grain cart) that I welded and have used for about 30 years. I don't have a picture, but they were not broken at a 'hole'; they fit 4020s/4430; I trust them just as much as I trust a new one.
 
Gary,

Need to make a reinforcement from the centerlink bracket down to the drabar. Made them & sent out with all tractors on heavy beet harvesters, stackmovers , potatoe equipment ect. Even the big ones will break.
 
i would never weld a drawbar and everyone ive ever hadon my ford 6610 has broke at where it bends up which is the weakest part. ive broke one 2 new ones only a couple yrs old pulling the mixer. first tim was going up my very steep drive way with a full load and if it hadent stoped it would have went over an embankment on the other side of the road. it stopped right in the middle of the road. the last time was last yr when i was leaving he bunk it broke right off as i went into the road. if it wasll fully loaded i wouldnt have been able to move it with the skid steer and luckly i got it out of the way just in time before a car came. no i have a straight one on from my burnt 8000 and it has held up well.
 
arent most welds supposed to be stronger than the parent material if done right? bill

p.s. my welds wouldnt hold squat!
 

The draw bar on my Ford 9000 had been welded before I bought it from my cousin. I believe it broke when a spreader got to galloping. I expect that was twenty years ago before either flatlanders or lawyers had discovered northern VT. They repaired it with 1/2 inch fish plates after veeing and welding the bar. I cut it next to the break because I didn't need any where near full length.
 
Looks like the drawbar got a workout there too! Good looking setup. Did you dump some out in a wagon before getting out?
 
Yeah, throw it in the scrap bin, or maybe you can find a use for it. I broke one this summer trying to back the bale mover over top of a round bale, because I'm not too bright sometimes. It's still leaning in the corner or the shop, because the cost of the new one leads me to believe it must be pretty special.
drawbar.jpg

David
 
Hi I would replace it , or cut and redrill if possible. There are a lot of good welders out there and Ive done alot of welding my self , that being said i would still REPLACE it. Its not worth the trouble. MERRY CHRISTMAS.
 
My willingness to weld it would depend on how badly I needed it today, how large my supply of 335 rods was and how far away the new one is...
Generally agree that it's better replaced tho, in spite of the fact that it could be welded.

Rod
 
When I bought my 4020PS it had already been around the world. The drawbar had a spot that looked funny, and it didn't look exactly straight. I guessed it had been welded. It was smooth enough someone did a good job.
I have an old feed mixer wagon I have adapted into a 250 bu. grain cart. It is well matched to the 4020. To make the PTO come out right after I removed the reduction countershafts at the front of the wagon, I slide the tractor drawbar most of the way in short.
A few years ago I was driving down one of my lanes with that combination, fully loaded, a little too fast for a rough spot. A bounce ensued, then a SNAP, BANG, and an unloaded tractor!
Fortunately the PTO was unharmed. The only damage other than the drawbar was the power cord for the scales. Where do you suppose the drawbar broke?
I looked at OEM and A&I, I bought the A&I as it was less expensive, and had a lot less holes in it.
Do you suppose I would be welding any drawbars?
 
I am needing two of those little steering pins that goes in a Ross box? Do you have any made up what are the $$$s?If you don"t care you can let me know. Thanks in advance;
 
I use extra draw bar supports on any tractor that is pulling a scraper,grain cart, or big tank spreaders. I would not even think about welding that drawbar. Too big a chance to hurt someone. I have attached a link to a JD drawbar support I like. It would not be hard to make one for your CIH
Drawbar support
 
I was the one that said weld it. I welded quite a few and never had one fail but then again I know what i am doing. It was just a suggestion I gave you and if you dont feel comfortable then dont weld it. Also on the liability issue if your drawbar breaks and implement kills someone it wont matter if it was a new one or not you ARE at fault.
 
I've never thought modern tractors have large enough drawbars to haul the kind of tounge weights that new grain carts, planters, manure tankers have on them. Yes you can pull a lot with them but you can't put unlimited amounts of weight directly down on them or they will snap. Especially when they drill a hole in them right where they lay on the support bracket. That drawbar should be three times the beef that it is. At least as beefy as a railroad iron rail or bigger. That is just under engineered or overwheighted. Probabably designed to snap just before the axle does!
 
Considering it's a bigger tractor with a lot of drawbar pull, it would be better to replace it. It probably could be welded but you'd need to know just what type of steel it's made from to get the proper procedure and rods to weld it. Also since it broke at the hole, it would have to be welded solid and re-drilled. Generally a weld should be stronger than the base metal but you also have to consider the heat affected zone, preheat, interpass and post weld heat treatment. That's why knowing what the base metal is, is so important. Drawbars are a harder steel so they don't bend and wear longer. I wouldn't be surprised if they're similar to spring steel and although spring steel can be welded, you can't weld springs on a vehicle. Same thing with steering or suspension parts. I think Gary is right to look at getting a new or good used one. Just not worth the risk of it breaking again and causing more damage or injury to someone.
 
Hi , I would replace ,but also have draw bar in the shortest position when pulling any thing .
I only have the draw bar out when I need to use PTO trailed machine
 
JDseller that's a good idea, I've seen a lot of drawbars that need that when being used on grain carts. Should be mandatory from manufacturer and that's the first one I've seen.

Jim
 
Drawbars are spring steel. They do bend, and they bend a lot. The hole is likely not relevant as most holes that are in bars in that area are for attaching a clevis strap... something that's hardly used anymore.
There's been lots of bars welded around this area over the years and they hold up fine. It's just a matter of wether or not you want that liability on you if it did break again.
Personally I've never welded a bar... but I have welded S-tine shanks which are the same basic material. They weld just fine...

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 15:56:07 12/25/11) I broke this drawbar the other day when pulling a
dirt scrapper over a bank trying to knock the bank
down. The up pull on the drawbar snapped it. My
mistake.

Someone mentioned welding it.

I worked in a weld shop for 15 years and there is
somethings you just don"t weld. This is one of
them.

When pulling the grain cart there may be 6000 plus
pounds on the drawbar. If it broke again while
pulling that cart down the road at 15 MPH, I won"t
want to meet it or be driving the tractor.

Liability is to great.

What"s your opinion?

Gary

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Click to expand...

[b:d770bec8f9]I can not believe that you guys still pull trailed machinery with clevis drawbars - why not use pick up hitches?

Farmtrac_Pick-Up-Hitch.jpg


Here all tractors are fitted with pick up hitches which are ideal for instant one one safe hitching to implements. They can be easity fitted with either clvis drawbar or hook, both of which are locked into place when raised. The pioint is close to the tractor rear axle to transfer weight to the tractor not hanging back 12" and be stressed with the implement weight

They will safely couple up to trailers carrying 14 ton of silage or grain or manure and haul at 30mph. [/b:d770bec8f9]
 
Not exactly. If its a factory one, and you had no indication it was faulty, company is liable. If you welded it, well, good luck.
 
Big carts are an awesome efficiency multiplier. Keeps the combine moving. I don't like it when it gets wet though. I think the cart and the semi are the worst things on the soil. I have to make some gently reminders to my dad and farm hand to keep them off the field as much as possible with either the truck or cart. I bought a bigger cart than I probably really need, but it worked great this year. Between the 2188 and that 800 bushel brent, I could put a 1000 in the semi.
 
Deere recommends that support for a tractor that pulls a 36 row planter, but it'd be a great addition to a tractor that pulls a 1000 bushel grain cart too. The people I work with have a 8420 that has that support. The drawbar did break before the support was added when they were transporting a 36 row planter but it could have been from the 4000 hours of mainly heavy grain cart useage on the wheat harvest, driven by young twenty-something-year-olds. Jim
 
Had one break on the AC200 while pulling an empty spreader through rough ground. Never occured to me to weld it. Replaced it with a used draw bar.
 
I can not believe that you guys still pull trailed machinery with clevis drawbars - why not use pick up hitches?

Here all tractors are fitted with pick up hitches which are ideal for instant one one safe hitching to implements. They can be easity fitted with either clvis drawbar or hook, both of which are locked into place when raised. The pioint is close to the tractor rear axle to transfer weight to the tractor not hanging back 12" and be stressed with the implement weight
Click to expand...

Straight drawbars are expensive enough. Those pickup hitches would add $1000's to the cost of a tractor in the USA.

Besides, there is a standard in the USA where the hole in the drawbar must be centered 14" from the end of the 540 PTO shaft. Otherwise, the PTO will chatter when going around corners.

Plus there's not a whole lot of hooking/unhooking going on in American farming anymore. You pull the wagon alongside the forage harvester with a separate tractor, and the wagon stays hitched to the same tractor all day long.
 
if they are breaking and the unit is not being stressed under a greater load then rated at,,it may be that the heat treat and stress relief process is not being done properly.some of these countries that parts are made in are not up to high degree of quality control. if mine were to snap i surely would have it tested by a machine shop with heat treat facilities and they can tell whether or not it is a factory defect. i can not see the fractures that well in the photo, but a break at a hole is a bell ringer to me that the part is not right,,there are other signs that should be seen with that break .
 
There's a huge (liability)difference between an original part breaking and causing injury and a repaired part breaking and causing injury no matter how good the repair was done. Unless you had a team of engineers, metallurgists and NDT technicians over seeing the complete repair process, there's no way to prove the repair was as strong as the original.
 
The hole will make it weaker but an approx. 200 HP front wheel assist tractor will put an awful lot of stress on the drawbar. Cultivator shanks have been welded too but the proper procedure requires preheating and re-tempering them. If spring steel was easy to weld with guaranteed results, you'd see accessories welded to hitches and drawbars rather than bolted on.
 
I am not saying that what I am saying is this. If your drawbar breaks you are at fault for any injury or damage to others. If you weld it your at fault. If you dont weld it you are at fault. You are at fault no matter how you look at it unles you can prove there was a defect in the material. you will never be able to prove that so you ARE AT FAULT.
 
...and if the factory part breaks... the accusers will ask why... How much overload was on it. Not only will you have the family of the injured after you... you'll have the entire engineering and legal departments of said OEM's working to prove that the fault is in your overload and not their inadequate design... So again, the ball is in your court, check and mate.
It's simply best to make sure the load doesn't get away even if the bar breaks...

Rod
 
Proportionally I don't forsee the stress being any more on the Magnum bar that it is on your 135... Probably a good deal less if we only knew.
I'm not saying he should repair it; just saying that he could if he wished.
Personally I would probably repair it for a spare/extra and buy a new one.... or make a bar that won't break.
I've got one or two broken ones around here somewhere and a buddy of mine has 7 or 8, all of which he broke in one week on one tractor... then he made one.

Rod
 
gary, when you got hung up there with your grain cart, why didn't you keep trying to get it out till the frame was resting on the ground and then put up a pic on stuck and troubled to share with us?
 
I would replace it with a wider draw bar that doesnt have holes so far from the implement hitch point.The forward position of the hole weakens the draw bar.The tractors maker may have had problems with that draw bar.check with them.The drawbar looks too narrow to me.
 
My 32 hp Ford tractor has a stationary draw bar the same size as the broken bar on your bigger tractor.Could be the engineers are at fault.
 
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