I have a request if anyone can spare a few minutes.....

Hey folks,
while we're enjoying the festivities, some folks can't be home as we know and we are all thinking about them.... I have a buddy that got a real bum deal for nothing more than the sake of PR and some prosecuter proving that he could win a case.... Take a few and read up on my little brother John :roll: and send him a note if you feel like it. It'll mean a lot to him I'm sure....
Merry Christmas folks....

Thanks, Dave

http://www.freejohnhatley.com/

You gotta make sure you put in an email address and just put "N/A" where it asks for a website. That's how I got thru anyway.

Thanks....

Dave I tried to comment,I couldnt get it to go through

The info is not clear.
It says "guilty of premeditated murder"
Who did he supposedly kill? And where?
Everyone on this YTmag site should donate $20 to get a better lawyer for this guy.

That is why I could never serve in combat, if you give me a loaded rifle and put Arab terrorists in front of me I will start shooting.

Wasn't a lot clear about the whole thing other than someone trying to make a name for themselves and some troops gotem in a wad cause the 1SG made em do sumpin they didn't wanna..... I in no way meant that anyone should donate anything other than a couple words of encouragement for him and his soldiers that got dunked with him.....

The down and dirty is they were convicted of murder when there was no supporting evidence........

Yes, I think that in the name of Justice....No one and I mean No one in the USA or in Combat in another land should be convicted of murder unless there is Evidence to prove it. Hearsay by "witnesses" is BS.
Look at the OJ trial in 1995? Evidence...Blood, the glove yet he walked free, of course he is locked up now for kidnapping.

I got it through dave

(quoted from post at 07:53:39 12/25/11) It never said, unless I missed it, when someone was killed. Not really sure what went on. Who was killed?

Jim

Click to expand...

They were convicted of "executing" a couple insurgents and dumping the bodies in the river.... No bodies recovered and the insurgents' families said they weren't missing anyone........

It never said, unless I missed it, when someone was killed. Not really sure what went on. Who was killed?

Jim

This is all so vague that it makes no sense. A person needs more information than this before making a decision.


Jim

I contacted Johns parents for dave. As they live in a town close to me. Got the ok for dave to call them. Talked to his mother very nice lady.Now I know that a mother is going to try and protect her kids. But while talking to her. I noticed she was not bitter,not blaming anyone seemed happy and just told me. The facts of the case as she understood them.So I did my own research and this is what I found
1 John and his men supposedly killed some people.
2 There is no evidance that anyone was killed.
3 No bodies were ever found.
4 No one in that village or any other village around there as anyone missing.
5 He was turned in by two guys in trouble with the F/SGT.
6 Convicted with no proof that anything had happened.

Being a twenty two year vet. I smell a command cover up. WE all need to get behind John and support him. Doesn't matter what you think of the war.Just remember there is no proof that he or his men did anything wrong.

guess he has a good lawyer working for him now but I guess military convictions don't have the option of being appealed to a civilian court...
On a positive note, I guess there was a family that was breaking up and leaving several kids in limbo... he adopted them and the lawyer is caring for them for him....... Sure I missed some details but that's what I got out of the short conversation with his mom......

Billy

I am glad you posted more details, because reading the case, I didn't see where anybody got killed. Plus pre-mediation? How can you have pre-mediation in an action as described.

Yeah, I read the rules of engagement on his site as far as motar fire, which kind of makes sense (I think) because its an area weapon in an urban area. But direct fire?

If someone fired an RPG (direct fire) at one of my tanks, we would "ruin their whole day". A HEP or APRES round doesn't discriminate between who's firing and by-standers.

I was an O-2 2/8 Cav 1st Brigade which was an early deployable Armor Brigade, Vietnam / VOLAR era. I met a lot of combat E-8's and E-7's. These guys are STRAC all had CIB's etc.

His credentials are outstanding. These guys don't get rattled.

I experienced where TOP would recommend an Article 15 or Chapter 13 on some troop, to the CO. I sat in more than a couple and gave a couple Article 15s when XO acting for the CO, as the trooper would say, "well TOP doesn't like me, he's wrong etc." You can tell it was BS and they got punished accordingly within USCMJ guidlines.

I can see a troop,'getting some sort of revenge', for lack of a better word, particularly in a general courts martial.

JAG lawyers, I only had dealings with one,when I was assigned to be a prosecuting officer (all LT's are assigned this duty)on a Chapter 13 hearing (no where near a general court), but it would decide if the troop was going to get thrown out of the service. The JAG lawyer (who represents the defendent) he was shocked when I gave a summation to the presiding officer. I was surprised he didn't for the defense. So I really don't know what level of competance these lawyers have or have not attained.

As mentioned he now has a 'good lawyer' now so it could mean all the difference.

I'd like to see (maybe its already been done) an other 0-6 level or above non-JAG combat Infantry officer not in his chain of command review the case.

I've got some military experience, and think I'am a resonable man, but just based on what's been said in this form, I haven't seen any thing that show's beyond a reasonable doubt or for that matter a prepondence of the evidence for a conviction of this magnitude.

Dave, I'm no lawyer, yet the account in the link is very incomplete. I assume that CID is the Army equivalent of CGI. If their investigation does not provide enough evidence that a crime has been commited, a suspect is usually considered innocent/cleared. That's the end of it. Any of us who have done a career in the service have been investigated for a crime. If CID, CGI in my case, report back to the command that not enough evidence exist to conclude a crime has been commited, it generally ends there. This is how commanders get to say that there is nothing personal when they dispose of charges. To be bluntly honest, I have never seen a case go any further than an Investigation Service that concludes that not enough evidence exist to show a crime has even been commited. That said I have great faith in the randomly seleted Court Martial boards. It is unfathomable that these officers acted in anyway negligent in considering the guilt or innocence of the accused. There is no doubt in my mind that if this board found guilty, despite an Investigative Service report as such, that other evidence had to have been presented beyond questionable testimony. These officers are not slanted against the member. They are not even members of the members command for a general court martial. They have no ax to grind against him. If it was, however, proven that this court martial failed to give diligent consideration to the accused, it would be a greater scandal then an opportunist prosecution.

I guess you have never been in the military. You are guilty unless you can prove otherwise. For an officer you vote the way command want's you to vote. Or you can forget your next premotion. I saw a black officer railroaded out of the Army. Because he was getting more popular with the troops than the commander. Because he took care of his troops.

Thanks Marc. I have twenty two years total in service. Navy and National Guard. I have seen this kind of thing a few times.
I was a batt. motor SGT. I had one kid kicked out for failing a drug test. I protested to everyone about it. The kid was a Morman and I know for a fact he was not doing drugs. But when I turned in the unit drug dealer. I was pulled in and told. That if I wanted to stay in. I had better change my story and drop all charges. That is if I wanted to see retirement pay