Question i been wanting to ask on trespassing

Wouldn't go over well at all. I never heard of a company up here doing that.

Rick

One example road work: They park there backhoes rollers in a field, lawn, private road, parking lot etc. Do they have some eminant domanin or do they have to get permission? I understand they have some footage associated with the road 24 36 etc. But not your 20 acer field.
#2 private outfits, example: harvesting bean field and they move in there oil truck, service truck, trailer etc all on your property accross the road. Doesn't seem like they ask or apparently have to? How would this go over in your area.

I know in Ohio where I grew up (Highland County) they would ask my dad if they could park road graders and such in our 2 acre front yard at night. He always said yes. I would think they would need permission at all times.

Only if they were working for me.

Down in my part of Texas. You have to have permision to park equipment on private land. When I did service work on Micro wave towers. I always contacted the land owner. Before I went on his property.

I farm a lot of acreage along state roads, whenever there has been roadwork, paving, resurfacing, ditch cleaning etc. I have always been asked before hand if they could park equipment along a field.

Texas: you probably has to as they shoot tresspassers and hang thieves!!!!

My son used to work for a tree trimming outfit. They asked to park their trucks here when they were working in this area. It is about 30 miles back to base. I said go ahead as I have a good watch dog.

Came home one day to find a power line clearing crew had set up camp in my feild. I politely went out and asked them what was going on. They had the mobile office and all out there. Guy said he had permission from the landowner. I informed him I was the landowner, and I never gave anyone permission to set up there. Guy gets real irrate with me, calls me a few names, spouts out some kind of legal hwy dept mumbo jumbo....... so 2 hours later hes sitting in jail for trespassing, his boss is trying to get me to not press charges, his work crew is busy moving the office and equipment off of my land.

Wow you must have been labled a hard !ss real quick!!!!!

Several years a go contractor was installing gas main on my road, " I Offered them a secure overnight parking on my property" when job was complete the gave me about 10 yards left over grader base, and loam, and a gas service line to the house ( I still have not hooked up to the gas but neighbor tells me they charged him several hundred dollars to hook in) .

I would think at the least they would need to ask permission and at most, for eminent domain, serve you with papers. Never just do it unless with in the right of way.

They ask for permission around here, when a staging area is needed for a say a state road job. I've allowed it several times on our lot near the state road, but they asked permission. They were also generous with providing some thanks, via some loads of crushed stone, left the area clean and graded, of course the one outfit I know very well, another I did not, no real problems, they have to ask though, showing up without doing that is wrong.

Power company owns 175'-0" wide swath through our property, they installed a new high voltage circuit, clearing the land, poles, couple of big towers etc., drilling subcontractor working on the tower bases, and power company's own forces were both very generous, helpful etc. I laid out the access road to my liking, they brought in several hundred tons of crushed stone, drilling company allowed me use of a rental backhoe 420 D Cat for 6 weeks on weekends for allowing them to dump the tower base spoil on site, ( was next to an old embankment, perfect) Power company allowed me use of one of their rentals JD 650 dozer, I just cleaned up the lot and made more room with it. The line crew wrecked a culvert, sheared a 6x6 post off with my posted signage on it, kind of rude and crude kind of crew, well sort of, they work fast so little stuff gets overlooked, but the power company forestry sub, was absolutely great, not problem new and much bigger culvert pipe, installed 2 gates properly done too, Asplundh crew were the best, people can be polite and work together and its fine. I have to provide access to the power company, stated on the deed, however I could have been a real pain in the @ss, and this was a within the 150 buffer of a wetland, I know the DEC agent and gave her a good report on these guys, they never bothered them once, I could have easily done the opposite, and it would have been trouble for them.

Liability, I would think any contractor would need to have a hold harmless, indemnification clause in their policy, covering the landowner for the extent of their operations while on your land, they show up, besides trespassing, you could demand that I think, I did not here as it was not a big concern, however they should provide the landowner with a copy of the paperwork that shows additional insured, (you) if on your property.

If I'm inspector on project typically the guys I am working with will know right of way distance out and will heed it. Otherwise we ensure contractor has permission or goes and gets permission. Found also that landowners that can offer some security for equipment (parking beyond r/w on weekends) and are generally easy to work with can typically get some small "favors" done at little or no cost. I.E. stumps removed, extra approaches, and such. Had one farmer provide campsite for 2 workers and parking area for eqt. Get a 345 cat hoe in for several hours doing stump removal and burning. In my office we realize road public relations is important and try to ensure to the limit of the contract that the owners "you and me public" are treated right. Private utilities and their subs are a differnt story.

Depends on many factors.

Here in NY most public roads are privately owned but have public highway easements. Those easements vary with right-of-way distance on the sides. Sometimes 20 feet, sometimes 50 feet and sometimes NONE. In my area, most of the roads became so by "easement by prescription." That means by "use."
With them - the town only has a legal right-of-way of what's been maintained for at least 10 years by them. If a road shoulder is wild and tree bound (unmaintained) the full rights belong to the property owner. I own several public roadways like that.

Town snow plow trucks or graders often keep widening the road a few inches per year. If it goes unchallenged over X amount of years it becomes legal.

I've dealt with this issue many times and found that many town highway supervisors, town attorneys, etc. are clueless on the matter.

With utility companies it's often quite different. They may have a written easement for a specific width through private land - but there is also usually a wide-sweeping general easement giving them the right to virtually do anything necessary to maintain their lines or pipes.

Eminent Domain is a legal procedure and can't be done ad hoc or instantly. There's the slow version and the quick version. If your land gets taken by it and you later prove in court is was an illegal taking - here in NY you still do not get your land back. Just more money.

Then we bury them.

Most of the land owners down here. Will work with you if you respect there property. Sometimes they have some work done by the crews for the right to be own their property.

If it is a tower where you are there often. You get to know the owner and all you do then. Is wave at him if you see him in town or drive by his house and honk your horn. Before you head out to the site.

Of course. Sometimes you are forced to stop and have a meal with him. Sometimes it is a BBQ and BEER. Sometimes his wife will force you to take home fresh baked goods. Had one lady that always made me take fresh yeast rolls and honey with me.Spent a week on that site onetime. Think I gained ten pounds that week.

When we were harvesting out west we didn't park on the neighbor's land when we moved to a new field. The combines always opened an area just inside the gate to get all the equipment in right away. The neighbor is always a potential customer and we didn't want to make waves. Most of the custom harvesters did the same thing as us. Jim

I think most farmers are pretty open to WORKERS making use of their land as long as they are respectful and don't cause damage. On the other hand, people who are there to play get more scrutiny.

The only problem I've had was a guy working for the telephone company cut my fence because he was too fat/lazy to climb over it to get to the equipment cabinet that the phone company put in my pasture. Luckily, I noticed it before my cattle got out on the road. When I called the phone company I was satisfied with the shock and apologies that came from the other end of the phone. They also told me if I put in a gate there they would reimburse me so I went to the farm store and requested "the most expensive tube gate you have".

It varies form state to state, I grew up in Michigan the laws actually preserved the land owner's rights, if the state or power company wanted to come on your land they had to have your permission or have an easement. The power company would ask for you to take a "standard" agreement in which you give up all your rights, if you challenge them on it you'll find the law allows you to be paid for any right you give up, they don't really want to pay you so they'll reduce what they want from you to minimize their costs. In Wisconsin we are "progressive", which is another way of saying the power company can do what they want, you can take them to court, where I live the judge is married to a power company executive, bet you can figure out how your case will come out!

Okay, heres my totally unresearched, no time analyzing, but still professional reply:

1) What the "law" has to say depends on your state, be it codified or common law, so the laws of other jurisdictions dont mean a whole lot.

2) Many states have laws that allow and permit certain "public" utility work on public roads (WELL DUH to that) PLUS THE IMMEDIATE AREA, and subject to those laws and perhaps judicial interpretation, its well possible equipment can be used and stored WITHIN THE CONFINES of whatever road and immediate area the zoning and original road grants and/or contracts or easements etc (roads or utility services)permitted. As Im sure youre aware, the initial road grants and/or takings included strips much wider then the actual paved or graveled roads, the county may have a 50 foot right of way even if the roads only 25 feet wide.

3) Over the years private or public utilities may have acquired by contract or eminent domain or even easements by prescription certain rights concerning say water or phone or electric utilities. If those are in writing and some were were granted using Deeds, what they can and can not do is a matter of strict contract SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION A THOROUGH RESEARCH OF DEEDS HAS TO BE MADE if such a right were thus granted. Often private utility easement contracs permit alllllllllllll sorts of use of your private property most people are unaware of and theres lots of fine print, they can do a lot let me tell you. Often when land is sold or subdivided certain restrictions on the grant apply that allow utility work YOU HAVE TO RESEARCH THE DEEDS AND GRANTS RECORDS AND EASEMENTS ETC ETC

4) But heres what you may be looking for

If theres no deeded conveyance permitting it,,,,,,,,,if your states common or codified law does not permit it,,,,,,,if theres no contract permitting it,,,,,,,,,,,,if the original road grants do not permit it,,,,,,,and especially if its a private versus a public firm wishing to park their equipment I COULD MAKE MAKE A GOOD PROFESSIONAL LEGAL ARGUMENT BEFORE A COURT THEY CANT PARK ON YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY THATS OUTSIDE THE ROAD GRANT OR EASEMENT CONFINES. NOTE Thats no guarantee the Court would buy such an argument and they rule, NOT you or your lawyer or me or anyone here, subject, of course, to appeal.

MY APPROACH WOUDL BE ITS NOT PERMISSIBLE UNLESS AND UNTIL THEYYYYYYYYYY CAN ESTABLISH ANY LEGAL RIGHT TO DO SO IE PUT THE BUREDN ON THEM TO BE ON YOUR PROPERTY, NOT LET THEM DO IT AND TRY AND PROVE THAY CANT!!!!!!!!!!

Now ya see why theres no easy answer to legal issues sometimes??

God Bless and Merry Christmas

John T Semi Retired Country Lawyer

Last winter the utility company came on my property and cut probably 50 pine trees down under there power lines without even notifing me.The lines were moved back to my property line years ago when the road was rebuilt.

I enjoy meeting people like that and would do the same if the roles were reversed, wish more of the world was like that.

Its surprising sometimes too, thought this was only out in the country..... I worked on an occupied 13 story senior citizens building in '95, in NYC was 150 units. The building was being clad with E.I.F.S. panels, they worked off of swing stage scaffolds, a whole bunch of residents offered the workers, food, beer and similar kindness, they had to save the beer til after hours, they'd be by a window and someone would offer a six pack, kind people, many who either had no family left, or ones that never visited, when this work started the place livened up, was kind of like the old days when the men worked on the farm and the women kept them going by preparing meals and so on, these people made it their business to look after these guys. Met many of the residents and became friends, used to sit with them after work while waiting til traffic subsided.

One field I worked (hay) for the farmer I used to help, neighbor always comes out a with a cold drink, just being nice, I've always done the same here.

Every year I have the township's road equipment sitting in the yard below the barn about 200' from the road. No problems and their fuel doesn't get stolen overnight. Township code enforcement and supervisors leave me alone and I let them park their equipment. Who loses?

Next time Ill tell him he can park in your feild.

Often (of the many I saw) those electric utility easements allow them to do almost anything including taking your blood and your first born

John T

I just want to add something that I've dealt with many times. A records search for a public utility easement is often near impossible if done 60-80 years ago (like many). That because they often filed as "mass easements" that covered large areas. If you are Joe Blow and own a house - first you've got to find out who owned your house during that time that easement actually took place. Even then, there's no guarantee a person can find it. Sometimes only recorded for the Grantor and not the Grantee. Best way to find is call the utility company and demand proof of their rights to enter your land. Then they have to supply it in writing. They all have archivists who know just where to find it.

Its not that they have eminate domanin, its that they don't care. I planted some trees on the front of my place once and the county people parked their trucks on the trees when they were working out there. Funny the next day they parked out there again and for some reason they got a lot of flat tires.

That's right. A bully will push around if you let him but I don't let them. If BS was dollars they would all be millionaires.

The state replaced a bridge along my place a few years ago. They paid me market price for what they took and then "rented" additional land to park construction stuff on and restored it when they were done.

I have had to "trespass" a couple times in the last 5 years or so.

The first time was because my IH1066 was gelling up. I was able to limp it to county owned property, and had actually called the Sheriff Department before I left it there. They said "no problem", and that they would let the county road department that actually owned the property know it "belonged" there.

The other time was this summer when a tire went flat on my Kuhn mower conditioner. It is an odd size tire, so had no choice but to just park it.

It spent the first night in a grass waterway between two corn fields. It was almost dark when the tire "blew".

I did leave a message for the landowner, did not hear back from him. Went ahead and asked the landowner who lives across the road the next day if I could move it to his property, he said OK and it can stay there as long as needed.

It is all about letting the property owner know. Most if not all will work with you if you have a real need to be there for a short while. DOUG

I spent 33 years on road construction. We always got landowner permission to park equipment on their property. Many of those landowners got some kind of work done for them in appreciation. It was always kinda satisfying to watch the grouchy neighbor across the road (the one who wouldn't let us park) while we paved a nice driveway for his neighbor in appreciation for letting us park.

Our farm borders the Shawnee National Forest, and I let the forestry guys park equipment here anytime they want to. They appreciate the equipment being a little closer to civilization than it would be back in the woods. They ALWAYS ask first, even tho I've told them there's no need to.

Same way for the power company. Come and go when they want to, but someone always asks first. Common courtesy, or respect, whatever you want to call it.

I've never ran across a horse's 8utt who wanted to park on me or who didn't ask - probably wouldn't respond nicely to him.

I moved here over six years ago, 33 acres with long road frontage on a paved back road. Apparently the county road crew and their friends think my place is theirs to use. I occasionally came home to find their equipment parked 30 feet from the road on my lawn, often from thursday night til monday morning, never asked permission. When they re-paved the road they left their paving equipment blocking my barn for the weekend. Come monday, the boss that day said they would extend the pavement three feet into my driveway if I wanted, said fine, sounds good, never happened. Since then I have run them off everytime they try to park here, I don"t like being used like that. Since I used to haul equipment cross country I have master keys to start and run their stuff if I find it here again I"ll move it myself.

I have a road easement on 2 sides of me, a local utility power line crossing about mid way and water line that I use, in addition to a pair of cross country fuel lines; 10" and 13".

Always, the employees are all the things that they are supposed to be and in Texas trespassing is a jail and $2000 offense if fenced and the Sheriff gets elected every election and is never challenged...i.e. they do their job and do it well.

Mark