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Any body else hear about the Military cut backs??

O

old

Well-known Member
Location
Camdenton Missouri
Been hearing this for a couple weeks now that many of the younger newer kid that enlisted in the past few years are for the lack of a better way of saying it layed off and being sent home and are being forced out because the military is over maned. Wife was some place today and heard a couple people talking about it and I have been hearing the same thing off and on for a couple weeks now.
So any body else hear of this??
 

I wouldn't doubt it. My neighbor's son has been trying to get back in the AF, he's been out 3 years. They apparently don't want him back.
 
Old, It happened after Vietnam and the first Gulf War. I was in during both. I was not around for WWII and Korea but it happened then. It stands to reason that it will happen again.

Harold
 
I was stationed at Ft Riley witha guy that was going to retire as a Capt. but was only a PFC. He flew a bommer in WW2, and had to take a bust after the war because they had too many Officers. Then he was a lush also, the last thime I saw him he was a private E2. Then he went over the hill.
 
I joined the Navy just because I didn't want to get drafted in the army, and be sent to vietnam. I ended up there anyway. I liked the Navy. If I would have had a chance to get out a few years early, I would be smiling all the way home. Now as for your son he enlisted so he wanted to spend more time in the service. Be glad he is comming home in one piece. Stan
 
I imagine it's true. The military can't afford to keep men with nothing to do. It has happened many times before. The other bad thing with that is more unemployment people.
 
" The military can't afford to keep men with nothing to do"

Yet we keep how many Congressmen, Senators and a president to sit around all day with nothing productive to do? When we add their staffs, as if sticking Americans in the back is a job they couldn't do without assistance, anyway, there are plent of cuts that we should make right in DC before cutting a single rock scrubbing private.
 
The Country is broke so I guess we'll have to give up fighting wars with no purpose and no end.Less wars to fight means less folks needed in the military,but Hey I'm way behind because I still can't figure out why we went to Vietnam.
 
"I still can't figure out why we went to Vietnam."

Twice in our American history we have actually been lied in war, yet Iraq isn't one of them. The first was the mine that hit the USS Maine, and the second was the Tunkin Gulf. In the first, the event actually happened but was misrepresented by the press for the purpose of minipulating opinion in favor of war. The second may have never happened, as no evidence has been presented to support the allegation.
 
It is to be expected.
Irak finished although we thought it was when George W had his stage play on the carrier, getting out of Afghanistan shortly.
Suppose the Pollies better look around to find another Country where they can instil democracy.

Hiati, Panama, Vietnam, Afghanistan, what a success story.Still poor.
 
In the 20 yrs I was in the USAF from 1980 to 2000 they came up with this a couple times. People got scared and took an early out offer. It really worked out in most cases for the better cause it weeds out the riff raff that was just looking for a free ride for a few years. I never actually seen anyone forced out for anything other than bad conduct. But this was just the USAF, can't speak for any other branch.
 
My youngest daughter is at Ft. Bragg, NC now- sent me subscription to Army Times. Cutback is about 140,000 troops.
 
Well, if they all got laid off from a job in a desert, why don't they just get transfered to another job in a desert? ... in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Cali.... well, as long as this time they are allowed to bring their rifles.... 220 odd years ago the standing army was established to 'protect the borders and boundaries from intrustion' and the navy to 'protect the sealanes for safe commerce'. Neither is doing either...
 
The Navy was established to conduct warfare at sea, while the Revenue Cutter Service was instituted for safe commerce. Sorry Tony, but having just retired recently from USCG, I had to. It's like I was just unable to stop myself.
 
(quoted from post at 19:56:36 12/17/11) It is to be expected.
Irak finished although we thought it was when George W had his stage play on the carrier, getting out of Afghanistan shortly.
Suppose the Pollies better look around to find another Country where they can instil democracy.

Hiati, Panama, Vietnam, Afghanistan, what a success story.Still poor.
Click to expand...

It happened after WWI which caught us with our pants down on 7 Dec 1941 and totally unprepared to fight WWII. Then again after WWII which again let us down when Korea started. The cold war was in full swing by the time we went into Viet Nam so we were in better shape there until the war escalated. There were cuts again after Viet Nam in the Cater/Reagan recession. When Reagan got both houses to increase the size of the standing military we actually had a pretty good sized military. Then came the peace dividend, they forced people out left and right. The Army went from 800,000 to 400,000 right after the end of the GUlf War. They did that by being very tight on allowing people to reenlist, buyouts, early retirements and forced seperation (called "quality management program"). That when they were claiming that we could fight a 2 fronted war with the new sized forces. Well now they are going to do it again until we get caught with our pants down again all so they can keep spending!

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 20:55:39 12/17/11) In the 20 yrs I was in the USAF from 1980 to 2000 they came up with this a couple times. People got scared and took an early out offer. It really worked out in most cases for the better cause it weeds out the riff raff that was just looking for a free ride for a few years. I never actually seen anyone forced out for anything other than bad conduct. But this was just the USAF, can't speak for any other branch.
Click to expand...


Yes the Army did force people out in the 90's (started in 90, put on hold for the Gulf War) for lackluster performance. People who were just cruising along for retirement. Some the the guys who got the boot were repeat offenders for the overweight program, others with a history of failed PT test, others still with below average evals. On the lower enlisted side we were booting guys left and right. Couple of bad checks, drugs, alcohol related incidents....many young soldiers didn't make it 6 months in. But in a few short years the Army lost half it's size.

Rick
 
Military cut-backs doesn't always me cutting active duty,..it also means killing jobs of those who work for the branches of the Dept of Defense.
 
I remember them days of zero tolerance for anything. Forget to salute and out you go. Ever single policy was zero tolerance. Misspell another ship's name and out with you. You'ld think they would mix it up a bit. Maybe have a few policies that they seriously enforce, and let CO's use their judgement with the rest.
 
The Army started some of that back in 1953 shortly after the Korean War was over. They made some of the officers revert back to their permanent rank which was in the enlisted ranks.

Both of my brother-in-laws were recalled to active duty in 1950 and they they both retired in the 1970's. Both had served in WW2, Korea and Nam. I could've reenlisted, but since I found I had been furloughed for the draft I was rehired back with the government. Hal
PS: A lot of officers from the Viet Nam War who were passed over for promotion were separated from the Army.
 
Why should this be surprising? Iraq is shutting down and defense budget cuts are a certainty. Much of the money that will be left is needed to repair and replace equipment that was worn out or lost over the past ten years. Not to mention the cost of caring for the thousands of vets who were maimed in the wars in Iraq and Iran. The easiest way to cut expenses is to cut back on troop levels.
 
Another view on this. I had a talk with my son, who is career Navy, about this. Yes the Navy is cutting back. He has 3 more years until retirement and yes he is worried that he will be cut early. He just deployed with his squadron for another tour on the Abraham Lincoln. Funny thing is he and one other specialist are the only ones on board who can do something (classified) to the planes. If either one drops out the squadron cannot fly. They cannot get replacement parts for the planes and have to rob one to fix another. This haas been going on for years. Point he made is that the money is there but it is being spent on much less important things than fixing the planes. What could be more important than support for the things needed to protect our country?
 
Youngest son's unit was just ship to Kuwait about 45 days ago to a post out in the middle of the desert. He didn't want to go but is the parts supply man. The last unit that left, left the aircrafts on the base in run down condition. They are ordering lots of parts and fixing them up. Ask him the other day what their missiom was over there and he said they have not told us. Suppose to be there a year though.
 
Sad to hear that news but cutbacks are going to take place (Im very pro military and for a strong defense), but the USA is BROKE. Were 15 TRILLION in Debt (much to China) and 41 cents of every dolar were spending we have to borrow (from China). The entitlements of Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid are among the biggest expenditures along with Defense. Back when Social Security started there were maybe 6 or more workers paying in for every retiree, now its getting down maybe to one to one, its no longer sustainable over the long haul.

IM AS SAD AND MAD ABOUT THIS AS THE NEXT GUY and once people get used to welfare and entitlements and SS and Medicare and Medicaid and big defense and its cut WERE GONNA HEAR SCREAMS OF BLODDY MURDER AND PROTESTS when we go broke and can no longer provide them.

SAD SAD state of affairs and Im a patriot and love this country and our military but we just cant keep spending and borrowing and raising taxes, we have a spending problem NOT an income problem grrrrrrrrrrrrr

God Bless yall, God Bless our armed forces, God Bless the USA

Merry CHRISTmas

John T
 
(quoted from post at 05:43:40 12/18/11) Another view on this. I had a talk with my son, who is career Navy, about this. Yes the Navy is cutting back. He has 3 more years until retirement and yes he is worried that he will be cut early. He just deployed with his squadron for another tour on the Abraham Lincoln. Funny thing is he and one other specialist are the only ones on board who can do something (classified) to the planes. If either one drops out the squadron cannot fly. They cannot get replacement parts for the planes and have to rob one to fix another. This haas been going on for years. Point he made is that the money is there but it is being spent on much less important things than fixing the planes. What could be more important than support for the things needed to protect our country?
Click to expand...

My son was on the Lincoln for 4 years, now is US Army national Guard.

From 74-96 there were many times when we did not have the money to repair our tanks. After a major inspection of our tanks in 87 the average tank in the Battalion had over 300 deficiencies, granted the bulk were minor but we just didn't have the funds to get the little stuff they needed, sometimes nuts, bolts and washers. About a year after I retired a friend still on active duty was talking about coming to visit. He told me it would be about a month before he would arrive because of a major field exercise. 4 days later he calls and said he's be here in a couple of days. He told me they went out and on the 2nd day had one tank broke a final drive and another lost the tranny......and that was it, units last repair money for the year was spent and they were only 1/2 way through the budget year.

When the military is handed their budget for the year they are not just handed a check. What they get is "here is x amount for new equipment and x amount for fuel and x amount for building maintenance and x amount for training. The military isn't allowed to shift those funds around.

Thats basically what happened to the guys serving just before Korea. In the Army almost every platoon was missing a squad, every company a platoon, every battalion a company.....right up the line. In the Marine Corp when the 1st Division was ordered deployed they had to strip the 2nd Div and other activities plus call up the Marine reserve to bring the 1st to war time strength. I'm sure the Navy and Air Force were in the same boat. Plus when you don't have the money to fix the equipment you don't have money for training.

While an 800,000 man Army cost too much we know a 400,000 man force isn't large enough to fight 2 minor wars at the same time without the Guard being repeatedly deployed.

Rick
 
Well, Bob, you worded it like the way you were told. the 1990's 'mission statement'. I am more interested in the mission statement of the 1790's.
'Sealanes' was what is now called 'international waters'? and pirates, like Somolia and bay of Bengal nowdays, was the issue. When debating the second ammendment, if there was no war, there was to be no standing army or navy, unless utilzed, to save citizen's lives and property. They needed duties to justify their funding. Then as now, so these cutbacks are- what the gov't is suppose to do. If the tax payer had to pay for wars that aren't there, and all the pensions and services earned and needed, well, eventualy we are ALL tax payers.
'Safe commerce' in US waters was -let's see- Lighthouse service, Lifesaving service, navigation aid service?- they were merged in-1913 and 1939? My father's first ship was a lighthouse tender. 'REVENUE cutter SERVICE'...remind you of something else under dept of treasury??? Like Internal REVENUE SERVICE? Not exactly anti pirate, but anti unarmed tax dodging smugglers? Did they tell you about those good ol days? Tell you what. Next week I will be down by the ocean,I will pull into New London and stop in the academy museum, and ask the historians there if I am off on another planet again.....
 
Tony the problem with that is we have found out the hard way that while you can draft a warm breathing body that may have skills needed by the military you cannot draft all of those skills. Sure there are track drivers, carpenters and admin types out there but where are you going to draft a trained gunners mate/tanker/infantryman from? And if they are not trained and competent in their jobs just how many die? Look up the 1st battle of Kasserien Pass where most of our troops were not well trained, or had very low experience levels. Look at the opening days of the Korean War when we were almost driven into the sea.

Sure when they wrote the Constitution and provided for a military they were judging the world by that day. A day when all sailing ahips carried cannon for self defence. Try taking merchant sailors and putting em on a carrier to conduct flight ops with crop dusters. A day when we were isolated from Europe and we whould have known months in advance of an attack. Would have had months to raise an army and prepare. Now you don't have that time cushion. Today when from the word go could have paratroopers on the ground in HOURS. Today about the only way to avoid having a standing military is unacceptable, that would be to pop a small nuke on anyone who messed with us.

Rick
 
I know the pilots of the fighters that scrambled to help the Maddox and T Joy. They were given dozens of radar vectors to the "attacking PT boats" and neither of them saw anything resembling a pt boat. One of them (Stockdale) was later shot down and captured and he lived in mortal fear that the Gomers would find out he was involved in that sham.
I've had the same thing happen to me three or four times. I was vectored off a Barcap position by one of the picket Frigates. There would be no boat in the water, and the controllers always apologized and said it was aphenomenon called "phantom contacts". I always told them better safe than sorry, but we never wrote up a report that said there was an attack. Rather we kept it as quiet as we could.
 
Cut backs have been apart of the militaries of all the major countries since the begining of the industrial age. The USA, UK, Canada, and all the civilized nations ramp up with technology before, during and after the wars, but the manpower is always the biggest finacial drain. It can't come as a surprise to anyone because supposedly the war is over and the high troop levels are not required anymore. Didn't anyone catch the news about china's new aircraft carrier is now at sea? How about how long it's going to be before iran is totally controlling iraq? Let's not forget good old afgahnistan and their lovely next door neighbours pakistan? The government is going into an election year so they have to make things look good by bringing troops home and making people feel warm and fuzzy inside. It seems like whenever we leave these countries without actually crushing the enemy (somalia,Yugoslavia, etc) all that happens is they become worse holes than they where in the begining. All these governments need to stay the coarse and eliminate the enemy, and not make friends. After that we can cut the troops, until then give them what they need to get the mission done.
 
Please don't read too much into my reply Rick, I just want to know why these desert warfare trained and experiernced troops are going to be let out, rather than deployed to the Mexican border? I dont see this as a teabag question, I am sure in 1811 and 1911 there were many more troops on the western frontier than third world countries- or redbrick forts back east. That is what the army was funded to do, then and now. Washington said to 'beware of foreign entanglements'. If the Maine had docked in Key West instead of Havana, the USA would still be a nation taking care of itself, insted of babysitting an ungrateful world. Tactics for theoretical wars broke the soviet union, they could not afford the cost... of not having a war!... Reagan knew that then, maybe so do our enemies now? That is why they fight with electronic toys and a camel? I believe the old fashioned word was 'confound the emeny'? Anyway. Why are those people not re-deployed- what is it? 140,000 troops, divided by 3000 miles? one soldier every 120 odd feet the entire Mexican border? Who would carry a bale of weed by that picket? Oh of course, if the soldier was ordered to stand there and do nothing, or offer a canteen of gadorade? to keep the wheels of justice greased right? I heard talking heads say if the narcotic 'industry' was to colapse, the US economy might never recover. Hence the fight to not fight- or legalize anything. Homemade submarines are bringing tons of coke into the gulf of Mexico... I certainly hope the coast guard is looking for them, to kill it, not to read miranda rights in international waters... perhaps the navy could help them? Like they found that Chinese carrier... right after the civilian weather satillite did...... the picture reminded me of the first pic a plane took of the Bismark... but I am still more concerned of our fearless leaders being either paid off, or 'confounded' by a burro and coyote with celophane wrap, or a minisub welded up with a harbor freight mig machine....
 
Tony it don't work that way.

140,000 troops works out to about 98,000 support troops leaving only 42,000 to be on the line. The line soldier cannot do his job without that support. Then the actual deployment is 2/3rds forward and and 1/3 rear. The forward units would be there a minimum of 2 weeks where these guys will be divided in half at best. 1/2 on duty manning the line and the other half off. These guys are going to be working 7 days a week at least 14 hours a day. You have them on line for 12 hours. Time to get into the position and relieve the current guards. Pre mission briefing and after action reports. Inspections and a lot of others little stuff. Then you never leave a guy in a one man position, always 2! Not you are spread out more that 2,000 feet. If you get a commander who decides to do it in 3rds so his guys are on line only 8 hours those positions are even further apart and his guys are still going to be working 10-12 hours a day.

The Soviets built the Iron Curtain between the east and west. Double fence with mine fields and guards in towers who were allowed to shoot anyone trying to get it (at least thats what they tried telling everyone) and still people escaped to the west. They built that wall because to really close down a border a division can only cover about 20 miles in the best terrain. A mech division is about 28,000 people with about 8,000 being line soldiers. That would be about 150 divisions to close a 3,000 mile border or about 30 times that 140,000 troops. Who is going to pay for that.

Shortly after I retired they did send troops to the border. A friend was deployed to that. The positions were so far apart that there were gaps and all they were allowed to do was report crossings. According to Ken it was a waste of time and money.

Rick
 
A little of Winston Churchill's North African speech after the routing of Rommel's Afrika Corps.

I had a leaking rear tyre on my Fergy, always flat, comtemplating taking it off to fix.checked the valve first. bingo.
 
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