CDL license in PA, I need to vent... I am so upset...

Well, I have a decent sized dump and I bought a trailer for it. To give specifics:

1995 IH 4900 dump. DT 466. GVWR 25,500
2001 eager beaver 10 ton trailer, electric brakes, deack over



Now, if you read the letter of the law, it says:

any combination of vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 26,001 or more, adn the towed vehicle has a GWVR of more than 10,000, you need a Class A CDL license.

I checked online for a few states. All of them say the same thing. basically...


So, I have a truck with a GVWR of less than 26,001. Alone, I can drive it legally without a CDL license. When I put a 20,000 trailer behind it, the Gross Combination Weight Rating is 45,500. That now becomes a truck which requires a CDL Class A license.


So, I go to PennDOTs website and it makes no mention of your test vehicle. I go to teh testing facility and they say, because the truck alone weighs less than 26,001, I can't use it to take my test. With the trailer attached, it has a GCWR of 45,500. However, with the trailer attached, they wont let me taket he test, because the truck it's self weighs less than 26,001. So, if I have teh trailer attached, I need to have a CDL license. If I were to take a CDL class A test, I would need to have a tractor weighing more than 26,001(gvwr) and a trailer weighing more than 10,000. That's the only way to take the test. If you have a dump that weighs 33,000 and a 14,000 trailer, you can take the test. However if you show up in a truck that has a GVWR of 25,500 adn a trailer that has a 20,000 GVWR, you can't take the test because the truck weighs less than 26,001. However, if I go out on the road I need a CDL class A to operate the same vehicle.


So, it is not a legal test vehicle, but, if I get pulled over, I am legally obligated to bend over while they ram $5000 in fines up an uncomfortable location.


So...

I am VERY mad. I wish I could sue the state for being a bunch of dense morons. more-so, I wish I could bend them over and ram something into their uncomfortable location(I'm talking about Harrisburg, it's a very uncomfortable location... err yeah...)


This is why I need to be locked up. I see this stupidity and I just want to scream. I want to make the 6 o'clock news and have people talk about me. I wish I could get into politics. I'd make the world a better place for everyone who works for a living. Instead, it is the opposite.


Where did I go wrong? Did my parents mistreat me as a child? Apparently I have issues and am hot headed. Why? because I don't see the logic in this current logic. I want to scream and flail my arms wildly in official's direction.


Am I wrong in getting so heated about this? The more I think about it, the more upset I get.

I should move to the city, go on welfare and let the state take care of me. I'm obviously mentally ill for thinking they are wrong. They will be the first to tell you this.

Those driver inspectors must want to feel really,really,really safe when they're getting driven around in them rigs,what else could it be?

yeah, know what you mean, ben liveing in pa for 57 years, 56 and 1/2 years too many. BUT you know what they say, "you have a friend in pa".

hi--no! your not wrong for feeling p'oed.
i have been feeling this way everyday for a couple of months ! its our gov. in action....no clue about the real world...then they brainwash some cronies to carry out their crap. you must not farm becuz i always did what i wanted as a farmer..if it was iffy,did it on sun. morning.
good luck

I'm not an anarchist, yet, government restrictions are becoming so burdensome and such that they provide that nothing can be done. The reality is that if the truck you are going to be driving isn't big enough for the driving test of a CDL, it should clue big brother to the reality that a CDL may be a bit much, in my opinion. I personally feel thatso much of government regulation is designed to prevent people from doing things, vise making industry responsible(Which is an empty phrase anyway). Consider the sale of meat. Provided the seller is frank about the meat, milk or other farm raised food stuff being sold, what business is it of government to determine who can sell these items? Those who have the government's approval have a semi monoply by default(if not by design). An individual builds his own home, how does a free people have a government tell us which toilets we may use, or which refridgerators we may be allowed to own, or that we may not be allowed to service our own machines unless we are permited by the EPA? our government has long since crossed lines into dictatorship, in my opinion.

I took mine in a truck that was GVWR less than 26,001 lbs. with a trailer attached to make it a combination of more than 26,001 lbs. I took the written tests for CDL Class A with combination endorsement. No problems, but this is Texas........

Understand your frustration, you just got an individual hat just being stupid. Even an 18 wheel tractor doesn't have a gross weight over 26,000. SO..
1) Go to a different DMV or get a different representative.
2) If they take the same position ask for it in writing with the supervisor's signature. They'll ask why and you just say it's your defense for ticket you're going to get. Don't rant and rave (be nice) but be insistent; you want that signed statement with the supervisor's signature and that person's rank.

most all semi tractors have a gross weight on tractor alone of 56000,and they have air brakes.The combined weight is what gets you in the cdl class

You have too much logic. I would have the officer in
charge put it in writing that my vehicle was to
light to qualify me for a test and drive it.

Was wonder about that also. Thinking about getting a single axle tractor to pull a 35 ft, 5th wheel trailer. Have a CDL, but no combo. Maybe I needed it when pulling it with my ton truck. Got a ticket one time from the DOT, Showed it to a highway patrol friend and he and had to look in two different manuels to find the law. He said we can not keep up on all the regs.

When my son got his CDL he took the test with a pickup and a gooseneck trailer. This was in wisconsin.

Bob

my beloved father who passed away in 1976 had a saying (The problem with this younger generation is they are educated beyond thier intelligence)

Any organization with employees will have some that have no problem giving a wrong answer rather than refer you to someone else. As Va Dave says go to a different office or same office and ask a competent person. I got my CDL A with my pick up and tandem dual trailer a few years ago here in NH, after having my B for many years. I took my written test, then showed up with my friend for the driving test. The DOT examiner simply checked registrations, saw the combination weight, and administered the test.

Do you have the truck and trailer licensed (plated) combination? If not they can take the weight of the trailer, add it to the truck, and ticket you for being over your registered weight, too. I'd just get the combination registration, schedule the road test and show up with it, it's a vehicle representative of what you expect to be driving. The truck alone doesn't qualify, but the combination does.

Then I'd save the cash and drop the combintaion registration next year, unless you're someplace you go by the DOT a lot.

I've been through a fair number, and they were all 12,000 steer and 38 or 40,000 rear, for a GVW of 50 or 52,000. Unless you're running flatbed, the extra GVWR isn't really worth the extra cost.

Why does common cense have to be special interest anymore.Jim

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I worked on the other side as a DOT Trooper. I've seen DMV come down with things that make absolutely no sense whatsoever and argued with them about it. Often times certain idiotic rules are "missed" by most of the guys. Unfortunately in your case it's the bureaucracy that's bogging you down. Keep trying, you'll find a way. In NYS we had car haulers with combos over 26K and trailers over 10K where the power unit wasn't even 18K! They ended up with "Limited use Class A", which is a category that doesn't exist!!!

I would try a different DMV office or even a different agent at the same DMV. Down here in WV, if you get the bald fat man at the Bridgeport office GO HOME. Come back tomorrow when he is working a different station. Go to Morgantown and visit the DMV there. Attempting to work with this individual is pointless and tedious. You will get nothing done and only get mad in the process. Most of the stuff he asked me to get was not necessary and the paperwork he requested was not required. The lady I met the following day was bewildered at what he was asking for.

So it may be a case of the person you are talking to. Try someone else. Better yet write your local legislator and if you have a good one, they love fixing stupid stuff like this.

Worked for me!

Aaron

A note from the DMV saying the truck is too light to take the test won't be worth the paper it is written on if you get pulled over.

They expect you to rent or borrow a proper truck to take the test in. Providing a truck to take the road test in is not the DMV's problem. It's yours, and you have to jump through their hoops.

I think as someone else suggested... find another examiner at another location. Towing a trailer over 10000#/4500KG is considered a heavy articulated vehicle and thus requires a Class A /Class 1 licence, regardless of the tow vehicle. There were guys here with goosenecks behind 3/4 ton trucks that got stoped at scales and because of their trailer weight were sent to get Class 1 licences...

Rod

Just went through basically the same thing and it's all in the wording. By that I mean you have to understand there is first the GVW of a vehicle and it has nothing to do with the GCW of the same vehicle with a trailer behind it. If the back of your regular license reads like it does here in NC it is good for ANY vehicle with a GVW of less than 26,001 lbs and can tow a vehicle with s GVW of less than 10,001 lbs. Beyond that the ONLY difference the actual weight will make is IF there is no actual GVW sticker on the vehicle or trailer, and/or in the case of the trailer the GVW is shown as over 10,001 lbs. If BOTH of the GVW stickers show the lesser weight of 26,001 or less and 10,001 or less the only thing they can actually do to you is give you a ticket for being overweight (if you actually are) wether you have a CDL or not. As the DMV Safety man told me as long as you have something 'more official than a letter from your momma' stating the mfg's listed GVW for that vehicle is less than or greater than 26,001 lbs, then that's all they can legally go by when it comes what you need in order to require a CDL. Now barring that official document the actual weight of the vehicle then comes into play and over means a CDL, under means your OK.

Too I hear people all the time saying air brakes require a CDL. Granted it's in the books for vehicles over 26,001 lbs GVW byt says nothing about them on vehicles below 26001 lbs. Dad's truck has a 25,000 GVW and has them, mine has a 26,000 GVW and has them and we have both been through the weight stations and been stopped for random inspections numerous times over the past 20 plus years and have never had a problem. The only problem I ever have is that though my truck has a 26,000 GVW sticker it typically weights over that, and I keep it tagged for 38,000 lbs so I can pull a small trailer and not be worried about being overweight. Even so I typically have over the 20,000 legal weight on my rear axel so a small ticket for being over my legal axel weight and being on the interstate is usually the order of the day. That's why I know how to get around the weight stations when I need to use the interstate, as there is a 10% grace over the 20,000 on the backroads and I'm good there.


In your case you ARE bound to get a CDL for the simple fact the GVW on your trailer is greater than 10,001 lbs, regardless of the combined weight. Your truck obviouslly isn't rated for a combined weight, if it was it would be listed onb the door sticker as the GCWR, so don't worry about that. Because of that the GVW of both the truck and trailer are all that matter. Now you can often get the GVW on a trailer changed/lowered by the mfg (I know Hudson will do it for you on their trailers if that's what you have, all you have to do is fill out a paper requesting them to derate it...I called and asked about one that was given to me by a buddy). That said you CAN get, and do need the class A, with the truck you currently have and your trailer, not because of anything to do with thr truck, not because of anything to as that DOES NOT MATTER, but simply because your trailer itself has a GVW of greater than 10,001 lbs. What I was told is that you get a regular CDL but that it would have a class 8 restriction meaning you couldn't drive say a big KW and a 53 foot trailer.

All of that said I'd do as others have suggested and find another DMV agent to talk to. Better yet do what I did and find one of your local truck driver training schools and call and ask their instructors. Those guys make their living doing this stuff and being a third party contractor have to cover their a$$es when they do the road tests, etc. That's what I finally had to do to get a straight answer about what I did or didn't need with my truck. Even then I got the same answer you did but after talking to the guy for a few minutes it finally dawned on him what was going on and he called the main DMV branch in Raleigh to get the letter of the law to make sure he did things right. In the end even the DMV guy he spoke with had to go back and actually read the regs to get it right. In the end the GCW means nothing unless the truck is rated with a GCW. If it's just rated with a GVW then 26,001 lbs and less no CDL and you can tow any trailer with it's own GVW of less than 10,001 lbs without a CDL. Go over the 26.001 on the truck alone and you need a class B CDL, go over the 10,001 on the trailer, REGARDLESS of the trucks weight and you automatically need a class A with a class 8 restriction if called for by the situation.

It's all long, complicated, and a royal PITA to deal with but having gone through it myself I know exactly how you feel. If you have any other questions please feel free to message me direct and maybe I can help out a little more. Good luck. Wayne

If you are an untested driver from south of the border, you have nothing to worry about.

Seems to me that all the motor vehicle codes for trucks are written by college grads working for the government and passed by career politicians who's only knowledge about trucks/trucking is to be able to point and say "OHHH Twuck....OHHHHH Big Twuck"!

Rick

Is there only one location where you can take the test? When I took mine here in Michigan,it was just a retired UPS driver in a private lot giving me the test. Apparently he's licensed by the state to do it. The guy bent over backwards to make sure I passed it.

For that matter,my Dad was transportation supervisor at the local school district and he was licensed or whatever,to give the test to potential new bus drivers.

Kind of the same logic. When I was a battlion motor Sargent. I had an M816 five ton wrecker. But I was not allowed to have a wrecker operator. But I was charged with bringing in. Any thing that broke down.Also had it for the crane on back. I even had to train someone in wrecker operations. Even though I was not allowed a wrecker operator. Went round and round with command. Those are the rules. Was all they would tell me. So in order to use it. I had to hang a road test sign on it. Which ment it could be on the road. But not picking anything up or hooking up to anything. I always wonder who makes the rules.

Write your State Representative, they like fixing these things for their constitutents, makes them feel useful. If more people wrote their State Representatives maybe they would be to busy to OR not feel the need to justify their job by passing useless laws. I have had two different representatives in two different states save my bacon when dealing with the DMV, wonder how the DMV feels when they actually have to ANSWER the question and justify the answer by citing the law, they probably get real nervious, they don't like being accountable.

we have legislated ourselves to death //// ,, you may want to jump into politics,. i know your pain too well ,, 15yrs ago i decided to try to change goverment ,, got elected as county commissioner in 2002 ,, now i serve on county council ... it is hard to change such a entrenched system , but i do what i can , and you must keep a cool head in order to prevail ,, on any law,, IMHO ... THE FEWER WORDS THE BETTER .. IF IT REQUIRES MORE THAN ONE PAGE OF PERIMETERS AND CLARIFICATIONS , IT SHOULD NOT EVEN BE CONSIDERED TO BECOME LAW

Simple solution: Get a friend with a heavy enough truck to use
during the test.No sense going crazy over these things.

HTH

Vito

(quoted from post at 08:40:40 12/15/11) Kind of the same logic. When I was a battlion motor Sargent. I had an M816 five ton wrecker. But I was not allowed to have a wrecker operator. But I was charged with bringing in. Any thing that broke down.Also had it for the crane on back. I even had to train someone in wrecker operations. Even though I was not allowed a wrecker operator. Went round and round with command. Those are the rules. Was all they would tell me. So in order to use it. I had to hang a road test sign on it. Which ment it could be on the road. But not picking anything up or hooking up to anything. I always wonder who makes the rules.

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Now Billy I'm just an old retired DAT (dedicated armor tech...not what you were thinking)( for those with inquiring minds who will ask most non tankers call tankers DATs claiming, because they don't know any better, that it means dumb azz tanker) and every unit I was in sent a couple of mechanics down to the local support maint unit that had wrecker operators and had them cross trained and licenced....not a problem. That worked clear up to 96 when I retired. Sounds to me like you had an officer who was more worried about his career than getting the job done.

Rick

In Oregon, you license the power unit for the CGVW and the trailer has a permanent license. The only weight requirement is the weight you license the power unit for. When I got my CDL I took the written test and then hired a private CDL instructor to come to our place to take the drive test. I think he charged around $70 or so which was well worth it. You might see if your state has a similar situation.

I got lucky many years ago and grand fathered into a CDL but have over the years had others who wanted a CDL ask if I would drive them to the test center and let them use my truck and I helped a few guys get there CDLs that way. So so you have a friend who has a truck he would let you drive for the test and take you in to do the test??

Laws are funny sometimes when pimple faced geeks are setting things up like CDL tests just to have a job., none of them probably never saw the inside of a truck maybe they go through a shop manual to make up questions??

I'm guessing the reason your truck don't qualify for testing is they haven't figured out how to test trucks like your that don't have air brakes, when upon the mandatory pre trip inspection you have to check for air leaks.

I used to have fun with the last truck I drove when the DOT cops pulled me over, and found out I didn't qualify for their free inspections.

where in pa are you located? theres a guy in the mansfield area with the last name wilson. He charges $125 to take road test and you use his truck and trailer hes also alot less strict than the d.o.t. cops

(quoted from post at 06:48:26 12/15/11) I think as someone else suggested... find another examiner at another location. Towing a trailer over 10000#/4500KG is considered a heavy articulated vehicle and thus requires a Class A /Class 1 licence, regardless of the tow vehicle. There were guys here with goosenecks behind 3/4 ton trucks that got stoped at scales and because of their trailer weight were sent to get Class 1 licences...

Rod

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You only need the condition 14 for trailer over 10,000 here...as long as the total combination is under 26,000 no Class 3 or 1 required.

So? What's stopping you from suing them? I would take them to court and make them change it so that ANY vehicle (or truck/trailer combo) that would require a CDL can be used as the test vehicle for your CDL...
8)