O.T. Old War Bird

JerryS

Well-known Member
One of the dozen or so remaining B-17 Flying Fortresses came to our town this week and offered the public a chance to see the old war bird up close. For those more adventurous and better-heeled than I they offered rides---at about $450 per ticket. This particular plane, the “Aluminum Overcast” was built in early 1945 and never actually saw action. It has been modified, customized and tricked-out in various ways, but it’s most certainly a B-17, and it just bristles with .50 cal machine guns coming out at every angle.
Inside, the most jolting realization is just how small the thing is. Two big guys almost can’t pass in the main tube. The gun holes are ridiculous---a man over 5 feet tall and weighing more than 120 pounds would have a hard time oozing into the ball turret or the tail gun. There are no frills, no insulation, no padding, just bare metal. Cold air can come in through a hundred different openings.
When I took the picture of the old gentleman in the gray jacket, he was 10,000 miles and 60 years away. For the longest time, he was quiet and had a strange far-away look on his face. Turned out he was sitting in “his” seat---that of the radio/communications man. When he came out of his reverie he explained how he found his broadcast frequency, and how he tapped out a morse code message on the telegraph key on the radio ledge. He said you had to be able to key 50 five-letter words per minute to be qualified as the signal man.
My impression was that a long trip in this thing would be cold, uncomfortable and claustrophobic. Add the very likely possibility that you could be shot out of the sky at any moment and you really begin to appreciate what those old guys did. I had invited to go along with me an older friend of mine, who was a crew member in both B-24s and B-17s, and who was in two of these that were shot up. One went down on the good side of the English Channel, and he parachuted into the English countryside. He declined the invite, however.
As a nice touch to this setting, there were several B-52s lazing around in the background, shooting touch- and-goes at Barksdale AFB just across the river. I had hoped to catch one in one of my photos but they were a little too far away.
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Great pictures of a truly remarkable machine for its era. Think of the technology available when that old girl was designed and built, and the people who sacrificed to put all those rivets it place, let alone the guys who flew in thwm.
 
Nice shots of a "ol warbird.

The old Boeing archives had lots of pictures of B-17 that returned from Germany all shot up. Some were so badly damaged I don"t see how they could still
fly but fly they did and they made it back. I saw one that had what looked like three stringers on each side holding the entire empenage on! Everything else just ahead of the empenage was shot away and it looked like the controls were shot away also.
 
GOD BLESS THE USA. GOD BLESS THOSE MEN AND WOMEN WHO BUILT AND FLEW THOSE BIRDS. GOD Bless that man who sat in that Radio OPS station. This keyboard can not put into words what that must have been like to see.

My Grandpa landed on Omaha. Lived to be a hard working Midwest farmer, laborer, family man.

Thank you all you VETS out there in Tractor Land.
This country was built on you, the man AND WOMEN who won the war. You provided the freedom that i enjoy everyday. The freedom that allows me to voice my opinions here. Your type means the world to me and this country. I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.
 
My mothers husband flew 34 missions in the flying fortress just like that. I would scrape up the money some way some how if he could just get back in one. he is now in nursing home and it just seems out of the question to get him out. A few years ago we took him to Halls Air Base Veterans Musuem near Dyersburg TN. it was a training base during war, he did enjoy that. After the war he came home to WI to farm but flying was in the blood so he sold the farm and spent the next 60 plus years at Palmyra Wi airport teaching hundreds to fly and mechanicing on everybodys planes. THANKS FOR THE PICS ! where did you see the plane? Scottz PS Thanks to all Vets
 
This was in Shreveport, LA. This plane goes around all over the country offering tours and flights. I googled "Aluminum Overcast" and saw that over the next week or two they will be in Fayetteville, Ark.; Little Rock, Ark., and Olive Branch, Miss. They aren't showing their 2012 tour yet.
 
I would imagine the crew had electrically heated suits that plugged into the planes electrical system the same as other bombers. My dad was the only survivor of a Halifax 4 engine bomber and he was the tail gunner. The entire length of the fuselage was ammunition for the tail turret. 4 x 1200 rounds a minute. It made it a chore to get to the tail turret. The tail gunners main purpose however was to warn of other aircraft. My dads crew had a rule not to allow any other planes to fly directly behind them. He remembered coming back from a bombing run and looking up only to see a huge hole in the turret above him. On his fifth mission he was blown out of the plane with the bombs still on board. He suffered a broken back from a piece of the turret ring. He was a couple month's shy of his 21st birthday.
 
can you imagine trying to gitt up'n'down in them LEATHER SHEEPSKIN coats and pants they wore to keep warm??? Note the YELLOW OXYGEN bottles for high and COLD altitude. Later B-17's had "electrical" flying suits that plugged into 28V 400cycle AC. I was surprized how the released the bombs, kinda pulled a "string" and the bombs fell out. Occasionally a bomb would "hang" they'd be kickin' the bomb to gitt-itt un-strung. B-29's were pressurized ........frosty Dell
 
I don't think they wore the sheep skin coats when on a mission. More likely they wore a flying suit. It's something like -60 deg's. at altitude.
 
Good pics. An old neighbor whom I custom baled for was a crew chief on a B 17. He was in the Pacific.
 
It had to be awe inspiring to see 1000's of B-17s, with P-51's and P-47's in the sky flying into Germany..

USAAF by day with precision bombing and RAF by night..

All with one purpose: "Win the War"
 
Thanks for the pictures. I'm a huge fan of WWII aircraft.

I think that picture of the gent sitting at the radio op's position tells the whole story. You can see in his face that he's back in the skies over Europe.

I can't even imagine the fortitude and discipline that took. Humbles me.
 
I can remember those, and other types of aircraft, forming up before flying over the English Channel.

Although very young, I can still remember the Americans arriving, the first Baseball match I saw on our Cricket/Soccer Field and how kind they all were to us little English Kids.

Still very grateful to all Americans, we really needed you then

Alont [Bit overcome]
 
(quoted from post at 08:20:59 12/01/11)

Still very grateful to all Americans, we really needed you then

Alont [Bit overcome]

Many of the younger generation do not have a clue.

Last summer my mom bought my dad a ride in her for his birthday. If I remember right there was a discount for being a vet, or disabled vet. His only condition to going was that my boys had to come watch him go. The kids thought it was great. Watching the cold start procedure on the big radials was neat too, walking through the engines, fire bottles...
 
What can anyone say about those man.I went and saw a B17 & B29 took the grandchilden.Met some of the boys who flew in them.Boys out men back.God bless them all.
 
Great photos of the B17 from several different perspectives.

Got a rare opportunity several years ago at the Confederate Air Force in Galveston, TX.

Did a walk around of their B17 just before they started the engines.

Over the years I've talked to several veterans who flew in those "flying fortress" bombers and have heard some remarkable stories.

Over ten years ago I researched my father's B17 story and created a website for all the crewmembers' families.

At the time there were 3 remaining airmen still alive and willing to share their experience.

Got really close to my father during that period of time and sure do miss him now.

The photo below was taken after the a bombing mission on Rome, Italy.

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All of them are gone now, but their families and friends are forever grateful for what they did as such young men.
 
I was actually "wounded" at a gun station during a B-17 sortie. The Collings Foundation 'Nine-O-Nine' was near us and my wife and I (both private pilots) went for a ride in it on our 20th wedding anniversary. It was pretty turbulent and I sailed weightless down a passage way (they let you walk all through the plane during flight) and smacked my forehead on a 50 cal gun mount. Blood running down my face, it was GREAT! Stood up through the open turtle deck in the back (not for people with a toupe). We even flew formation for a short time with a C-47 that happened by. Video taped the whole thing. One of the most memorable experiences of my life.

Jim
 
James' dad is in the center back, wearing the .45. He was the bombardier and was "sworn" to protect the Norden bomb sight at all costs and always had a gun.

The oldest crew member, the pilot, was in his twenties, 27, I think. They called him "Pops". He's the first man on the left, back row. His name was Fitzpatrick.

The youngest had just turned 19. Front row, far right. Nicknamed "the kid". He was the tail gunner. Unfortunately, he didn't make it home. I think his name was Guilfoil. James will correct me if I have it wrong.
 
Those planes weren't nicknamed the "flying fortress" for nothing. They were able to take an incredible amount of punishment and stay in the air.

I remember one story of a B-17 that limped home. The ground crew quit counting bullet holes when the got to the fuselage and had already counted over 900 bullet holes.

Those men weren't large in physical size, but man, what they did is amazing.
 
My uncle Frank was a tail gunner on one. He went on an honor flight this fall to see the memorial. The ball turrent gunner & him have been friends every since the war.
 
The greatest generation. All of the liberties we enjoy today are owed to them. I had 3 uncles who served in the war. One of them trained to be a gunner on a B24. He had to take a test where they would flash photos of fighter planes and he had to indentify them instantly. He scored 98 out of 100 and failed. You had to have a perfect score. Another uncle flew 17's and 24's, and later flew fighters like the P61 and on to jets.
 
I've been in that old girl myself...and the one thing that really struck me was the diameter of the fuselage being smaller than I had anticipated. At 6'3" I didn't fit anywhere on that plane. What a great piece of history and it's great it remains a flying tribute to all those that have served.

I did love the view from the waist gun positions though. I bet those old Browning .50 cals really sent lead outbound.
 
My brother was a tail gunner on a B24. Average life expectancy in battle was 3 minutes. He survived, primarily because they crash-landed in Ireland and couldn't (didn't want) to get back.
 
I know a guy who flies a 2 seater P-51, occasionally gives rides. I'd like to do it but I'm not sure I want to go 300 mph in something the same age as my F-14. (tractor)
 
I think that was the factory that covered several acres- the roof was painted to look like an extension of the residential area it was next to. Streets, house roofs, shrubbery and trees. Very hard to tell it wasn't real, from the air.
 
My son and I did go through the B-17 "Sentimental Journey" a couple of years ago. Very cool, didn't get to see it fly though.
 
Durring WW-2 i was at Heathfield England and they had a bunch of old war birds, Believe you Me they got the job done, and when we invaded Omaha Beach they got rid of a lot of the enemy.
 
They wore electrically heated sheepskin coats, pants, and boots for those high altitude missions over Europe. They had sheepskin hats also but I don"t believe they were electrically heated.
 
The Aluminium Overcast is owned and operated by the Expermental Aircrft Association, They tour with it through out the year but she will always be in Oshkosh Wisconsin the last week of July for their convention and fly-in. Any one who has any interest in Airplanes should go to Oshkosh at least once in their life. They usually have a pretty good warbird contingent, an air show every afternoon with some warbirds flying, one day will be mostly warbirds and military appreciation. Sometimes they do USAF or USN heritage flights with WWII, Korean Conflict, Veit Nam and Current aircraft in formation. 2011 They had the only flyable B-29 fly in, in 2010 they had about 30 DC-3s in formation over the feild.
 


I agree, Wisbaker! The Oshkosh show is amazing.

I took my son a few years ago and we had a great, great time.

We were walking around the military section, dawdling along and gawking like regular hicks from the countryside - planes were buzzing around with noise like you'd expect, when a modern American fighter jet took off and came right over us - kicked it into overdrive (I guess that's what it was) and blasted into an almost vertical curve upwards from just right above us...

It happened so fast, we weren't even on the "scared" scale!!! It just shook both of us plumb into our bones!! It was so amazingly awesome at the same time!

I don't see how any terrorist in the world could think about stirring up trouble after seeing a taste of some of that!! It was an awesome, awesome thing...


Howard
 
My old dad was a aircraft mechanic in the navy and worked mostly on carrier planes,but some of his stories of seeing those things land all shot to pieces really makes you wonder how those guys went back up the next day. Had to be some special kind of guys to get into what basicly amounted to a tin can target day after day and do what they did.
 


I agree, Wisbaker! The Oshkosh show is amazing.

I took my son a few years ago and we had a great, great time.

We were walking around the military section, dawdling along and gawking like regular hicks from the countryside - planes were buzzing around with noise like you'd expect, when a modern American fighter jet took off and came right over us - kicked it into overdrive (I guess that's what it was) and blasted into an almost vertical curve upwards from just right above us...

It happened so fast, we weren't even on the "scared" scale!!! It just shook both of us plumb into our bones!! It was so amazingly awesome at the same time!

I don't see how any terrorist in the world could think about stirring up trouble after seeing a taste of some of that!! It was an awesome, awesome thing...


Howard
 
another thing that always amazed me is that they so reliably built so many of these with what basically amounted to unskilled labor.My mother,her mom,and her two sisters took a bus from elk city to oklahoma city to work building these during the war. Stayed in what amounted to barracks. It seems odd that you rarely hear of one having problems due to manufacturing defects. It was bound to have happened some you would think.But ive never heard any hard figures.
 
I have a good friend who was a radio operator also. When bombs got stuck He was the closest to the bomb rack and would climb down the steel ladder where there was a large screwdriver they would use to pry the stuck one loose.
On a practice bomb run in NJ, a practice bomb got stuck, and when He pried the ladder came loose and He and the bomb went out the bomb bay together.Lucky his 'chute was on tight.
Said it took a while for him to live down "shutting down the practice bombing area"
 
I got a chance to ride the Collins Foundation B-17 several years ago. There were no creature comforts except for the Plexiglas windows at the waist gun positions. Pretty noisy too, but what a fabulous ride. While taking off, I tried to imagine what it was like for the thousands of former airmen who flew into German and other areas, knowing that almost 50 thousand did not come home. My hat's off to all the combat veterans in all the theaters of war. I told my classes in school to teach their children to honor all those who sacrificed. God bless them.
C. L.
 
Dad spent 4 years in Polebrook England with the 351 BG. Dad was ground crew that did their best to keep them in the air. When I was young I use to listen to him and his buddies tell about what happened when they were over there. I told them at one time they should have writen a book.I have a picture of my dad and several of his buddies standing next to a B17 called Dinah Might.
 
That is amazing . What a fine aircraft ! The nose art girl looks airbrushed but the airbrush was invented before the 1920s, so that fits. Just look at the engine behind the prop. This is fantastic.These pics made my whole week !Thank You !
 

Any one know what happened to the one that the Confederate Air Force had? It flew over my place a few years ago, What a sound! All that they show on their website now are fighters.
 
We have B-17 "PICADILLY LILLY" at Planes of Fame in Chino, CA... It is a ways off from flying yet... but they have plans!

Wilber Richardson was a ball gunner in B17s and he keeps close tabs on Picadilly Lilly. There are other fellows there that were crew members as well.

Me? I'm restoring a Japanese D4Y3 "JUDY" single engine dive bomber at Planes of Fame... maybe in about a year we will taxi it... A great project for me as I love sheet metal work! I make everything it needs.

B17E "SWAMP GHOST" is on display as well.

duey
 

Not to belittle the B17 or B24 and the aircrews that flew them. Is anybody here familiar with the specs, war records and crews that flew the mighty Lancaster bomber ?
 

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