Can someone explain this? Kinda long.......

I was reading the post below about buying a new truck vs a used truck and I've got a question I'd like someone to answer. In a nutshell it's this. What does everyone have against buying something used????

Running a business myself I can understand the whole deptreciation thing but even then I don't understand the mentality of "buying new" is the only way to go.

I say this for several reasons. One is that when you buy a used truck it's worth X amount, say $10,000 and not $40,000. Even so the cost can still be depreciated out over time just like a new one. Maybe our illustrious waste of a government will give you 'extra' tax benefits, EPA incentives, etc, etc, but there are still write offs there with the used one. Now, if you buy the $10,000 truck you can typically drive it for a few years, and if you take care of it, it won't lose that much value if you decide to sale it. On the other hand with the $40,000 truck it becomes a used truck the minute you drive it off the lot and loses a significant portion of it's value from the word go. Two years or so down the road it's a well used truck and worth maybe 1/2 what you paid for it, if your lucky. In other words with a used truck you may not have all the incentives up front tax wise, etc but on the tail end your only 'losing' say $2000 for a few years of use vs the $20,000 your gonna lose on the new one. And that's not taking into account the money your forced to spend to keep full coverage on a financed vehicle vs being able to keep only liability on a used one for the time owned if you so chose.

As far as repairs, on the older vehicles many people could do all but the most major repairs themselves if they were even the slightest bit mechanically inclined. On the new stuff your all but forced to take it to the dealership, or to a repair shop to get anything done due to the thoudands of dollars woth of diagnostic equipment needed to do anything. Gone are the days of listening to an engine and having a good idea of what's wrong, now there are dozens of sensors, several ECM's, etc, etc. . Not to mention with the newer emission requirements coming about things like the particulate filters, etc, etc are all gonna need routine maintenance/replacement (usually expensive according to everything I've read concerning the technology) that old exhaust systems had no need of beyond a possible muffler and tailpipe replacement at some point. In either case repairs can usually be written off the year they are performed so there's nothing to gain by buying new here.

Now I see the reason given that with a new truck you 'know where it's been', how it's been treated, etc. That I understand, but look at it this way. If you bought an older truck for $10,000, there's nothing keeping you from taking part of the $30,000 you 'saved' and having the engine rebuilt, having the suspension checked, having the interior redone, having it repainted, etc, etc. In the end you wind up with a "new" old truck with all the same benefits of a new one, at alot less cost. An added benefit is that all of the repairs you do to it are also a write off, just like any other repair would be.

What got me to thinking about all of this is two customers who I have restored/refurbished equipment for over the years. When it comes to buying equipment for business use, be it a truck or a tractor, basically the same rules apply across the board. One about 10 years back had Dad and I redo a 70B Bucyrus Erie crane. Between parts and labor they had about $175,000 invested in the machine vs close to a million and a half dollars plus to buy a new machine with the came capabilities/capacity. What they got for their money was new or reman parts in critical areas such as the house rollers, bottom rollers, etc. It got them new bushings/bearings in key wear points, oversized pins in the tracks to make them like new, new linings on all of the brakes, new cables all around, etc, etc, etc. Basically we set the machine apart, rebuilt it from the ground up, and except for an engine rebuild addressed everything that was needed to make the machine like new. When it was over they had a machine that was new in all areas that needed to be new, with another 20 plus years of life expectancy on all those parts just like they got out of the origional parts. Basically a like new machine for something like $1,325,000 less than a brand new one would have cost them.

We also redid a D9G for another customer. That was a complete radiator back restore that included a recored radiator, rebuilt engine and transmission, new steering clutches, rebuilt final drives, a complete new track system, new seat, wiring, etc, etc, etc. About the only thing not touched was the ring and pinion and they showed no appreciable wear so replacing them would have been a waste of money. This was all done a little at the time, over a period of about 5 years, as his schedule and budget would allow the down time. When all was said and done he had a 'new' D9 sized machine for around $200,000 vs spending, again, nearly a million for a brand new one. Had he bought a new one he would probably still be paying on it, while the one that we rebuilt has been sitting most of the time, and not costing him a dime, since the economy went South.

In both cases the companies budgeted in the repairs in advance and when the machines were complete their expense was over. From that point on when/if the machine was setting idle it wasn't costing them anything. Now had they bought new machines and financed them, every minute that machine was setting idle was costing them money. Too both companies new exactly what had been done to their machines. In fact, they were all continuing to operate with proven technology vs taking a chance buying a new machine, with 'unproven' technology that could possibly have caused them even more costly problems.

Seen that scenario happen too. Customer was running an older dragline that we had rebuilt for them. With proper maintenace they could have gotten another 20-30 years out of it. Instead they used $hit for grease due to the 'bean counters' that wouldn't foot the bill for the good stuff. As a result they had numerous problems and eventually opted to buy a newer machine, by about 30 years, in hopes of 'solving' their problems. When all was said and done they spent nearly $250,000 on a machine that by the account of the operator was moving about 1/2 the material per day the old one was, and using about 3 times the fuel to do it. Not to mention all the down time they had due to problems with the electronic engine controls, repair parts having to ship from overseas, dealership snafus like leaving the oil out of a major gearbox (because the 'new' machine included a maintenance contract), etc, etc, etc. Basically could have spent maybe a million and a half for a new machine or spent a little of that money on buying a good quality grease for the old machine and come out ALOT better off all around. Instead they spent enough money buying a 'newer' machine to have rebushed the older one again, bought good quality grease, and kept it going, for another 20 years plus, and had a machine that would not have had electronics problems even the OEM couldn't diagnose, parts only available from overseas, etc, etc.

I guess what has beought this whole line of questioning to mind, beyond reading the truck post, is that this whole "buy new" mentality has been the downfall of many, many companies in the past few years with the economy falling out like it did. Instead of buying and paying for a used piece of equipment they all bought new and when the work stopped they were still paying on equipment that wasn't making them any money. As a result many of the machines were repossessed. So, instead of having a 'cheaper', used, paid for piece of equipment setting there, that had more than likely already paid for itself, they now had no machine, and even worse all the money paid toward the machine until that point was also gone, wasted.....

Granted I've used machines here as examples because I've seen the whole new -vs- used scenario plaid out alot of times over the years and the consequenses of both for the customers involved. The thing is, regardless of wether the vehicle involved is a truck, tractor, or whatever, the same principles apply pretty much across the board. Now granted there are times I can understand the need to buy new, and in some cases it can be justified and is a good thing. What I have a problem with is the whole mentality of 'it has to be new' to work, to be reliablem or whatever. That simply isn't true. That 20 year old truck or tractor, or whatever was once considered the latest, the greatest, and the most reliable too. With a little TLC and a few new wear parts it can once again be just as 'new' and reliable as a brand new one......So why the mentality that the only 'relable' machine has to be Brand New??????
Just doesn't make sense to me.........Can someone please explain what seems to be the prevailing mentality in the US nowdays that NEW is great and USED is just 'old and outdated junk'?????? Inquiring minds want to know....

NCWayne, I am with you here, Slightly over 3 yrs ago I bought an 01 F350 4x4 DSL/Auto Crewcab, longbox w/ 105k miles on it got it for slightly less than halfprice of a new one. New was 48K my cost off the lot was 22K. Also I got and extended warranty offered by the dealer that took care of a the few things that crepped up on it a couple of times it paid for what it cost.The exposure to a smaller liability is better than the larger amt of a new rig and not having it depreciate 5k when you drive it off the lot the first time.

NCWayne, I am with you here, Slightly over 3 yrs ago I bought an 01 F350 4x4 DSL/Auto Crewcab, longbox w/ 105k miles on it got it for slightly less than halfprice of a new one. New was 48K my cost off the lot was 22K. Also I got and extended warranty offered by the dealer that took care of a the few things that crepped up on it a couple of times it paid for what it cost.The exposure to a smaller liability is better than the larger amt of a new rig and not having it depreciate 5k when you drive it off the lot the first time.
Later,
John A.

In my experience! New can be as bad a used. Sometime in the last year or so; there was a posting asking about a used truck, & if anybody had experienced problems with that particular model. & asking weather it would be worth buying. The case vehicle was a mid 2000's chevrolet truck. Dont remember how many miles; but I went through the file folder on my 2005 Chev 3500, 4wd, reg cab, dsl, non dually. I went right down the list of repairs (warranty + non warranty). I spent like an hour typing everything with dates, & milage on the post. About 25 - 30 different repairs in 125,000 miles.

I factory ordered, & took delivery with 6 miles on the odometer. Just a basic recap. The truck is on its 4th radio, & that one is going out as I type this. The amber cab lights are leaking rain water for about the 4, or 5th time. The 72 month dual batteries have been replaced for the second time in 6 years! & GM wouldnt cover them! & if the batteries get low; the truck will start, & then shut off after about 5 seconds, & doesnt even tell You why, or what happened! ANY OTHER VEHICLE WILL STAY RUNNING TILL YOU GET SOMEWHERE TO GET A NEW SET OF BATTERIES!!! It had to be towed both times because I couldnt tell the batteries were low. I thought it had to be something else. The list could go on for several more minutes; But You get the idea. One more thing... LED lights are supposed to last forever. In 40,000 miles I had 7 go out in the dash at separate times. Finally went to get them replaced. The bill was for $860. You cant just take them out & replace them now. They are soildered in! GM requires You replace the electronic item they are attached too!

"NEW" DOESNT MEAN A THING TO ME ANYMORE!!! WITH VEHICLES IT MEANS "FUEL EFFICIENT" JUNK!

I may go even longer in my ranting, yet, I'm all about used. You ever read the Old Testament? The children of Israel had a good thing going. They would be winning wars. Economics were propering. Everything was perfect, and what did they do? They updated! They took NEW and IMPROVED gods, and how did that work out? It's no diffent with anything else. Updating doesn't always improve things. You know that ever new improvement added to vehicles means a few years of working out the issues that come with it. You can ask any 19 year old college girl, "Bob Huntress is old and outdated". Old trucks fit who I am, old and proven. I have a 1992 Chevy 2500 extended cab 4x4 pickup. It has 330,000 miles on it. I must start with the clear and undeniable reality, it is paid!!! I can't over stress that. A car note for a new truck with the same is not cheap. Sure, I've replaced the engine and manual transmission, but still with all work down over the eight plus years that I have owned it doesn't equal a fraction of what a payment for a new truck would be. I for one wish we stopped always trying to discard the old time tested and reliable for the new, at some point people won't be satisfied with disrespecting my truck and want to start replacing me.

BTW, this summer I hauled my Case 990 from Orange Texas to Toone, TN with the ancient artifact the way the pioneers did in 1992, with my dependable servicable 3/4ton pickup.

"FUEL EFFICIENT"

Like a broken clock is right twice a day, a truck that won't start burns less fuel then an old pickup!

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and have never bought a new piece of equipment or vehicle, and do not plan to start. I cannot justify a payment every month, especially when I am trying to make a living by something as uncertain as farming, that payment might be the straw that broke the camels back. I do not know how $40,000+ can be justified for a pickup, especially when it is going to be traded in on another payment sponge in 2-4 years. I have been driving my `69 for 11 years now, even with the fact I have rebuilt the engine twice, and the tranny and axle once, I know for sure I have spent MUCH less than making payments for 11 years would have cost, and I can keep on fixing her for a long time yet.

Josh

Ok by buying new you are in fact stimulating the econemy for starters much more so than buying used. 2nd in my area a used 3/4 or 1 ton has been abused hard by a farmer, contractor or some hot rod kid so you are buying someone elses problems. I know of one 3/4 ton that I would buy used when the original owner trades it in the local area. One out of thousands!

If you own a business your equipment has to start and run when needed. 2 ways to do that is newer stuff in good condition or having doubles of everything. Both ways are going to cost about the same and as a consumer if your equipment looks bad I'm not about to call you. The guy who cares enough to have better trucks and equipment gets my vote every time. He may be more expensive but if he's cutting corners in his business whats he cutting on the job site?

Now me I buy things used cause thats what my fixed income allows. Can I buy something new? Sure, but with getting the farm back on the map it would cut into my ability to buy things I need without going to the bank. Then I would be paying the banker twice. Is a new truck in my future???? Heck YES!!!! But not right now.

Rick

(quoted from post at 00:17:59 11/27/11) Ok by buying new you are in fact stimulating the econemy for starters much more so than buying used. 2nd in my area a used 3/4 or 1 ton has been abused hard by a farmer, contractor or some hot rod kid so you are buying someone elses problems. I know of one 3/4 ton that I would buy used when the original owner trades it in the local area. One out of thousands!

If you own a business your equipment has to start and run when needed. 2 ways to do that is newer stuff in good condition or having doubles of everything. Both ways are going to cost about the same and as a consumer if your equipment looks bad I'm not about to call you. The guy who cares enough to have better trucks and equipment gets my vote every time. He may be more expensive but if he's cutting corners in his business whats he cutting on the job site?

Now me I buy things used cause thats what my fixed income allows. Can I buy something new? Sure, but with getting the farm back on the map it would cut into my ability to buy things I need without going to the bank. Then I would be paying the banker twice. Is a new truck in my future???? Heck YES!!!! But not right now.

Rick

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Stimulating the economy? Yeah, that is why our economy is in the gutter, because nobody buys new anymore? Seems to me that when things used to last longer, our economy was better off.

As far as used trucks being trashed, I think you need to look harder. You might have to take a trip to the nearest city, but probably 90% of the 3/4 and 1 ton diesels bought new nowadays are pavement princesses that have never had a trailer hooked on them. And if you buy an older used truck, you can fix the problems and still be money ahead.

Some of the best, most professional businesses I have ever seen or worked for ran older equipment. If you own older equipment, pay a decent mechanic, and well maintained older trucks and equipment usually look a lot classier than new stuff. Most newer trucks have as high of failure rate as a PROPERLY MAINTAINED older truck. You cannot flog on an old truck and expect it to live with no maintenance, no warranty, remember? And you think keeping older equipment running is cutting corners in a business? It should be a mark of someone who does what is needed to get the most bang for his buck.

So you drive a used vehicle because it is cheaper? So do I, and I still get where I need to go, so I see no need to pay more to get the exact same thing. And the same thing applies to ag equipment, going to the banker to get AC and a radio sure does not seem like the best way to keep a farm "on the map".

If no one bought new where would the used stuff come from?
When I drive uo into a customer's driveway in a late model pickup to give them an estimate it doesn't look like I'm a shlep. It looks like I'm successful. And perceptions and salesmanship is a big part of my getting work.
And my pickup doesn't leak oil in their driveway - pretty important when you're working on a fancy home.
I work hard at my job and really don't want to have to spend my weekend installing a new tranny in my pickup so I can get to work on Monday.
If I have to work I'd rather spend my time working as a carpenter where I make about 3 times what I'd make with my limited mechanic skills.
Maybe I've just been lucky but the new pickups I've owned have been totally reliable. This makes me more reliable and I get more work because of it.
And again, going back to the tax part of it, If I can't show enough business expenses I just pay more in taxes. So my choice is give Uncle Sam more of my money or ride around in a nice new pickup. What would you do?
I know it's not quite that simple but you get the idea.
I understand that buying new is not in everyone's budget and not in everyone's best interest.
But for some people, given their financial, social or other factors, buying new is what works best for them.
Who could have a problem with that?

"What does everyone have against buying something used?" I read the posts below and didn't arrive at the conclusion that "everyone" had something against buying used trucks. My three sons each drive one of my old trucks which, on average have over 200k on each one and they're still going strong. As for me, I'm 75 years old, have plenty of money (all those "senior citizen" discounts) and I'll be damned if I'll spend a minute driving anything used. Period. Come the time when I "need" a new truck, I'll buy one. And turn around and give my "Used" truck to one of my sons. That's the way it works. Kind of like "ARTS WAY". Most of the used trucks around me have pulled sileage wagons, bale wagons, carried dogs, little calves, been smoked in, spit on, crap all over and in them and when people go to sell them they want a small fortune for them. Then they turn around, buy a new truck and start all over. To each his own.

OK You got me; Except for the tow truck which burned 3 +/- times the fuel on each of the 5, or 6 times it had to be towed (total).

New is not always better at least heavy equipment wise,but in some instances it is being forced upon you.
A local contractor does alot of Federal and State road and bridge work. The bid packages now require a large percentage of the equipment to be used on the job to be tier 4 compliant. SO if he wants to get the job,he has to go buy or rent many millions of dollars of the new emission compliant equipment to meet the stipulations of the contract, even though he has a yard full of well maintained older equipment.

I don't like the 'hit' that a new vehicle takes when driven off the lot, BUT, I am thinking about a Compressed Natural Gas truck. We have 2 fill stations in Omaha now. New, on that set up, would be the only way to go.

i dont think its really a case of being against used, but as previously stated sometimes its a case of the gov getting involved and havint to be emmession compliant,sometimes its the need to drive up to the beer joint in the latest and greatest, first, sometimes the truck is commercial and will spend all its time on the road and needs to be new, the other thing is the difference between used, and old, used , say 2009 back to mid 90's now days these, have lots of miles on them, there full of cheaply made chinese electrical sensors and poorly designed mechanical componets now they will have lots of little p.i.a. problems, going to old, say pre 90, and you will probably need to invest serious money in rebuilding worn componets and bodys, which is what i did, now what i got was a fully reliable old style truck they drive and ride like one,they will climb a mountain if you dont get in a hurry, and they get poor gas milage non of which bothers me, but they wont have power window, gps for those that didnt learn to read a map in elementery school, heated leather seats didnt exist when these were built, and the paint jobs are single stage both have regular white budd wheels on them, no pimp mobile wheels here lol, its all up to what you want, or need to drive or can build, if you just need to go to the big box store on the weekends and impress the jones next door a pickup that costs 40 to 60 grand is just the ticket, if your out here and sometimes wind up off road with the nearest human 40 miles away, maybe a nice lookin solid old pickup you have 6 to 7 grand in is better

I never buy new cars or trucks and the #1 reason is our county tax. #2 is I have a good source of used cars and trucks to buy from and have had good service from them all.

Fram tractors I buy new. I tried the used tractors and was nickle and dimed with parts and down time. I work off farm and farm too. When I need to do work on the farm it's gotta be ready to run.

If I had the money and could make it pay I would buy new. You know what you have, and minus the exceptions, you will have a reliable vehicle. When you buy used, unless you buy from the first owner, and know it was taken care of well and treated well, then it's a crap shoot. The vehicle may be the best vehicle yoo've ever owned. It may nickel and dime you to death. It oculd leave you stranded 15 times because the computer doesn't want the truck to start for some unknown reason or the fuel pump went out again, etc.

Wayne i did not read all the post in detail but here are some reasons. 1. around here they want the price of new for used.2. Equiped the way you want all you find used is 4 cylinder and you want the optional 6 cyl.

I haven't had too much luck with used vehicles. Or used tractors. When I want to buy a new vehicle, I generally get a nnalert, or 0 percent. Same with tractors. I looked for years for a small 4wd loader tractor. Everything I looked at was within a 2 or 3000 of new. With 1000+ hours. I gave up and bought a new kubota. I plan on buying a new 4wd pickup next year. It will replace a 2005 truck. 7 or 8 years.

I am with you Wayne. Twice in my life I have gone to a dealership fully intending to buy a new vehicle.
First I went down to VW Garage to buy a Jetta turbo diesel.Salesman tells Me that what I wanted would cost a extra $1000 and when I drove it off the lot it would be almost worthless because of the failure of GM diesels destroyed the market.
Second In the 90's did two good jobs back to back and decided to go down to the Chevy garage to buy a brand new pickup. Tell salesman I want 1/2 ton, long bed v8,air,vinyl seats,and rubber floormats. Long story short, He tells Me I have to buy the Sierra to get a V8 along with carpet and cloth seats.What I needed was a W/T package with V6. Walked away completely disillusioned that you can't have what you want.I even thought that you could sit down with the list of options and order what you want. Never went back, never had a new vehicle.

Ron

I agree with you, but it often depends on how much a vehicle is driven, too. While I need a dependable truck, (I farm full-time, and sometimes have the family in the tuck - you don't want to be stranded with little kids!) I can't pay the $35-45000 that a new one costs. Especially since mine only sees 5000 miles a year or so. On the other hand, I'd have a very hard time NOT buying new when replacing my manure spreader. Good used ones are hard to find, and I use it every day. I run at least one of my tractors every day too, but have enough of them that I don't need new.

10000 for a used truck might get you one with 150000 miles on it, wore out suspensions, and beat all to heck, or a 20 year old truck, around here any way! BTW, I usually keep a truck for 4 or 5 years, and the one I have now, by NADA is still worth more than what I paid for it.

I buy a new business truck every 4 years and drive it about 35K per year. I doubt if it is as cost effective as buying a 2 yo truck, but do it because I cannot afford not to have reliable transportation to service my customers. I look at what each day of downtime costs me and justify that in my head.

I went with a friend of mine. So he could buy a new truck. Almost had a heart attack at the price of new trucks. Didn't see anything under thirty thousand.

He gets his new Chevy at around fifty thousand. One week later the transmission drops out. Then all hell broke loose. Seven months later he is driving his old turck. That the new one was supposed to replace. I think in seven months the shop has had his for four. But the payments keep on coming.

I drive a 1990 F150. Found a 1979 150 that I am now trying to get. You can keep the new stuff.

I'm with you. I have an '89 Chevy Xcab, long box 4X4 that does everything I want it to do. I bought it on an auction five years ago for $800. It showed 259K miles on the ododmeter. When I drove it home from the auction, I found the ododmeter was stuck on 259K. I fixed the odometer, but I haven't a clue how many miles it actually has on it.

It's perfectly healthy mechanically, still looks good, and does everything I ask it to. Total repairs since I've owned it, not counting tires, have been less then $400. So why would I want to blow $40K on a new pickup?

In the aviation business you can buy a brand aircraft for 45 to 90 million dollars. You fly it 6 years and have to overhaul it at a cost of about 2 - 3 million dollars. The older it gets it cost more due to having to do more detailed inspections. You can go out and buy a used MD 90 for a million and fly it another 10 years and overhaul it once or twice, but you really come out on it because it is the most fuel effecient aircraft ever built.

Only reason I ever saw for buying new was if it sat outside all the time where I had to look at it. As long as it's in the garage,I don't have to look at it and be reminded it's not new. When I'm in it driving it,can't see the outside then either.

Wayne i am definitely not anti used, but there are times to spend your $, and times to hold back. For me a vehicle falls under the spend category. The RR pretty much pays for our vehicles between the mileage and travel pay, and when im riding any where between 6 to 12hrs to work i want the newest/nicest/most reliable thing i can put my butt in. I bought my tractor new, but again at the time anything used that was nice was within 3 to 5k of new, and anything affordable was total junk. Now times are different, as far as used tractors. Everything else i have is used, VERY used. My combine is a 69, planter is early 70s, in fact the newest thing i have on the farm is a 92 Hitachi 200ex. It just comes down to what makes financial sense for each person.

I have bought the last two cars new. Used ones seem to have high miles and still pretty high prices. Autos always seem to be a losing proposition no matter which way you go.
Here in ohio you also have to deal with salt eating cars all up.
Heavy equip. Is a totally different beast then a car as i feel they were designed to be rebuilt. But maybe the newest stuff is throw away designed too?

Yep, most of the newer stuff is being designed with an estimated life of about 10 years tops. In the engine dept it almost doesn't pay to rebuild due to all of the new emissions crap costing so much to replace, refurbish, etc, etc. Not to mention the ECM's are usually obsolete within a few years too, again mainly due to changes in the engines caused by having to comply with every increasing emission restrictions.

You hit the nail squarely on the head. Reading down the posts until this point it seems you are the only one that actually gets what I was saying. Just goes to prove the thought process that an old/used vehicle can't be reliable. Just think, at one time people had no problem traveling across the state, country, etc in a Model T Ford, a 40 Ford Coupe, a 55 Chevy, a 69 Camaro, A VW Bug, etc, etc......to them every one of those vehicles was NEW, and reliable transportation. And any of those vehicles and many, many others can be just as reliable with some work to get them back into shape and proper maintenance. I always think it's funny to read about someone doing a complete restoration on their classic car and having it break down several times on the way to the first out of state show. I restored a 55 Chevy in high school and drove it 400-600 miles nearly every other weekend, not to mention around town every night of the week I wasn't on duty, for nearly 6 years (until it got wrecked) and never had any problems out of it.

Personally I think alot of the NEW mentality is simply to impress the Jones', or maybe it's just disillusionment about what true reliability is coupled with a desire to not have to do maintenance on the newer stuff because of sealed bearings, etc, etc instead of the grease fittings that required a little time to keep maintained if you wanted your machine to really last.....

The last car I bought was a GM lease car. One year old with full new car warranty. I like that set up. 2006 Buick Lucerne with 11,000 miles for about $11,000 off new price,

I suppose when you come down to it, I`m not opposed to the concept of "new" as much as I am opposed to the folks that trade in on a new vehicle every 2-3 years, even though they have had no problems with them. The idea of getting something new and taking care of it makes sense to me, then it should last for many years, not just 3. I will never do it, just because there is no new pickups that my mechanical mind can tolerate, I don`t like the way they are built, but if others want to get a long life out of a new vehicle, that is fine, but trading in just to stimulate the economy makes no sense to me. I am more concerned with my personal economy.

This whole topic makes me think of an older guy I used to work with, he was a truck driver who owned his own rig, and everything he drove he bought brand new. He is still driving a `75 Peterbilt that has had every wear item on it replaced several times, but he does it before there is a breakdown, and I have never seen him miss a day of work from having an old truck, and the pickup he drives everyday, he special ordered from GMC in 1976, still a sharp looking truck, and it does not leak oil in peoples driveways, either.

Most of this is because of a broken down PT Cruiser 02 model. and the "wife" me.. wants a Camaro..But it is very difficult to work on a New Camaro. So I have opted for a fully restored 67, 68, or 69 Camaro. So that Mr. NCWayne can work on it. Perfect Compromise..But now the problem is ...Who finances them?

(quoted from post at 00:39:57 11/27/11)

(quoted from post at 00:17:59 11/27/11) Ok by buying new you are in fact stimulating the econemy for starters much more so than buying used. 2nd in my area a used 3/4 or 1 ton has been abused hard by a farmer, contractor or some hot rod kid so you are buying someone elses problems. I know of one 3/4 ton that I would buy used when the original owner trades it in the local area. One out of thousands!

If you own a business your equipment has to start and run when needed. 2 ways to do that is newer stuff in good condition or having doubles of everything. Both ways are going to cost about the same and as a consumer if your equipment looks bad I'm not about to call you. The guy who cares enough to have better trucks and equipment gets my vote every time. He may be more expensive but if he's cutting corners in his business whats he cutting on the job site?

Now me I buy things used cause thats what my fixed income allows. Can I buy something new? Sure, but with getting the farm back on the map it would cut into my ability to buy things I need without going to the bank. Then I would be paying the banker twice. Is a new truck in my future???? Heck YES!!!! But not right now.

Rick

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Stimulating the economy? Yeah, that is why our economy is in the gutter, because nobody buys new anymore? Seems to me that when things used to last longer, our economy was better off.

As far as used trucks being trashed, I think you need to look harder. You might have to take a trip to the nearest city, but probably 90% of the 3/4 and 1 ton diesels bought new nowadays are pavement princesses that have never had a trailer hooked on them. And if you buy an older used truck, you can fix the problems and still be money ahead.

Some of the best, most professional businesses I have ever seen or worked for ran older equipment. If you own older equipment, pay a decent mechanic, and well maintained older trucks and equipment usually look a lot classier than new stuff. Most newer trucks have as high of failure rate as a PROPERLY MAINTAINED older truck. You cannot flog on an old truck and expect it to live with no maintenance, no warranty, remember? And you think keeping older equipment running is cutting corners in a business? It should be a mark of someone who does what is needed to get the most bang for his buck.

So you drive a used vehicle because it is cheaper? So do I, and I still get where I need to go, so I see no need to pay more to get the exact same thing. And the same thing applies to ag equipment, going to the banker to get AC and a radio sure does not seem like the best way to keep a farm "on the map".

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Yea it stimulates the econemy. Ore miners have work, factory workers, steel mills, rail employees and truckers.....lot of theose guys are out of work if no one is buying new. And when they are working they earn money that they too spend.......buying used only gives the seller money.

I'm buying used equipment too......

As far as going to the nearest city......I'd have to spend money just for meals and motel......they ain't that close. An in the city most of the non business 3/4 and 1 tons are driven by young hot rodders......


Round these parts most guys with older trucks in a business are showing the care and concern they have on the job.....only worried about getting paid.



Rick

You are right about people wanting to impress someone with what they drive. One of my SIL's wants a 1 ton dually diesel so bad it's killing him.....and really needs nothing more than a Ford Ranger. But he's young and it's all for show. I don't know how many times he's called and wanted me to convince my daughter that a truck he found is A. worth the money and B. that they really need it.......what gets me he drives OTR lower 48 and Canada.

Rick

I have nothing against used equipment or vehicles.
Matter of fact i've never bought anything new in my 40 yrs of farming.
There is no way i could've made a living with it if it wasn't for buying used.
Ofcourse it helped a great deal that i can and do maintain and repair it all myself.
On top of that i can't see spending 100 grand + on a new tractor that is used maybe 300 hrs a year is a wise decision,a 10 grand one will do the same as the new one and leaves 90 grand to spend on a lot of other nessecary items(all used ofcourse :wink: )
I have a full line of equipment + spares and i don't think i spend much over 100 grand total for it.
I have more tractors than i need so there's always a spare if one breaks down.
Same goes for vehicles,Wife drives a 95 GMC $2000 truck(diesel) bought 3 yrs ago,she put 100 k on it with no issues.
I drive a 98 CMC 3/4 t diesel bought for 5 grand 4 yrs ago,its gonna last me another 10 if i don't wreck it.
BTW, i farm 1800 acre with that old stuff.

The hard part is finding a GOOD used anything...

Usually you're buying the last guy's problems, with a fresh coat of wax. The only reason work trucks get traded in is because they have been flogged and neglected to the point where they don't go anymore.

If you need the truck to turn, burn and earn on Day One, you can't take the chance with a used truck.

(quoted from post at 14:49:07 11/29/11)[b:35c3df4f0a] The hard part is finding a GOOD used anything...[/b:35c3df4f0a]Usually you're buying the last guy's problems, with a fresh coat of wax. The only reason work trucks get traded in is because they have been flogged and neglected to the point where they don't go anymore.

If you need the truck to turn, burn and earn on Day One, you can't take the chance with a used truck.

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The hard part is to get[b:35c3df4f0a] educated[/b:35c3df4f0a] on what comprizes a good used anything.

I Never buy something that has been "pressure washed,or repainted or gone trough", (get them in their work clothes so one can see were potential problem are and how they been used/abused), and never from a dealer.
I usually buy something"in need of repair" and pay accordingly... "a couple grand at best", that way i can get my money out of it if it don't turn out(hasn't happened yet).

For vehicles i stick with the ones i know inside out, which happen to be the GM 6.5 diesel trucks,i pick them up cheap cause nobody knows how to fix them :wink: