gtractorfan
Well-known Member
At least they're on farm ground. Here are pictures taken by workers on a windmill farm under construction in Northwest Ohio.
- Thread starter gtractorfan
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gtractorfan
Well-known Member
Another one...
cole in mo.
Well-known Member
Just out side of Judith Gap montana I think there are over 100 in this one area. Amazing how big they are when you get up close.
gtractorfan
Well-known Member
A few more...
Stan - Florida
Well-known Member
And just as amazing when you pass or meet just the pieces on a truck on the road.
Stan
Stan
I think those windmills are just talk, expensive and a scam. I have been allover and where you have hydro, nuculear, coal or any other fossil fuel plant producing electricity, you see big electrical power lines carrying the electricity they produce. I have saw many windmill farms with hundreds of windmills and NO power lines leaving. Why? I don't believe they produce enough power for the big transmission lines.
The windmills look spectacular, but do they pay for themselves. In New York there have been articles in the newspapers, that without the federal energy credit they would be money losers.
Why do you think that Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns(defunct), Lehmann Bros.(defunct) play such a big part in financing them.
Hopefully someday technology will make them efficient enough to pay for themselves without federal(taxpayer) subsidy.
Why do you think that Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns(defunct), Lehmann Bros.(defunct) play such a big part in financing them.
Hopefully someday technology will make them efficient enough to pay for themselves without federal(taxpayer) subsidy.
gtractorfan
Well-known Member
Yes and they only work when the wind blows. I have a nephew that works in a nuclear power plant. I'd hate to tell you how many windmills he says it takes to make as much power as the plant where he works. It's also a shame, according to our electric co-op monthly magazine, because of govn't mandates there'll be 5 coal fired plants in Ohio closing-- those are plants already built and paid for.
drumlin WI
New User
A bunch of windmills are going up about 15 miles from here on the SE side of Lake Winnebago. I can see them from a hill nearby. Several pieces of windmills go by on the main highway per day. Usually half are spinning, the other half are not. I would personally hate to live near windmills, with all that noise, stray-voltage, and strobing.
Dieselrider
Member
Two mega watt generators on each one.
cole in mo.
Well-known Member
wires run from one to the other, and are under ground, my nephew lives if great falls mt, and says a lot of the power they get is from the windmills.
Paul from MI
Well-known Member
Totally right. It makes no sense to stop using our most abundant fuel or to susbsidize a generating process that is not financially viable. Actually the same thing applies to ethanol, but at this moment we don't have enough oil production in the US to satisfy our own demand so I guess it does make some sense. But then whoever said the government was capable of logical decisions?
Ivan in Mich
Member
I was in Germany in Sept and any where you look over all you see is windmills. It seemed as if every small town had a dozen or so.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Let me first say ,Im not against wind power or windmills like in the previous post.BUT I dont want them close to me. Here in NE Indiana,they are trying to erect about 75,for now. When they are done ,its been said there will be over 200.Now guys thats not on a wind farm but across our county. Thats about 18 miles!GOOGLE windmill generators and hazzrds and just read of all the bad things that are associated with them! Alot of our people are fighting them ,but the local govt will have the last say. The power wont even stay locally.Its going in the grid that will{ive been told} will go to New York City. Will just have to live with it,I guess!! Just my 2 cents worth!
Well when was the last time a nuclear power plant was built in the USA? How many billions would it take to build one? Where is the radioactive waste being stored for the next million years? Still have to have transmission lines to move the power. What does it cost to build a coal fired plant? How clean burning are they? What is the cost of moving those unit trains full of coal across the country? Ever see what the coal fields look like in Wy? What does that cost to extract? Maybe windmills aren't so much of a fad after all but a way to get energy without having to deal with all of the above questions.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I have wondered about that too. I often make the car trip between Spokane and Seattle on I-90. About mid trip, there are many windmills on the ridge West of Vantage and the Columbia river. Last week I came back from Seattle and was surprised to see most of the windmills idle, even though it was fairly windy. There were some windmills operating about as fast as I have usually seen them running, so I don't believe the others were idle due to lack of wind speed. They were just sitting there with the blades turned so they remained stationary or almost so.
I don't know who owns the "wind farm", but it would seem to me that they were wasting a good opportunity to make some power and get some return on their investment. I don't know how much each windmill costs to get operational, but a few years ago, my neighbor was involved in a group that was considering putting some windmills in the Palouse area. He told me at that time, the windmills were almost a Million dollars each.
The "wind farm" near Vantage should be in a good spot, high on a desert ridge that has little or no value for anything else--it appears to have little soil and mostly grows sagebrush. There are no trees or mountains to block the wind. When I have driven through there, most of the time there was quite a bit of wind.
I have not counted the windmills, but there must be 50 or more. Let's see, if there are 50 windmills and they cost a million dollars each, someone or some company must have invested a BUNCH of money in the project. I wonder how much of it was payed for by the taxpayers (federal and state).
Kind of surprising to see so many windmills just sitting there, doing nothing when the wind was blowing strongly. Maybe our power grid had too much power just then, since the Northwest mostly gets its electricity from hydroelectric dams. I would think they would want to run the windmills as much as possible. The wind doesn't blow strongly enough to make the windmills work efficiently all the time. Sounds like a "government decision".
I don't know who owns the "wind farm", but it would seem to me that they were wasting a good opportunity to make some power and get some return on their investment. I don't know how much each windmill costs to get operational, but a few years ago, my neighbor was involved in a group that was considering putting some windmills in the Palouse area. He told me at that time, the windmills were almost a Million dollars each.
The "wind farm" near Vantage should be in a good spot, high on a desert ridge that has little or no value for anything else--it appears to have little soil and mostly grows sagebrush. There are no trees or mountains to block the wind. When I have driven through there, most of the time there was quite a bit of wind.
I have not counted the windmills, but there must be 50 or more. Let's see, if there are 50 windmills and they cost a million dollars each, someone or some company must have invested a BUNCH of money in the project. I wonder how much of it was payed for by the taxpayers (federal and state).
Kind of surprising to see so many windmills just sitting there, doing nothing when the wind was blowing strongly. Maybe our power grid had too much power just then, since the Northwest mostly gets its electricity from hydroelectric dams. I would think they would want to run the windmills as much as possible. The wind doesn't blow strongly enough to make the windmills work efficiently all the time. Sounds like a "government decision".
I don't know what it cost to build a coal fired plant but it must be reasonable because they operate WITHOUT subsidies and with the the cost of gov. regulations and still make a profit. Moving coal across country. 50 miles from me there is a lignite plant that the gov says they can't burn lignite any more. They will be moving coal from WY. Why? who knows, they say polution. You should come look at the area around, pretty blue skys, nice green grass, lake full of fish and no outbrake of human sickness of anykind.
The radioactive waste? I don't THINK it takes a million years for it to be safe. There is such a small amount it, it could be stored many places.
I am NOT against windmills. I am against my tax dollars going to subsidize them and them still producing the most expensive power around. If windmills can operate without subsidies and make cheap power I say let's build more.
The government is more involved in nuclear energy than you
realize. Read the article or do all the research you want. It all says
the same thing. Something has to be done with the amounts of
waste building up. Might not take a million years but one article
was saying 100,000.
Untitled URL Link
realize. Read the article or do all the research you want. It all says
the same thing. Something has to be done with the amounts of
waste building up. Might not take a million years but one article
was saying 100,000.
Untitled URL Link
I live about halfway between two nuclear power plants, about 40 miles to each. If those windmills are 2 megawatts each it would take 1,215 of them to replace the larger of those two plants. I don't think we have to worry about storing radioactive waste for a million years. Man cannot possibly exist that much longer. Don't overlook the fact that coal fired plants put out radioactive waste, too. Not to mention mercury.
Ichabod
Ichabod
John (C-IL)
Well-known Member
They just put up 90 1.5 MW windmills north of me and there are 46 more that are proposed around me.
As far as subsidies, if the government hadn't been involved there would be no Hoover Dam or TVA.
The windmills are just a piece of the puzzle for our country's insatiable demand for electricity. Computer's, DirecTV, Dish, cellphones, electric cars, power tools, city lights, sports stadiums, the list goes on and on. The power has to come from somewhere and the nuclear, coal and gas fired plants aren't keeping up.
As far as subsidies, if the government hadn't been involved there would be no Hoover Dam or TVA.
The windmills are just a piece of the puzzle for our country's insatiable demand for electricity. Computer's, DirecTV, Dish, cellphones, electric cars, power tools, city lights, sports stadiums, the list goes on and on. The power has to come from somewhere and the nuclear, coal and gas fired plants aren't keeping up.
Here is why they are not turning- There are cables that run between ground and top- to carry the electricity. The windmill follows the changing wind direction until the unit has made 4 turns. The cables cannot be twisted more than 4 turns, so the puter shuts down the blades and slowly unwinds 4 turns, then lets the blades turn again. Watch for a while and you will see them reversing.
gtractorfan
Well-known Member
The cost per windmill we hear for these is $3.5 million each. And, I don't understand why they put them on good farm ground when they could just as well be in unproductive areas. It's not just the windmills themselves, but the access roads they cut diagonally through fields. (notice one of the aerial views of the field nearby) Another thing I heard was "why don't they put a row of them on abandoned railways?
The Columbia river also has generation, with hydro. The wind farms were shut down to allow the hydro plant to operate at full capacity during the high flow periods this year. Had there been a way to store the extra energy then they would have been online.
Until there is an economical way to store the extra energy wind produces during favorable wind conditions, the units will be shut off when demand is less than supply.
Wind has been used for years in Europe, We are way behind the curve in the US...Grid issues and storage are the main hurdles....as is cost.
I just came back from bringing a tower section to a wind farm in Williams, AZ. And yes, going down the road a tower is a thing to be in awe of...and treat with respect when you pass it. We travel down the road at 175 feet long and over 200,000 lbs. We do not stop or turn in a hurry and need a LOT of room. We do our best to get turns and other manuvers that block traffic lanes done as quickly as possible. All it takes is one brain dead me first idiot to mess up a LOT of peoples day in a hurry. The stories I could tell....
Until there is an economical way to store the extra energy wind produces during favorable wind conditions, the units will be shut off when demand is less than supply.
Wind has been used for years in Europe, We are way behind the curve in the US...Grid issues and storage are the main hurdles....as is cost.
I just came back from bringing a tower section to a wind farm in Williams, AZ. And yes, going down the road a tower is a thing to be in awe of...and treat with respect when you pass it. We travel down the road at 175 feet long and over 200,000 lbs. We do not stop or turn in a hurry and need a LOT of room. We do our best to get turns and other manuvers that block traffic lanes done as quickly as possible. All it takes is one brain dead me first idiot to mess up a LOT of peoples day in a hurry. The stories I could tell....
When you get done Googling windmills and have become educated on how they are going to kill you etc., point your browser here: http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html and take note of the huge, unreported, hazards of dihydrogen monoxide.
Wow. Assemble the prop on the ground and then hoist it? Around here they put on one blade at a time, holding it flat in the 3-o'clock position.
Maybe yours have smaller blades. Last I heard ours had a 60-foot radius on the 2.7MW generators (glorified mixer motors), but the power company guy in the family quoted 124 feet. If he's talking diameter we're on the same page. If he meant radius like I thought, then these things are getting even bigger...
We just had dad's funeral but he really liked wind generators. His were/are Air-X "fish" which have homemade towers around 30-45 feet high, about 60-inch diameter blade sweep, they basically have a Delco alternator with a Chrysler regulator (some with an add-on board for overspeed regulation) and can put out 30 amps apiece in 17-21mph winds. I think he has 5 or six standing, charging enough batteries to power all but the fridges and freezers for about 2 days. When all of my county was dark two years ago he was watching tv!
Maybe yours have smaller blades. Last I heard ours had a 60-foot radius on the 2.7MW generators (glorified mixer motors), but the power company guy in the family quoted 124 feet. If he's talking diameter we're on the same page. If he meant radius like I thought, then these things are getting even bigger...
We just had dad's funeral but he really liked wind generators. His were/are Air-X "fish" which have homemade towers around 30-45 feet high, about 60-inch diameter blade sweep, they basically have a Delco alternator with a Chrysler regulator (some with an add-on board for overspeed regulation) and can put out 30 amps apiece in 17-21mph winds. I think he has 5 or six standing, charging enough batteries to power all but the fridges and freezers for about 2 days. When all of my county was dark two years ago he was watching tv!
rodgernbama
Member
How is that propeller transported? Is it put together in pieces onsite?
Aaron SEIA
Well-known Member
Local town here just put one up. 463' to the top of the tower. The Siemens plant in Ft Madison makes blades for many of them. 12 tons and 153' long.
AaronSEIA
AaronSEIA
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Meters per blade. There is no way a 120ft dia turbine could develop 2.7Mw output.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Wind turbine develop dirty power full of current spikes, voltage spikes and harmonics.
The output varies from day by day, hour by hour and minute by minute.
The utility grid has to purchase and maintain backup power for when the turbines are not operating. Having to purchase twice the equipment for the same amount of power.
As the wind turbine output increases and decreases with wind gusts etc. The rest of the generators on the grid have to vary power to match. No easy task.
Around here turbines are limited to a max of 7% of the distribution line's rated power.
A wind turbine on somebody else's property away from sight and sound of yourself is one thing.
Living close enough to hear them and be in range of the shadow flicker is something else.
Solar is no treat either as clouds pass over causing wide swings in output power.
The output varies from day by day, hour by hour and minute by minute.
The utility grid has to purchase and maintain backup power for when the turbines are not operating. Having to purchase twice the equipment for the same amount of power.
As the wind turbine output increases and decreases with wind gusts etc. The rest of the generators on the grid have to vary power to match. No easy task.
Around here turbines are limited to a max of 7% of the distribution line's rated power.
A wind turbine on somebody else's property away from sight and sound of yourself is one thing.
Living close enough to hear them and be in range of the shadow flicker is something else.
Solar is no treat either as clouds pass over causing wide swings in output power.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I hear a lot of chirping about a few hundred cubic yards of inert nuclear waste buried under 1800ft of stable rock.
What about all the toxic lead, cadmium, mercury, dioxins, PCB's just laying around. That stuff will sicken and kill people quicker. And it stays toxic forever.
Radiation is easy to find in 2 seconds with a hand held frisker.
How can you tell what chemicals are laying around leaching into the water table that fast and accurately?
What about all the toxic lead, cadmium, mercury, dioxins, PCB's just laying around. That stuff will sicken and kill people quicker. And it stays toxic forever.
Radiation is easy to find in 2 seconds with a hand held frisker.
How can you tell what chemicals are laying around leaching into the water table that fast and accurately?
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
rad waste is not a problem.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
2 X 750 Mw nuclear at Bruce A in 2012 & 2013.
Other than lawyers getting rich with silly paperwork. The Darlington Nuclear site could have 2 X 1000Mw in four years.
By the time the paper pushers delay everything. They will have cost more than the actual plant.
b.t.w. the world production will have to be stepped up. Right now there is not enough stainless steel in inventory or proposed production to build two new Candu's.
Other than lawyers getting rich with silly paperwork. The Darlington Nuclear site could have 2 X 1000Mw in four years.
By the time the paper pushers delay everything. They will have cost more than the actual plant.
b.t.w. the world production will have to be stepped up. Right now there is not enough stainless steel in inventory or proposed production to build two new Candu's.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Wind turbines are very site specific for optimum wind without turbulence.
They also need to be located near the main transmission, not distribution lines.
There are rather few areas of North America within 10 miles 115,230 and 500Kv grid power. And also located in a high average wind speed location.
Looks simple but...........
They also need to be located near the main transmission, not distribution lines.
There are rather few areas of North America within 10 miles 115,230 and 500Kv grid power. And also located in a high average wind speed location.
Looks simple but...........
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
The liberals are working towards the world like the old "I'd like to teach the world to sing" Coca-Cola ad from the 1970's.
Everyone stands hand in hand on hill sides singing in peace and harmony wear white robes. Then they go home to a tofu buffet. No farms, factories , machines, towns, cities, roads etc need to exist.
You want a abundant nanny state to look after you?
Everyone stands hand in hand on hill sides singing in peace and harmony wear white robes. Then they go home to a tofu buffet. No farms, factories , machines, towns, cities, roads etc need to exist.
You want a abundant nanny state to look after you?
farmer boy
Well-known Member
Isn't dihydrogen monoxide water?
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
The talking heads on TV don't mention that.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I thoroughly enjoy that one every time.
Goes to show the sad state of the education system too. That adults who graduate from high school, let alone college or university rarely clue in.
Goes to show the sad state of the education system too. That adults who graduate from high school, let alone college or university rarely clue in.
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
Here they just use the normal grid. The output is low enough it doesn't need to go to a major hub.
oliverlover982
Member
just an fyi for you the blades on that large of a turbin are a minimal of 120 feet and thats on the short end a clipper 2.5 mw tower has 153 foot blades so thatd be a diameter of 306 feet they havent put 60 foot blades on towers for many years
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I know we have many dams on the Columbia River that produce hydroelectric power. But this time of year should be when river flow rates should be at their lowest, as we have just come through the dry months of July, August, September and October, and I saw the idle windmills last week. Maybe demand is way down, due to decreased industrial activity because of the lousy economy, and the fact that the weather has been mild. Here in the Northwest, lots of homes have electric heat, since that used to be one of the least expensive methods to install a heating system. But our electric rates have gone up too, although I think we still have relatively low rates compared to some areas of the country. I bet during the heating season, the demand is really high and probably all or most of the windmills would be producing.
I wish they would come up with some efficient way to store large amounts of electricity, be it in storage battery banks, giant capacitors or something else we don't know about yet. Then maybe wind power would have a better pay-back.
About 80 years ago, my grandfather had a windmill that produced electricity on the farm in Northeast Montana. When the wind blew, the windmill turned and they stored the power in special glass cell, rebuildable storage batteries. Then they could use the power to have electric lights in the house and shop, and to listen to the radio. Since the wind sometimes didn't blow enough, they also had a gas engine powered generator that they sometimes had to use. My Mother said their place was the first in the area to have electric lights, long before the REA power lines came. Another windmill pumped most of their water.
I think that windmills have their place in our energy production scheme, but since the wind does not always blow strongly enough to produce good power, they always will be a secondary or lower source. Here in the Northwest, hopefully we will always have enough hydropower for most of our electrical needs (if the goofy environmentalists don't decide that fish are more important than people!!!). But the utility companies also have standby generation systems fueled by diesel and biowaste burners to help when demand is at its highest.
I still would have felt better about the situation if those windmills had been turning rather than just sitting still. A LOT of investment by someone (probably the taxpayers) just sitting there depreciating and weathering.
I wish they would come up with some efficient way to store large amounts of electricity, be it in storage battery banks, giant capacitors or something else we don't know about yet. Then maybe wind power would have a better pay-back.
About 80 years ago, my grandfather had a windmill that produced electricity on the farm in Northeast Montana. When the wind blew, the windmill turned and they stored the power in special glass cell, rebuildable storage batteries. Then they could use the power to have electric lights in the house and shop, and to listen to the radio. Since the wind sometimes didn't blow enough, they also had a gas engine powered generator that they sometimes had to use. My Mother said their place was the first in the area to have electric lights, long before the REA power lines came. Another windmill pumped most of their water.
I think that windmills have their place in our energy production scheme, but since the wind does not always blow strongly enough to produce good power, they always will be a secondary or lower source. Here in the Northwest, hopefully we will always have enough hydropower for most of our electrical needs (if the goofy environmentalists don't decide that fish are more important than people!!!). But the utility companies also have standby generation systems fueled by diesel and biowaste burners to help when demand is at its highest.
I still would have felt better about the situation if those windmills had been turning rather than just sitting still. A LOT of investment by someone (probably the taxpayers) just sitting there depreciating and weathering.
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