O.T. vehicles that sit ethanol

I've got a few vehicles in my yard, amazing how the time passes, and as of late, having some time, but never enough money lol started working on one a '94 ranger with 73,000 miles. No start, have the box off, was going to do the frame on it, rusty and flaking a bit, but even the spring hangers are still good, so in an attempt to get it started, the battle begins, first the positive battery cable connector, cleaned, has to be torqued right down to get a good connection, never seen one that would not tolerate a little wiggle, might be weak, but still turn over, get that done and turn 'er over. No fuel, I sent a little fuel in the intake, fires up.... ok, fuel filter or pump..... pull the pump... something on the pump near the strainer turned to tar, and the fuel is real old, tank is mostly clean except for this tar like substance, must have been some kind of plastic, anyone ever see that before ? Ethanol ? Fuel in the suction line on the pump looked clean, not sure if those pumps can be repaired, looks like a collar and a strainer or a new complete assembly.

Appears I could mop it up, not a lot of fuel in there, have to look at the tank straps, see if I can get it off, but worst case, since there is no drain or connection on the bottom, have to get that off, clean and flush, don't see any other way unless I could mop it out, use some kind of suction, (non spark)keep flushing and using suction to get out the liquid til its clean. Any suggestions, like a hand pump or syphon that could do the job, hole for the fuel pump is big enough to clean that tank, be nice to leave it on

Another one to work on after this one, a '96 F150 XLT, 4x4, 133,000 miles, short box, 5 spd, doing the same darned thing, another melted fuel pump ??? Never thought of that, I now use star tron enzyme additive in things that sit, both have been idle too long my own fault, but they used to start LOL ! I got away with it too long, what happens when the hours pile up and the energy/motivation runs out !

Ethanol gets blamed for a lot of this.

But maybe the plastic parts would have melted in plain gas as well.

Years ago there were no plastic parts on engines or fuel systems. Gas could set in them for a long time and not melt the steel. Now that we are burning more ethanol we also see more plastic parts. So the conclusion is made that it must be the ethanol doing it. It May Not Be So.

Remember plastic is made out of oil. So maybe gas can dissolve the oil just as ethanol maybe can.

Ever put gas in a Styrofoam cup. You may never get it full. Ever put rum or whiskey in a Styrofoam cup.

Which one eats the cup?

Gary

It may not be, but, speaking from experience, it usually is.

Dean

I have a 94 Explorer that only saw about 200 miles last year. I drove it more last month that it has been driven in the last 2 years. Didn't seem to have any trouble starting on gas that was at least 1 year old.
I have cleaned old small engine fuel tanks by filling them with pour in the tank fuel injector cleaner and letting them set a couple days. Works pretty well. Use a good kind like Berryman's.

I have 1979 Ford F150 that set had for 3 years with a half of tank of E10 in it. About a year ago I poured a little fresh gas in the carb and drove it till the tank was about empty then refilled to about E10 again. Been setting since. I have been running it about every 2 or 3 years since 1995 and it has burned E10 all its life. It will start today if I wanted it to.


Hummm older truck with no plastic parts.

Gary

Take care to get your gas where it is reasonable to expect that it is fresh. Never, get ethanol unless you will burn it within two weeks in something built after 2000. With fuel near $4/gallon, the few cents more for non-ethanol is a great investment. This is very simple, doing otherwise is a lot like marrying an alcoholic.

Not ethanol related. Sometime gas will eat the tank lining material and turn it into goop. Sometimes we never know where stuff comes from. Have seen what looks to be 1/2 cured epoxy in a tank before, gas didn't dissolve it, carb cleaner did but what a mess.

Styrofoam every time, been a long time since I did that, there was a construction adhesive MD200 or MD400, one would melt foam insulation board, the other would not.

My '64 F600, will start after sitting, 0 degrees F or warm outside, though there is a section of fuel line near the pump that ethanol or just age might effect.

My Stihl MS390 gave up a fuel line, cracked at all the ribbing in it, hard to say, like you said the alcohol does not compromise the styrofoam cup.

I used to get non ethanol gasoline, supplier used to get it from somewhere,heard they don't have it now, I do treat the gas now.

My fault, truck has sat a long time, a couple of times, was last on the road in '05, but run and moved. Interesting what happened to that material on that pump strainer.

It's like roof cement but "tackier", the strainer must have been made of rubber, not plastic, it slips over the end of the pump, some of it looked like wet epoxy, and there was some very sticky tar like coating on the filler neck/tube. Truck needs one of those too!

Well, I got a new pump this morning, and a $4 hand siphon, some more gumout, I'll get that tank cleaned easily, probe around to see if anything sticks, was just where the strainer was, rest of tank, (plastic tank) looked clean !

Wait to that F150, been off road since '03, 5 spd went on it, have a rebuilt one now, was parked with a full tank of fuel, this ought to be interesting too, was undercoated, underneath looks better as if it was on the road, with all the salt etc. I plan on keeping that one and selling the ranger once I finish it up. I'm just happy to finally be working on these and doing something with em. Kept the rodents out for the most part too.

Never, ever, use ethanol in older vehicles or those that sit for long periods of time. Like over a winter. I've had several really bad experiences with the antique tractors after having ethanol in them over the winter. I now have only regular unleaded gas delivered. No more overwintering problems. I have told the fuel guy that if I find ANY ethanol in my fuel tanks, he'll be back to pump it out. And my business will go elsewhere! I'm taking no chances with 30+ gas tractors! And this is from a Central Illinois corn farmer.

Here in Minnesota we have been using ethanol fuel for about 30 years. I have not had a problem with ethanol in vehicles that have been sitting for years as long as the vehicle has a pressure sealed fuel system. I just started an 88 Pontiac Sunbird that had been sitting since 2004 with a near full fuel tank. I put in a fresh battery and turn the ignition switch on and off a couple of time to prime the fuel system and when I cranked it over it started within seconds and runs fine.

My Super C and I-2444 are just the opposite situations. I had not added any fuel to the 2444 since May and now that the temperature is in the 40s it will not start without a shot of starting fluid to get it to fire while cranking. Once it starts it runs fine and will restart as long as the engine is warm. Adding about 10% fresh fuel will again allow it to start with a cold engine.

The Super C has a Woods mower on it so it never is used over winter. If I don't shut the fuel off at the tank and run the carburetor out of fuel by Spring there will be corrosion in the carburetor that it will not run without a cleaning. Leaving the fuel in the tank over winter has not been a problem for me. I just fill with fresh fuel before turning the fuel back on in the Spring and everything works fine.

If ethanol is so bad why does the book that came with my 2006 Lucerne recommend 10% for the fuel to use.
I use E10 in everything I own and I have never had a problem, that includes a 55 chev 2ton, 94 chev 1/2 ton, IH "H" tractor. MF #36 SP swather, JD 95 combine and a bunch of old small engines.
I would suggest if you don't like it don't use it.

Now did I say ethanol is bad ? Don't put words in my mouth LOL ! My opinion is that like every new or recent technology, you have to work out the problems. I'm aware its been around a long time, produced from corn, farmer friendly, and all that, better than supporting O.P.E.C.

Personally, I never used to fuss with the gasoline for anything and never really noticed any trouble with something that sits over the winter, though I try and start things monthly at minimum.

As of late, I have noticed a lot of fuel lines failing on some things, which seems more than in the past, carburetors, well I've cleaned, taken apart, rebuilt or what have you, so many over the years, just old gas, can't pin it on ethanol.

In this instance with the fuel pump strainer, I've never seen rubber or plastic, (jury still out on what was in there) turn to a tacky, stringy substance, did get it mopped up where the strainer sets, dumped carb cleaner in that tank, flush, drain, had to get away from it, fumes too much, it will run tomorrow, if it don't rain !

That's pretty good, '04 ..... I just would have not suspected the fuel pump doing what it did, won't forget it now. Will check same on my F150, when I get to it, pull the box, check the tank etc.

Heck, I'll say it, ethanol sucks. It's a humongous government boondoggle that can't and won't stand on it's own without subsidies. I want to hear native Californians, Texans, or anyone else outside the corn belt to tout the praises of ethanol. I'm sure there are a few, but most haven't been brainwashed yet.

You can pay the subsidie through taxes or pay the extra at the pump for gas and ethanol.

Without ethanol gas would be 30 cents a gallon higher at the pump. 10% more gas would be needed causing the price to go up. Ethanol is the only thing that can somewhat keep gas prices in check.

This country would be in poor shape without ethanol. The only thing we can trade back to China is grain. With grain being higher because of ethanol our debt to China gets paid back quicker with high grain prices. They only buy the grain they need so if they buy a million bushels at $6 a bushel they pay us 3 times what they did when grain was $2.

Ethanol would survive without the subsidie, the farmer would just recieve about one dollar less per bushel, I also believe the subsidie should end but like I said we will just pay more at the pump.

Everyone forgets we have been using ethanol here in the midwest for 35 years and I don't hear many complaints from machanics or users here.

The farmer has also recieved less subsidies since this ethanol thing has spread nation wide.

So what your taxes spend in ethanol subsidies you save in payments to farm subsidies.

Is this a farm based forum? You know tractors on farms. Ethanol is one of the best things that has happen to the American farmer.

Gary

Unless your feeding livestock. I don't have a problem with ethanol other than it raised the price of feeding livestock more than double and I get at least 2mpg less with 10% blend. When your only getting 15mpg any and it drops to 12-13mpg that pretty much eats up the 30 cents per gallon. It also seems that since corn farmers are getting more for their corn, farm inputs have increased drastically. Many of these inputs are the same for livestock farmers and with the increased feed costs I'm no fan of ethanol. It's sad that when grain farmers prosper, livestock suffers and vise versa.

AGREED GARY ,, jUST PICKED UP ANOTHER 30 GALLONS OF E-85 ,,GONNA PARCEL IT OUT to the300 massey combine , 730 and DC Case, and i might top the tank off on my 391 FORD Grain Truck ..This time of the Year I start adding more Ga s to a e -50 blend for cold weather starts,,

Please consider this; ethanol is transported in tank cars of special design, I think, if it were not toxic, wouldn't it be moved by pipeline as other fuels are?

When the energy/motivation runs out/hours pile up.
I think at that stage there is a funeral.

(quoted from post at 01:47:01 11/11/11) Please consider this; ethanol is transported in tank cars of special design, I think, if it were not toxic, wouldn't it be moved by pipeline as other fuels are?

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To be shipped in pipelines there would have to be dedicated lines for just ethanol. Water is used to separate the different types of petroleum products in a pipeline. Alcohol mixes with water so it doesn't work to ship it in the pipelines currently in use.

I still stand by the fact that ethanol is a poor fuel and can'y survive without government help. Look at the biodiesel industry. It's basically dead because of no direct government support. That and the fact that the two largest consumers of diesel fuel in the world, Union Pacific Railroad and the U.S. Navy have found it to be a poor quality fuel and not cost effective to use proves that while bio-fuels may sound like a good idea, real world experience shows it's not. If you want to use bio-fuels go ahead, don't mandate that I have to if I don't want to.

(quoted from post at 22:47:01 11/10/11) Please consider this; ethanol is transported in tank cars of special design, I think, if it were not toxic, wouldn't it be moved by pipeline as other fuels are?

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Gasoline and diesel are NOT toxic???

Ethanol is transported in tank cars because there isn't nearly as much of it to transport. If ethanol production ever approaches the quantities of gasoline and diesel, you can bet that there will be pipelines.

I agree. No mandate should be in place. It wasn't mandated when we started using ethanol 35 years ago. For that reason we choose to use it on our own and were not forced in to it.

Bio diesel is not making it cause the cost to produce a gallon is way to high.

When beans were $5.00 a bushel and diesel was $3 a gallon it could work. When beans went to $10 and diesel was still $3 no way it will work.

When ever corn is under 2.5 times the price of Gas, Ethanol will work. Example, if corn is $10 a bushel gas has to be above $4 to work.

Right now gas is about $3.50 a gallon so the distillers can pay up to about $8.00 and still make it work. They get over 2.8 gallons of ethanol from a bushel of corn now. That leaves about 25 pounds of distillers grain left to sell after removing the ethanol.

Without the subside corn could only be about 2 times the price of a gallon. So with gas at $3.50 the distillers could not pay over $7.00 to make money.

Ethanol is here to stay. I said this a couple of years ago, if gas goes down so will corn. If there actually was a gas shortage and it went to $5 a gallon we could see $10 plus corn from the demand on ethanol.

I also said 2 years ago for the livestock guys to hang in there, good prices were coming to offset the increase in feed costs.

At that time cattle were $75 a hundred. Today they are close to a $130 and working up.

Hog guys are seeing good prices as well and making money even with $6 corn.

Gary

Gary I agree that ethanol can be a part of our energy independance but I still don't like it as a fuel, I get about 15% fewer miles per gallon. It may be more attractive if we continue the politics as usual with energy. Look what oil has done this week since our idiot president waffled on the Canadian oil pipeline. I hope your right about cattle prices but the increase from $75 to the current price is loosing ground with input costs. It's still possible to make money but it favors the larger operators.