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Anyone drive diesel cars?

J

JML755

Well-known Member
Been reading the thread on diesel p/u's. Lots of good info from real world experiences. Much better than watching the commercials on TV that don't tell you squat and just show video of shiny p/u's bouncing through construction sites hauling trailers of pipe. Yeah, right.

Anyway, new job has me going a little further (40 mile one-way trip, mixed expressway and surface) and I'm driving my '01 Pontiac Grand Prix that can get 29 mpg on the open road but I'm seeing 22 mpg on my daily commute.

I'm thinking of getting a newer car, considering a VW diesel. Anyone driving one or had one that could give some insight beyond what the marketing people say?
 
Friend has an about 2008 VW Jetta and gets a consistant 50 MPGs. Don't know about newer.
 
Ran a diesel for years in europe before moving to this side of the pond. Fuel millage is great, and the modern ones drive just like a gas engine. Their biggest downside imo is in cold weather they take a while to warm up and get heat for the screen defrost (check to see in an electricly heat front screen is available).

Brother still lives in the UK and drive an Audi A6 with a 2.5 V6 trubo diesel, gets 45 -48 mpg.

Maintenance is important, iifr everything is belt driven even the fuel injection pump is driven by the cam belt, so change in on time...
 
My son lives west of Colorado Springs and commutes to the Springs daily for work in his VW Golf Turbo Diesel.Claims of 52 MPG are not uncommon. IMO it is a nice little car.
 
Got my first diesel car in 1965 haven't owned a gas 1 since '60+'63 MB '79 Olds, 84 Rabbit ,'84 Toyota Corola 4 Suburbans 1 Blazer 7 trucks including present 2001 1T Dodge 3 of the trucks I had to convert to diesels '67 Chev with a GM Toro-Flow.78 Ford with a 6 cyl. Deutz & a 1ton Chev with GM 6.2.
Dayly driver ,83 MB 300TD
 
Remember to check into the cost difference of diesel fuel over regular and weigh that against the mpg difference. I did this in the spring when looking to purchase a little econobox car. Ended up with a gasser for a few reasons.

Around here diesel is at least 50-60 cents more per gallon and isn't available at every station. Diesel cars were more expensive than what I ended up buying. Diesel also isn't as easy to drive when it is -30*F. And going with a 50mpg VW would have only saved me about 50 cents a day on a 100 mile round trip commute over my 40mpg cobalt.
 
EPA made VW change there diesel engine configuration in about 2005 where then the VW diesel quickly lost 20mpg from the previously years model or about 45mpg VS 65mpg in 2004.

In Jan 2011 I bought a new Ford Fiesta gasser that I've got one tank at 49mpg, and several in the 38+mpg range and nothing less than 36.5mpg. Keep this in mind tho as I'm im AZ where I'm still using AC today in the after-noon commutes. During the summer where AC demand is 100% I did pre-cool my car on every commute or just like you would have heating for a cold culminate area, or something I've never done in the past years. My body required more cooling this year and I was willing to pay for it and is one of my low fuel mileage problems.

You really need to do your homework to see if a diesel can beat out a gasser for fuel mileage on todays engines.

T_Bone
 
(quoted from post at 06:57:56 11/03/11) EPA made VW change there diesel engine configuration in about 2005 where then the VW diesel quickly lost 20mpg from the previously years model or about 45mpg VS 65mpg in 2004.

In Jan 2011 I bought a new Ford Fiesta gasser that I've got one tank at 49mpg, and several in the 38+mpg range and nothing less than 36.5mpg. Keep this in mind tho as I'm im AZ where I'm still using AC today in the after-noon commutes. During the summer where AC demand is 100% I did pre-cool my car on every commute or just like you would have heating for a cold culminate area, or something I've never done in the past years. My body required more cooling this year and I was willing to pay for it and is one of my low fuel mileage problems.

You really need to do your homework to see if a diesel can beat out a gasser for fuel mileage on todays engines.

T_Bone
Click to expand...

You should check on that. VW sued the EPA over that mileage claim. Seems the EPA folks would really like to see diesel go away.

But back to the subject at hand......2 of my son's co-workers come here to the farm so they can play air soft combat who are both driving VW diesels. The one with the small one swears he's getting 55 and the one with the Passat claims 50. Now considering that they live in Fargo ND and both of them commute less than 10 miles to work I just don't see the savings.

I read an interesting interview with an automotive expert about diesels. Guy was claiming that an Explorer/S10 sized SUV would get about 45 MPG in diesel but the EPA was trying to convince the "big 3" not to make as many diesels.

Rick
 
Had a Pontiac Bonneville diesel back in the day. Only problem was that it was the old 5.7 GM. Had more trouble with the useless little 200 metric transmission than I had with the engine.
Got great mileage,exaust system lasted the life of the car. Been driving a diesel pickup for better'n 20 years,wouldn't have any problem at all having another diesel car.
 
(quoted from post at 07:11:24 11/03/11)
(quoted from post at 06:57:56 11/03/11) EPA made VW change there diesel engine configuration in about 2005 where then the VW diesel quickly lost 20mpg from the previously years model or about 45mpg VS 65mpg in 2004.

In Jan 2011 I bought a new Ford Fiesta gasser that I've got one tank at 49mpg, and several in the 38+mpg range and nothing less than 36.5mpg. Keep this in mind tho as I'm im AZ where I'm still using AC today in the after-noon commutes. During the summer where AC demand is 100% I did pre-cool my car on every commute or just like you would have heating for a cold culminate area, or something I've never done in the past years. My body required more cooling this year and I was willing to pay for it and is one of my low fuel mileage problems.

You really need to do your homework to see if a diesel can beat out a gasser for fuel mileage on todays engines.

T_Bone
Click to expand...

You should check on that. VW sued the EPA over that mileage claim. Seems the EPA folks would really like to see diesel go away.

But back to the subject at hand......2 of my son's co-workers come here to the farm so they can play air soft combat who are both driving VW diesels. The one with the small one swears he's getting 55 and the one with the Passat claims 50. Now considering that they live in Fargo ND and both of them commute less than 10 miles to work I just don't see the savings.

I read an interesting interview with an automotive expert about diesels. Guy was claiming that an Explorer/S10 sized SUV would get about 45 MPG in diesel but the EPA was trying to convince the "big 3" not to make as many diesels.

Rick
Click to expand...

Hi Rick,

I was just going off what they said on the VW forum as I was looking to buy a new VW diesel at the time. I figured if the owners couldn't get close too 55mpg on a new engine, I sure didn't want one that got 45mpg. I never read any thing between VW and the EPA.

T_Bone
 
I have a turbo diesel jetta. I love it. It is quiet, has power, handles great, not bad in the snow (for a car). MPG is always in the mid 40s highest for a tank was 55.
 
Pretty tough to get an overall savings by trading like that. I went from driving a F-150 to driving a Scion Xb, but even though my fuel consumption was halved, I didn't save enough to pay for the car. Not that I expected to, of course. The Scion is more fun to drive, more comfortable, and much much easier to maneuver and park.
 
I've had 3-Rabbit Diesel pickups, (1985's) do they count as cars??? 120-mi commute, fill'em-up once a week. 60-mi or 1-hr and my legs start complaining about lack of leg room. Never have that problem with my Dodge Cummins Diesel.......leggy Dell
 
I know this one is not newer but I sold a 85 model 300SD Merc. a couple of mounts ago. I had to have a little truck to do my running in. It got 24 to 27.5mpg every tank. I'll have another one at some point in time. Some parts are not as bad priced as I thought they would be. I know one or two people with a TDI Jetta and they seem to like them but they are just too small for me.
 
My grandpa used to drive an `80s ford escort with the peugot diesel in it, ugly, noisy, gutless little car that got incredible mileage (60+) with an old fart driving it easy. Wish I could find one.
 
My brother has driven a Jetta TDI station wagon for a number of years. He bought it just before the retail price of diesel jumped to more than premium gasoline, which was a real disappointment to him as diesel had been less than regular almost forever. He says he really likes the power of the TDI and that it is a great road car, capable of getting great mileage at very high speed. But for the turbo diesel to have any power, the turbo needs to be "spooled up", providing boost. My brother has had a couple of instances where he thought the car was really slow accelerating from a stop, like when he was stopped up next to a speed bump. He has a 5 speed manual transmission and has said he did not think the car would perform nearly as well as it does with an automatic.

All in all, the Jetta has been a very good car. I think they have somewhat over 100k miles on it and have needed to do very little to it mechanically. But maintenance is lots more expensive for the diesel than for the same car with a gas engine. Even with mileage approaching 50 all the time, my brother has wondered if his overall cost per mile is any better than it would have been with a gas engine. The expensive diesel option, the expensive fuel and the very expensive maintenance offset the great mileage. They do not drive the Jetta in the winter, as where they live they need 4WD almost all winter. Diesels can be hard to start in cold weather and if you do not have enough additive in the fuel when it is really cold, the fuel can jell and make the vehicle nearly impossible to get to run unless you put it in a heated building or the weather gets warmer. Oh, and then there is the stink from the diesel exhaust.

While my brother has really liked his Jetta TDI, I expect that his next car will be powered by a gas engine, and it might be a hybrid.

When he decides that it is time, I think he will see what is available, and then do the best cost analysis he can to try to get the best cost per mile and still do the job he wants the car to do.

There are lots of small cars that can get impressive mileage and performance. You might want to study the ratings in Consumer's Reports for reliability and how well customers have liked that model. Good luck HTH!
 
have 06 jetta which averages in the low 40's. hard to make it pay when diesel is 48 cents higher to buy. if buying new it would be a gas burner. the little jetta is about the most comfortable car we ever had on long trips though.
 
have diesel trucks, always looking/thinking about diesel car, even when fuel price was over $4 gal, sure price is up to 50 cents more, but you get 1 1/2 times more mileage than some Gasser's...mileage vs prices....which one out weights the other...
 
I have an '01 VW Golf TDi.

It will get 50MPG on the HW all day long, really a hair better then that if you don't get to crazy with the speed you travel at. I've got 210,000 miles on mine (I bought it new), so I've got some experience to say the least.

All that being said I don't think I would get another one. When I bought my car the TDi option wasn't all that expensive, diesel fuel was less and I was doing a TON of highway driving.

The new TDi performs better then my little 90HP wonder but they also have lost some economy in the process. If I'm going to drop down to 40ish MPG but still have to pay more for diesel (at least here in Maine), more to maintain (timing belts, oil, filters etc) and it's quirks (EGR clogging the intake manifold, although I'm sure they've gotten better at this) then it's simply not worth it to me.

It's always started though, even on some very, very cold days. It wasn't pretty and to sounded awful but it's been very trust worthy.

I just had a timing belt job done ($1200 bucks at the dealer BTW, needs to be done every 85k) and I went through the whole suspension so it should be good for a while yet. I just need to track down why my spedo has a mind of it's own...typical VW electrical nonsense!
 
The Escort's used a Mazda 2.0L naturally aspirated 4 cylinder rated at 52 hp. That's a far cry from today's VW's with roughly 100 hp from a 1.9L turbo engine.

Rod
 
Given how few they are and the premium price people place on them I wouldn't really want a Volkswagon - especially given the problems the seem to have with their eletronics and electrical system.

The Ford Festivia gets 40 MPG highway and starts when its cold.
 
We had several Olds's with the 5.7 diesel, two 88's and a 98. All had 350 transmissions, so no problems there.

Only engine problems we ever had was my wife once inadvertently put gasoline in one once and blew the head gaskets.

Drove one to California once, via Denver. People warned me ahead of time how horrible diesels would peform in the mountains. Once I got the hang of it, I passed a lot of gas burners on mountain grades, fair and square. The trick was to hold it in 2nd gear with the shifter and keep the rpms up.

Once they started using roller cams, about 1982, that 5.7 actually wasn't a bad little diesel, but by then gas burning technology obsoleted it.
 
We've got an 04 Jetta TDI. It's a nice car in lots of ways. Handles well, comfortable, etc. Mileage is mid 50's if you drive within the limits of the law. I don't though... and don't track mileage very closely. Last time I checked it... it still got around 30 while averaging about 90 mph.
At this point the car itself is starting to develop various stupid problems with only about 90K km on it... wheel bearings, turbo problems and several electrical problems.
As far as economics go... I think if you were the sort of person who was sold on a particular model of VW car and you weighed the option cost for the TDI and did a LOT of highway driving... it would probably pay you. That said, I think if you just want cheap, bottom dollar transportation... a Focus or Cobalt is probably going to cost you quite a bit less per mile to operate. It won't be as nice of a car as the Jetta.... but that's the tradeoff you make.
I haven't looked at the 'new' TDI's either but if they're anything like their truck counterparts in the emission garb department... I don't think I'd want one at any price.

Rod
 
I've got a kia sportage with 2.0 4cyl gas that gets maybe 17mpg with my mixed driving, pulls a double horse trailer like a lead sled and gets about 10mpg while doing it. Wife has a Kia sorento with a 6cyl 2.5 diesel that gets about 25mpg mixed driving and 30 autobahn. Pulled a loaded 2 horse trailer and hardly knew it was back there and still got 25mpg.......
When mine wears out, I'll be getting a diesel also........

Get you one and enjoy...

Dave
 
Ya,the one they called the Goodwrench diesel seemed to hold up OK. We had a Cutlas with that one in it after the wife totaled the Bonneville. I know full well that one needed a fuel pump one time. Tried to get the local "go to" mechanic to change it. He said it was OK,got frustrated that he didn't know diesels and totally screwed it up fooling with the glow plugs til I ended up putting a gas motor in it.
 
Yes, I have a 2-door 2011 VW Golf TDI 6-speed manual, white
with tinted windows. I bought it to drive to the farm and back
everyday. Leave my gasser F250 at the farm now.

I am very happy with the car, I happen to enjoy shifting so that
doesn't bother me. It is rated at 140 HP and something in the
mid 200;s torque. I can't say that it is very fast from a dead
standstill but once you get going it is very easy to stay in the
power range.

I drive mostly country roads with hills to and from the farm and I
get around 42 or better with the AC on and I drive kindof
sportily. I have taken it on one highway only road trip and got
48mpg, again with AC.

It comes standard with nice big wide tires and an upgraded
suspension from a base Golf and it has the nicest stereo of any
car that i have owned. Heated seats, trip computer and a few
things that are options on other golfs. Handles really, really well.

At 15,000 miles it hasn't hiccuped yet and I'm still happy with it.
My truck will now last forever as a farm vehicle and I've gone
from 11 mpg to 42mpg on my daily commute.

good luck
 
Kia doesn't list a diesel for sale in the US for 2012.

They do claim that they "will" becoming out with a diesel electric car.
 
I have an '03 Jetta TDI 5 speed manual. just turned 150,000
miles. I got it right before diesel prices became higher than gas.
I get around 47 mpg in mixed driving and somewhere around 54
mpg in highway only driving. I'm not sure what the "higher
maintenance costs" are someone else mentioned. Most gas
burners require timing belt changes also. It has always started ,
even in subzero temps (I live in Ohio). It is a little noisy on really
cold start days, but the clatter goes away in a few minutes. There
is virtually no diesel smell. If you were behind me on the road
you wouldn't know it was a diesel. It is a commuter car for me,
very comfortable, very easy to drive
 
(quoted from post at 16:45:54 11/03/11) I have an '03 Jetta TDI 5 speed manual. just turned 150,000
miles. I got it right before diesel prices became higher than gas.
I get around 47 mpg in mixed driving and somewhere around 54
mpg in highway only driving. I'm not sure what the "higher
maintenance costs" are someone else mentioned. Most gas
burners require timing belt changes also. It has always started ,
even in subzero temps (I live in Ohio). It is a little noisy on really
cold start days, but the clatter goes away in a few minutes. There
is virtually no diesel smell. If you were behind me on the road
you wouldn't know it was a diesel. It is a commuter car for me,
very comfortable, very easy to drive
Click to expand...

Try the 2cycle oil in the fuel..... 1/2 cup to 20 gallons... You'll probably notice the clatter much less right away....
 
As a mechanic that started out inthe mid 1980's I've only seen the Toro-Flow mentioned in the service manuals. My diesel injection instructor at college only told me that "it was awful and we didn't need to ever know about it". so can I ask you what exactly it was, where it was used, and what its downfall was?
 
(quoted from post at 16:45:54 11/03/11)Most gas
burners require timing belt changes also.
Click to expand...

My cobalt has a timing [b:013e52a80a]chain[/b:013e52a80a] that doesn't require replacement every 85k miles.....
 
Early morning weekend trip... I was in a hurry :) Haven't done that since either. The law has gotten desperately serious about that sort of thing lately... Something like a 2400 dollar fine, one week suspension and vehicle impounded...
Too bad. Ya can make a lot of time on open 4 lane when there's no traffic. Jetta pretty well tops out around 125 mph tho.

Rod
 
The 65 buck oil change is the biggest part of the expensive maintenance. Actually I think it's somewhere over 100 bucks when you add in the fuel and air filters here... and it doesn't matter if you go to a dealer or NAPA for the parts/oil. Then add labor if you pay the someone to change oil...

Rod
 
Looking around the parking lot at work and
listening in the coffee shop there. The VW diesel is
the hands down winner. For those who commute a 1/2
hr or more to work.
For just a 2WD. Some guys drive through some
brutal roads. They do however have those super
sticky Michelin Ice-X or similar tires on all four
corners.
 
(quoted from post at 21:28:43 11/03/11) Looking around the parking lot at work and
listening in the coffee shop there. The VW diesel is
the hands down winner. For those who commute a 1/2
hr or more to work.
For just a 2WD. Some guys drive through some
brutal roads. They do however have those super
sticky Michelin Ice-X or similar tires on all four
corners.
Click to expand...

I could go places with my passat wagon and golfs that I had with just frt wheel drive that I couldn't go with the F250 unless it was locked in.......
 
In the 1960s, I knew a trucker who bought a new GMC with the Toro-Flow diesel. Crankshaft bearings kept failing. He claimed the journals were too small. After 2 replacement short blocks, he replaced with the then popular V6 gasser. I think I still have Toro-Flow literature from that time if you would like to have a copy. Email is open.
 
Those cars are built like tanks. With weight to match... Shows what a little ballast will do.

Rod
 
Have enjoyed the many comments on this thread. My only diesel hi-way experience was with the GM 4.3 V6, used in the eighties. Owned the three Cieras, after they had 100 K miles. They treated me well. Only gripe would be that the crankshaft damper drive pulley rubber, would fail with age and high mileage. I thought that this engine with the automatic-overdrive were a great combination. I kept the engines and trans-axels when cars were junked, thinking they could power/convert a Ranger or C10 to FWD.
 
The Toro-Flow was GMs first attempt at a light duty non Detroit diesel for the 5500 series trucks around 1965-72. It was a 478cu.in v-6 4 stroke with about a 5"bore and short 3.5"? stroke They were also used in some Uni-Harvesters The out side dimensions were similar to V-6 gas 478,351,&305E Most of the problems were in the lower end.One freight company in Madison had some that they were supposed to use to deliver around the city but when ever they had a load they couldn't scale with a B61 Mack they would hook up a lighter GMC and pound it to Milwaukee and back or untill the crank went out.Oscar Mayer had a bunch of them and repowered some other trucks with them.The Diesel Driving School at Sun Prairie got 18 of them for yard use when I was service manager there,those came from Pepsi in Chicago for $300. per truck in lots of 6 We rebuilt a lot of them If you had to regrind the crank you had to have it tuf-ride hardened again. A former GM engineer told me that the Toro-Flow was designed to have a alloy crank because of the space but they found that Tuff-ride used to make cranks wear better also strengthens it against vibration and they could use a regular crank. Without it they break I know from experiance .
 
(quoted from post at 16:45:54 11/03/11) I have an '03 Jetta TDI 5 speed manual. just turned 150,000
miles. I got it right before diesel prices became higher than gas.
I get around 47 mpg in mixed driving and somewhere around 54
mpg in highway only driving. I'm not sure what the "higher
maintenance costs" are someone else mentioned. Most gas
burners require timing belt changes also. It has always started ,
even in subzero temps (I live in Ohio). It is a little noisy on really
cold start days, but the clatter goes away in a few minutes. There
is virtually no diesel smell. If you were behind me on the road
you wouldn't know it was a diesel. It is a commuter car for me,
very comfortable, very easy to drive
Click to expand...

Timing belts:

The VE TDI originally needed the belt changed quite a bit more often (65K on the TDI vs. 100k on the 2.0). It's also a more involved process on the TDI, which of course make it more expensive. The new belts are good for 85k so that's better but it's still a PITA to change.

The TDI has very specific oil requirements, and that oil isn't cheap, trust me I've changed cases of it by now. It does go 10k between drains though so that's good.

You have a fuel filter that need more attention then their gas counter parts, so add that to the list as well.

Some of the VE quirks (intake clogging for example) also can add up to some either pricy bills or hours of your time. I'm also on my third mass air flow sensor. Yeah, they're easy to replace but they used to cost an arm and a leg!

I like my car a lot, it has 200k on it, that says something. I'm sure VW has solved a lot of the problems the VE suffers from but even after all that and initial cost, coupled with expensive fuel and a bit more maintenance and lower MPGs makes a new one less attractive.

K
 
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