'64 JD 4020 Electrical Start Problem

Anonymous-0 · Nov 1, 2011

1964 JD 4020 was running just fine and had stopped and started it a few times thoughout the day and now when I turn the key on the little red generator (24 V)light comes on full intensity as it should however when I turn the key to start nothing happens, selenoid doesn"t engage or anything. Previously had a connection problem at transmission gear position switch however doesn"t seem to be a problem. I assume it is just a open/close switch but not sure if the permissive is open or closed. Tried disconnecting it with no luck, tried jumpering wire with no luck. Did same for the clutch engagement switch as well also no luck. Can anyone confirm that these are simple open/close switches and if not how can you check them? Also are there any other start permissive switches that anyone is aware of? Thank you in advance for any ideas. P.S. If your response is "get a manual", save your breath.

sixtyninegmc · Nov 1, 2011

If it is the same as my `65 4020, jumpering the 2 wire plug right at the starter bypasses the neutral safety switch, unplug that little black plug and hit the starter and see if you get power with a testlight or meter at the plug that is connected to the starter, should have power on the side of the plug that comes out of the harness, and you can check the neutral safety switch with a meter, with the tractor in neutral check for continuety between the two wires that go from that plug under the floorboards, should be a closed circuit, open when in gear.

There, clear as mud?

Josh

wisbaker · Nov 1, 2011

Simple checks with a VOM/VOAM (volt-ohm meter or volt-ohm-amp meter) or you could use a 12V test light. Measure at the solenoid, verify power at the hot terminal, no power there someting is messed up between the battery and the solenoid. Measure for power at the start or control terminal while trying to start the tractor, no power would mean a bad ingnition switch or interlock switch. If you have power at the start terminal measure on the starter terminal, no voltage means a bad solenoid, voltage means a bad starter or connection down the line. I seem to remember some of the new generation tractors had a switch that changed the batteries from parallel to series to give you 24V to start but allowed the batteries and accesories to be 12V, I'd check that gizmo 1st

Bob · Nov 1, 2011

"I seem to remember some of the new generation tractors had a switch that changed the batteries from parallel to series to give you 24V to start but allowed the batteries and accesories to be 12V"

Your "memory" is 100% FALSE.

Bob · Nov 1, 2011

The fact that you have TWO neutral safety switches tells us it is a powershift.

It is a SIMPLE system... when in neutral and clutch is depressed, switches are CLOSED.

JMOR · Nov 1, 2011

(quoted from post at 22:05:29 11/01/11) 1964 JD 4020 was running just fine and had stopped and started it a few times thoughout the day and now when I turn the key on the little red generator (24 V)light comes on full intensity as it should however when I turn the key to start nothing happens, selenoid doesn"t engage or anything. Previously had a connection problem at transmission gear position switch however doesn"t seem to be a problem. I assume it is just a open/close switch but not sure if the permissive is open or closed. Tried disconnecting it with no luck, tried jumpering wire with no luck. Did same for the clutch engagement switch as well also no luck. Can anyone confirm that these are simple open/close switches and if not how can you check them? Also are there any other start permissive switches that anyone is aware of? Thank you in advance for any ideas. P.S. If your response is "get a manual", save your breath.

uessing that the 4010 may not be much different?, then safety switches must be closed to start. Be sure in neutral and then jumper from battery terminal on solenoid to small terminal that is NOT wired to other battery cable terminal on starter barrel and it should begin cranking.

JBMac · Nov 1, 2011

Bob,

You come across as an a-hole. However, your advice is typically on-point and valuable. You should work on your people skills.

John

Bob · Nov 1, 2011

My post was straight and to the point. If you choose to tear it or myself to pieces, so be it.

But I'll bet I get the tractor started before at least 20% of the general public!

JMOR · Nov 1, 2011

(quoted from post at 23:03:59 11/01/11) Bob,

You come across as an a-hole. However, your advice is typically on-point and valuable. You should work on your people skills.

John

e is probably a bit like me in that he has seen too many posts that were wrong/bad advice.........I have to get my right hand to slap my left (& visa vers) off the keyboard to keep from blasting some of these 'would be do gooders if they had the knowledge' sometimes. At least give a fair warning like I did........ "just guessing that 4010 may be much like 4020 ..."

P.S. the batteries are in series and charged by 24v generator and besides the 24v available, there is +12v AND -12v available as well. (on 4010)

Tx Jim · Nov 2, 2011

(quoted from post at 23:03:59 11/01/11) Bob,
However, your advice is typically on-point and valuable. You should work on your people skills. John

I think all Bob stated was that wisbaker made a incorrect statement. Mac you are correct Bob is very knowledgeable. I've made incorrect statements on this forum and I don't mind someone correcting me in fact I would rather they did. How can someone come close to correcting a problem with the wrong information??????????

LJD · Nov 2, 2011

Tell me how Wizbang was incorrect and Bob was not out of line.

In 1960, the Dubuque 1010 was certainly considered "new generation" by many - including me. 1010 diesel started out with exactly the system Wisbaker described. It used a series-parallel switch to allow 24 volt cranking, but 12 volts for the general system. I've worked on several of them. Note this was NOT the covoluted Delco system used later by Waterloo with 24 cranking, 12 volts neg on one side of the system and 12 volts positive on the other.

What is it with this forum? Somebody says something that is factually correct and people jump all over the guy?

LJD · Nov 2, 2011

More in regard to this interchange . . .

Wisbaker stated . . .
"I seem to remember some of the new generation tractors had a switch that changed the batteries from parallel to series to give you 24V to start but allowed the batteries and accesories to be 12V"

Bob stated . . .

Your "memory" is 100% FALSE.

I checked my Deere archives just be sure Deere themselves called the 1010 part of their "New Generation." I worked on them new, but had to check anyway.

Yes they did and yes they had series-parallel systems just as Wisbaker stated.

It's bad enough to jump on a guy even when he DOES make a mistake. And when he was actually correct? Gee wiz, what is with this place. No longer a friendly forum of sharing ideas and info?

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Tx Jim · Nov 2, 2011

LJD
Would you please explain why a 1010 industrial crawler wiring has any bearing on a GREEN '64 4020 that never had the type switch you're referring to. Are you trying to state that some JD 4020's had such as switch?????????

LJD · Nov 2, 2011

I'm one of those people that believes words have meaning.

Wisbaker stated ""I seem to remember some of the new generation tractors had a switch that changed the batteries from parallel to series to give you 24V to start but allowed the batteries and accesories to be 12V"

Note he did make his comment specific to just Waterloo ag tractors, or a New Gen 4020. He said "New Generation tractors."

1010 crawler came in ag and industrial and is indeed a "New Generation" tractor that was made by Deere and did indeed have the setup Wisbaker mentioned.

What Wisbaker said and how he said it is 100% correct. 100% correct is far from the 100% wrong he was accused of.

Now if he'd claimed 4020s had the setup, he WOULD be wrong. But from his sentence that I cited, he certainly did NOT.

LJD · Nov 2, 2011

One more comment. 1010 crawler tractor was offered in industrial and ag from Deere. Not that it matters since I know of no rule that says a tractor is only a tractor if it's green and not yellow. I have a Deere yellow 300 and it's just as much a tractor as my green 1020. In fact, the 300 has better hydraulics.

This is from the John Deere 1961 agricultural brochure - NOT industrial.

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Tx Jim · Nov 2, 2011

Since I spent over 20 yrs('65-'87) employed at a JD AG dealership I didn't need for you to tell me that 1010 crawlers were painted green or ind yellow.
But what I'm really looking for is "your explanation" as to WHAT a green or ind yellow 1010 crawler has got to do with the wiring on a '68 4020????? Once you get away from 24V on the 1010 ad you've shown there's no similarity.

leej · Nov 2, 2011

(quoted from post at 18:08:06 11/02/11) I'm one of those people that believes words have meaning.

Wisbaker stated ""I seem to remember some of the new generation tractors had a switch that changed the batteries from parallel to series to give you 24V to start but allowed the batteries and accesories to be 12V"

Note he did make his comment specific to just Waterloo ag tractors, or a New Gen 4020. He said "New Generation tractors."

1010 crawler came in ag and industrial and is indeed a "New Generation" tractor that was made by Deere and did indeed have the setup Wisbaker mentioned.

What Wisbaker said and how he said it is 100% correct. 100% correct is far from the 100% wrong he was accused of.

Now if he'd claimed 4020s had the setup, he WOULD be wrong. But from his sentence that I cited, he certainly did NOT.

Perhaps extracted parts are correct, but the subject was 4020 and he certainly implied that the man's 4020 had such a "gizmo".
" I seem to remember some of the new generation tractors had a switch that changed the batteries from parallel to series to give you 24V to start but allowed the batteries and accesories to be 12V, I'd check that gizmo 1st"

JBMac · Nov 2, 2011

Bob,

I was really just ribbing you a little. I've noticed, from the shadows, that your advice is very sage. No harm, no foul I hope.

JBM

Anonymous-0 · Nov 2, 2011

Put the shifter in gear , THEN Slam the shifter back into park,, My 4020 p -shitplays that trik on me often ,,

'64 JD 4020 Electrical Start Problem

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