saving money with diesel pickups

rustyfarmall · Oct 31, 2011

(quoted from post at 13:09:22 10/31/11) Lets see, today's price of highway diesel is $3.83 and highway gasoline is $3.52.
Diesel is 9% more expensive than gasoline per gallon.
How much better fuel efficiency does that diesel pickup have to have? Just break even on the difference on fuel price. Then break even on the diesel option cost? Add the extra service costs of the diesel's filters, extra crankcase oil etc?
As the truck ages or miles past warranty, how about all the emissions/injection/electrical equipment service?

I pretty much had that one figured out when I bought my gasser 10 years ago.

buickanddeere · Oct 31, 2011

Lets see, today's price of highway diesel is $3.83 and highway gasoline is $3.52.
Diesel is 9% more expensive than gasoline per gallon.
How much better fuel efficiency does that diesel pickup have to have? Just break even on the difference on fuel price. Then break even on the diesel option cost? Add the extra service costs of the diesel's filters, extra crankcase oil etc?
As the truck ages or miles past warranty, how about all the emissions/injection/electrical equipment service?

Game Over · Oct 31, 2011

Nothin like the power and tourqe of them diesels though.

sixtyninegmc · Oct 31, 2011

The way I figure, I would only buy a diesel truck with the right rear gearing in it, most modern pickups are way too deep of gears for fuel economy, and then I would never buy one of the newer diesels because they are built to drive too much like a gas, and so lose many of the benefits of a diesel (a cummins at 3500rpm? Not for me). And then I would figure on the diesel lasting long enough to buy lube in bulk, which will more than offset the cost of oil changes, and then we can figure in that diesels last longer than gas engines by far. Most of the newer pickups will not live as long as a good diesel engine, but many of the older ones are still driving with well over half a million miles on them, some with a good deal more than that. A commercial truck engine with a million miles is not very uncommon, no reason not to get the same out of a pickup if treated well. That is where I see the benefit of a diesel, most will never get that benefit in our modern throwaway culture.

RwEny · Oct 31, 2011

If you get a gasser with the same torque your mpg will be a lot more. If you are towing a lot diesel is the better way.

1936 · Oct 31, 2011

Diesel engines are close to 10 grand over the gassers new. The T to T drivers Tavern to tavern in town are dropping back to gas.

sixtyninegmc · Oct 31, 2011

And we are going to be getting a gasser with the same torque where? Besides that, I spent many years driving a chevy gasser with 400 ft-lbs of torque at 3000RPM while my neighbor drove a 2wd `93 dodge cummins with around 400ft-lbs and his 22MPG sure was sweeter than my 12MPG. If you try and lug a gas around at the RPM a diesel gets its best economy, you are going to be shopping for a motor.

I don`t think a diesel is for everyone, but for people that actually work there trucks, I prefer oil-burners.

Anonymous-0 · Oct 31, 2011

At work we just dumped $3k into an 05 Powerstroke that has 65K miles on it to replace egr components and oil cooler. Glad it's not mine.

LJD · Oct 31, 2011

Are you citing prices for Canadian gallons or US gallons? Big difference.

Highway diesel here in central New York is $4.20 (US gallon) today while gasoline is $3.69 (US gallon). Dyed medium-sulfur off-road diesel is $3.49.

When the big plan first came out to cook the sulfur out of diesel and then add lube back in - the price was not supposed to go up more then 5%. Seems like somebody goofed or lied. And to add insult to injury the ultra-low sulfur diesel has less BTU energy then the old diesel fuel.

That all said, my 92 Dodge 4WD extended cab with a 5.9 Cummins gets 19 MPG on a highway run. My sons gas 3/4 ton 4WD extended-cab Chevy truck gets 15 at best. So, if I drive 19 miles I pay $4.20 if I use highway fuel. My son goes 20 miles and pays $4.92. The diesel still wins.

That being said, anybody who's going to go in hock for $50,000 on a new diesel truck and think they're going to save anything - needs mental help. I'd be sick just paying the sales tax on the deal.

buickanddeere · Oct 31, 2011

This is the site from which the prices were quoted. Looks like it needs updating.

http://ycharts.com/indicators/reports/us_weekly_retail_gasoline_and_on_highway_diesel_prices

Dblair · Oct 31, 2011

bought my diesel in 96 when diesel was 10 cents or better below gas . the first 100k paid for the diesel option and the mileage has been between 16 and 20 riding 9 to 15 towing depending on load . diesel option was almost 6k . still towing and driving at 290k . I don't think buying one now would be a savings at today's prices .

John M · Oct 31, 2011

And? Ill gladly take any new truck youre willing to buy for me. Til then, Ill buy what I want!

Mathias NY · Oct 31, 2011

So, lets work with gas at $3.69/gal and diesel at $4.20/gal and we presume that the respective trucks get 15 and 19 mpg. That works out to $.25/mile and $.22/mile respectively.

Now when you consider that a diesel truck will cost over than $5k more (closer to $8k on a new truck) that will take you 166,667 miles to cover the purchase cost. When you consider that a diesel will cost more to service, the only way to recoup your cost is to sell the truck before it has been run into the ground and before it needs an injection pump.

Just my thoughts...

Allan in NE · Oct 31, 2011

Dunno Pard,

Think you are sittin' in the wrong pew. It's not about the cost of fuel at all.

Just like tractors, the diesels will absolutely yank the lug nuts off of ANY gas outfit. No comparision at all.

Allan

Anonymous-0 · Oct 31, 2011

Just curious,as a former diesel owner ,back when I farmed,did they go thru with the deal where you had to add urea to a separate tank ? If so is it readly available and at what cost?

Welding man · Oct 31, 2011

It's not all about saving money, it's about what you want and can afford. That is why some people drive Cadillacs and some drive Chevys.Personally I like the power and the torque of a Cummins and don't forget the SOUND,Oh Yes the sound of a Diesel, kindly like a Harley or a 2 Cyl.John Deere. PRICELESS!!!!

LJD · Oct 31, 2011

It would be a cold day in h*ll before I ever bought new - gas or diesel.

I paid $3500 for my 92 Dodge 4WD extended cab diesel truck around 8 years ago. It had 120,000 miles on it. Since then, I've made no repairs other then an exhaust system and a $8 pin in the Getrag transmission shifter. Now has 215,000 miles and runs perfect. General maintenace, yes - just like I'd do for any rig. Motor oil is the same price gas or diesel since I use diesel rated 15W-40 in all our cars and trucks. Filters cost more, but still doesn't add up to much.

I've also got a 94 Ford F250 4WD extended cab diesel. I bought that 9 years ago for $3300 with 185,000 miles on it. Now has 260,000. I only had to do one repair and it was a big one. I had to rebuild the E40D trans. I spent $1800 on it and added some upgrades. Truck still runs perfect but only gets a best of 17 MPG. I'm sure E40Ds go bad in gas trucks too.

I don't see where I've lost any "big bucks" buying diesel trucks. Both have been extremely reliable. And since I paid cash, I've never had to pay more then $300 per year for insurance on either one. Also, the New York inspection fee is half-price because they are older vehicles.

Considering my 1969 Dodge 3/4 ton Power Wagon gets a best of 8 MPG on the highway (318 engine and 4.88 axle ratios) - I think I've done just fine with my diesels. Purchase price was probably less then many pay just in sales-tax on a new rig.

Traditional Farmer · Oct 31, 2011

Diesels have way more power,run a lot longer,my 1999 Ford powerstroke with 150,000 is virtually untouched except oil changes and filters and diesels have a much higher resale value most likely could recoup the extra I paid for the diesel engine over a gasser if I sold it.And I'm driving a REAL truck not a gasser immitation.

4010 puller · Oct 31, 2011

They may cost more than a gas truck but the resale value of a used diesel is nearly enough vs a gas of same make/model to pay for the diesel option. Fuel economy is better. My duramax get 16mpg every day, about 11 loaded very heavy. I think a gas would be averaging 11 on a good day, empty. With the way these NEW trucks are there are no options. Fixed rear end gears, auto tranny, 2 or 4 wd, gas or diesel with 1 gas engine option. Maintenance and repair bills are definately higher on the diesel though, no doubt arguing.

rustyfarmall · Oct 31, 2011

(quoted from post at 13:22:01 10/31/11) The way I figure, I would only buy a diesel truck with the right rear gearing in it, most modern pickups are way too deep of gears for fuel economy, and then I would never buy one of the newer diesels because they are built to drive too much like a gas, and so lose many of the benefits of a diesel (a cummins at 3500rpm? Not for me). And then I would figure on the diesel lasting long enough to buy lube in bulk, which will more than offset the cost of oil changes, and then we can figure in that diesels last longer than gas engines by far. Most of the newer pickups will not live as long as a good diesel engine, but many of the older ones are still driving with well over half a million miles on them, some with a good deal more than that. A commercial truck engine with a million miles is not very uncommon, no reason not to get the same out of a pickup if treated well. That is where I see the benefit of a diesel, most will never get that benefit in our modern throwaway culture.

You are only partially correct. The vast majority of over the road trucks recieve an in-frame at somewhere around 250,000 to 300,000, and a full, out of frame rebuild at around 500,000 to 600,000 miles. The one BIG reason they can get to that 300,000 mark is because most of 'em are started up and driven for close to 1,000 miles at a time before they are shut down again, and even then they do not cool completely down before thay are cranked up again for another 1,000 miles. I doubt very much if there is even ONE diesel powered pick-up truck that can make those same claims, so while getting 250,000 miles out of a diesel in a pick-up truck is entirely possible, going much further than that will require laying out considerably more cash.

David G · Oct 31, 2011

I do not expect it to pay me back. I just enjoy the sound and torque of the diesel.

sotxbill · Oct 31, 2011

ok.. pull 13,000to 25,000 lbs behind the truck and rerun the gas miledge equation. the gas truck gets 3.9 to 5 mpg.. the diesel gets 9 to 16mpg.. tell me who wins then. I have an older one and get 18.7 to 22 mpg empty but I dont run it empty very often when I have a car diesel that gets 37 to 53 mpg. I laugh all the way to the bank.

if you dont pull, it takes about 100k to break even on costs. if you do pull, it can take 25k to break even.

so all the bar flys and saturdays nites are dumping their toys and the real folks get to step in a take adavantage of the used market.

onefarmer · Oct 31, 2011

Let's see, my '95 F150 w/302 got 13mpg and my '96 F250 7.3 psd gets 16mpg everday driving.

Pulling 120 bales of hay on a trailer F150 would use most of a 18 gal tank for one trip. F250 makes the same trip with the same tank fuel, twice.

sixtyninegmc · Oct 31, 2011

(quoted from post at 15:13:46 10/31/11)

You are only partially correct. The vast majority of over the road trucks recieve an in-frame at somewhere around 250,000 to 300,000, and a full, out of frame rebuild at around 500,000 to 600,000 miles. The one BIG reason they can get to that 300,000 mark is because most of 'em are started up and driven for close to 1,000 miles at a time before they are shut down again, and even then they do not cool completely down before thay are cranked up again for another 1,000 miles. I doubt very much if there is even ONE diesel powered pick-up truck that can make those same claims, so while getting 250,000 miles out of a diesel in a pick-up truck is entirely possible, going much further than that will require laying out considerably more cash.

Sorry, gonna have to disagree with you. I have grown up around trucks, driven them and maintained two decent sized fleets. Our 2001 Western Star has a 500HP 60 series detroit in it that has not been cracked open at 985,000 miles, still runs like a top, blowby is starting to increase so will probably get a liner kit around 1,000,000 or so miles, tranny is getting loose anyway. The W900B Kenworth I drove before that had a 475HP 3406E cat with 780,000 miles, never been opened. My old mans `76 Pete with a 400 Cummins had 600,000 on it when he sold it.

There are lemons out there, but if properly maintained, big diesels will last a long time. In my experience, I don`t trust the newer engines that are making over about 500HP to last nearly as long as the lower-rated engines. I would never own a truck with one of the newer emissions engines in it, or one of the new 550-650HP hot-rods. Most of the ISX cummins I have been around have EGR issues, and most have been rebuilt by 450,000 and some don`t make it that long, same with the newer CAT and detroit motors. I think we are just trying to push too much power out of a given displacement, and the same thing applys to newer pickup diesels. That is why if I get a diesel pickup, it will have a P-pumped 12 valve cummins in it, and it will not get turned up.

And you are right that big rigs get run longer every time they fire up, that makes a big difference in longevity, and that will have an effect on a pickups lifespan if it is used to go get groceries.

Josh

gunintruck · Oct 31, 2011

the gas diesel battle will never end. but as for me the gas trucks have it we have a one owner diesel the gets 11 mpg with a 20 ft alum stock trailer. i have a a half ton that i pull the same trailer with that the last time i check got the same milage and pulled it faster. now i have 3/4 with a bigger gasser that will pull it faster at the same milage. all ford and all hand calculated not computer. my 3/4 ran with newer duramax earlier this month on milage pulling trailer in mountains. so if you take the oil changes and added fuel cost the diesel cost more. and when you run any truck 300k they are not worth alot. you show me a 300k diesel worth 6-10 grand worth more than a 300k gas same size truck any brand. if you trade before 100k the value might be worth it?

bugtussle

John730D · Oct 31, 2011

I drive my own semi every day and I have three diesel tractors. I will NEVER buy a diesel truck. It will never pay for itself. And I don't have the need to be MACHO. Gas pickups have served me very well. V-10 Fords and Dodges.
They are so much cheaper to operate and own.

mmidlam · Oct 31, 2011

I never seem to find good deals like that.

Kestrel in CT · Oct 31, 2011

Plus no danger of an explosion if'n ye be underneath fixing something with a lit torch or dangling a cigarette in your mouth.

Lumpie · Oct 31, 2011

That's because the vast majority of over the road trucks are being driven by inbred dingbats. A truck is just barely broke in at 300,000 miles, if it's being overhauled already blame the driver. Look at all the owner-operators still running early '90's Petes and KW's. They're not making money when the trucks sitting in the shop with the hood up.

bill mart · Oct 31, 2011

try getting 300,000 miles in any area that uses salt or chloride on the roads. Bill M.

Adirondack case guy · Oct 31, 2011

A gas truck will deal with most any poor fuel, (water included), will an injection pump deal with low sulfer fuels, to say nothing of moisture?

S2710 · Oct 31, 2011

I used to drive a 1998 Ford quad axel milk truck. It had a C12 cat engine in it. When it was new it used a gallon of oil in 5000 miles and at 10000 when we changed oil it was down another gallon. When the truck was traded off at over 600,000 it used the same amount of oil,and had not lost much power. It was started and stoped at least 20 times a day. The only repair on it was at 550,000 the gear on the cam broke.

Bob

Ultradog MN · Oct 31, 2011

Diesels Stink.
Never fuel your diesel pickup if you have nice clothes and shoes on. For sure it will get on your clothes and you'll smell like a chump at church, wedding, funeral, graduation, whatever.
When you add up the extra laundering, washing hands and the sour look from the Mrs. cause you stink like a clod again the diesel doesn't stack up to a gasser.

ralph wilton · Oct 31, 2011

i was looking for a diesel pickup to pull my stock trailer it is a 22 foot and will haul 40 head of hogs i was hauling 90 miles one way all interstate of course and my 99 f250 with a 5.4 would do the job but it has no 65 mph gear with a load overdive wont pull it and direct you sare turning 3000 rpm it wasnt going to last long at that. so i found a chevy c7000 with a 7 liter cat 3116 it will run out good has air brakes 6 speed trans and 33000gvw gets 15 mpg loaded and will stop its a 98 model with 145000 and i gave 2000 dollars for it i put a flat bed on it and love it pleanty of power and when i get to the sale barn the other guys trucks are hot and u can smell thier brakes this was the right choice for me cause i couldnt see pay a huge price and making it smell like hogs.

farmer boy · Oct 31, 2011

Where are you getting fuel for those prices. I don't think most buy a diesel for the payback. I get a maximum 18.3 mpg with a Chev 305. Lets figure a 350 gets 17 mpg max. A 12v Cummins could likely get 20 mpg doing the same thing. Here diesel is 1.219 or 4.61/gal and gas is 1.189 or 4.49/gal. I'll figure over 400000 miles. Figuring the diesel lasts all of that and the gas needs a rebuild at 200000 miles. Lets say the diesel needs injectors at 200000 miles at 115 a piece($690) and a turbo at 200000 miles($800) and a head as well($800). The rebuild for the gas will be $1200. Oil changes will cost $30 for gas and $70 for diesel every 5000 miles for a total of 80 oil changes. 1/4 of the trucks life will be spent towing a 10000 lb flatbed for a total of 100000 miles. Gas mileage will be 8 mpg and diesel will be 10mpg. That means the diesel will take 24,090.1 gallons for a total cost of 111,055.36 and the gas will take a total of 30,147.06 gallons for a total cost of 135,360.26. Oil changes will cost the gas $2400.00 and the diesel $5600.00 Total cost for the diesel will be 118,945.36. Total cost for gas is 138,960.29 leaving over $20000 to buy the diesel. Even over 200000 miles the diesel would pay. I realize I'm comparing two trucks that could be up to 15 years old so lets do this with a new ones. Being you're a GM guy I'll put a 2011 Chev Silverado with a 6.6L diesel against a Chev Silverado with a 6.0L gas. Both will be extended cab 4wd sb LT trim. The gas costs 41440.00 and the diesel $52260. Over 300000 miles. No rebuilds on anything. Each need the same number of sensors replaced. We'll say the 6.0 gets 13 mpg and the diesel 15 mpg. The gas at 8 when towing the the diesel 9. Same load as above only this time for 75000 miles. The oil change costs will be the same as above. Diesel $5600 gas $2400. No major repairs on either. The diesel will use a cost a total of $113,166.65 and the gas 122,205.27 so a total difference of 9,038.62. The diesel could then be sold for $7,000 and the gas for $3,000 so a total difference of 13,038.62 so in the end you would likely break even. Personally if I'm going to break even I'm going with the diesel. Now let's say both are towing full time. Oil changes reduced to 3000 miles. 100 oil changes so $3000 for gas and $7000 for diesel. At 9mpg a diesel would cost a total of 160,666.67 to operate. A gas would cost $171,375.00 so the diesel would break even plus better resale value(both basically worthless). Diesel (in this case) would never run out of power in hills, etc. I realize that I may have missed some thigns that may tip the scales to gas but over all, long term, diesel makes just as much sense as gas. It liekly depends on how much towing you do.

fort67 · Oct 31, 2011

Depends on what you use it for. I have all 7.3 diesels. One 1990 w/ 440,000 miles. Not afraid to take it anywhere. It's my daily driver and approximately 18+/gal. and cheap to fix. Injection pump rebuild was $185.00 and injectors around $25/pc. Standard transmission not a fast truck. Pulled trailer and load approximately 13000#. got 12.5/gal.
The other two are powerstroke (7.3) and both have over 300,000 miles and use no oil and still run like new. They are alot more expense to fix when you have a problem. I needed trucks that able to run some miles. I think I've done well. But if just around town I would probaly by a gas.

Larry B 1486 · Oct 31, 2011

Diesel pickups are the reason today diesel being more expensive than gas. If you look back 12 years ago, diesel was around $0.89 a gallon and gas was $1.49 per gal. Then when the number of diesel pickups increased atleast 5 times on the roads, diesel shot up over gas.

fort67 · Oct 31, 2011

Depends on what you use it for. I have all 7.3 diesels. One 1990 w/ 440,000 miles. Not afraid to take it anywhere. It's my daily driver and approximately 18+/gal. and cheap to fix. Injection pump rebuild was $185.00 and injectors around $25/pc. Standard transmission not a fast truck. Pulled trailer and load approximately 13000#. got 12.5/gal.
The other two are powerstroke (7.3) and both have over 300,000 miles and use no oil and still run like new. They are alot more expense to fix when you have a problem. I needed trucks that able to run some miles. I think I've done well. But if just around town I would probaly by a gas.

Ultradog MN · Oct 31, 2011

The other half of it is diesels are noisy. Try firing up the Powerstoke or your Cummins before the Priest gives the final benediction at the gravesite.
Major faux pas.
The dead can hear it.
All you wanted to do was beat the rush to the American Legion and maybe have a bump with your cousin before the crowd got there for the luncheon. But the stinky, noisy diesel befouls the whole cemetary before you can get out of there.
So that, along with the stink on your clothes makes you seem a little disrepectful of the deceased.
You could have got away with it if you had a gasser. Especially if it was a Honda or Toyota.
Since we're talking about the costs here
what is the opposite of Priceless anyway?

Ken Macfarlane · Oct 31, 2011

If you start from a used gas truck the numbers are even better. We got a gas 2001 F350 SD crew cab 4x4 for 1300$, had 120,000 miles on it and a power tailgate. I've had it almost 2 years and had to put 500$ to get it up to snuff. We've put maybe 10,000 miles on it and she's a good truck. Gets about 13 mpg empty on the highway or the city, empty or towing a lightly loaded trailer. The 27 ft flatbed knocks it back to about 10 mpg.

The cheapest diesel I saw was rusted out, 2wd, regular cab and 3000$ more expensive. As a truck just used to tow ocassionally, both are not going to last another 10 years in the salt here, would never get the money back.

jm. · Oct 31, 2011

Rusty:; I think your statement "The vast majority" is a little off at least in my part of the country. Fleets running cummings,or cats around here routinly do not look at in frame overhauls till the 500 hundred thousand figuer then do the major closer to the milion. we have a fleet of cummings powred ih (23 units) and never have opened the bottom of one less than 500 thousand.

Anonymous-0 · Oct 31, 2011

I've got a pair of '04 dodges. One is a HO diesel, auto, QC, 4wd, long bed 2500. Other is same truck except hemi gasser. Both are used in my business. Both have roughly 175,000 miles. Both pull trailers with a loaded weight of approx 8,000lbs. I keep very accurate records on expenses starting with purchase price.

Both will run on down the highway @ speed limit. Diesel has a SLIGHT advantage on hills. Gas is quieter, less overall repairs, and ties up less capital.

Over 175,000 miles of use, gasser is roughly 17% CHEAPER to own/operate. Gonna buy 2 new trucks in the next year. Gonna be gassers.

YMMV.

guido · Oct 31, 2011

Hello buicknaddeere,
It has always been that the diesel WAS better, cheaper per miles driven.
Diesel engines are at least 10 more efficient then the gas engines.
You have to do the math, if it works for you.
As they say: your mileage may vary!
Guido.

BANDITFARMER · Oct 31, 2011

Back in 96 I bought a new 95 F350 5.8 auto for $15000 and was a left over. The best it got was 16mpg till it got 100000 miles on it then it was 11 mpg no mater what you did with it. At 150k had to have the trans rebuilt and 250k had to put a starter, alt, water pump and hoses and battery. Now has 298000 miles and still runs good. Last spring I bought a 96 F350 7.3 auto xcab flat bed with 85000 original miles and gave $4300 for it. Runs good and now gets up to 19mpg (after $1000 in work) but averages 17mpg. Now it don't take long to figure out which one I am driving now the most. Both run good and will pull anything I hook to them but the diesel is cheaper to drive and has more power than the gas ever did. I still like the old gas truck and still use it put the diesel was bought to replace the gas truck as it has all most 300000 miles on it and lets face it its worn out. This is the first diesel truck I have owned and maybe the last, I don't know but for now I can stand to drive it at this mileage and its easy to drive. And the debate goes on. Bandit

Doug in Illinois · Oct 31, 2011

No, the diesel pickups have very little to do with the high price of diesel.

It is the world wide demand. More diesel cars are sold than gas burners overseas. So that drives up demand and prices. DOUG

Brian Jasper co. Ia · Oct 31, 2011

Noise? Thats why you get a Duramax...

Pair-a-dice farm · Oct 31, 2011

For me I can't justify a diesel. I like the torq but I don't pull a trailer all the time. I get 300K out of a gasser and by that time the truck is worn out. If I consider the initial cost and difference in fuel cost it would take 300K for me to break even and that don't consider the interest on the extra cost of the diesel.

jose bagge · Oct 31, 2011

When I bought my Duramax, deisel fuel was .20 cents less per gallon than gas. That changed about a year after I got into the truck.

I was late to the gold deal too. I take solace in the claim that it"s a half million mile motor,and hope that it"s the last truck I"ll ever buy.

Brian Jasper co. Ia · Oct 31, 2011

There is no difference in BTU content ULSD to low sulfur fuel. #2 fuel is typically 35 to 37 on the API scale.

bg/mo · Oct 31, 2011

It seems to me one of the four wheeling magazines did a article on this, and their conclusion was you would have to keep the truck a long , long time just to recover the extra cost of the diesel option, if you bought the truck new,not counting maintance.

willie in mn · Oct 31, 2011

rustyfarmall
Never let facts spoil a good story. Have no idea where you got your numbers.
Retired a few years ago, so some of the latest models might be a bit different. When I was still working, Cat, Cummins, Detroit, & Mack had 500k factory warranty. If using Mobil 1 oil under their service plan, Mobil would extend that warranty to 1 million miles.
Last employer I drove for had a fleet of about 900 units, all Cummins 14 liter powered. Rotate out at 500k. Only engine failure I heard about was a cracked head. Personally normally added 1 gal oil between changes.
Employer before that had fleet of over road busses, Detroit 8V 71 & 8V 92 power. Anything with less than 300k was considered a "fresh" engine. Pull & rebuild at around 750-800k. Kept spare engines on hand, did rebuilding "in house". In emergency could do engine swap in less than 6 hours.
Willie

Anonymous-0 · Oct 31, 2011

If the main thing you add to the nation is noise and black smoke, then by all means get a diesel, so we can all see you and hear you and smell you. If on the other hand you want to be efficent and productive and quietly add to the quality of life in our rural community...well you know the choice.

By the way, somehow I knew what your objective was when I saw CUMMINS tattooed across your forehead.

buickanddeere · Oct 31, 2011

(quoted from post at 18:06:45 10/31/11) It would be a cold day in h*ll before I ever bought new - gas or diesel.

I paid $3500 for my 92 Dodge 4WD extended cab diesel truck around 8 years ago. It had 120,000 miles on it.

1992? Around here that truck was rusted through and junked 5 years ago.

David G · Oct 31, 2011

I have one of the new clean diesels. The exhaust smells like a propane engine, and there is no soot. The filter regenerates about every 250 miles.

I have 17K on it now and love it.

VicS · Oct 31, 2011

Diesels don't make $ and cents. But I love them. It is about 1/2 mile from our morning coffee stop back to a little town. We casually leave, driving easy watching in the rear view mirror. You can't let anyone pass you going back to town. I have a old 91Dodge Diesel the(Grey Ghost) She will hold her own Against almost anything, spewing out a black cloud of smoke for a 1/4 of a mile, and she is governed out. Not politically correct but I love it. From our scientifically devised runs back to town, a New Ford twin turbo V6 is the fastest. My good truck is a F250 Ford 5.4 gasser. My neighbor said the other morning , if Diesel's were standard, I would pay $4000 extra for a quiet one. LOL Vic

Jerry/MT · Oct 31, 2011

You bring up a good point buickanddeere. I haven"t run the numbers but it depends how you use the truck. So the answer for every user is a different.

If you need to pull a heavy trailer regularly, then you need the capability of a big truck. If it"s diesel powered it will most likely have that capability with something like aa 3.73 rear axle. If you try that with a gasser, the rear axle is most likely a 4.11. Now for the times you aren"t pulling the trailer and just cruising down the road you"ll have the pretty poor fuel mileage with the gasser. When you pull the trailer the gasser will probably be about 50% worse. My "99 Powerstroke running above it"s rated weight limit pulling a GN flatbed with a NH TD95D tractor with loader through mountain country from Hagerman, NM (near Roswell) to St. Ignatius, MT and got 11-12 mpg. I would have gotten about half that with a gasser. Unloaded, the truck gets about 18 mpg. So if a guy is always pulling a trailer with the truck, it might pay off to get a diesel. If you"re not ever going to pull a trailer than a small block gasser is the way to go from a cost standpoint. If your in between then it just depends.

I need the capabilty to tow up to GVWR(20,000lbs) and that drove my decision re garding the truck and the fact that I"d have had to get the gasser 460 with a 4.11 to even tow that weight. That coupled with the fact than when I bought the truck, diesel was ~15-20 % cheaper than gas. I didn"t do a full blown analysis of the initial cost of the diesel over the gas and the fuel maileage advantage of the diesel over gas and the extra maintenance cost of the diesel over the gas and the fuel price difference of diesel over gas but given the known economics at the time cowboy logic said the diesel would pay off. I"m not so sure that would be the case today with difference in diesel fuel price.

Tim in OR · Oct 31, 2011

I got my 02 Duramax new in 02. the advantages were, 1 diesel was about 15 cents cheaper, and 2 I didn't have to smog test it. shortly after buying, the price of diesel jumped up. now I have to run it to the smog test station just to confirm the gvw so I don't have to test it. I hate those smog test guys.
Tim in OR

Anonymous-0 · Oct 31, 2011

boy do I wish they didn't have the internet in Canada

billonthefarm · Oct 31, 2011

That made me laugh out loud. Honest to goodness, the best laugh I had in awhile.
bill

Anonymous-0 · Oct 31, 2011

Yes, and everyone should drive a Yugo-type car., Gets you from point A to B, which is all a car is for.

I like my Diesel pickups, no need to justify them..

buickanddeere · Oct 31, 2011

10%, 10 miles per gallon or 10 times better ???

fixerupper · Oct 31, 2011

The reason most farmers around here have a diesel is just because it's a diesel. There doesn't seem to be a valid reason. They don't pull trailers enough to justify it. Maybe it's because the tractors, combine, truck are diesel, therefore the pickup has to be diesel too. I'm guilty too, mine's a Cummins, but it's parked in the barn most of the time while I drive the rusty 'ol' low status S-10 that uses the same fuel summer or winter, always starts in the winter, doesn't jell, only needs one small battery, and doesn't have a $2500 injection pump. But when I do drive the Cummins, I'm driving a one ton long frame dually with STATUS that I can leave idling by the coffee shop door so every hears and smells my DIESEL! Jim

buickanddeere · Oct 31, 2011

Lets clarify this. Instead of comparing apples and oranges with any new truck vs older pre-emission diesels.
How about the choice for Bubba in 2011. As he's in the dealer's lot, looking at an otherwise identical 2012 gasser vs. a 2012 diesel.

oldtanker · Oct 31, 2011

Lotta arguing going on. So lets look at this a different way discounting the guys who own a diesel just cause they like em.

The average driver in the US drives 11,000 miles a year. The average owner of an SUV or truck pulls a trailer very seldom. They figure that the average 4X4 sold today will never leave pavement, something like 98% will never see off road. The average new vehicle buyer trades every 5-7 years. So for what the average driver will do over the space of buying a new truck to trade they will never pay for the diesel option. Even the difference in trade value will not overcome the diesel option price.

Rick

Anonymous-0 · Nov 1, 2011

The 30% better fuel efficiency from diesel is rather more important here in UK when we are paying around $8 a ( US )gallon for diesel and gas . I don't think there will be anyone running a truck or SUV on gas , unless they are a soccer player or sell happy candy .
The one problem we have here now is that small diesels are getting expensive and complicated , and don't like short journeys without getting smogged up .

John M · Nov 1, 2011

(quoted from post at 15:13:46 10/31/11)

(quoted from post at 13:22:01 10/31/11) The way I figure, I would only buy a diesel truck with the right rear gearing in it, most modern pickups are way too deep of gears for fuel economy, and then I would never buy one of the newer diesels because they are built to drive too much like a gas, and so lose many of the benefits of a diesel (a cummins at 3500rpm? Not for me). And then I would figure on the diesel lasting long enough to buy lube in bulk, which will more than offset the cost of oil changes, and then we can figure in that diesels last longer than gas engines by far. Most of the newer pickups will not live as long as a good diesel engine, but many of the older ones are still driving with well over half a million miles on them, some with a good deal more than that. A commercial truck engine with a million miles is not very uncommon, no reason not to get the same out of a pickup if treated well. That is where I see the benefit of a diesel, most will never get that benefit in our modern throwaway culture.

Click to expand...

You are only partially correct. The vast majority of over the road trucks recieve an in-frame at somewhere around 250,000 to 300,000, and a full, out of frame rebuild at around 500,000 to 600,000 miles. The one BIG reason they can get to that 300,000 mark is because most of 'em are started up and driven for close to 1,000 miles at a time before they are shut down again, and even then they do not cool completely down before thay are cranked up again for another 1,000 miles. I doubt very much if there is even ONE diesel powered pick-up truck that can make those same claims, so while getting 250,000 miles out of a diesel in a pick-up truck is entirely possible, going much further than that will require laying out considerably more cash.

You been drinking too? Maybe you should check your "facts" before spitting out jiberish like that!

LJD · Nov 1, 2011

Same goes for my area of central New York. The 92 Dodge came from northern Maine in an area that does not use any road-salt. Just sand. It it almost rust-free. My 94 Ford came from Colorado and does not have a spot of rust. I never drive either in winter salt. In the winter, I use an 82 K10 Chevy with a 6.2 diesel. I traded 50 bales of hay for it maybe 10 years ago. Spent a couple of hundred bucks putting injectors and one head gasket into it. Came with a Myers plow. It is my winter truck and runs fine. Getting rusty? Yeah. When I got it it was rust free since it came from Long Island. But it's now falling apart. It has a four-speed manual overdrive trans and has gotten up to 23 MPG though.

My farmer next-door neighbor has a 2006 Dodge pickup and it's already got rust-holes in the rocker panels and upper fenders. Another guy nearby has a 2004 Chevy Duramax and it's getting rust holes all over.

LJD · Nov 1, 2011

I disagree, in general but cannot attest to all the fuel out there. I also cannot attest to published test reports. I just read them; can't verify them. The process of "cooking" the diesel to get the sulfur out has been reported to result in a 3-5% loss of BTU energy. This conincides with many reports of fleet trucks logging a 4-5% drop in fuel mileage when the ultra-low first got mandated (and people would notice the difference).

RodinNS · Nov 1, 2011

In general, with regard to new trucks... I agree with you. Most mileage claims I hear on new diesels are under 15 mpg. They cost 10-12K more to buy and the diesel costs more to buy.
The service cost/interval I think is a wash because you should get a lot longer from an oil/filter change on a diesel... and that should bring the cost about even...
The real risk is the cost of an emission fuster cluck on the new diesels.
My basic philosophy is that I can do most of my running around and light towing with a Ranger and when I have heavy work to do I get the tandem out... Between the pair I don't have half the price of a new 3/4 ton invested... and I can actually pull/haul something on the tandem...

Rod

LJD · Nov 1, 2011

Hey . . . what happened to the diesel that ran on gasoline? Chevy had it in development just when the US and Canadian government took over GM. I haven't heard a word about it since. It was a small V8 engine that used gasoline but with compression-ignition.

cumminspuller · Nov 1, 2011

I don"t care for much of any of the new gas burners cause they don"t have any power for pulling at all. If I was going to buy a new diesel it would be a dodge. Its the only one that you don"t have to put the exhaust fluid in. If you leave a gas or diesel stock and don"t change anything neither of them get any milage.

mkirsch · Nov 1, 2011

So you'd rather get poor fuel economy and squirt a $4+ gallon of diesel fuel into the tailpipe every couple hundred miles for a DPF regen?

The urea injection engines have much better fuel economy. The fluid is a lot cheaper than diesel, and a gallon lasts hundreds of miles.

I never understood how using MORE fuel is BETTER for the environment.

LJD · Nov 1, 2011

I haven't kept up with the new and have zero interest since I'd never, ever buy new.

Seems today's trucks are advertised by monthly payments instead of actual price. How many on these forums pay $50,000 cash for a piece of iron that rusts out in 10-15 years? Just the sales tax alone would be more then I'd ever pay for a truck.

In 1982, a Chevy 2WD gas truck was $6700 (retail). 4WD cost was an extra $2100. The diesel option was an extra $1100.

In 1992, a Dodge 4WD 3/4 ton 5.9 liter gas truck was $16,000 retail (the 4WD added $1200) 4WD with the 5.9 Cummins diesel was $17,200, i.e. $1200 extra.

Seems things have changed a little.

mark us · Nov 1, 2011

my old 97' power stroke has over 300,000 on it and still uses no oil not many gasers will do that especially in canada where they are too stupid to undercoat

farmer boy · Nov 1, 2011

Undercoating doesn't do anything in this salt wonderland. It works for about a month and does nothing for the next 4.

guido · Nov 1, 2011

Hello buickandeere,
10% more work for your money.
Guido.

JayinNY · Nov 1, 2011

Having 2 gas trucks a chevy k20 w/ 3.46 axels , and sn400 CID, and a 89 chevy 3500 w 350cid and 4.56 axles and then my 2000 7.3 ford 250 w 3.73 axles I'd take the diesel any day. I tow a trailer everyday, and have had the trucks loaded with wet grass, the diesel just pulls much better, like the gas trucks would being empty and no trailer. I also live on a hill we go from 200 ft elevation to 1400 in just a few miles. Ya oil filters r more, I buy 55 gallon drums of 15-40 for truck and tractors, costs less per gallon in bulk, anyhow I would buy another used diesel truck anyday over a gas truck, just a better work truck for my kind of work.

buickanddeere · Nov 1, 2011

Used to be most folk pulled with a 148HP 350 four barrel, 302/351 Ford or a 360 Dodge. A few souls out there with deep pockets had big blocks but not a whole lot more power.
They seemed to get along just fine.
The new 2000's gassers make far more power than those old 70's-90's gassers.
In fact the new gasser engines make close to same HP as the new diesels. And certainly today's gas engines more HP than the diesels of just 5 years ago.
Just wait until the Chev direct injection V8's arrive next year for another HP boost.
Chev/GMC has 360HP and 406 HP gas engines for 2011.
Dodge Cummins had to have the option high out engine to make 245HP in 2001-2002.
2003's produced 305HP.
Mid 2004 power was increased to 325HP.
2007 brought 350HP.

buickanddeere · Nov 1, 2011

Check the btu's per dollar at the current pump prices.

JayinNY · Nov 1, 2011

You get more torque out of a smaller displacement diesel than a bigger gas. Remember torque gets the load up the hill.

buickanddeere · Nov 1, 2011

(quoted from post at 17:18:27 11/01/11) You get more torque out of a smaller displacement diesel than a bigger gas. Remember torque gets the load up the hill.

Are you telling us a 300HP, 600ft lb torque diesel would be quicker up a hill. Than a 360HP, 380 lb ft gasser?

IndianaRed · Nov 2, 2011

I've said it before, unless you're towing pretty heavy quite often, or making your own soy fuel, you don't need a diesel anymore.

Just passed 516k miles on my gasser, tow and haul everyday. Yes, I had to put an oil pump in it at 501k, but the rest of the drivetrain is all original.

You know, I ask the GM shop guys if there was a service bulletin or recall on their oil pumps. They just looked at me. 500,000 miles seems a little early to lose a pump to me. They just don't make them like they used to. But I loves my chevy van!

I'll check-in again at 600,000.

Stuart · Nov 2, 2011

In some instances it can because the diesel makes more torque and hp at a lower rpm. You also have to look at how much torque and hp are getting to the rear wheels and how well the transmission use the hp and torque. I have a 300hp 505 ft lb of torque and yes I can beat gas engines to the top of the hill that have way more hp and torque than I do. Same payload and everything. Your just jealous because you probably cant afford a diesel of any kind.

Stuart · Nov 2, 2011

In some instances it can because the diesel makes more torque and hp at a lower rpm. You also have to look at how much torque and hp are getting to the rear wheels and how well the transmission use the hp and torque. I have a 300hp 505 ft lb of torque and yes I can beat gas engines to the top of the hill that have way more hp and torque than I do. Same payload and everything. Your just jealous because you probably cant afford a diesel of any kind.

guido · Nov 2, 2011

Hello buickanddeere,
Like i said do the math.
Your miles per gallon(liters per kilometers)may vary.
Guido.

mkirsch · Nov 2, 2011

Sure we got along "just fine" back in the 1970's with engines putting out a whopping 150HP, but it was a different time and place.

Fewer cars, better drivers, slower speeds, and nowhere near as many distractions. Someone was more likely to see a farm vehicle putzing along at 25MPH.

Nowadays, people just plow through them at 75MPH like they aren't even there as they yak away on their cell phone while surfing the web and eating a cheeseburger, high on prescription antidepressants and/or painkillers.

"That's their problem, not mine." I'm sure that's your attitude about it. I've heard it many times before.

But it is your problem... It's your equipment that gets destroyed. It's your income that gets destroyed. It's you that spends months fighting with lawyers and insurance adjusters to get compensated for all that loss.

That's if and only if you don't get hurt in the accident.

Hey, if you can afford to run out and buy a replacement truck and trailer while the lawyers slug it out, good for you. Most of us can't. We're working for a reason. Trying to get ahead, not necessarily succeeding.

buickanddeere · Nov 2, 2011

(quoted from post at 08:45:57 11/01/11) Hey . . . what happened to the diesel that ran on gasoline? Chevy had it in development just when the US and Canadian government took over GM. I haven't heard a word about it since. It was a small V8 engine that used gasoline but with compression-ignition.

Where have you been? I've mentioned the direct injection V8 Chev's for 2013 several times.
GM has been running direct injection gassers with fours and a V6 for years.

buickanddeere · Nov 2, 2011

You must have been listening to teddy52food explain Newman's laws of physics.

The 360HP gas truck will perform more work per hour than the 305HP diesel. The 360HP engine will haul the same weight up the same hill faster and sooner.

For those however in the HP race with the fastest 1/4 mile times with a pickup, trailer and load combo. Just how fast is fast enough?

buickanddeere · Nov 2, 2011

(quoted from post at 10:45:58 11/02/11) Sure we got along "just fine" back in the 1970's with engines putting out a whopping 150HP, but it was a different time and place.

Fewer cars, better drivers, slower speeds, and nowhere near as many distractions. Someone was more likely to see a farm vehicle putzing along at 25MPH.

Nowadays, people just plow through them at 75MPH like they aren't even there as they yak away on their cell phone while surfing the web and eating a cheeseburger, high on prescription antidepressants and/or painkillers.

"That's their problem, not mine." I'm sure that's your attitude about it. I've heard it many times before.

But it is your problem... It's your equipment that gets destroyed. It's your income that gets destroyed. It's you that spends months fighting with lawyers and insurance adjusters to get compensated for all that loss.

That's if and only if you don't get hurt in the accident.

Hey, if you can afford to run out and buy a replacement truck and trailer while the lawyers slug it out, good for you. Most of us can't. We're working for a reason. Trying to get ahead, not necessarily succeeding.

So you need a diesel to travel loaded in the left lane faster than what the trailer tires and brakes are rated for?
Please explain why you have wrecks and problems with insurance.

sixtyninegmc · Nov 2, 2011

Okay, stupid question time. I`m sure this will get some good answers. If gas engines get more work done for less fuel and last as long as diesels, why has the trucking industry, ag industry, and construction industry completely abandoned gas engines (except for small engines, briggs, honda, ETC.)? Now, no letting emissions figure in because the swap was made long before that was an issue.

Granted, I always did want to put a merlin in an old Federal semi tractor.....

buickanddeere · Nov 2, 2011

(quoted from post at 21:25:44 11/02/11) Okay, stupid question time. I`m sure this will get some good answers. If gas engines get more work done for less fuel and last as long as diesels, why has the trucking industry, ag industry, and construction industry completely abandoned gas engines (except for small engines, briggs, honda, ETC.)? Now, no letting emissions figure in because the swap was made long before that was an issue.

Granted, I always did want to put a merlin in an old Federal semi tractor.....

Because some folk are stuck in 1974 and 2002. They think gas engines with points, leaded gasoline, stuck automatic carbs, stuck heat riser valves. Oil and plug changes every 2000-3000 miles. V.s a 2002 Cummins with a 5 speed, mechanical pump and just a turbo/intercooler.

These same folk can't tell the difference between a light duty and heavy duty application. For reasons unknown, Bubba with his pickup and a trailer once or twice a month. Bubba thinks he's a super star HD trucker.
News Flash. Your pickup on the highway is not the same duty as a marine application or remote power generation running 24/7.

Get over it. It's been a long time since CB radios were a fad or a movie made about truckers.

sixtyninegmc · Nov 2, 2011

(quoted from post at 20:02:29 11/02/11)

(quoted from post at 21:25:44 11/02/11) Okay, stupid question time. I`m sure this will get some good answers. If gas engines get more work done for less fuel and last as long as diesels, why has the trucking industry, ag industry, and construction industry completely abandoned gas engines (except for small engines, briggs, honda, ETC.)? Now, no letting emissions figure in because the swap was made long before that was an issue.

Granted, I always did want to put a merlin in an old Federal semi tractor.....

Click to expand...

Because some folk are stuck in 1974 and 2002. They think gas engines with points, leaded gasoline, stuck automatic carbs, stuck heat riser valves. Oil and plug changes every 2000-3000 miles. V.s a 2002 Cummins with a 5 speed, mechanical pump and just a turbo/intercooler.

These same folk can't tell the difference between a light duty and heavy duty application. For reasons unknown, Bubba with his pickup and a trailer once or twice a month. Bubba thinks he's a super star HD trucker.
News Flash. Your pickup on the highway is not the same duty as a marine application or remote power generation running 24/7.

Get over it. It's been a long time since CB radios were a fad or a movie made about truckers.

Did your mother neglect you in a diesel truck? You seem to have some deep seated resentment of the fact that you are on a forum populated by farmers who are more likely to work the dog snot out of there pickup than most. I don`t like guys who only haul groceries in there truck, either. I work mine hard on a regular basis and wish I had a cummins on a regular basis.

Besides, I am not talking about occasional use. YOU said a newer gas will do all the work and more of a diesel, I am just asking for examples of that in a WORKING application.

Spotted Horse · Nov 2, 2011

buickanddeere, your rants are fast approaching "outlandish and tiresome."

If you don't like diesel pickups,... simply don't buy one!

buickanddeere · Nov 3, 2011

It appears that some folk have never looked at the fuel curves on a Nebraska tractor test.
Has anybody noticed the fuel efficiency of a diesel running at 25% rated power vs. the fuel efficiency of the same diesel operating at 75% & 100% power?
Now look at the part and full load fuel curves of a gasser.
Anybody here that don't understand part and full power fuel consumption curves?
Diesels that are used in high duty cycle service such as marine propulsion, utility power generation , combines, field cultivation etc. That is HD service at near or full power continuous.
Bubba rolling down the highway at 55mph is using 45HP of his 397HP diesel. Just what exactly is the duty cycle that diesel operating under? Where on the fuel curves is it operating?
60ton of highway tractor running 500,000-750,000 miles routinely using 1/3 to 2/3 of it's rated power.
That is a different application from a 300-400HP pickup that rarely lasts 200,000 miles. And uses 10%-20% of it's rated power except for 5 to 20 second duration snorts.
Do the math.

ericlb · Nov 3, 2011

well i'll confuse the issue even though i should stay away from this one, without "looking at the numbers, tests ect" i pull the same trailers with 3 pickups, 1 is a 350 gasser, 1 is a 454 gasser and 1 is a first gen cummins dodge, back in the day all 3 engines were factory rated within 40 hp of each other, the cummins and the 350 are both rated at 180 hp, from real world experience the diesel will out torque the gasser up a hill loaded by a huge difference plus it will do it with 3 times the mpg of the gasser, the gassers advantage its easier to fix, parts are cheap and in every corner parts store, and both gassers are mounted in trucks with specific uses which are paid for, so i'll just keep all 3 lol , i guess if you need a pickup to work the diesel is the better choise, if the most work your pickup does is going to the box store on saturday morning, you need a gas rig

sixtyninegmc · Nov 3, 2011

(quoted from post at 04:39:44 11/03/11) It appears that some folk have never looked at the fuel curves on a Nebraska tractor test.
Has anybody noticed the fuel efficiency of a diesel running at 25% rated power vs. the fuel efficiency of the same diesel operating at 75% & 100% power?
Now look at the part and full load fuel curves of a gasser.
Anybody here that don't understand part and full power fuel consumption curves?
Diesels that are used in high duty cycle service such as marine propulsion, utility power generation , combines, field cultivation etc. That is HD service at near or full power continuous.
Bubba rolling down the highway at 55mph is using 45HP of his 397HP diesel. Just what exactly is the duty cycle that diesel operating under? Where on the fuel curves is it operating?
60ton of highway tractor running 500,000-750,000 miles routinely using 1/3 to 2/3 of it's rated power.
That is a different application from a 300-400HP pickup that rarely lasts 200,000 miles. And uses 10%-20% of it's rated power except for 5 to 20 second duration snorts.
Do the math.

Okay. SO you admit that a diesel is a better choice for someone who actually works there pickup at 1/3 to 2/3 or its rated power. Good. I`ll keep looking at getting a cummins. I`ll even put a CB in it and post on here so I can imagine the veins standing out in your neck as you try and give yourself a stroke worrying about other peoples choices :-D

Spotted Horse · Nov 3, 2011

(quoted from post at 11:05:47 11/03/11)

(quoted from post at 04:39:44 11/03/11) It appears that some folk have never looked at the fuel curves on a Nebraska tractor test.
Has anybody noticed the fuel efficiency of a diesel running at 25% rated power vs. the fuel efficiency of the same diesel operating at 75% & 100% power?
Now look at the part and full load fuel curves of a gasser.
Anybody here that don't understand part and full power fuel consumption curves?
Diesels that are used in high duty cycle service such as marine propulsion, utility power generation , combines, field cultivation etc. That is HD service at near or full power continuous.
Bubba rolling down the highway at 55mph is using 45HP of his 397HP diesel. Just what exactly is the duty cycle that diesel operating under? Where on the fuel curves is it operating?
60ton of highway tractor running 500,000-750,000 miles routinely using 1/3 to 2/3 of it's rated power.
That is a different application from a 300-400HP pickup that rarely lasts 200,000 miles. And uses 10%-20% of it's rated power except for 5 to 20 second duration snorts.
Do the math.

Click to expand...

Okay. SO you admit that a diesel is a better choice for someone who actually works there pickup at 1/3 to 2/3 or its rated power. Good. I`ll keep looking at getting a cummins. I`ll even put a CB in it and post on here so I can imagine the veins standing out in your neck as you try and give yourself a stroke worrying about other peoples choices :-D

... and, don't forget to change your name to "Bubba".

bison · Nov 3, 2011

All i have is diesel trucks( gmc's with 6.5),my wife drives one too.
Nobody likes them so i buy them cheap.
Wife put allready 93000 k on the last one(95) without a single isue,I paid 2 grand for it 3 years ago. Its got just shy of 400 k on it now and still going strong.
I have a 89 i use on the farm,it has a 6.2 in it,it has 730+ k on it.Still runs like a top,hardly ever a break down(couple sets of injectors and 2 inj pumps),only the body is now rusted out.

Hard to beat that..ain't it? :wink:

sixtyninegmc · Nov 3, 2011

(quoted from post at 12:24:49 11/03/11) ... and, don't forget to change your name to "Bubba".

10-4, good buddy, already my middle name....

RodinNS · Nov 3, 2011

One thing a lot of people forget is that most gas burners make their power at 4500+ rpm. Most people don't run them at 4500 even when they're pulling hard... thus they lose the entire top end of their power band. That 180 hp 'rated' engine may only make 140 hp in the band it's actively used. By comparison, the old CDC Cummins will make power at 2200 all day long; right where most people run them. Since it has a lot more torque and makes power in a usable range it gives the impression of having a lot more power.
I see the same thing with our old fire trucks. One has a DT466-180 and the other is a 427. The 427 actually has more power (somewhat) but is generally doggier on the road because most guys don't understand that to get the 427 to MOVE you hold it north of 3500 ALL of the time. If you do that it will far run away from the DT.

Rod

sixtyninegmc · Nov 3, 2011

(quoted from post at 20:34:09 11/03/11) One thing a lot of people forget is that most gas burners make their power at 4500+ rpm. Most people don't run them at 4500 even when they're pulling hard... thus they lose the entire top end of their power band. That 180 hp 'rated' engine may only make 140 hp in the band it's actively used. By comparison, the old CDC Cummins will make power at 2200 all day long; right where most people run them. Since it has a lot more torque and makes power in a usable range it gives the impression of having a lot more power.
I see the same thing with our old fire trucks. One has a DT466-180 and the other is a 427. The 427 actually has more power (somewhat) but is generally doggier on the road because most guys don't understand that to get the 427 to MOVE you hold it north of 3500 ALL of the time. If you do that it will far run away from the DT.

Rod

Which is why I do not prefer a gas engine for frequent hard use, because I prefer running an engine at lower RPM for longevity. I have not seen long lives out of gas industrial engines governed at 3600-4200 RPM.

Josh

buickanddeere · Nov 3, 2011

(quoted from post at 15:48:12 11/03/11) All i have is diesel trucks( gmc's with 6.5),my wife drives one too.
Nobody likes them so i buy them cheap.
Wife put allready 93000 k on the last one(95) without a single isue,I paid 2 grand for it 3 years ago. Its got just shy of 400 k on it now and still going strong.
I have a 89 i use on the farm,it has a 6.2 in it,it has 730+ k on it.Still runs like a top,hardly ever a break down(couple sets of injectors and 2 inj pumps),only the body is now rusted out.

Hard to beat that..ain't it? :wink:

With the use of sodium Chloride salt in the winter and calcium chloride in the summer for dust control. The place to look for vehicles older than 15 years is in the scrap yard. 10yr old vehicles have holes rusted through the body around here. Any fasteners are corroded tight.
Stuck with late model EPA and CAFE approved vehicles and equipment around here.

bison · Nov 4, 2011

(quoted from post at 21:37:36 11/03/11)

(quoted from post at 15:48:12 11/03/11) All i have is diesel trucks( gmc's with 6.5),my wife drives one too.
Nobody likes them so i buy them cheap.
Wife put allready 93000 k on the last one(95) without a single isue,I paid 2 grand for it 3 years ago. Its got just shy of 400 k on it now and still going strong.
I have a 89 i use on the farm,it has a 6.2 in it,it has 730+ k on it.Still runs like a top,hardly ever a break down(couple sets of injectors and 2 inj pumps),only the body is now rusted out.

Hard to beat that..ain't it? :wink:

Click to expand...

[b:acf53ed3dc]With the use of sodium Chloride salt in the winter and calcium chloride in the summer for dust control[/b:acf53ed3dc]. The place to look for vehicles older than 15 years is in the scrap yard. 10yr old vehicles have holes rusted through the body around here. Any fasteners are corroded tight.
Stuck with late model EPA and CAFE approved vehicles and equipment around here.

t ain't that bad up here

buickanddeere · Nov 4, 2011

(quoted from post at 16:39:05 11/04/11)

(quoted from post at 21:37:36 11/03/11)

(quoted from post at 15:48:12 11/03/11) All i have is diesel trucks( gmc's with 6.5),my wife drives one too.
Nobody likes them so i buy them cheap.
Wife put allready 93000 k on the last one(95) without a single isue,I paid 2 grand for it 3 years ago. Its got just shy of 400 k on it now and still going strong.
I have a 89 i use on the farm,it has a 6.2 in it,it has 730+ k on it.Still runs like a top,hardly ever a break down(couple sets of injectors and 2 inj pumps),only the body is now rusted out.

Hard to beat that..ain't it? :wink:

Click to expand...

[b:17e92dd83d]With the use of sodium Chloride salt in the winter and calcium chloride in the summer for dust control[/b:17e92dd83d]. The place to look for vehicles older than 15 years is in the scrap yard. 10yr old vehicles have holes rusted through the body around here. Any fasteners are corroded tight.
Stuck with late model EPA and CAFE approved vehicles and equipment around here.

Click to expand...

t ain't that bad up here

How would somebody from Alberta where a plough can be parked outside for weeks without rusting. Know anything about Southern Ontario where a plough will turn orange overnight with rust.
We import vehicle sheet metal from Alberta for a reason.
There are so many immigrants here from Countries that never see snow. The government turns the roads white with salt so they don't get sued.

Stuart · Nov 4, 2011

Yeah no kidding. He thinks what works on paper works in the real world.

bison · Nov 4, 2011

(quoted from post at 15:33:46 11/04/11)

(quoted from post at 16:39:05 11/04/11)

(quoted from post at 21:37:36 11/03/11)

(quoted from post at 15:48:12 11/03/11) All i have is diesel trucks( gmc's with 6.5),my wife drives one too.
Nobody likes them so i buy them cheap.
Wife put allready 93000 k on the last one(95) without a single isue,I paid 2 grand for it 3 years ago. Its got just shy of 400 k on it now and still going strong.
I have a 89 i use on the farm,it has a 6.2 in it,it has 730+ k on it.Still runs like a top,hardly ever a break down(couple sets of injectors and 2 inj pumps),only the body is now rusted out.

Hard to beat that..ain't it? :wink:

Click to expand...

[b:8802d554fe]With the use of sodium Chloride salt in the winter and calcium chloride in the summer for dust control[/b:8802d554fe]. The place to look for vehicles older than 15 years is in the scrap yard. 10yr old vehicles have holes rusted through the body around here. Any fasteners are corroded tight.
Stuck with late model EPA and CAFE approved vehicles and equipment around here.

Click to expand...

t ain't that bad up here

Click to expand...

How would somebody from Alberta where a plough can be parked outside for weeks without rusting. Know anything about Southern Ontario where a plough will turn orange overnight with rust.
We import vehicle sheet metal from Alberta for a reason.
There are so many immigrants here from Countries that never see snow. The government turns the roads white with salt so they don't get sued.

happened to live in the "golden horse shoe" in 80 and part of 81 (Paris and Waterton) so i know what your weather is like in summer and winter.You can have it

There was a reason i departed for Alberta :wink:

I even lived trough a big Tornado in 79 when i was there on vacation on a friends farm :shock:

buickanddeere · Nov 5, 2011

[/quote]

I prefer winters in this area as 20-25F is the norm, rather than the sub zero temps of northern Ontario and the Prairies.
Seems to be a lot of folk who do move west and only return to visit. Getting away from Ontario's abundant government would be reason enough on it's own.
This past June within a week of each other. A pair of F0 tornadoes passed four and five blocks away. Then Goderich which is 40 miles south was clobbered with a F3 on August 21st.
Woodstock in 79, Arther and Barrie in 85 with three different F4's.
The lakes do store a lot of solar energy then dump it down wind.

buickanddeere · Nov 5, 2011

(quoted from post at 19:37:07 11/04/11) Yeah no kidding. He thinks what works on paper works in the real world.

Was the Golden gate Bridge built via "by guess and by golly" ? Or did somebody use a slide rule to calculate stress and choose the proper alloys?
As for rigid being strong? How rigid is the CN Tower, Sear's Tower, Empire State Building etc?
There are so many different grades of steel and welding rod out there. A wrong choice and even the best design and fabrication will fail.
Very few Bubba welders out there can make a certified quality weld.
A truly good welder is hard to find. It's both an art and science which requires much experience.
Just about anybody can spatter together something with a Dc welder and 7018.However I would not even trust myself with a rops fabrication.

saving money with diesel pickups

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

New User

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member