O/T Rotary Engine........

TOKYO (AP) -- Mazda will stop making cars with its signature rotary engines after a 45-year production run that included powering the first and only Japanese car to win the 24-hour Le Mans endurance race.

Poor sales and the high costs of meeting modern emissions standards have made rotary engines uneconomical to produce.

Mazda Motor Corp. said Friday that the latest edition of the Mazda RX-8 will go on sale Nov. 24, targeting sales of 1,000 vehicles, but will end production in June 2012.

The Japanese automaker, based in Hiroshima, introduced its first rotary engine car in 1967 and is the only automaker in the world that makes rotary engine vehicles. Such engines have fewer moving parts and are quieter than comparable piston engines but are more expensive to manufacture and consume more fuel.

The RX-8 is the only model in Mazda's lineup with the rotary engine.

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The only experience I had with one, was about 1987 my niece had an '83 RX-7. She got a job in California and wanted her car out there, but didn't want to drive it out herself. So, she flew out, and I drove her car out and flew back.

Now the fun part. She was staying with her brother in Chino, and she had to get me to the Ontario airport. I'm 6'2", Kimberly is 6', and her brother, Tim, is 6'5". Kim drove, I sat in the passenger seat with the seat all the way forward and my knees scrunched against the dash, we put my luggage under the hatchback, Tim crawled in the hatch and wrapped himself around my luggage, and Kim slammed the lid on him. All of us in that little RX-7, and we lit out for the airport.

We made it, but we got more than a few strange looks along the way.

Goose, Watch what will happen, One of the US car manufacturing Co's will try to make it work here! Not sure if it can be done ,But someone will try! Jim in N.M.

Gm tried , failed , Vette option . Never made it to production

also, evinrude had the rotary engine in its snowmobiles in the 1970's . they did not last.

The design of the Walkla (sp) is very sound but due to the fact the seals which in a piston type engine are very hard to keep in them they have some problems. The engine it self was designed by a guy many many years before Mazda started making them and his problem was also the seals. Did a paper on the engine back when I was in High school

There a many unique designs being considered...!

One that looks good is this..
The new Rotary engine looks good...one set of cylinders to compress and one row for combustion..
Many fewer parts and not nearly to reciprocating mass..

Ron..

Old, I THINK you mean Wankel.
Wankel Engine in motion

Artic Cat tried it too with the same results.

Yep but as I said (sp) so yep could not remember how to spell it but then it has been a few decades since I was in high school LOL

(quoted from post at 14:37:46 10/10/11) Artic Cat tried it too with the same results.

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nvented by German, Felix Wankel in 1929 and produced by many companies in many sizes from chain saws to 1100 hp sizes and in many types of vehicles, motorcycles, aircraft, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine

I thought they quit making them years ago.

I drove an RX3 or 4 "back in the day"- what everyone failed to mention below is that it was a real rocket- effortless to wind it up to 8 or 9 thousand RPMs, and it got there real fast!

Wankel rotaries should be compared to 2 stroke engines and turbines, not just 4 strokes. Mazda was one Japanese outfit that built them for their purposes, others made jetskis and snowmobile engines, small aircraft engines. Norton in England has their motorcycle running around- often with police officers on them and NSU had their cars. Curtis-Wright bought early license for rotaries in US "Transportation" market while GMhad purchased license later for Brazillian market. The GM publicity about selling rotary engined cars in US in original Vega bodies got a letter from the Curtis -Wright lawyers saying OK, but it will cost you a good chunk of cash for every one you sell since we bought a license earlier for this market area and several laws and case laws regarding license and patents means we"ll win if we have to take you to court- this letter will also cost you the legal notice fee, pleas pay in 10 days or court service will start in 12 days with seizure of all product in dispute. GM paid for lettter and squeezed V6 in Buick body shell-had to buy tooling previously sold to Kaiser back from AMC, Pontiac got old Iron Duke in their shell and vega got a hood bulge for their short life cylinder engine. Ford has done some research in partnership with old Curtiss licensee and Mazda, some compresor research has gotten some return. Rotax and Norton motorcycle engines were originally classed with 2 stroke engines and used a 2 stroke fuel/oil mix for extended tip seal life, Kaw jet skis also used outboard mix until EPA got real picky. Fuel economy down for EPA as quickest way to meet standards was afterburner before cat in cars. Original Wankel idea was afterburner feeding extra turbine blade for airplane engine similar to early Coanda hibred engine or the current marine combination diesel engines with coupled low pressure turbine. Works- but the cost of compressor and turbine goes up higher than market competion for most applications. Mazda had a good run, won a few races and got some R&D knowledge, got some good advertising to help sell some other models. RN

I think Bill (Wis) flew a rotary-engined airplane during the big war.......... WWI; the crankshaft didn't move, but most everything else did.

i was born in pomona,raised in chino.dad farmed there for 50 years.used to be a nice place..now in new mexico

My best man had one of those cars, A Mazda Rx-7. 13b rotary engine. A 2700 pound car that got a crappy 20mpg, sporty and nice, he got his with 40,000 miles on it. He sold it for $2500 after he put 120,000 miles on it.

I"m afraid I inhaled a little too much castor oil in that one. I"ve been sh-ting everone ever since.

The first car with a Wankel was an NSU, back in early '60s. NSU also made piston engined cars and motorcycles. The piston engined cars had a transverse mounted engine and front wheel drive; years before it was common here.
John Deere also bought rights to Wankel back then.

Hey Bill..........good to see you posting; I axed about you a few weeks ago, since I hadn't seen your name in a while...........

I always wondered why GM "had" to buy the rights back to the Dauntless (eventually the 3800 V6 seen in everything from the Gran National Regal to the Park Avenue).

Oldest son bought one in 1967, still has it with about 30000 miles on it. Nobody around Northeast Ohio can make it run right. Benn all over.

Guy I worked for has a Fiat 850 spyder that had an RX-4 motor in it. Ran like a stripped ape when it ran.Keeping it cool in that body was the biggest problem. That and getting her traction!

Bad points on the rotory.
Sucked down fuel faster than a Cobra
High RPMs not good.
Sucked in seals faster than you could replace them.
Ate spark plugs by the box.
Good Idea bad results.

Worst engine I ever worked on.

Drove one back in 1972; had a friend who sold them. Not much pickup but just kept winding up. I stepped off the gas pedal a few miles above the legal speed limit.

(quoted from post at 14:49:31 10/10/11) I always wondered why GM "had" to buy the rights back to the Dauntless (eventually the 3800 V6 seen in everything from the Gran National Regal to the Park Avenue).

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Because GM was short of engines. We had Arv Mueller, Pres of the powertrain division, tell us that they could have sold another 200K cars the previous year, only that they couldn't sell gliders. The v6 that became the 3800 was developed by GM in the early 60's, late 50's. Didn't sell well, folks wanted big v8s, sold to AMC. Then GM needed a v6, bought it back, including the tooling. So born in Flint, grew up in Toledo, back to Flint. Pretty unique, and a darned good engine.

Taxing my memory a bit here but I'm sure I read in a news article - in the 70s - that the Russkies had just signed a contract with Mazda/Wankel to provide about 5000 rotary engines for whatever tank they were producing back then.

If the Rotary had the R&D money spent on it (or a small per centage) as piston engine the story may be different.

Had a 1983 RX-7..other than a right wheel bearing I never had an issue- motor or otherwise till it hit 192K miles and the seals blew. So So mileage and pretty good accelaration. Damn I had fun in that Mazda. Wish I had one today.

I think those were RADIAL engines not Rotary.

Nope.......look it up; two different animals.

Most people didn't know how to drive the engine which lead to a short life. It's kinda like the air cooled VW engines....gotta have some RPM's on em to make em last! The thing is the rotary engine is economical if you take into consideration the HP produced, Can't judge em by engine size. You just don't cruise down the road at 1600 RPM's.


Rick

Hi! Thanks for asking. I was so busy that I just hadn't had time to stop in here. Yesterday, for whatever reason, I sat down and came in here and what to my wondering eyes should appear was a post from "thurlow". You are quite correct. The first "rotary" engines were the fixed crankshaft, spinning engine type. My favorite was the "Gnome". About 80 HP.

I was working for a former Kaiser Jeep dealer about the time AMC sold back the tooling, etc. Jeep division property but bookkeepers at AMC credited sale price to AMC car division so it showed a profit for first time in 10 years or so. Old Kaiser dealers that didn't take on cars got treated different than AMC car dealers that added Jeep. Warrantee claims way different- 1/2 rate for mech, slow delivery of warrantee orders- think the leaky Motorcraft carbs and fires on the road. Alternator warantee another on the Motorolas and Delcos- full replacement OKd for AMC dealers but X
Kaiser got only repair of diodes- this after replacement as advised by manufacturers reps. The other V6 tool set was down under in Australia with Holden- GM sent instructions for shipping and got a 'NO' response from the Holden management that had asked their government Ministry of Transport or whoever for advice on sending engine needed for government contracts back to US- civilian sales of V6 were high also and 2 weeks from order before engine available in sedans used by Police and Utes used all over common. Jeep division for various makers has usually made profit. RN