Backlash already beginning

I know this will probably poof because of the subject but I just wanted to get out the news to at least a few people that the backlash from our illustrious "leader's" Health Care Bill is already hitting the masses.

Wife had worked for First Union/Wachovia for nearly 13 years until it was takn over by Wells Fargo about two years back. Both First Union and later Wachovia had EXCELLENT medical insurance, dental insurancem vision insurance, etc, etc. It was good to the point that when she had complications with her pregnancy that resulted in a 3 month premature birth, and a hospital bill well in excess of $10,000, her out of pocket was the deductable of something like $300.

When Wells Fargo took over two years ago their plan wasn't quite as good when it came to the deductables and the out of pocket for unscheduled Dr visits, etc. Still what they did offer were free yearly wellness exams/physicals, free yearly vision exams, and free yearly dental cleanings.

She came home yesterday with the news that they were all notified that their insurance was changing next year due to the new Healthcare Reform BS. They don't have all the details yet but the gist of the situation was that the new law was going to cause the cost of the current plan for W/F to increase pretty significantly. As a result the new 'health care plan' would be, for want of a better explination, a 'savings plan'. Basically their counselors will look at what you spen total in Dr visits over the past few years and then you pay into the plan at a rate that equals the total they estimate you'll need each year. When you actually go to the Dr and that total amount gets spent then your own your own.

In other words they will have a healthcare 'Plan'/'insurance', just as the law says they are supposed to but in realtity there is no real 'insurance', and it seams the plan is that you take care of yourself, with your own money, but give it to them first to make sure it's there when you need it.

Wife said they are supposed to be giving them more info on the whole mess before too long but from what they have been told so far what I said above pretty much sums up the whole situation. Like I said they were told point blank that the change is due to the new law and all the associated costs, etc related to it that would be placed on the employeers. The cost to employeers going through the roof and said employeers dropping their group coverage for their employees and forcing them to look at other options like Blue Cross, for individual insurance at a higher cost, is one of the things that the people opposed to the whole scheme said would happen......Guess what, it's already starting.

That's interesting, however, every thing is changing and will change, so just expect it to change not to fill your pockets,
just get use to the changes or it will change you.

"and it seams the plan is that you take care of yourself, with your own money,"

That would suit me just fine, IF that is a far as it went, BUT, what is really going on here is that tax paying folks are going to see less of their $ back in order to pay the med costs of 30 million not currently covered.

Surprising how some people (even some smart people) blame a program that is not even in effect yet for all the ills in the health care world. The problem is that people making $25K a year can run up $10K/day in health care cost..easily. Look at all the strip malls, used to be stores... now it is Pain Clinics and Dialysis Clinics and Physical Therapy facilities. The medical industry has gone wild, designing new and exotic procedures and tests. Somebody has to pay....who?

The biggest reason that GM and Chrysler when into bankruptcy was the sky rocketing health care costs for their retirees. FACT! They tried eveything but could not stop the run away health care costs. Citiy and state governments are next to falter.

We have a medical industry complex that is going to bankrupt this country unless we put controls and constraints upon them.

This is a tractor forum. If the tractor repair shop insisted on doing a $3000 test to find the source of a transmission leak on your $2000 tractor you would say "no way".

But if a Dr. wants to do a $5000 test on a terminally ill 86 year old woman, with stage 4 lung cancer and just weeks to live, we shut up and dump the cost on the government ( just happened to my mother). Meanwhile the medical industry gets wealthy and the hospital administrators make $800,000/year, and the doctors all drive MB.

The health care cost problem in this country started 20 years ago and neither party has the balls to really tackle the greed and avarice of the healthcare industry.

Please quit being such a sheep to the talk show hosts.

(quoted from post at 09:54:03 09/02/11) Surprising how some people (even some smart people) blame a program that is not even in effect yet for all the ills in the health care world. The problem is that people making $25K a year can run up $10K/day in health care cost..easily. Look at all the strip malls, used to be stores... now it is Pain Clinics and Dialysis Clinics and Physical Therapy facilities. The medical industry has gone wild, designing new and exotic procedures and tests. Somebody has to pay....who?

The biggest reason that GM and Chrysler when into bankruptcy was the sky rocketing health care costs for their retirees. FACT! They tried eveything but could not stop the run away health care costs. Citiy and state governments are next to falter.

We have a medical industry complex that is going to bankrupt this country unless we put controls and constraints upon them.

This is a tractor forum. If the tractor repair shop insisted on doing a $3000 test to find the source of a transmission leak on your $2000 tractor you would say "no way".

But if a Dr. wants to do a $5000 test on a terminally ill 86 year old woman, with stage 4 lung cancer and just weeks to live, we shut up and dump the cost on the government ( just happened to my mother). Meanwhile the medical industry gets wealthy and the hospital administrators make $800,000/year, and the doctors all drive MB.

The health care cost problem in this country started 20 years ago and neither party has the balls to really tackle the greed and avarice of the healthcare industry.

Please quit being such a sheep to the talk show hosts.

Click to expand...

While I think you are pretty close to being dead on you forgot that because of the new program making companies change or drop health bennies because it's just too expensive. Also you forgot to mention the greedy people who sue over anything. Know a guy who tore his rotator cup riding bulls. Then sued the doc for 85K cause he had a scar after it was fixed! Who paid that? Darn sure wasn't the doc.....was his insurance....at 85K it would cost more to fight it than pay. LOL I brag about my scars and how I earned em except for one that was a stupid mistake on my part......what man sues over a scar?????

Just MHO!

Rick

My employer went to a HSA...health savings account 3 years ago. Sounds like this is what is going on. $4500 deductable with premimums still being deducted from my pay. This was way before any health care reform.....

Of course, I can contribute to the HSA pre tax...whoopee...thanks

Like it or hate it, seems to be a good chance its gonna be struck down on Constitutional grounds anyway. The mandate forcing people to buy something just went too far. Even if not, Socilaized big governemnt medicine takeover (aka external_linkcare) is doomed to failure eventually. This is a country of freedom and choice NOT big brother making our private health care decisions.

Take care n keep healthy cuz big brother isnt gonna be there esp when you get older and bureaucrats decice if your worth spending recources on any longer YIKES

John T

What took them so long ? My coverage dropped and my price went up the first of the year. Pretty much everyone had a premium increase so as to help cover all the new uninsured by this new law.

Several years ago at my old employer we had an insurance consultant that visited. Everyone was herded into an HMO basically.
Anyway.....To make a long story a little shorter, I asked the guy what health insurance will become in 15 or so years. He said that what will likely occur is that most if not everyone will have a catastrophic health care insurance plan, like if you have to have an appendectomy, or you break your leg or you get cancer. I had a short term plan like this many years ago. But....employers will only be able to afford this type of plan. And if you get a head cold or poison ivy and need medication then you will pay for it yourself. This will be the future of your health care due to all the lawyers, and people that get sick every month and the 400 pound loser that eats Burger King everyday and is a walking heart attack.

I can't say I'm well informed on the details of most political and issues like these, which are a serious problem today. I can though appreciate your point and would expand further to say, I can recognize some of the outlandish methods practiced in the medical world, like you mentioned. I'm going off track from Waynes post here as well.

One of the things I see that I think is contributing to the health problems is the way people live. There are so many more people now, with the immigration, population ever increasing, that do not take care of themselves. They have no regard for choosing a healthy diet, excercise. I went to the doctors office the other day, and I see the same in public all the time just the same, people are obese, they smoke cigarettes, consume alcohol in excess, and just don't eat properly.

Doctors today, have a vast selection of drugs to prescribe, supporting a huge pharmaceutical industry, supplying way overpriced drugs to people, it seems they often do things like, "well here just take these, add some of those and that will help" meanwhile your liver is taking on too many chemicals, this almost killed my long time farmer friend, a good doctor came in and told him, his wife in front of me while visiting him in the hospital that what he was on is ridiculous, well that idiot who prescribed these things contributed to at least 12 hospital stays and numerous procedures, the man went through hell and it cost probably six figures. He is finally doing much better, some of these doctors are no prize today.

Look at the carriage next to you, when grocery shopping, you will see what I am talking about. We have inner city people around here, they all seem to fit into a stereotype, just by looks, (yes its wrong and I have no right to judge, I use it as an example only because it is so prevalent and easily recognized).

Obesity is common, maybe the norm, cigarettes, alcohol, food that is not fit for swine in my opinion, they're caught in a bad groove, lack of education, many don't have decent jobs, can't afford to do better, it seems like s snowball effect, others may not even care or don't really know how important it is to take care of yourself. Personal hygiene is atrocious with some, people reek of filth, yet we live in modern times.

This is what I see, not judge. I'm no better than anyone else to be quite frank, but I absolutely know how wrong it is to abuse your body like so many do. Sheesh, many are still quite young, and could be improving themselves, but they are not. The health problems they have are no doubt feeding this problem. Kids are growing up without the benefit of knowing that video games and junk food is a poor choice, drugs, alcohol abuse does not help them or adults, on and on and on...... fast forward to the doctors office the other day, a vascular specialist, there was a huge gelatinous local radio/television newsman who had to be 400lbs, and sounded like he was going to keel over in the waiting area, an educated, well spoken man, been on the air for years, I know there are other problems that may not be life choices, but overall, we can't ignore people caught in this lifestyle, its not doing them any good, nor the rising cost of health care. You almost wish you could help them somehow, people did not live like this years ago, it was just common sense that you need to take care of yourself, as well as there was much more physical activity be it your job or chores at home, look at people in old photos, you don't see obesity. People were not lazy and victims of their own devices. People often times need leadership, someone to lean on and someone to motivate them, help them, some are just evil, but how in the heck can we stop this aspect of poor health by choice without taking measures to help them, after all it starts by making wise decisions in the first place.

I agree with what you say but I also believe that when a person is 80 years old and is bedridden for the last 2 months of their life the plug should be pulled and save $200,000.
I know that sounds cold but....its too expensive and besides what was done in the old days before insurance and life support? You just plain died.

Basic economic fact, whether it is in health care of anything else: "Expenses automatically rise to any guaranteed level of income". Once someone beside you is paying the bill, expenses will rise. If the government says we will pay you "X" for something then it's a cinch the expense will magically be "X" or "X +10%" but "we will settle for X". Until the payer is the same as the recipient of the service, expenses will keep rising. Mike

Your private insurance costs is determined by STATE GOVERNMENTS and in some cases where you live in the state. Can't blame the Feds for this one. Can't call it a BACKLASS. Our health insurance costs have run unchecked. People want every test ran to live a few days longer.

When my 88 year old mom had cancer, she told the Dr's no more tests. There is a day to be born and a day to die. I want to go home and die. The Dr's had a hard time with that decision.

When people have to pay something for each test ran by the DR's, the cost of health insurance will come down.

Billy the problem there is I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! And if I wish to shorten my LIFE, in the pursuit of HAPPINESS by taking my LIBERTIES of eating how much of what I want while drinking and smoking....it's my RIGHTS! Thats what makes us Americans! You don't have the right to tell me I'm wrong!!!! You are going to take that line what are you doing here with people who burn gas and love the smell of diesel smoke? If I offend you with my big butt and large belly you can look the other way, but if I have to meet your standards I suffer? Whts up with that? But you also have the right to the way you think. I spent 22 years of my life making sure your rights were protected even if I didn't agree with your view point. BTW, I'm 56, 6'5" about 240. I don't eat anything with soy products cause they are bad for you and raise my own meat so I'm not getting feed lot food. Grow our own garden and put up veggies.....and work more than I should with service connected disabilities. But you can eat what the so called body NAZIs think you eat should and go to the gym all you want and call names.....its your right!

Rick

MIL is living in a nursing home for the last 6 years. The Government takes her SS check and covers all her expenses. Now here is the catch, she still has a home which she rents out and recieves payment every month. The Government takes that money from that also since it is considered income but she is allowed to keep the home which will be divided in the estate some day. It doesn't seem right to me that the taxpayer should cover her expenses when she has this home worth $125,000 but that is the law.

It doesnt seem right that total strangers care for an elderly parent. Remember the Waltons TV show, the whole family in one house. I honestly dont know if I could have my mom or dad in a nursing home rotting away. As long as they were not bed ridden then I would feel morally obligated to take care of them. Dont feel bad about your MILs home, sell it after the funeral, you and your wife deserve an inheritance. I have instructed my wife to make sure her mothers house is sold after the funeral. MIL is on Oxygen and almost died 3 years ago.

You understand thats how health care insurance works right? The group pays in based on how much the members costs were plus the profits paid out to shareholders.

Good post, Billy.

If guvment would butt out of the free market process and get the barriers to competition out of the way prices would respond to the laws of supply and demand the way they should. The first thing that would bring down prices is to allow insurance companies to compete for our business across state lines.

Why do you feel that it is the obligation of other people to pay the cost of your mother in laws final days so you can have an inheritance? I know,some of the farm magazines have articles telling how to do this. Isn't that what we used to call stealing. Joe

health insurance for farmers or the self employed can be hugh expense. I paid for my own for 35 years and had to drop it and go onto my wifes plan. We saved $5000 a year by doing that and its the same plan.

you would think farmers could catch a break now and then since we feed everyone else but it seems like we get the short end of the stick

You got the best medical coverage money could buy, they say millions were streaming into DC through the whole medical debate.
Since the new medical bill was slated to start in stages and most haven't started yet I would think it's your own state government, medical provider, and health insurance that's getting in a last big scr@win in.

She smoked for 45 fooking years! She did it to herself.
I dont want her in a nursing home though. The question came up 3 years ago, MIL asked my wife if she could move into our home. Wife said ummm.....well....ummm....nope. I told my wife that if her mother was terminal then she could live with us in her final days I couldnt let her rot away in a hospice care place. MIL is not terminal, only on lots of different meds and on Oxygen and lives in her own home. MIL has insurance, she is 63 I think. Not on Medicare yet I dont think.

govt regulation and malpractice are two of the biggest factors of cost. whole dept's are in hospitals just to ensure the rules are being followed. and lawsuits such as class actions are making costs skyrocket. you are paying for everyone else that couldn't pay before you (think illegals and medicaid patients)

I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody.
Barack external_link

freedom. thanks oldtanker---nazis had state sponsored physical fitness...is that where billy wants us to go?

Oldtanker..in theory I agree with you. You should be able to live your life as you see fit and suffer the consequences. Problem is society won't let that happen and it is unlikely we will go back to the old ways.

A cruel but graphic example are the guys that want to ride a motorcycle without a helmet. In my opinion they should be allowed to ride anyway they want so long as they live with the results.
But for all the bikers macho bluster and bravado, let one smack a bridge at 90 miles an hour and the EMS guys will airlift them to the hospital, we will pay the bills for treatment, then when they have turned themselves into a semi-comatose druelling widget, we will pay nursing home care for them for years, provide welfare and free educations to the children( it wasn't their fault that Daddy was an idiot). And on and on.

Until we are willing to let that guy lay there and die in the ditch due to his own recklessness, all the macho man talk is just that...talk.

I do not think there is any chance that society will reduce our determination to save everryones life at any cost.

Rick, I think everyone knows my demeanor here, after 10 years or so, I don't or I refrain from arguing with anyone as best I can, I find it disrespectful to the forum and others here, nor do I disagree on much, if I offend anyone on this though, I don't actually care so much to argue it, but this is a serious problem today, people could do a lot better and live a higher quality of life than they do, if they chose not to, who really cares, well except about the increases in costs and availability of health care, is that fair to those who do the extra work and make an attempt to do things to stay healthy? Something is going to get everyone of us, no need to worry about that, but why push the envelope ?

You are absolutely right and people do as they wish, it is their right, don't think for a minute anyone is above or better than anyone else, I do not, its an observation and a sad one at that. A wise person takes care of themselves, that is my point, people are going to do as they wish, and have the right to do so. My point is just an observation, its sad to see people just take no regard to their own well being. I don't need to be reminded of your service, or anyone elses none the same, but by the way, thank you and all that do now and have ! I did 4 years of the same mind you, most of my family has too starting in WWI shortly after arriving here, all the way through WWII, Korea and Vietnam. We don't brag about our service and the thankfulness apparently felt owed by others who did not as you see it, it has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I think you have the wrong impression of me, nor do I really care to explain myself to someone who thinks I owe them something because they served this country just like you, myself and how many others who say or ask nothing for having done so. Our rights are protected today and were then, all should be thankful for what we have and feel free, to live in peace as they desire, but please have some respect for yourself no matter how you do it.

I think we should all be grateful to those were able to serve or gladly would have, honor those who gave all .... end of subject.

I do the same as you, I've raised vegetables since my grandad showed me how to plant, I have raised and butchered animals in the past, I don't care for the yuppy, soy life myself, (whatever that is) preference is self sustenance where ever possible. This was a rural area, I've lived here long enough to see that change, they can, I don't, you will smell my manure, observe my obesity if that were the case, be appalled etc., eat my dust, its my right being ag zoned and as a citizen. I busted my @ss since I was a kid, and like you, I can't do as much as I did then, I take more time to rest when needed, per doctors orders, sadly enough I'm younger than you, and the problems have already started, this is what happens with hard labor intense work in addition to building a career, it takes its toll. That and not taking care of yourself, which I highly suggest. Feeding from the trough of mass produced, highly processed foods, and so many other things we know is just bad for us, we have plenty of alternatives, yet so many just don't care, have at it, drink like a fish, smoke like a feign, don't exercise, I knew a guy like that, he was not much older than you now, lost both his feet, legs to diabetes, kidneys too, myself and another had to lift him out of bed into gurney, into med transportation and take him to dialysis on a regular basis, he lived his final years in a rotten place that was foul with odors, so many others like him and rarely got visits from his family, he lived the good life, no regard for his health, had over 8 hundred series fords in his time, all he had left was a picture and a model on a stand. Those were his last years, misery on top of misery.

The overall point is take care of yourself as best you can, if everyone paid a little more respect to themselves, they would be happier, healthier and wiser and it would help our health care system or providers, its not the cure all by any means.


Now, guess what, time for some vension dogs and some cold beer LOL been a long hot sweaty day if you were my neighbor I would insist we settle this over same, what say you pal LOL ???

You take care now buddy !

PS - I just knew some one was going to get riled about this post, had to be you didn't it LOL !!!!

We're getting the "Hope & Change" the majority of the voters wanted a few years ago.

When our president promised transparency, and then rushed his socialized medicine bill through so fast that people didn't have time to read it or understand it, that was a huge red flag that the plan would be good for the federal government and the nnalert party, but not good for the people.

I figured this would get weighed in on from that angle, lest we not forget our rights. Thanks Rick, can't agree more on that.

I take the stand of taking care of ones self and respecting ones self, relative to this conversation, and its impact on the health system, aside from the main point of this post, I have digressed on the subject to make a point that so many people just don't care.

I have a relative, who was a pilot in WWII, he survived, he does not speak of those experiences, though I've asked him what he flew, fighters and B29's, had a chance to bring it up because a B17 flew over the farm one day. I was not sure if it was ok to ask but did anyway, I have a lot of respect for him for many reasons and one is the way he lives. This man has always taken care of himself, he's about to turn 90, and is very healthy, might be genes might be respect for himself, he can still ride horses, drives daily and is as agile as most of us, though he's slowed down, he lives a quality life and its great to speak with him, he too likes mechanical things, but more so cars, classics and older ones, he told me how frequent rebuilds were and valve jobs were back in the 30's etc. He's pretty good on a tractor too ! He drinks beer still, but if you have supper with him, you know he respects himself and does what he can in a sensible way. Probably genes but he sure has done well in life, so many others could help themselves do the same.

Don't talk to me about Health Ins friend of mine had a Brother-nlaw fall from a house while working on gutters. Got busted up prety bad Broken ribs fractured arms he went to Hospital they just gave him some pain killers and sent him home "He didn't have Insurance. he died two weeks later. when my wife broke her ancle the bone doctor had to have the money up front before he would on her and we had Insurance.

Couple things wrong with what you say, the Rpugs sat on their hands through the whole thing and fought any change so the poor health industry didn"t loose any money. And the other thing is the demos would just be screewnin themselves too. The Repugs have creewed everything up so bad that their own partydoesn"t even want them.

You are talking about a Health Savings Account. They have been around for years. external_linkCare is a couple years away yet. Bottom line, Wells Fargo is screwing you, not the government.

Billy in NY and Edd in KY, you both feel the same way I do on many of the points you make. Thank you for your observations, thoughts (which show you have been working at this) and expressing them here. If bikers need to ride without a helmet, to feel good about themselves, let them; but require that they carry a $10 million personal injury policy to cover their care when they get scrambled. I know a biker who was hit by a car in 1990, car at fault, liability insurance paid the limit of $300,000. Biker was 24 at the time of crash, he wears diapers and requires 24-7 care. Dollar estimates for care until he passes range up to $10 million. Billy, I think the First Lady has taken some great first steps with our youth especially, to address concerns you have.

I don't know much about this health care jazz but you mentioned a couple things that tick me off. ..."dump the cost on the government"... You talk like they're some kind of benevolent entity that wipes our noses for us. Those S.O.B.s don't have any money unless they take it from us first. The comment on GM lacks an important point: Their yearly pension payments were in the Billions. In the fifties, GM was as big or bigger than International Harvester, and you just can't pay people who don't work there anymore these huge salaries, and stay in business very long. And stop being such a moderate. Don't say "talk show hosts" when you really mean Rush Limbaugh. Here's another one for you. Sean, Sarah, guns, oil, babies, Freedom,Tea Party, Constitution, Hillsdale College, Heritage Foundation... What have you got against "the medical industry gone wild"? What's wrong with medical technology that reduces hospital stays from one week to a day, or an operation you close with a band-aid? Somebody has to pay, sure, but the benefit outweighs the cost, and the cost will go down if we get government out of it. I don't think all the insurance companies get together and just set an arbitrary high rate.They are, after all, private businesses. I was shopping for a drum of 15W-40 today and the prices ranged from $496 to $681. I'm sure all these guys didn't just get together and set this price range. They have to buy it from their supplier and mark it up for the desired profit margin. Insurance rates are high because doctor rates are high and doctor rates are high because of the high risk of malpractice suits (whether deserved or not) and the insurance will be high to cover the doctor. This is not the entire answer but it is certainly part of it. I believe the private sector, if left alone, will be the saving grace of this country. Fritz.

The Waltons had some real advantages in this matter. First there was a hole bunch of them living in the same house, and second, and more important people didn't live as long. When they all were living on Waltons Mtn If someone got seriously sick they probably died soon. Unlike now, if something went wrong with your heart, lungs, brain or whatever you always died. We have all sorts of medical proceedures that increase the quality and quantity of life. I bet there were no kidney transplants or hip replacements in the 1930's. Disease that were fatal are now cronic and manageable. In fact we can manage several cronic diseases at the same time. I have a uncle in a home. He has prostate cancer, diabaties, lung problems, congestive heart failure and some things I am sure I forgot about or never knew (the VA has treated him well, but I think he earned that in Korea, he had a contract you know). He has had those problems for years. He still likes to visit, sometimes we take him to church, and he likes to get in the pickup and watch the combine, even if it is parked. He gets confused some times and talks about checking out of the hotel and going home. We always tell him we will talk about it next time we see him (that is true, he will bring it up and we will talk about it)and he is happy. He is happy most of the time, has dignity and is comfortable. There is now way we could manage him at home. If he had the health care avaliable to the Waltons he would have died 15 years ago.

I was going to stay out of this..... I even kept from reading it because I knew I'd get pi$$ed off.

[b:814315297f]Fritz is 100% right!! Go back and read his post over and over again until it soaks in. [/b:814315297f]

3 pages of nnalert vs reps and it all boils down to they are [b:814315297f]all[/b:814315297f] the problem!!

Wake up fellas, The Waltons was a TV show, another part of the country's problem is there is no real sense of reality......

Vote them out of office, keep voting them out of office and eventually, we'll end up with Statesmen. We didn't get into this mess overnight, and we won't get out of it overnight.... but pull your heads out of your a$$e$ and understand that all of them need to go, if you vote down party lines, you are as much of the problem as anybody in office.

To qoute Earl Ptts... "Wake Up America!!"

Tim ~ Rant Off......

Got off work here in mid mn around 9 and got the 39 b started up and took for a quick cruise around the property. How's the weather been for you folks

The two posts by Edd are dead on.

Health care spending accounts have been around for years. They do NOT replace insurance, but they ARE intended to reduce health care costs. There is no requirement under external_linkcare for employers to provide HSAs. But employers ARE required to provide insurance.

You wife's employer may be trying to deflect criticism of their plan changes by blaming them on the health care reform bill, but I will make you a 100 percent certain guarantee: If external_linkcare is repealed or declared unconstitutional, they will NOT revert back to the old plan.

Now I've been on a HSA-based plan for a couple of years now, and I can tell you I like it. I like it a lot, in fact. I have always carried a fairly high deductible, and then put money aside in a pre-tax health care spending account to help cover the deductible. The problem was that I never knew what my costs would be in the coming year, so I'd typically put too little in the account. (If you put to much in a spending account, you lose it at the end of the year.) With the HSA, it's simple: I put a bit more in the account than I expect to spend. At the end of the year what I didn't spend rolls over. The important thing is I'm building up a significant reserve in the HSA. If my wife or I have big medical expenses, we now have extra money set aside for it.

An important point of an HSA is the money is YOURS. You can take your contributions out if you like, although those distributions are taxable. If you leave your employer, you keep the HSA. The encourages good behavior: people are a lot less likely to spend their own money on unnecessary procedures than to spend their employer's money on them.

I'm sure after you get your facts straight you'll want to come back and post again with your corrections.

Couple things wrong with what you say, the Rpugs sat on their hands through the whole thing and fought any change so the poor health industry didn"t loose any money. And the other thing is the demos would just be screewnin themselves too. The Repugs have creewed everything up so bad that their own partydoesn"t even want them.

Fritz, Need to get the facts straight.

GM pensions were and are fully funded, it was health care cost that was the straw that broke the camels back, and when it did all that unfunded health care became a drag on the economy and a lot of it will eventually fall to the government.

You obviously haven't been paying many health care bills if you think new tests and processes have reduced health care costs.

I am a conservative, entrepenurial advocate but that does not mean that I am a stupid robot that will follow any right wing dogma spewed out by some self serving talk show host.

I get your point but I have to think smacking a bridge at 90 MPH is instant death helmet or not. Suprising how many states have repealed helmet laws.

A large drain on health care funds will be the upcoming requirement that the parents plan cover the adult children up to age 26. I'm pretty sure most coverage for offspring ends at eighteen or 21 now. Those extra years are going place another burden on the insurers.

Fritz, just a couple points about your idea to let the free market control health care costs like it does other products. I am a retired business man that spent 40 years in the most competitive dog eat dog business in this nation..and survived and prospered. So I fully understand how market pricing works.

The problem with health care is that the purchaser is often under duress or at least severe stress to make a purchase decision and an alternative may not be available.

Since this is a tractor forum lets say you need new tires for your tractor. So you take it in and when they start to install the tires they find that the rims are rotted out and the axle seals are shot. How can you shop price now? Tell them to put it back together unfixed and move it after you have started over looking for the best price?

3 health examples:

It is 3 AM and your 3 yr old baby has a severe ear infection, 103f fever, vomiting, screaming in pain. Doctor gives you a prescription. Are you going to the nearest 24 hour drugstore or are you going to mail it to the low cost drug plan and wait for it to come in the mail?

Your 10 year old grandchild has a very bad bike wreck, breaks an arm, may have a concussion, seems unable to communicate. She is in the emergency room. How do you shop prices? Are you ready to load her up and drive to the low cost hospital?


Your mother is in a hospital, terminally ill. The doctor decides to order a battery of expensive tests and an exotic treatment that will give her a few more weeks of life. I suppose you can call other hospitals, check their prices then load Moms hospital bed, tubes, monitors. catheter bag and all and go down the street to a different hospital just to keep them cost competitive.

Point is the highest cost part of healthcare does not really lend itself to free market competition. Routine healthcare does fit somewhat but most of those savings have already been felt in the system.

Go to a Jiffy Lube and they will spend 10 minutes trying to sell you additional unwanted and often unneeded services. Do you really think people working in health care don't care about owning big houses, nice cars, and taking fancy vacations?

A lot of this stuff sounds good in the abstract but is painfully unrealistic in the real world.

Healthcare costs are so high because the end-user is removed from the purchasing decision. When your company pays, you don't care what it costs. All started in the 1930's when FDR tried to limit execuative pay. He did, but companies simply found other ways to "pay" them, namely free healthcare and other benefits.

End healthcare as a benefit, put all consumers into the market, and watch competition bring the prices down.