Loading cast bullets

jbp · Aug 10, 2011

Anyone here who casts their own gas check bullets for centerfire rifles? Have looked for information on loading them, most information is for jacketed bullets,and not cast. Made some 120 grain and some 160 grain 309 diameter and am uncertain about what powder and how much to use. I plan to load to about 2000fps. Joe

jbp · Aug 10, 2011

Oh forgot,will be loading 30-30 and 30-06 rounds. Thanks, Joe

old · Aug 10, 2011

My Lyman books call those Alloy bullets so you use that chart or at least that is what I do when I load my 44 mag. The guy I got it form cast his own lead bullets for it and I have loaded a good many round that worked just fine.

Anonymous-0 · Aug 10, 2011

I agree with old, try to get a copy of the Lyman book on bullet casting. It is full of tips and has load data, although it is some what dated. But I guess so are cast lead bullets. Also, you don't cast gas check bullets. You buy the gas checks from Hornady and crimp them on cast bullets with a special die.

kaferhaus · Aug 10, 2011

Lead and high velocity do not go together. The equipment for casting, swaging and crimping gas checks is not cheap. You'd have to make several thousand bullets to just break even.

That and it's nasty work.

I got out of the cast bullet craziness years ago... I'm a slow learner..LOL

It was/is much cheaper to just pony up and buy them. The chances of you actually shooting thousands of lead bullets out of either of those rifles is slim and none.

keh · Aug 10, 2011

Putting gas checks on eliminates, or at least reduces the problem of leading in the barrel. Probably improves accuracy.

2000 fps is the top range for reasonable accuracy. 1600fps should be much better, or maybe less. Reason is that as you increase speed of lead bullets, theleads starts to melt from air friction. IMO this starts to happen seriously above 2000 fps. I've pushed some to about 2500 fps and they barely stayed on target.

My advice is to find an accurate load and increase the velocity until accuracy falls off.
as always in reloading, remember that maximum loads can be dangerous, but you will have drastic accuracy loss before you reach dangerous levels.

I got my equipment years ago so it's not costing anything now. I have had no trouble getting enough scrap lead for my uses, free.

KEH

Bret4207 · Aug 10, 2011

Please, you've gotten a lot of incorrect and inaccurate information here. Go to www.castboolit.gunloads.com You'll find out what it takes, how to do it, the tricks and pitfalls of casting. It's not hard, definitely not nasty and the forum has around 20K very helpful casters that love the hobby.

jbp · Aug 10, 2011

I have been casting handgun bullets for the last 40 years so decided to play with some for rifles. Won't be hunting with them, just annilating tin cans and other such targets. I already have all the equipment and a large supply of free wheel weights along with a lot of free time, semi-retired, seventy something farmer. Thanks, Joe

RayP(MI) · Aug 10, 2011

Cast bunches of handgun bullets, and quite a few rifle bullets. A site that has a bunch of great helpers is "reloadbench.com" They have a bbs there where someone can answer about all your questions. Lynan Handbook is good, Lee has a great book too.

On rifle bullets, I strongly prefer gas checks. Lee has a very inexpensive sizer/applicator that sizes and clinches the gascheck in one move, works especially well with Lee"s tumble-lube bullets.

BushogPapa · Aug 10, 2011

I always figure that "cast" bullets should for reduced loads..
Usually (in pistols anyway) under 1,000 FPS..

Never heard of using Lead bullets in an '06..

The 30-30 should be good with them..

I hear that things are changing in the tire-weight business....that all old weights are returning to the weight-maker lately..

Anyone else heard of that.?

Ron.

Jeff Oliver · Aug 10, 2011

I use a 150 gr flat point in both 30-30 and 30-06. Let me get out to my shed tomorrow and I"ll write down the date I use. If I remember right I use IMR 3031 but don"t hold me to it till I check.

And by all means get the Lyman book. My "06 load came from it in a story in the book. I keep mine around 1500-1600 fps and so far haven"t had any problems with them.

GeneMO · Aug 10, 2011

I tried cast bullets in a 45-70. No gas checks, I was going to keep the velocity low and just tinker around with it.

It was a Marlin with Micro-groove rifling. I found out this does not work. I could only get it to work with pure linotype alloy and low velocities. If I tried a softer bullet, or higher speeds, it came out of the barrel and hit the target sideways or backwards.

Dont try it with a Marlin, but then maybe the gas checks will take care of it. The lead was stripping the rifling on that shallow groove.

Gene

BushogPapa · Aug 10, 2011

I always reference 3 to 4 books, Nosler and Hornady among them..

I use use a Full Case of IMR 3031 under a 40 Gr ballistic Tip in my 5.56....they will not go "Thru" a groundhog..just puts their Lights OUT.!

Reduced loads require different powders..
My 1911's, reduced loads, I use "Unique" or "Bulls-Eye)..if I don't mind the cleanup..
A .44 Mag does well with H-110 for near Max loads..
Unique or Bulls-eye maybe Blue-Dot with a filler in .44 reduced loads..

KIP in MX · Aug 10, 2011

I almost wore out a 1959 Winchester model 70 30-06 with cast bullets in the early 70's. Free wheel weights, sized and lubed with gas check. It was cheaper to shoot than a .22 magnum at the time. The Lee cast book, plenty of time, and low velocity are your friends. Good for plinking and small critters, but you have to clean the barrel often. Also, you will have to sight your rifles in for the cast bullets. Great way to get more center fire trigger time and not break the bank.
I've also put a couple thousand rounds of cast bullets through my .243.

MarkB_MI · Aug 11, 2011

Powder selection is critical for reduced velocity loads in large cartridges. Reduced charges of the powders that you would normally use in .30-30 or .30-06 will not work; they burn too slow to generate enough pressure for consistent ignition. Faster powders do not fill the case, which can also cause ignition problems. Under some conditions, light charges of fast powders have resulted in bulged chambers.

The traditional powder for reduced velocity/lead bullet loads has been IMR's SR-4759. But in recent years IMR came out with Trail Boss which is MO BETTA. Trail Boss is the only powder I'd recommend for cast bullet loads in big rifle cartridges. It is a fast-burning but very bulky powder that works in just about any cartridge from .38 Special to .45-70. Hodgdon lists Trail Boss loads for 160 grain jacketed bullets in .30-30 and .30-06. These are close enough to your application that you should be able to use them as a starting point.

IMR is now owned by Hodgdon. In addition to the load data link below, there's a PDF file at <a href="http://hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf">http://hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf</a> that contains some good info.
Hodgdon Powder load data

36 Coupe · Aug 11, 2011

Thats a common problem with micro groove rifling.Gas checks wont help.

Bret4207 · Aug 11, 2011

Cast works great in Microgroove barrels, just as it does in any other barrel. It's all about fit. Go to www.castboolit.gunloads.com and you'll find all the info you need to shoot cast in anything you want. We have people shooting cast up in 3400 fps area now with decent accuracy and no leading.

RGMartin · Aug 11, 2011

if 2000+ is your goal, my advise would be to use a slower powder than you think you need. The slower powder gives a more gradual acceleration and will keep you from leading and stripping the rifling. Something along the lines of 4895 for the 30-30, and 4831 for the 30-06. Something about 10% under the lowest listed/starting loads is where you want to be. Good lube is also paramount.

I have been playing with shooting cast at the local High-power matches on the the last few years. I run a 308 at 2300 with a 200 gr boolit, it will shoot 2 moa or better if I do my part.

Anonymous-0 · Aug 11, 2011

Please listen to what Mark_MI says and be exteramly leary of the RGMartin advise to load slow burning powders at -10% minimum. Slow burning powders are for hot loads in things like the 270 and the magnums. RG is correct in that it slowly builds pressure, but that is not a good thing in underloads, espically with cast bullets. What can happen with a underload of a slow powder is when fired the bullet slowly moves foreward, hits the rifeling and stops ( a hot load won't stop). By this time the extra volume and residence time let all the pressure go at once, it is called secondary detonation. Mike was optomistic when he said it could bulge champers. It can also cause serious injury to your boyish good looks.
Or worse.

MarkB_MI · Aug 12, 2011

Scott, thanks for supporting my statements. I was hesitant to contradict RG, since slow powders apparently work for him, but it flies in the face of conventional wisdom and is probably unsound advice for a beginner. I'm also surprised he hasn't run into problems like smokey or dented cases, caused by poor sealing around the case mouth due to low chamber pressure.

I'll reiterate my recommendation of IMR Trail Boss powder. Since the introduction of this powder, there is no reason to use ANY OTHER powder for reduced velocity and/or cast bullet loads in large-capacity cases. It's that much better.

Bret4207 · Aug 12, 2011

I wouldn't limit myself just to Trail Boss. There are a number of very good powders out there, even for the large cases. It's a matter of learning and getting good advice form those experienced with cast in those cartridges. You aren't going to get that on a tractor board.

RGMartin · Aug 12, 2011

Pick up a copy of LEE#2. Lots of research exactly along the lines of what I said in conjunction with Hodgdon pressure test data.

Maybe it is advanced reloading, but it is documented and researched.

Anonymous-0 · Aug 12, 2011

Hi RG,

I don't have the Lee #2 manual. But I have the earlier one. I also have the new ones from Speer, Sierra, Hornady, Nosler and Barns plus a bunch of the older ones. None have any recomendation for under loading slow burning powders. In fact there are warnings about it. A few years back Precision Shooting had a story about a M96 Mauser that experienced "spontanious dissassemply" while shooting light loads. It made me a believer. It is just that there are so many variables that a guy can get into trouble very quick and without warning. Lee Precision and Hodgdon are to great companies with great products, and if they say they have done it they have, and you have success with it, I believe you. Given the alternatives though, I will wait. Most of the 30 cal. bullets are cast a bit oversize to began with .309 to 312. My Krag needs 311 to work well. I can see an accumlation of differences causing serious problems in my 03A3 or 1917 (wouldn't worry about the model 700 at all) if I went to a slow burner. I also load cast in a trapdoor Springfield. Given that the 45-70 and the 30-40 were designed for black powder, and that is what I feed the cast lead to, I am going to pass on the slow burning stuff.

Loading cast bullets

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