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Hay making Screw-UP!!!

G

Gilbert in IL.

Member
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Our new hay guy(older gentleman, & he wrapped some tight,Straight bales!!!) I called him a month back to get on his "list". He`s done us the Best so far on time frame! Pre-school time.Now, I asked for 4-4 1/2 footers because the back hydraulics on my MF to35 are weak, I`ll admit it!!! I`m "lucky" enuff to have a Wagner FEL on the front & my forks go on the front Too. Long story short, HE told me "No problem", on making 4- 4 1/2`ers.....He made 5 1/2 to 6`ers. I was spin`n tires....& had a bush-hog on back(counter-weight). Do I any right in saying, 5 & a 1/2 footters weren`t the "deal"....&....I can`t move them!!! The last bale, I`m "guessing"....was about 4 1/2 to 5 & was able to move it.
I guess I`m rant`n some, BUT.....HE said, 4-4 1/2, NO Problem!!!
.....thats BS!!! Check`s NOT on the way YET!!! Advise `preciated!
GAS
 
Well, now, if he was agreeable to the requested size and it was no problem, then you have a legitimate complaint. If there was no signed contract, then it's your word against his. If he did quality work as you stated, then I would surely take that into consideration. Might just have to add a little more ballast to the tractor in order to move it.
 
Id not be too happy since youve got something thats going to be difficult to move but by them being bigger you are having to pay for significantly fewer bales. Stuff happens, I've had 6 inches of bale size creep sometime in the middle of July. Didnt realize it until I went to try and put two bales side by side in a 10 foot wide hole. Just wont fit. In my case its belt stretch. Should have caught it but didnt.

I will say this, if someone calls me that Ive rolled hay for and they ask me to be sure to cut my size back next time that the bales are a bit big, its no problem. If they call me b'in and griping about it I'll be nice but I'll make sure I never get around to doing their hay again. Anyone holding payment on me gets 30 days and a legal suit, period, so thats probably not a good road to travel. He rolled the hay for you, you got a lower price since their is more hay per bale, so your case will be hard to prove to a non farmer jury compared to his.
 
How is he charging? If by the bale you win, if by the ton he wins, you got the bales up and you said he was an ''older gentleman'', maybe he forgot.
 
Whats done is done, I would suggest a 3pt bale fork, then you will be able to handle the bigger bales, he is probably charging you by the bale so the bigger the bale the less you gotta pay.
 
Hey,$h!+ happens!Any one whos ever done hay work had f-ups(I know I've had my share!).have a friendly conversation,then drop it.If the problem continues,you may have to find a different balerman.
 
10 acre field.....15 for cut`n & rake`n.....10.50 per bale.....got 28 out of `er.....not Too bad after soil sample test.....BUT, I Asked for 4 to 4 1/2` bales.....I DON~T want to .....& I ain`t going too....BUT....GD`it!
Welp, theres s/c Il. prices....NOT tring to PI$$ people off!!!! But, I`m a `lil dissapointed in .....
 
(quoted from post at 00:26:15 08/09/11) 10 acre field.....15 for cut`n & rake`n.....10.50 per bale.....got 28 out of `er.....not Too bad after soil sample test.....BUT, I Asked for 4 to 4 1/2` bales.....I DON~T want to .....& I ain`t going too....BUT....GD`it!
Welp, theres s/c Il. prices....NOT tring to PI$$ people off!!!! But, I`m a `lil dissapointed in .....
Click to expand...
guess everything is like old Albert E. said...it is all relative. If only if I could have your $25 per roll hay here, I sure would be a happy camper. I have several hundred acres of ZERO yield this year and fertilizer lost to boot. So, yeah, you are not happy, but I am not crying for you, my friend. My cattle are probably about to be gone.
 
I would call the guy and explain to him the situation. Tell him you specifically told him you needed smaller bales because you can't move them with your tractor and wait to see if he has an offer to make it right. If it were me and I messed up (which I do), I would apologize and try to make it right. Maybe he might offer to haul in the bales for you?
 
(quoted from post at 21:26:15 08/08/11) 10 acre field.....15 for cut`n & rake`n.....10.50 per bale.....got 28 out of `er.....not Too bad after soil sample test.....BUT, I Asked for 4 to 4 1/2` bales.....I DON~T want to .....& I ain`t going too....BUT....GD`it!
Welp, theres s/c Il. prices....NOT tring to PI$$ people off!!!! But, I`m a `lil dissapointed in .....
Click to expand...

If the guy is dependable and did a good job, better keep ahold of him. Make or buy a bale fork or spear for the 3pt hitch and move the bales to where you need them then lift with the FEL loader if necessary. The money you saved on wrapping fewer bales should pay for a fork AND your tractor will steer much easier with less wear on the frt end. My little tractor is smaller than yours and 26HP (2600 pounds), I zoom around with 51/2 ft rolls with no problem. A bale on the back is also a good counterweight for FEL work.
If I was the guy and you even gave the slightest hint of dissatisfaction, you wouldn't see me again.... If you got pushy or mentioned not paying, you'd prolly take a butt whipping along with finding another person to do your stuff....

http://www.external_link/agricultur...king-kutter-rs-500-3-point-bale-spear-2120288
 
I bale a lot of hay. It is easy to forget if some one wants something different. I have a few guys that want smaller bales for different reasons. With my newer balers it is not hard to change size and still keep the wraps consistent. So I now try to comply but I can forget.

The older balers I had it was a pain in the behind. When you made smaller bales then you had way too many wrap of mesh on them. Took a few bales to get set. So I quit making different sizes then. If they did not want me to bale I have/had plenty of work anyway.

As for not paying or getting bitchy about the job. You had better have someone else lined up to bale in the future if you do either. I only allow slow pay once, first time is your fault second would be mine. As for complaints on the job I do? Then I recommend they go else where and that way we both will be happy.

Might be better to just fix your tractor. May just be a simple fix. Good custom guys are hard to find and are busy. Bad ones are always available.
 
Whadda want him to do? Go back and unroll 'em all?

Deal with it.

A 4 1/2' bale is a really, really tiny bale and from his point of view, he'd be sittin' out there all day long just tying.

I think ya need to upgrade your loader or get a three-point bale tote, but as always. that's just my opinion.

Allan
 
Whadda want him to do? Go back and unroll 'em all?

Deal with it.

A 4 1/2' bale is a really, really tiny bale and from his point of view, he'd be sittin' out there all day long just tying.

I think ya need to upgrade your loader or get a three-point bale tote, but as always. that's just my opinion.

Allan
 

How much does the bales weigh? If yot more than around 800 pounds, and money is tight (or you don't have a local source for a 3pt spear) shoot me an email and I'll sent you a couple of pics of what I have that works real good and can be made in a few minutes. Just takes a little armstrong power.

Dave
 
I think this is the best idea presented, have the guy help you out. A MF 35 shouldn't be moving those big bales, it is hard on the tractor and over the weight limit and also dangerous. I bale a lot of 4x4 bales for my customers just for that reason.
 
Mabey he just forgot? Mabey he didn't undertand why you wanted small bales. Mabey he just didn't care... Who knows.
He should have done what you asked; no doubt about that... but at this point, you got what you got.
I can tell you... if someone decided they wern't going to pay me, they'd have gotten their last baling done by me. If they decided to bicker about the price I might give in... but next year if I was any ways busy at the time you came looking... I'd be too busy. Moral here is that you probably don't want to get too difficult with him.
Talk to him. Explain that you really can't move the bales and see if he can't help you out somehow in the short term to get them moved.
In the longe term, get the old tractor fixed up so it will lift the bales. A 35 should lift a bale of hay on the 3 point. It might be a big lift but it should lift it... Then you got two problems solved.
If it was me, I'd probably give you a hand moving the bales given the situation, knowing you were stuck... unless you got beligerent about it.

Rod
 
You guys are something else.Really!!!! If that old guy served you at a parts store or dealer and did not get you exactly what you wanted and right away, you would complain about it to anyone that would listen.You would never go to that store again because they don't know sh''t.Don't know how they stay in business!!!But if one of you guys screws up, the customer has to deal with it!!
 
tightwad.. .buy a 3pt rear fork,, alway load the rear first for safety reasons, before you pick up on the front. You might live longenough to complain another day.

till you buy all the equipment yourself.. and then go bale for folks making a bout 3 bucks a hour in wages over your costs.. and lisening to everyone who know better, yada yada yada..
 
It's sometimes helpfull to remember that there are other parts stores... and the internet... and various other options to acquire parts. There may not be so many options to bale hay... so best to not pi$$ off the one you have over something that could have been an honest mistake.
Most here would give the parts counter guy the benefit of the doubt until he at least talked to him about the screw up...

Rod
 
Pay the bill and arrange something to get them in, Do you have an alternate baler?.Do you expect him to unwind and re bale? a bit much.A dollar only goes so far.
 
When you read what is said buying a rear prong is not am option because the tractor is not big enough why do you say it. What he needs to do is talk to the baler and find out what happened and pay the bill and if the baler is anything at all he will help the person that he baled for but made the bales too big for him to handle he may just be able to come up with a solution to handle them. Now if he is not willing then the customer is in problems and may have to go rent something to move them and then I would look for a different person for next time or just get my own baler and it would NOT be a round baler, would if still farming never even buy a round bale because of handling problems. I din't know how you guys with the big males get them in the manger in the barn to feed them. Tried feeding out of outside manger for one year and never again as way too much waste.
 
So it's HIS fault that YOUR tractor is gutless?

Next time, hire someone else who'll do exactly what you ask...get a tractor big enough to do the job...and walk away a wiser man.
 
I ues to do a fair bit of custom work. Not to much anymore. Just not as much time to do as much. Any way the man did the job. YOu didnt get what you wanted and that can be upsetting.Before you get to twisted about it you should talk to the man and see what happened. If he is not willing to work something out do to his mess up then Id look else where.But you still owe the man for his services. If I were him, and Ive had this happen to me before, is if you didnt pay then those bails would become mine for payment. Sounds to me like you just need to talk to him. If your that unsatisfied just sit down and figure what it will cost you to buy all the stuff you need to bail yourself versus havin custom work done cause then if theres a screw up you can only be mad at yourself.
 
I guess I kinda got to laugh at the responses below of the Whiners who are trying to criticize you because they think you are whining. Pitiful. If you asked the guy to bale them light, that is exactly what he should have done. For all who trashed this guys tractor, or are telling him to get a bigger one, doll out some money and help him afford it. That was a pitiful excuse for a reply in my books. Were any of you smart enough to think that it is not just a matter of getting the bales off the field, but having to deal with it all winter every time one needs put out.
The only thing I can see is like a couple of the more descent people said, maybe you can get a rear carrier to help. Of course, if you are RICH, then obviously, they cries of buying a bigger tractor would make sense, just to be able to put out some bales for the winter. I agree that what's done is done, but the guy still did the work for you and you owe him the money. Maybe there is some other hay close that he might bale lighter and trade you out so you don't have to fight it all winter. Long shot but just a thought.
You guys who send out your smart a$$ answers, need to relax and think a little before you reply. My guess is you don't have, or have never had livestock to try to deal with in the winter, probably with a full time job to boot. Trashing the guy's tractor is pretty low. Bob
 
hi i think i would mention it to him, let him know the size is not what we talked about. let him know that he might need to chk things out before he gets into the full baling. then i would deal with it,let him know that mistakes do happen. then get after the hauling etc.... he might even help you, but good custom guys are hard to come by.just my .02cts
 
(quoted from post at 07:30:52 08/09/11) When you read what is said buying a rear prong is not am option because the tractor is not big enough why do you say it. What he needs to do is talk to the baler and find out what happened and pay the bill and if the baler is anything at all he will help the person that he baled for but made the bales too big for him to handle he may just be able to come up with a solution to handle them. Now if he is not willing then the customer is in problems and may have to go rent something to move them and then I would look for a different person for next time or just get my own baler and it would NOT be a round baler, would if still farming never even buy a round bale because of handling problems. I din't know how you guys with the big males get them in the manger in the barn to feed them. Tried feeding out of outside manger for one year and never again as way too much waste.
Click to expand...

You got an F650 to pull your pop up camper dontcha???? :shock:

Just kidding. My tractor is smaller than his and I can put 800 pounds on the loader and another on the 3pt and drive almost a mile to put hay on the pasture. Gonna have arms like popey by next week, but it still goes it. My biggest problem (until I put the FEL back on) was manhandling them big feeder rings to get them over the bales.
 
I'd for sure pay the man for his work, even if it wasn't what I wanted.

Years ago, when round bales were first coming into play, we moved them one at a time with a homemade sled and a B John Deere. For feeding, we had them arranged to move an electric wire and the rings to allow access to a couple of bales at a time. I admit that you ain't gonna be able to deal with them in the dead of winter, with the equipment that you now have, but maybe with a little thought and planning you can overcome this problem.

Our sled was made out of 3/4" plywood and reinforced with 2X6's on the edges. We rolled them on and off the sled with a bumper on the front of the old B. We thought we'd hit the big time, feeding those round bales just like the real farmers. . .

It's a setback for you, but nobody's bleeding.

Paul
 
I would check with him on trading out for smaller bales----could be too much hassle. I would let him know what shape he put you in. if he's a decent fellow he may trade with you. I have hay spikes on my truck, have seen homemades with a hand winch that work okay-may be an option for you. you may want to try the macguyver route. we built a hay hauler with a spike for the fellow down the road out of scrap, an old axle off a cotton trailer, heavy pipe and a winch for next to nothing. just let him know why you needed the smaller bales and make sure he don't do it again, but I would pay him.
 
"We thought we'd hit the big time"...............now THAT'S FUNNY! WHat's the old saying? Turn a sows ear into a purse?
THanks for the laugh Paul!
 
Whatever! What it boils down to is he asked him to make the bales smaller, the guy said he would, and didn't. Now, he still owes the guy whatever was agreed to, but if he was too much trouble, the baler should have said he didn't have time. Being too busy is no excuse for doing a job wrong. Trust me, I grew up where my Dad had close to 500 cows. We baled hay all summer it seemed. I know what it is like to be pushing weather as much as most. But it goes back to the same old adage, that any job worth doing, is worth doing right. Obviously the guy is stuck with what he has gotten, and he needs now to figure out how to deal with it. It's a far cry from the end of the world.
But to say a small guy is more trouble than worth is why this country is in a good portion of the trouble we are in.
 
My neighbor moves large round bales with his MF. He made a box attached to his 3 pt hitch and fills it with cement blocks. You just need more counter weight. If your 3 pt hitch won't lift enough counter weight, jack it up and then chain it.
 
However, it's not to say that the baler necessarily did a bad job. Granted he may have been very busy and forgot. Probably that is the case. My point above is that the poor guy having to deal with larger bales than he can handle shouldn't be chastised because he doesn't own a $135,000.00 tractor big enough to handle them. If the baler forgot, it would be nice if he could maybe help the guy get them off the field or something if needed, but that would only be an offering of friendship thing.
 
You have the right to be angry or at least dissappointed. If it were me, I would pay the man but I would express my concerns about the bales being too big as politely and calmly as possible. I'm guesssing he just did a poor job of estimating size. Probably not much you can do at this point except improvise a way of moving and feeding the bales this year. Maybe he will offer to help out some way or have some suggestions. Hopefully the 2 of you can work something out and remain friendly.
 
You pay him & tell him he messed up. If you are not standing right there to protest what hes doing after making a couple of bales; Murphy's Law steps in; then You have to share the blame!
 
Whats done is done. You gotta pay the man.
Probably an honest mistake and he might help you
move them if he is close. I completely understand
not having a bigger tractor. I started out with an M
Farmall and a 601 ford years ago when everyone of my
neighbors was driving 100hp tractors. You gotta
make do with what you have sometimes.
 
(quoted from post at 10:37:46 08/09/11)If you are not standing right there to protest what hes doing after making a couple of bales; Murphy's Law steps in; then You have to share the blame!
Click to expand...

Bingo if you wanted something specific you should have at least been around at the start of baling to make sure it was to your liking. Very easy to correct before hand, very hard to change now.

Plenty of my custom jobs have specific concerns or requests. I ALWAYS tell the customer to remind me when I start the job. I have a lot of things going and somebody saying they want smaller bales or bigger bales yada yada wouldn't always be the first thing I remembered.

Now as for not paying. If I bale up hay and don't get paid in a timely fashion then I start hauling the bales away in lieu of cash money. Or take them to court.
 
Yea you got me tearing up for the poor fellow now(LOL)If he's going to be handling round bales a MF 35 ain't gonna cut it period ever.I have several tractros that will handle those bales with ease and $3000 is the most I have in any of them.I don't have $135,000 in my hay equipment and my house included!
 
Dave, my truck is a 2000 Dodge Dakota with the 4.7 gas engine, what is considered a usless truck by many but pleanty big for my needs. I figure it will handle my 24' bumper pull camper as easy as my 1974 Chevy 1/2 ton with the 350 and the tractors I have left are a 1941 Ford 9N and a 1944 Ford 2N with 23 pto hp and that is just about the size of yours. Biggest ever was a 30 year old Ford 5000 of 60 hp when farming. I would have not on that 5000 atemped to put that kind of a load on the 3 point hitch that he has gotten by a mistake of somekind.
 
About 20 years ago I had a CD mature at the local bank. Went to redeem it and after returning home realized I had been shorted quite a sum of money. I returned to the bank and to the clerk who had waited on me and informed her of the mistake. She thanked me profusely for bringing the matter back to her rather than complaining to her supervisor.

The moral of the story is I now have a friend rather than an enemy for not throwing a hissy fit over an honest mistake. Go talk to the guy rather than complaining to the world. He might just surprise you and you might gain a new friend. Joe
 
A MF 35 with a properly equipped spear should handle those bales. We handled a lot fo silage bales, just as heavy... with a Fordson Dexta and Ford 860. The MF35 is arguably very much in the same class. The 3 point should lift them and the loader should counter it well enough to steer...
We had no loaders on those tractors and spent a LOT of time steering with brakes.

Rod
 
Yep! Sometime in the mid-'70s (probably), I baled some hay for a neighbor with a 605C; the bales would run between 1200 and 1500#. The only tractor he had was a 2000 Dorf. He could pick 'em up, but couldn't drive forward; moved 'em all going backwards.
 
I'm sure there is ano0ther parts store and i'm sure there is another guy with abaler around..That's not my point. The point is here on this forum,if you can check the archives you will see lots of post about the new kid in the parts store or the guy that can't read the computor and you guys tear him a new one every time. No excuses just they can't do there job or are a no good young punk.But when of you make a mistake,you expect the customer to dish out cash for new equipment to fix the old guys mistake.Double standard here!!
 
You can always throw a cinch around them and drag
them. They really scoot along nice on snow.
 
(quoted from post at 20:52:19 08/08/11) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our new hay guy(older gentleman, & he wrapped some tight,Straight bales!!!) I called him a month back to get on his "list". He`s done us the Best so far on time frame! Pre-school time.Now, I asked for 4-4 1/2 footers because the back hydraulics on my MF to35 are weak, I`ll admit it!!! I`m "lucky" enuff to have a Wagner FEL on the front & my forks go on the front Too. Long story short, HE told me "No problem", on making 4- 4 1/2`ers.....He made 5 1/2 to 6`ers. I was spin`n tires....& had a bush-hog on back(counter-weight). Do I any right in saying, 5 & a 1/2 footters weren`t the "deal"....&....I can`t move them!!! The last bale, I`m "guessing"....was about 4 1/2 to 5 & was able to move it.
I guess I`m rant`n some, BUT.....HE said, 4-4 1/2, NO Problem!!!
.....thats BS!!! Check`s NOT on the way YET!!! Advise `preciated!
GAS
Click to expand...

How many bales did the old fella bale for you?
What kind of "hay"?

I'll bet you and the old fella could work out some kind of trade for lighter bales if you talked to him and explained your problem.
 
I don't see that the suggestions given in this thread are any different than nearly any other... There are many of us who are equally sympathetic to the new guy on the parts counter.
If you want to get right down to it... there was some blunt suggestions given here for no reason other than the problems were being aired out in a public forum when a simple conversation with the guy would have sufficed... and find out why things were done the way they were done.
What rubs me the wrong way about it, and perhaps others... is the notion that we're going to play tough guy and withold payment until it's made right. If that was at the parts counter and that game was played you'd be off to court... yet some seem to see that as acceptable in this situation without so much as allowing the old guy to defend himself first.
I can tell you from experience that a lot of these baling jobs and other such small farm jobs are seldom done strictly out of motive for profit on the part of the doer.... It's more often done to help someone out or at least bring the begging to an end and the exchange of money is secondary or just a bit of extra cash. IE... it's a paid favor. It would be nothing to the guy doing the work if he wasn't asked again. Believe me. Most of these damn jobs I've done for people over the years have cost me more than I was ever paid for them.

Rod
 
You can't make up your own law. Taking the bales would be theft. If the custom baler wasn't paid, he could take the farmer to court but he can not take the bales in lieu of payment unless the farmer agree's to it. I believe it's a form of extortion.
 
I didn't say he needed a BIGGER tractor...I simply said his tractor was apparently too GUTLESS to do the job. Maybe with a freshened engine or hydraulic system, it might handle those bales.
 
(quoted from post at 20:23:05 08/09/11) You can't make up your own law. Taking the bales would be theft. If the custom baler wasn't paid, he could take the farmer to court but he can not take the bales in lieu of payment unless the farmer agree's to it. I believe it's a form of extortion.
Click to expand...

If this was in response to me then it is spelled out in the agreement that the customer signs. If no payment the bales are removed on shares (IE customer keeps enough to cover the cost of the hay itself, I get enough to cover my cost of cutting, raking, and baling). Only had to resort to this once, and I no longer make hay for that person.
 
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