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Ring ridge reamers and a question about modern society

Ultradog MN

Ultradog MN

Well-known Member
Location
Twin Cities
I went to Oreilly's today. Had heard they rent/loan tools there and I don't own a ridge reamer. They do loan tools. Pay $53 on your credit card and get the reamer for 48 hours. When you return it you get a full refund.
Pretty good deal.
I expected the tool to be of dubious quality - beat up and used hard, worn out. But when he handed it to me it was brand new in the box. So I asked him if most people just buy one? He looked it up on his computer and said no. This is the first time in over a year that one had gone out of that store.
Well now that just kind of struck me as odd.
Granted this is the city and all (Minneapolis) so probably not a lot of tractors around. But aren't there fellows fixing the engines on their boats or hot rods any more? Nobody fixing their snowmobiles or log splitters? No one fixing an old pickup to get a few more years out of it?
Is no one is doing a simple inframe to a 56 Ford or Chevy? - rings, rod bearings and valves?
Is every one but me sending their engine off the to the professionals for a complete rebuild?
Am I that out of touch to do an old fashioned ring job??
Or is there something else going on?
Is it that people just don't have these simple skills anymore?
At least not the hobbyists?
Or people are just more interested in watching it done on Modern Marvels and not fixing stuff themselves any more?
Is it the schools aren't teaching this stuff to boys these days? Heck I did this on a tractor in Ag class in High School. It isn't anyhing special.
But the tool did get me wondering today.
First use or sale of a simple ridge reamer from a very buisy store in over a year.
Just wondering what others have to say about it here I guess.
Thanks for letting me rant.
 
I have used 3 kinds of ridge reamers. I have never had much luck with the scraper type with no rollers, they gouge. The scraper type with rollers work good. The lathe type can take too much off as it works its way up.
I think I am the only one in my county that will rering an engine. If you count your time, it may not be worth it.
 


1. They aint teaching that in high school any longer.

2. No, most peoples idea of restoring or hot rodding a car is to get a reman or crate engine or buying one (whole car) that is already done. Keep in mind that in the 50s and 60s people expected to do rings and bearings every 100k or so. Sense the early 80's engines are averaging 200K Plus!

3. I myself haven't done a ring and bearing job in over 10 years. Now I do a complete rebuild if something needs done.

4. Could be that most of the people who do that kind of thing already have a ridge reamer, I have 2, plus all the other stuff like valve spring compressor, hones ans so on. So why would I be buying anything like that?

5. Most shops do not rebuild anything any longer. That way if there is a warrenty issue they don't have to eat the cost of the parts.

6. Look at some of the questions ask on this forum. Lots of folks out there that don't have any idea. At least they are on here asking questions and trying.

Rick
Rick
 
throw away society---kids growing up with video games instead of hard work. auto shop is almost a thing of the past. cars running down the road over 150,000 miles with no issues. crate engines instead of tear downs. I remember when I was a kid tearing down a few engines with my dad, doing whatever work we could and saving the work for the machine shop where it was needed. I have two nephews-the oldest is into racecars and he can list all the torque specs and part numbers for any chevy part made, the other one couldn't tell you the difference between a wrench and a screwdriver. most people can't do their own plumbing, much less tell you how a 4 stroke combustion engine works. you are not the only person who this frustrates.
 
Jerry----

I have used the "free use" program offered at my local Auto Zone a few times in the last few years.

First use was a bushing driver set that appeared to have not been used hardly at all...

Last year, I repaired a leaky manifold on the 8N and went and rented their torque wrench set. This set was still in the original shrink wrap package and I was the first one to use it....

This Auto Zone is one of 3 within a 15 mile radius and does a tremendous business.....maybe all the "shade tree" mechanics except for me own all their own tools....

I am lucky to have a brother that works for Snap-On Tools. I think he has at least one of everything they ever manufactured stored in one of his two garages.....all just waiting for me to borrow them :>)

Tim
 
Maybe should have mentioned...
Bought this thing as a basket case. Cheap.
Engine out. Crank out. Pistons out. Etc
Engine blew a head gasket and they tore it all apart, had the head reworked and then lost interest. Pistons, bores, crank, etc mic up good.
Plan was to rering it, bearings, etc and put it all back together. Make a buck.
It's not a bad little tractor but not worth a full blown engine rebuild.

100_03731.jpg


100_03741.jpg
 
Engine blocks are better, rings last much longer, and the magic oil that lubes these parts in today's cars and PUs is far superior to the stuff of the 50's and 60's. Most engines run over 250K before the rings wear out. Here in MN, most of the car bodies have been sacrificed to the gods of road salt by that time.

The schools have dropped their auto shop classes as having too much "liability". School administrators are dupped into the idea that all cars can be fixed with a computer (so stated to me by an Asst Princ in charge of academic program...who drove a new toyota every 3 years). She had the auto shop equipment and all the shop equipment auctioned off by an auction house that charged 20% commission. The former shop space was then used for wrestling practice, a study hall, and a computer lab. Kids have no high school (or Jr Hi) shop experience, not even a wood shop to build a simple bird house. I taught physics in that school for 32 years, and had to retire early because I could not stand the ignorance and arogance of administrators. I was going nuts!!

Jerry, you know I rebuild tractor engines as needed, and I have my own ridge reamer and the other basic tools of rebuilding. But once I get them whipped into shape, they don't need my engine rebuilding experience and tools for the rest of my life. I credit that to much better oils than yesteryear. I rebuilt my 8N in 1974 and it still works, runs without smoke, and has respectable compression. When I started my hay business in the early 80's, it ran the sickle bar, the rake, and the baler. But because of the hills we have, I quickly moved up to a 300 IH Util for the baling tractor, and then up to a Ford 8000 (my first diesel). The 8000 has 11,000 hours and has never been opened up...good oil pressure and good compression. Credit good engine manufacturing and good oil for its long life.

Some day one of my grandsons will inherit my ridge reamer, and probably put it in his "historical tools" collection....strange stuff that Grandpa (me) had back in the last century.

Most of today's backyard mechanics do not speak English as their native language. We are a lost generation. Thanks to YT for a place we can get together, one of the few plusses of this computer technology generation. No, I don't need no stinkin I Phone! But I will keep my ridge reamer and cylinder hone for those few rare occasions when I need them.

Paul in MN
 
I think all the answers are knda working back to to this in summary. The older folks that ARE doing that sort of think probably have the tools and the younger generation thinks an engine comes in a box. That is at least what I see. Just amases me how much usable machiner is going to the scrap yards now days. If it don,t run scrap it that seems to be the mind set now.
 
I feel like defending my generation. Restored I've restored these myself in my 19 years on earth with my own money from hard work. Don't give up on us yet!!
a44380.jpg

a44381.jpg

a44382.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 17:34:47 07/08/11) Maybe should have mentioned...
Bought this thing as a basket case. Cheap.
Engine out. Crank out. Pistons out. Etc
Engine blew a head gasket and they tore it all apart, had the head reworked and then lost interest. Pistons, bores, crank, etc mic up good.
Plan was to rering it, bearings, etc and put it all back together. Make a buck.
It's not a bad little tractor but not worth a full blown engine rebuild.

<img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/Ultradog/For%20Sale%202/100_03731.jpg">

<img src="http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/Ultradog/For%20Sale%202/100_03741.jpg">
Click to expand...

Jerry let me know when you get that one done. I may be interested......or we could talk as is.....

Rick
 
Bingo.

Automotive/light truck engines are throw away, and hot rodders can buy a crate motor for about the same price that a good rebuild costs.

Dean
 
my take on it----- high schools have stopped most shop and mechanics classes. Now local community college teaches basics or more if you want to pay for it, kinda sad that in my high school vo ag class I learned to weld (at least to stick 2 pieces of metal together butt ugly)basic mechanic and electrical. Let us wire the meeting room we built on edge of butcher floor, oh yea, dont teach butchering any more :(
 
Is that a 3910 or one from that series? Great tractor. Tires look great; these days, that"s something in itself!
 
Holy smokes, 20 myself and have restored (almost) only one tractor.
My hats off to you!. Maybe if I didn't make the decision to go to college I could have some toys :'-(
 
Agreed. I have a CJ7 in the basement with a tired 360. With the price of a long block from Advance Auto, I would never consider rebuilding the one I have.

I don't know why anyone would unless it was their favorite hobby.
 
I own four or five ridge cutters and havent used one in 20 years. I figure if the ridge won't hone out andthe ridge needs cut the block probably needs bored. also helps that I have my own boring bar. Paul
 
O'Reilly's does not attract the sort of clientele that's likely to need a ridge reamer. Weekend mechanics replace struts and tie rod ends more often than they do ring jobs.

It happens I do own a ridge reamer. It belonged to my father, but I haven't used it since I acquired it from his estate. I did loan it to a friend who was fixing an old John Deere tractor. He knew nothing about ridge reamers and cylinder hones, but he was very happy and proud of himself when he got his tractor running again.
 
Between me and dad, I have the tools to do pretty much anything. But I haven't done much wrenching like that in years. I restored a 300U & a Farmall H about a dozen years ago. Some of those tools haven't been used since. Our vehicles are all GM, and the engines way outlast the bodies. Our old 94 K Blazer was sold to a friend, it has near 400K on it. He says it's starting to burn oil. And by the time I buy all the parts, a new motor might be cheaper.
 
Only time I ever used a ridge reamer was when the bores were so bad I couldn't get the slugs out without cutting the ridge first...
If there was a ridge I'd be sending it for a visit with a boring bar.
Needless to say I don't own a ridge reamer though I do very little engine work. Got one due, looking like this fall before it stuffs a rod out.

Rod
 
So how many boat anchors you got? I took home an MF35 in this condition, was interested in the back half, then was inpressed the way the Standard diesel was designed, and started a rebuild. The jury is still out on that. everything is in, now the injector won't inject. That is a very expensive trip to town, so... I am tearing into the fuel injector like a baboon in a Buick. Wasn't on my list of things to do. Everyone told me there was a hunch the pump was OK cause the problem with the engine was that it froze, then ruined the bearings, had to be running to do that... either way, diesels are two projects. the engine itself, then the fuel system. cripe. But back to the subject, your neighbor Paul hit the nail on the head. Anyone who knows mechanical 'hands on' engineering will write his own ticket, like a ferrier or trapper long after the rest went extinct. I find it hard to talk to anyone- in English- under 50 who still 'wants' to get dirty. A ridge reamer seems to be more of a car and truck tool, since most tractors have some sort of replaceable sleeve as part of the kit.And so do today's alloy blocks. I got a strut compressor from auto zone, he said if you really like it, and want to keep it, just don't bring it back, we will keep the money. I did.
 
I rebuilt bouts 4 motors this past year, never had to use a ridge riemer, just had a ball hone fur cross hatching the liners
 

Not really throw away. They want the core. But in most cases the price of a master kit plus the machine shop charges you can get a reman with a warrenty. With prices like that you just about have to be a die hard to do the rebuild yourself anymore.

Rick
 
I've got access to one owned by my dad but have only seen it used once that I can remember in my 43 years. That one time was about 10 years ago when we did an inframe on our 50's model 440IC Deere dozer. As far as we could tell it had never been rebuilt. Other than cutting off a slight ridge and then using a Sunnen pressure hone to take the bores one out to a standard .010, oversized everything else in the engine looked good.

That said it has gotten to the point nowdays that what most of the other posts have said are right, engines seem to be outlasting the bodies, and buying a reman or new crate engine is often cheaper than doing a rebuild...and it usually comes with a warranty. To me though no warranty can outshine the feeling of accomplishment of taking a box full of parts and putting them back together into a sweet running engine.
 
Tyler Jackson, and any other youngsters out there, we have not completely given up on the younger generation. As a matter of fact, it makes us old timers right proud to see a youngster taking an interest in repairing and restoring old iron.
Problem is, today's autos and trucks have so much emissions and electronics on them that you can't pull it out under the backyard shade tree and work on it like you once could. Once you FIND the engine, the basics of repairing it are basically the same.
My dad was a decent shade tree mechanic and I kinda followed in his tire tracks. By the time I was 21 I was doing a brake job or tune up nearly every weekend for some of the boys that I worked with. Never did but one "in frame" engine job though. Had a '54 Ford 6 cyl that was smoking and Dad said heck, just put new rings and rod bearings in it. A few weeks later the rear main let go and almost ruined the crank. Had to pull the engine and do a complete rebuild.
I still enjoy working on stuff, but at 72 it takes a little longer to "get 'er done".
 
Alot of people just don't have the knowledge to do that any more. When I was going to school seams like someone was always doing a motor rebuild, rather right or wront they were doing it. Almost any kid now days can fix a computor, but when it comes to mechanics watch out. Stan
 
The magazines out there that feature wrench-twisting articles tell the younger generation about either installing a "crate motor" or having your engine bored.

Best I can tell, neither of these solutions have anything to do with a ridge reamer, since boring is farmed out to the machine shop.

THERE is the answer to your query. Apparently nobody these days simply rebuilds an engine anymore. It's either rebored and the pistons replaced, or the whole shebang is replaced with a crate engine. Bet they have no experienced with having piston skirts "knurlized," either.
 
Now days few people do any thing old school. Yep O'Reilly's has a good deal on rented tools as long as they come back in good shape. I rent a few on and off from them. Oh by the way I can give you a clue as to how to save 10% on most stuff from them bu will not do it here so send me an e-mail and I will explain it
 
I agree with old. Most people today don't have a clue how to work on anything. Just parts changers.

True story. My son had a friend with a 1967 Fairlane 289 engine in it. Couldn't get it to run correctly. Ask me if I would take a look at it. So the kid comes over nice car but sounded like crap.He handed me a bag of parts and ask me. Where do theses parts go. Open the bag to find points and condensor. Got to work pulled out my dwell meter and the kid ask me.What is that,so I explained it to him.

Got the car running good and was sitting inside checking it out. Lowered the sun visor and found the kids card stateing that he was an ASE certified engine mechanic. I just shook my head wished the kid good luck enjoy the car. Sent him on his way.
 
Great board. Great posts.
Guess I should have figured that guys who would actually do an in frame would already have the tools. Crate motors too - never bought one so didn't think about them. And modern oils and incredibly high mile engines. Also sleeves in old tractors. So easy for even the DIY types like myself to just pull in new sleeves. But these 3 cyl Fords were parent bore so that wasn't an option here.
Tyler, those are some real good looking projects you did. You will go far if you keep it up.
Thanks to all.
 
Have my ridge reamer, ring compressor, ring groove cleaner, and ring spreader from back when I used it on my 53 Studebaker. Used it a few times since and still would not get rid of it. In a few years it will likely end up in the dumpster when the kids clean out the place. Kids lease their cars now and never open the hood.
 


Part of the issue here is how we live too. When I was a kid in NJ all up and down the street "dads" would be doing tune ups, oil changes and brake jobs on Saturday morning. Then they made it a pain to legally get rid of the oil and added the first round of pollution control stuff. I remember some of the late 70's car where you really could not see the engine for all the vacuum hoses and wiring. Add in IE that people didn't understand and extended tune ups to 45k plus extended oil changes. Now dad could sleep in or spend more time fishing

Now as time went on and I was in the Army on tanks we got in fewer people who knew anything about mechanics. By the time I retired in 96 I don't think one in 50 of the new kids could do more than check their oil.

Last high school attended in rural MN had Ag classes. They were manditory for the guys. We worked on cars and tractors, welded, built bunk feeders......ECT. By 2000 they still had that class but no shop time because of liability issues. It was funny, it was required that everyone build a bunk feeder. They figured that the kids from town had relatives who farmed who would pay for the materials. Then I show up and we didn't farm and knew no one in the area. Dad went into the school and told em that he wasn't paying for materials for something we didn't need and that they had better not flunk me for it. The Ag teacher had to scramble to find a farmer to sponser my project. That school has now dropped the AG program when the teacher retired and the budget was tight a couple of years ago.

Yea there are a few youngsters out there that are doing things but most wanna ride "personal water craft" or snow mobiles or the couch.

Rick
 
I still have a ridge reamer, haven't used it in years. As said above, throw away or replaceable sleeves. Neighbor's hired help borrowed it last spring to do rings in an old Jeep, said it worked well, and he might call on me again.
 

Like paul says,,, I just rebuilt a Toyota 1.6 that had 245K on it,,, No ridge, piston are ring ware, no valve guide ware BUT did have a spun rod bearing... If they did not spin bearings I spec they would run forever 8).. This was my own engine if it had been a customer pay I would not have took on the liability... Why cuzz I can not afford to loose 30/40 hr. of my time... Labor rates have changed how shops operate,,, its funny you could get more work done when it was $5 a hr. :shock:

I installed a set pistons on the rods for a bud that runs a foreign car shop last week end,,, it was his son's car that he was ring'n in chassis over the week end,,, he went with new pistons cuzz he could buy rings and pistons cheaper than he could buy just the rings
 
I teach Tech Ed teachers!
I teach them hands on with lathes, milling machines, Welding (all types from Gas to wire to Electronic conditioned TIG (Miller))
Wood technology, Construction, Design using Sketching and Solid Modeling, Transportation and Energy (Small engines), Plastics, and graphics. They leave here with safe practices on everything from hand saws, to HAAS milling machines. We do not believe in computer simulations of reality.
Our Technology Managers are also conditioned with those skills. They are not experts, they are capable!! Jim-- St. Cloud State University MN
 
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