UP date on the warranty issue of earlier!!!!

In my earlier posting I just wanted the poeple on here to think about what happens when they have warranty work done. I want everyone to be successfully in their businesses. Whether it is the guy part time farming or the small dealership that is trying to stay a float. I dislike the big multi store dealerships. They will just help kill off that many more of our small towns/businesses. I wanted everyone to think about how their actions affect the ones they are dealing with. They want the person selling to them to treat them fairly and honestly. The person selling has the right to want the same.

I only used John Deere as an example because I am the most familiar with how it works clear through the dealer getting paid. I do work for a local Ford/New Holland dealer. He has much the same policies with them as the dealers did with John Deere.

I saw the actual payment credits that the dealer received. I did the settlements at the last two dealers I worked for. I actually did the paper/computer work to get the dealership paid or the dealer to pay John Deere.

What started me off on this is that I see many on here that are searching for the cheapest deal all of the time. Then complain that the local guy will not warranty what they bought ten states away.

On another post here a guy was mad at his local dealer when the dealer told him straight up that if he bought it some where else that they would do the warranty work BUT after their customers where taken care of. The dealer was honest about it but the guy was mad at him.

As to those that thought I was whining. I have been blessed in this life. I have been married twice to two very good women, widowed once. I have everything paid for that I own. I have healthy kids and grand children, that is my most valued thing. I can work as little or as much as I want to. I have always tried to help my fellow man out as much as I can. So I am not worried about those that think I was whining. The good man upstairs will get to pass the final judgment on me and that is the one that counts.


BLESS YOU ALL!!!!!!!

AMEN! i am self employed the same thing happens in the roofing and window business.they say i am to high priced. got a cheap deal but when problems arise, they want me to fix for cheap.not going to happen!

I understand where you are coming from.

Your message had a little odd tone to it, it's real hard to feel sorry for an ag dealership the past 24 months. They've had a _lot_ of money walking in the doors of late.

Warrenty work is what the company says it will do for me the customer, kinda rude for a dealership to not honor that. Guess car dealerships do a little better job. As a customer, don't matter none to me how it's divided up, I got a warrenty that says it should get fixed, dealership or corporate problems aren't my concern when a machine goes down, I need it back just as much as the next person.

So - yea I get your point, but really not going to be of much concern to us lowly customers, it's between you & corporate, not me.

--->Paul

Years ago the local Allis dealer had a nearly new tractor in the shop with a hole in the block from a thrown rod. Dealer was having trouble getting Allis to warrenty it. Had only a few hours on it. Meanwhile every customer that came in for months saw it, had to be hurting sales of new tractors.

(quoted from post at 21:29:27 06/28/11) AMEN! i am self employed the same thing happens in the roofing and window business.they say i am to high priced. got a cheap deal but when problems arise, they want me to fix for cheap.not going to happen!

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Uncle had an alignment shop a long time ago....... an alignment was $18.90......Folks woulkd call and say "sears is doing it for $16.. He's say "OK, we'll see what we can do, give me your name and type of car" They'd give it and he'd say "go on to sears, but if you bring this car to me in the next 6 months it'll be $25".............

He's retired but the shop is still there. Prices are some different though...

Bingo!! Great post.

Hi JD, i agree with you 100%. I have bee in the farm machinery trade 53 years now and we have the same problems here in the UK. I run my own company and have been a main dealer for Manitou telescopic handlers and forklift trucks for 28 years till we lost the agency two years ago. About 10 years ago I was asked by a farmer 30 miles away to quote him for a new machine along with 6 other dealers. Idid not get the order then 2 months later he rang me for a part for an older Manitou machine wich i had in stock. While he was on the phone i asked about the new machine deal to wich he replied you was out on price. To this i replied that i thought i would be as you can not be the best price on a tight deal and also keep a lot of parts in stock as well. He came over and collected the part and said very little about the new machine. MJ

Its my problem if I can make $$$ or not farming and its the dealer's problem if he can make $$$ or not
being a dealer.And the dealer must have been making pretty good amount of $$$ to put you in good financial shape.Whine On.

Do you go to his farm and pay him more for his steaks than you could buy them anywhere else? Can't get over this crazy attitude farm equipment dealers have about they 'deserve' more than the other guy.Of course I guess the 'other' guy cries too.Sounds like a lot of farm equipment dealers need to Man Up and put their Big Boy Britches on.

A lot of dealers here lived extremely lean for the past few decades other than the last couple of years.

I think most of the dealers that are around here now would have gone out of business years ago if they did not have their shops and parts departments squared away. The closest dealers with one exception are 20 minutes away and if they had failed years ago you would be talking about driving 45 minutes to an hour to do business. I would hate to think of more going out in terms of providing competition. Case IH has too little for my liking.
I know personally that not every dealer (Deere or otherwise) retired fat and happy in these parts. Some guys lost their tails and some went to work where they had to wear a name tag and hat.
Sure, some were jerks but most were ordinary guys that tried to do right by their customers and families.

Appears you come by your "people skills" honestly, Dave- LOL

JDseller,

I had to go back and do a little reading. I have to agree with you.

Fact: Dealers lose money on warranty work and factory mandated modifications.

Conclusion: Therefore, any dealer that does warranty work for a competitor is financing his own destruction.

One of the dealers I wrenched for when I was younger had a reputation for very good work.
If customer brought another dealer's machine in for warranty work, we would bill the customer for the full repair. Then we would credit him back after Deere settled the claim. Any difference came out of the customer's pocket. I was a great supporter of doing business this way.

So how were we able to do this? No one in his right mind would fork over cash to get warranty work done, right? A lot of times the "discount dealer" didn't even have the necessary equipment to do the job. Even more often, they wouldn't have anyone trained to do the work. Or, they might have one guy qualified, and he was booked up for weeks.

You bargain shoppers should not worry. This practice has pretty much died out. The single store dealer is being forced out by logistics and price breaks to the bigger group stores. The major manufacturers will always promote the lie that their dealers are staffed to overflowing with well trained experts. Chances are, the new mega-dealer really will have someone who can diagnose and fix the latest wonder gadget. But he might be at another store in the chain.

Buy Used + Anticipate Junk = Years of amazement that the machine still works w/no warranty to worry about.

An' dats why I buy used. Well' that & I'm kinda poor. ;v)

MY experience was in the car dealerships, where warranty work CAN be a profit center...if the dealership handles it right.

One dealership turned their warranty work from a break-even at best to a profit center by making warranty repairs a priority at the dealership. EVERY car that came in was run through the dealer computer to check for outstanding [uncompleted] recalls, no matter HOW old the car was.

Second, the warrranty clerk's job was adjusted, so that the top priority was NOT simply to FILE warranty claims for reimbursements, but to GET THEM PAID. Which meant that, when the DSM was in the dealership for his monthly visit, it wasn't just a lunch date with the service manager; it was time to sit down and explain some of the unpaid claims--which meant that the warranty clerk had to understand something about WHY and HOW the repair was done--and to get the DSM to authorize payment on as many as possible.

Technician pay? Simple answer. The dealership switched the techs from being paid Chilton time to being paid factory [warranty] time on a job. So then, if a job only paid 4.5 hours, but the tech took 8 hours to do the work, the tech only got paid the 4.5 hours. To make that palatable to the techs, hourly pay rates were raised in the shop...and the customer-pay shop labor rate was adjusted, initially to 3 times the hourly rate paid to the best-paid master tech.

Warranty claim settlement statements came off the cumputer daily, and 10-bin warrant parts storage areas were utilized [by the last digit of the repair order number], and all parts replaced under warranty were tagged...with all warranty parts tags filled out COMPLETELY. In the case of most manufacturers, they could still call a replaced part back for inspection up to 30 days after the claim was paid; so it was the warrranty clerk's job to issue a list DAILY of the warranty parts that were eligible for scrappage. In one dealership these guys owned, the warranty clerk pulled the scrap parts; in another, the parts department stock clerk handled that responsibility.

If the manufacturer's labor reimbursement rate for warranty repairs was low, most auto manufacturers had a procedure spelled out in their warranty administration manual to address that. Amout once every 12-18 months, the dealership would call the neighboring car dealers of ALL makes and do a survey of their customer-pay labor rates. If the "usual and customary" labor rate in the area was higher than the warranty reimbursement rate, the dealer could then petition the manufacturer for an increase in the warranty labor reimbursement labor rate. Usually the manufacturer would agree to an increase, even if it wasn't 100% of what the dealership was seeking.

And I've seen warranty parts reimbursement rates go from cost + 20% to an almost-universal cost + 30%...and when I got out of the parts biz, Ford was discussing going to cost + 40%. There was usually a procedure for claiming freight on the warranty RO, but most parts people didn't understand how to bill it, nor did most warranty clerks know how to claim it. In my last years in parts, some manufacturers were going back to the A-B-C-Z classifications on part; so if it was a class A part, it was something the dealer most likely SHOULD HAVE had in stock, and there was no freight reimbursement. Class B and C parts were eligible for freight reimbursement. Of course, just because FORD [or whoever the manufacturer was] said a certain part was a "class A" part, that was no indication that YOUR dealership sold enough of 'em [3 or more in 12 months] to stock 'em.

And towing was a sublet item. WHY?? Because most dealerships found that it was easier to get sublets paid, no questions asked, than to go to the expense of having their own wrecker or roll-back and keeping it [and a dedicated wrecker driver] in DOT compliance. Towing often had a maximum reimbursement limit; but then, most of the new-car warranties also had 1 year of some sort of emergency roadside assistance, which INCLUDED towing. In those cases, towing was only reimbursed under warranty for the amount in excess of the roadside assistance limits.

One dealership group I worked for sold their used cars at ALL their dealerships with Ford extended warranties. [A certain semi-rigorous used car inspection program had to be in place for the car to qualify for the extended warranty...but since the dealership routinely did used-car inspections before the cars hit the lot, it was easy enough to tailor the inspection to meet Ford specs.] So whenever one of their used cars came back with a warranty issue, they were booked in at the Ford dealership wirh a Ford warranty repair order...and then the work was "sublet" to the other dealership they owned, because Ford very seldom questioned parts and labor rates on sublet repairs. Customer paid their $100 deductible, dealership made the money on the actual repair, and everyone walked away happy.

Farm equipment manufacturrs MAY work differently than that. If the manufacturer is THAT bad about standing behind both their equipment AND their dealers, I'm not sure I'd be so darn proud to represent them. BUT that's based on my 30 or so years in auto dealerships, and not from any experience working for a farm equipment dealership. And based on that, I still think I was justified in walking away from the Ford dealership who told me he'd find a way NOT to schedule me for repairs...ever. Because I've learned over the years that if he was losing money on his waranty work, it was most likely his own fault.

(quoted from post at 06:38:36 06/29/11) Appears you come by your "people skills" honestly, Dave- LOL

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His shop was always full.. I worked there for 6 months or so before joining the army . He treated folks super good but wouldn't take any BS. tell folks "I ain't got time to fool with you" and walk off or hang up. Folks knew where they stood with him right away....

The problem is that the auto world has hundred of thousands of repetitions to have pretty good flat rate times. The farm equipment world is much different. In todays world the average run on 100 hp plus tractors is 2000-3000 per year for each model. The flat rates on machinery are not as accurate. We usually figured 1.5 times the factory rate was doing good. The parts are figured at dealer cost. I have only ran into a few lines that paid more than that on parts. They where usually a short line that paid parts only.

The real problem is that too many people really do not know what the warranty is when they buy some thing. I am guilty of this too. I have small electronics that have warranty on them that I never go to the trouble to use. Simpler for me to just replace the item.

Example of how warranties are complicated is lawn tractors. The battery is a separate warranty. Blades and belts are not covered unless there was a mechanical failure that caused them to break. I have had guys have a belt break that we could find not reason for. I was positive that they had not done anything either to cause the failure. I would then try to split the bill with the customer. The cost to the store was advertising/ sale promotion for the future. The problem was I could not do it every time something happened. I felt really bad many times when guys had things break/fail and there was not any warranty available. It was really bad during the eighties when we all where struggling to survive. A major break down could put some out of business but if we tried too much then we where out of business. I am glad things are better for now. we could be heading for tough time with the way cast have gone through the roof.

Another thing I was able to use when something failed just out of warranty, was a service allowance. The bill was split three ways: Dealer 1/3, The company 1/3 and the customer 1/3.

I am sure that most dealers and companies try to do their best. I just wanted many on here to realize that warranty work is not gravy work most of the time.

Had one older fellow that just could not figure out why we never where that thrilled to see him. His statement quote " I bring you all of my warranty work. No matter where I buy it from." He really thought that he was helping us out by bring us his warranty work. He was equating it to regular shop work. We did it and I finally started showing him what the true costs and credits where. He then started doing the little stuff himself.

I find it amazing that many farmers have no tools while the equipment is under warranty but have a full shop the second it starts to cost them money.

Have a good day ALL!!!!

(quoted from post at 00:45:07 06/29/11) In my earlier posting I just wanted the poeple on here to think about what happens when they have warranty work done. I want everyone to be successfully in their businesses. Whether it is the guy part time farming or the small dealership that is trying to stay a float. I dislike the big multi store dealerships. They will just help kill off that many more of our small towns/businesses. I wanted everyone to think about how their actions affect the ones they are dealing with. They want the person selling to them to treat them fairly and honestly. The person selling has the right to want the same.

I only used John Deere as an example because I am the most familiar with how it works clear through the dealer getting paid. I do work for a local Ford/New Holland dealer. He has much the same policies with them as the dealers did with John Deere.

I saw the actual payment credits that the dealer received. I did the settlements at the last two dealers I worked for. I actually did the paper/computer work to get the dealership paid or the dealer to pay John Deere.

What started me off on this is that I see many on here that are searching for the cheapest deal all of the time. Then complain that the local guy will not warranty what they bought ten states away.

On another post here a guy was mad at his local dealer when the dealer told him straight up that if he bought it some where else that they would do the warranty work BUT after their customers where taken care of. The dealer was honest about it but the guy was mad at him.

As to those that thought I was whining. I have been blessed in this life. I have been married twice to two very good women, widowed once. I have everything paid for that I own. I have healthy kids and grand children, that is my most valued thing. I can work as little or as much as I want to. I have always tried to help my fellow man out as much as I can. So I am not worried about those that think I was whining. The good man upstairs will get to pass the final judgment on me and that is the one that counts.


BLESS YOU ALL!!!!!!!

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Excellent post! I agree with everything you said.

JDSeller, I'm glad you took my post in the spirit it was meant.

As I said, my experience is on the automotive side, so I realize that the farm equipment/short line side IS different. Pap and Grand-dad sold FMC SideWinder mowers in the late '60's/early '70's, until they pi**ed Pap off by granting a second dealership in the same county. The ONLY warranty problems we ever had was with a BD-90 mower behind a Super M. Apparently, SideWinder thought that folks would buy a 90-inch-wide finish mower in about 1974; the farmers 'round here thought that it should be able to cut stuff as high as the platform on the Super M, and that tall stuff would just make the belts smoke. SideWinder sent a factory engineer out on that one, and he came up with a "repair," but it wasn't a total fix. SideWinder bought that mower back from the man with the Super M, and we sold him a 6x6 instead...and he was a lot happier in the end.

Well, there WAS that one time that ol' Joe Kintner brought in the PTO shaft from his 6x6 mower looking like a pretzel twist. SideWinder bought the FIRST one...On the second one, we discovered that ol' Joe was using grade 8 bolts as shear bolts, and they weren't shearing worth a damn. Joe bought that PTO shaft himself, and we sent him out the door with a small bag of the CORRECT shear bolts, and everyone went home happy that night. That ol' W-9 could really put some torque out, apparently.

And at the Farmall garage, Pap and Grand-dad went by the I&T flat-rate manual, not the IH factory flat-rate manual. Don't know that I ever saw an IH flat-rate manual when I was growing up around the shop. Pap and Grand-dad tried to discourage me from going into the biz, but I had too many years behind the parts counter [10 years experience by the time I was 18], and I just couldn't stay away. BUT the automotive side paid a lot better, back in the '70's and '80's at least.