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Hybrid car question(s)

G

Gun guru

Well-known Member
I have to know about something.

The Hybrid cars get better mileage but....what does the electricity cost to plug it in when the car/truck is in the garage? 110vac plug I am told.

For example the Ford Escape has a hybrid model. they boast 34mpg. But the 4cyl. engine gets 28mpg and I know this true cause I have one. But for that 6mpg better fuel economy is it really worth the extra money for the hybrid? I would think that a diesel motor would get 34mpg and cost the same. I dont know of anyone that has a hybrid car/truck.

I am just curious about this. I just doesnt add up for me.
 
(quoted from post at 14:12:48 06/01/11) I have to know about something.

The Hybrid cars get better mileage but....what does the electricity cost to plug it in when the car/truck is in the garage? 110vac plug I am told.

For example the Ford Escape has a hybrid model. they boast 34mpg. But the 4cyl. engine gets 28mpg and I know this true cause I have one. But for that 6mpg better fuel economy is it really worth the extra money for the hybrid? I would think that a diesel motor would get 34mpg and cost the same. I dont know of anyone that has a hybrid car/truck.

I am just curious about this. I just doesnt add up for me.
Click to expand...

Before you buy ANY hybrid car, check the price of replacement batteries. From what little I've heard, that one little thing will make you change your mind very quickly.
 
What Rusty Farmall says is true. I asked about the Escape when they first came out and was told battery replacment every 50,000 miles.

As to fuel savings, it depends on how you drive. Hybirds get there economy by using their electric motor as a regenertive brake when they stop. The motor works as a generator, recharging the batteries. So if you do a lot of start stop driving, you will get good economy. If you drive long trips on interstate highways with minimal stopping, then you will get about the same fuel economy as a non hybird Escape.
 
One thing the salesman didn't tell you--the gas engine runs when the car is driven more then about 40 mph because the battery drain is so severe.
BTW what's so good about 28 mpg? I have a '94 Honda with a 4 cylinder engine gets 33 mpg and I paid $2k for it 5 years ago. Think I'm doing better then the hybrid.

Your question about the cost of electricity to recharge--If you have one compare your bills from before you bought it with the bills after.
 
In stop-and-go city driving or very hilly areas they might be feasible, because of the regenerative braking. I don't think most hybrids can be plugged in, the engine charges the battery. The Chevy Volt is considered an electric car even though it also has a gas engine for charging but it can be plugged in and driven a considerable distance without the engine starting.
 
We own a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Let me start by saying that there are lots of misconceptions about hybrids.

Most hybrids (including ours) does not plug in. Ever.
Hybrids increase their fuel economy through the use of regenerative power. This includes braking, coasting and going down hills. The vehicle uses electric power during acceleration as well as sometimes when coasting. Since the motor has instant torque (think 2HP electric = 5HP engine) it allows for less fuel to be required when pulling away from a stop as well as when passing.

The batteries in these vehicles are designed to last the life of the vehicle. No manufacturer has ever posted a life expectancy. Any concrete numbers you hear are just guesses.

There are two schools of though that you can use when designing a hybrid. One is to maximize mileage. This is done in vehicles like the Prius. Acceleration and top speed are decreased in order to minimize the amount of fuel used. The other is to leave the acceleration properties alone and have equal acceleration, top speed etc. to the standard model. This is the case of the HiHy. We essentially have V6 power and I4 fuel economy.

Finally, a common misconception about hybrids is that people buy them solely for the improved fuel economy and thereby monetary savings. This is not always true. In my case the mileage is nice but the real reason we picked they hybrid was to decrease our carbon footprint since we are frufru abundant tree hugging scum. For us it isn't really about the money at all. (We also pay more for our electric service because we pay a surcharge to pay the extra costs of renewable power)

P.S. Russ is correct. We get about 25mpg on average and 29mpg in the city.
 
Question for a tree hugger, do trees really remove carbon from the air faster than they put it back?

Answer: NO TREES ARE CARBON NEUTRAL. When a tree dies and decays it puts all the carbon back in the air.

I wonder how much extra carbon is put into the air to make hybrid battries and solar cells?

BTW, I'm no longer a tree hugger after trees recently fell on two of my houses. I'm cutting all my trees down so they can't fall on my buildings again.
 
My chevy lumina gets 29 around home.When we first got it we took a trip to tnn from ohio and got 32 on interstate.This milage has been around for 20 years,why spend the money on a hybrid.
 
And if you want to move up to some luxury, I've got a '98 Buick Park Avenue that gets 29 on the Interstate, 24 around town, and does it in style. Why would I want to cram myself in a roller skate car?
 
You don't plug in Hybrids. You do plug in straight electic cars, and somewhere I recall about a buck to recharge it.
 
Hello gun guru,
Diesel engines are more efficient then a gas engine, but they initially cost more.
VW diesels among others have been running around Europe for decades. Fuel has been and still is more expensive then the here in the States. They do(usually) last a lot longer ,
(the diesels). I don't know why there aren't that many diesel cars here in the States.
With the electronics and high fuel pressures of today's diesels, they burn as clean as a gas engine.
Guido.
 
The definition of electric and hybrid cars is sometimes blurred.
If the vehicle has batteries for assist and no utility battery charging ability. There are jobbers who sell AC charging systems. There is mileage to gain there.
A advicates of purely electric vehicles don't say much about cold or hot weather operation. Limited driving range. Battery pack replacement costs. Or recharge times with a 30 amp 240V supply, let alone a scrawny 15amp 120V supply.
Good idea but we do't have Star Trek technology. Nor the ability to break the laws of physics.
 
The thing to do with trees is to harvest them just before they die and burn them to heat your home. The carbon comes out the chimney just as if you were burning gas or oil, maybe a little more. I think that's about a carbon neutral a you can be.
 

I am surprised to learn that trees are carbon neutral, at best I believe this is misleading...? If one burns the wood the carbon is released back into the atmosphere however, if left alone the carbon becomes sequestered in the soil. Coal is sequestered carbon from trees/vegetation.
 
My dream is a VW Jetta tdi diesel. They have quite a following with several web forums devoted to them. One can get 60 mpg with modest driving and no mods. Sure the fuel is a little more but then, there's no voodoo hybrid/battery technology to deal with.
 
The hybrid which recharges it's battery using the gasoline engine and the PLUG IN hybrid that can either recharge the battery by plugging it in or using the engine are different animals.

A hybrid car with an Atkinson cycle gas engine will make considerably better part throttle mpg than an ordinary car on a long steady speed drive as well as in stop and go town driving.

The Atkinson cycle gas engine makes great cruising mpg, but can not make as much wide open throttle power as a similar size conventional gas engine, thats where the battery powered electric motor comes in. The electric assist is there to help accelerate, merg, pass like a car with a much larger engine.
It also allows the gas engine to shut off and consume no fuel when coasting or stopped at a light.
Add to that the energy saved by regenerative braking, which slows the car by recharging the battery instead of wasting it as heat from the brakes.

I have a 2010 Toyota Prius hybrid, it averages slightly better than 50 mpg at the highway speed limit.
It weighs 3300 pounds, seats five 6ft+ people in comfort, and being a hatchback, with folding rear seats, has lots of cargo room.

In spite of the 3300 pound weight, it goes 0-60 in 9 seconds and runs 115 mpg if you care to do it. It has been totally trouble free, the only service has been to change the synthetic engine oil every 10,000 miles. That oil still has the color of honey at 10,000 miles.

Toyota guarntees the hybrid system including the battery for 100,000 - 150,000 miles, depending on which state you live in.

No one knows how long that NiMH hybrid battery will last, but there is a taxi co in Canada running a fleet of Prius taxi's. They have yet to have a hybrid battery fail with between 200,000-300,000 miles on the cars in taxi service which beats the hybrid system hard.

I normally get a bit better than 50 mpg average on public roads, but last summer we drove the 35 mile loop through TR state park, where you do a lot of stop and go driving and never exceed 35 mph, The Prius made a bit better than 90 mpg on that slow loop through the park.

Atleast so far (2 years), it is the best driving and most reliable car I have owned.
Only car I have owned where you can drive it all day without getting stiff sore tired. The seats and controls are just right.
 
Wh get a hybrid? I just got a 2000 firebird with the ws6 package. Even with the ls1 the gearing is so good that I've been getting 26 mpg and its rated for higher. The point is almost any car can be fuel efficient it just depends how you drive it really. Unless you have a truck thats geared real low, then you have to do what I did and get a car with better gas mileage lol
 
(quoted from post at 21:05:01 06/01/11) Wh get a hybrid? I just got a 2000 firebird with the ws6 package. Even with the ls1 the gearing is so good that I've been getting 26 mpg and its rated for higher. The point is almost any car can be fuel efficient it just depends how you drive it really. Unless you have a truck thats geared real low, then you have to do what I did and get a car with better gas mileage lol
Click to expand...

Tyler can that firebird seat 7 legally and pull my trailer with 2 garden tractors around?
 
(quoted from post at 18:39:11 06/01/11) That is a lot of money to just feel good and make absolutly zero difference in the world.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but it is a lot of [i:095ec8d76d][b:095ec8d76d]my[/b:095ec8d76d][/i:095ec8d76d] money.

If that makes me a fool then I guess you are entitled to that opinion. However, since this is a website devoted to people who pour thousands of dollars and countless hours into the restoration of obsolete machines worth very little in comparison to their costs and use lets not start throwing the stones of good fiscal decision making. Too many glass houses around for that.
 
The question is this: How long do you have to keep that hybrid before the you make up for the extra cost saving those 6-8 mpgs? On the face of it, of you are like me and do your own maintenence and get lotsa years/miles out of a car ("95 Taurus has 189000 and still going strong at 28-30 miles to the gallon, and "99 Ranger with 105000 that I would go cross country in tomorrow) you MAY eventually see some savings down the road. BUT! a friend has been driving a Prius for 4 years now (very reliable, drives great, gets a couple more MPGs than my Taurus but cost alot more too) but now he is looking at replacing the batteries within a year @ about $7500...a fact that he was not made aware of at purchase. At that rate he will never make up the extra cost of a hybrid.
Bottom line is that there really is NO alternative fuel technology that is really viable...yeah the external_link-Gore crew would like or will eventually try to force you to go green, but if relieving the fossil fuel situation doesnt also relieve your own wallet then what is the advantage? I am not that altruistic: pay more out of my income because a bunch of turds in power who A)don"t pay their own fuel bills, and B) have never had to worry where the money to do so wouold come from if they did tell you you should pay for this "green technology"!
Case in point: when Ford was developing their CVT transmission they were denied federal developement funds as it wasn"t for "alternative fuel" vehicle developement, but it does increase the MPG of gas a vehicle gets...it didn"t fit the "greenie" agenda so "NOPE!" Another case in point: when GM engineers started to develope the Prius technology and adapt it to their 1/2 and 3/4 trucks, the program was stymied as that is not the type of vehicle good socialist peseants are supposed to be seen driving around in. So essentially we won"t alllow you to make great leaps in truck/suv MPG, just keep selling the current models, and do nothing to get gas prices down and hopefully the peseants will eventually not be able to afford them.
Problem is if you look at what kept Chrysler vialble even after the bailout it was their truck line, what is GM"s best selling line? Where would Ford be without their truck line?
America has reached a point wher a great majority of it"s politicos are Urban or Suburban now and just do not understand American mentality: the desire and often the need to have trucks to use and 4wd, and guns, and hunting...past Presidents even the Peanut Brain, or I mean Farmer and Bubba still understood this, and as UnAmerican as they tried to be, their roots were still American...they understood American psyche, that all changed 3 years ago.
IF and that is a BIG "IF", I were on the market for a new vehicle, (not running out and trading just to fulfill my "green need", and a manufacturer had 2 models that were comparitively priced, one Hybrid or alt. fuel and one not...and IF they were able to prove to me that within 2-3 years I would see the savings and be able to maintain that savings without huge cash outlays to replace batteries, or flux capacitors or whatever then I would buy one...not until!
BTW that 10% Ethanol gas you are being forced to buy at the pumps is slowly killing your engine and degrading your MPG, AND it costs more to produce than the gas they mix it with...but it is the Green thing to do I guess!
 
(quoted from post at 23:08:17 06/01/11) The question is this: How long do you have to keep that hybrid before the you make up for the extra cost saving those 6-8 mpgs? On the face of it, of you are like me and do your own maintenence and get lotsa years/miles out of a car ("95 Taurus has 189000 and still going strong at 28-30 miles to the gallon, and "99 Ranger with 105000 that I would go cross country in tomorrow) you MAY eventually see some savings down the road. BUT! a friend has been driving a Prius for 4 years now (very reliable, drives great, gets a couple more MPGs than my Taurus but cost alot more too) but now he is looking at replacing the batteries within a year @ about $7500...a fact that he was not made aware of at purchase. At that rate he will never make up the extra cost of a hybrid.
Bottom line is that there really is NO alternative fuel technology that is really viable...yeah the external_link-Gore crew would like or will eventually try to force you to go green, but if relieving the fossil fuel situation doesnt also relieve your own wallet then what is the advantage? I am not that altruistic: pay more out of my income because a bunch of turds in power who A)don"t pay their own fuel bills, and B) have never had to worry where the money to do so wouold come from if they did tell you you should pay for this "green technology"!
Case in point: when Ford was developing their CVT transmission they were denied federal developement funds as it wasn"t for "alternative fuel" vehicle developement, but it does increase the MPG of gas a vehicle gets...it didn"t fit the "greenie" agenda so "NOPE!" Another case in point: when GM engineers started to develope the Prius technology and adapt it to their 1/2 and 3/4 trucks, the program was stymied as that is not the type of vehicle good socialist peseants are supposed to be seen driving around in. So essentially we won"t alllow you to make great leaps in truck/suv MPG, just keep selling the current models, and do nothing to get gas prices down and hopefully the peseants will eventually not be able to afford them.
Problem is if you look at what kept Chrysler vialble even after the bailout it was their truck line, what is GM"s best selling line? Where would Ford be without their truck line?
America has reached a point wher a great majority of it"s politicos are Urban or Suburban now and just do not understand American mentality: the desire and often the need to have trucks to use and 4wd, and guns, and hunting...past Presidents even the Peanut Brain, or I mean Farmer and Bubba still understood this, and as UnAmerican as they tried to be, their roots were still American...they understood American psyche, that all changed 3 years ago.
IF and that is a BIG "IF", I were on the market for a new vehicle, (not running out and trading just to fulfill my "green need", and a manufacturer had 2 models that were comparitively priced, one Hybrid or alt. fuel and one not...and IF they were able to prove to me that within 2-3 years I would see the savings and be able to maintain that savings without huge cash outlays to replace batteries, or flux capacitors or whatever then I would buy one...not until!
BTW that 10% Ethanol gas you are being forced to buy at the pumps is slowly killing your engine and degrading your MPG, AND it costs more to produce than the gas they mix it with...but it is the Green thing to do I guess!
Click to expand...

I'm not going to touch most of this other than to point out that you do realize that the overwhelming majority of the residents of the US live in those suburban and urban areas right? I would make the argument that it might be you out of touch with "American mentality."

Don't take my word for it though:
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census_issues/metropolitan_planning/cps2k.cfm
 
Actually they get worse mileage if you drive then a distance over their battery about 40 to 50 miles.
I wouldn't get one now you can get cheaper cars that get much better gas mileage. Shop around.
Walt
 
If trees today were not carbon neurtal, this planet wood be miles deep in wood. No more coal is being made. Wood decays, termites eat it, people burn it, leafs decay, branches fall off and all these things return the carbon back to the air. Experts say trees are carbon neutral. Tree huggers however get a warm and fuzzy feeling planting them thinking they are doing the planet good.
 
(quoted from post at 00:21:12 06/02/11) Actually they get worse mileage if you drive then a distance over their battery about 40 to 50 miles.
I wouldn't get one now you can get cheaper cars that get much better gas mileage. Shop around.
Walt
Click to expand...

Which do you own?
 
my take on these is that no the milage doesnt make sence,neither does the replacement cost/ reliability issues, especially if you live out here where i do, heck if i want a take out breakfast, its a 30 mile round trip. the sellig point for hybrids is that there "trying" to develop a vehicle that runs on something other than gas, not a new idea at all, as railroad locomotives have been sucessfully doing that since the late 1940's, or early 1950's BUT, locomotives do it different, they dont use batteries to help the engine pull the load, they use a engine to run a generater, which provides the electricity to power the wheel motors on the locomotive, anybody who has seen the diesel engine inside a locomotive would be taken back by the sheer size of the thing, but the engine itself does not have the power to pull the load the locomotive has to move, so the engine just provides the power to run the generater,which then powers individual wheel motors, if auto makers could adopt that idea for a change, [ espically since the railroaders have worked out all the kinks over the last 60 + years...] imagine a small say 2 cylinder diesel engine driving a generater which then drives individual wheel motors, we have, probably bumping 60 and more mpg, all wheel drive, with traction control, less emmissions due to the engines small size, adaptable to any size vehicle just by increasing or decreasing the units size, and still just 1 regular battery to start the diesel engine, now if they could just put it in a "manly looking" car ... what do y'all think?
 
On a little different note----when will America, the EPA, etc. start allowing in cars that don't meet current safety standards, or will they ever?

Perhaps we should demand exceptions to the rules for cars like the $600, 258 mpg VW that China has.

If cars were getting 258 mpg would we really need to worry so much about air quality due to emissions?
258 mpg VW.
 
(quoted from post at 10:06:22 06/02/11) On a little different note----when will America, the EPA, etc. start allowing in cars that don't meet current safety standards, or will they ever?

Perhaps we should demand exceptions to the rules for cars like the $600, 258 mpg VW that China has.

If cars were getting 258 mpg would we really need to worry so much about air quality due to emissions?
258 mpg VW.
Click to expand...

http://www.energyboom.com/rumors-and-reality-about-volkswagens-258-mpg-car
So much for my hybrid being impracticle.
 
I agree on the terminology confusion.
I've heard Hybrids being defined as combination gas and electric, regenerative recharge for the batteries, runs off batteries when it can, then engine kicks in and drives the car. Prius and many others.

Electric- batteries only, no engine. Nissan something or other.

???- Primarily electric, plug in to recharge, engine kicks in to charge the batteries only, not drive the car. Chevy Volt.

The Volt makes the most sense to me- 10 mile (roundtrip), most days that's it. But occasional trips of up to 100 miles. Problem is, I can't get one for $3,000 like I'm accustomed to paying. Paid $2,500 for present '98 Buick Park Avenue w/109,000 miles (got a deal due to undiagnosed electrical problem, which turned out to be a blown fuse). Gets 30 MPG highway, 24 city, it'll last me 5 years- then get another one. Can't beat it with a stick.
 
(quoted from post at 10:40:57 06/02/11)
(quoted from post at 10:06:22 06/02/11) On a little different note----when will America, the EPA, etc. start allowing in cars that don't meet current safety standards, or will they ever?

Perhaps we should demand exceptions to the rules for cars like the $600, 258 mpg VW that China has.

If cars were getting 258 mpg would we really need to worry so much about air quality due to emissions?
258 mpg VW.
Click to expand...

http://www.energyboom.com/rumors-and-reality-about-volkswagens-258-mpg-car
So much for my hybrid being impracticle.
Click to expand...

Why is this car not more widely known?

My take........it is definitely possible to make higher MPG vehicles but it is not worth it to the auto manufacturers to do so. Seems really funny to me that for the last 20-30 years there have been some cars with really good mileage and some with really poor mileage. Now, all of a sudden all of the major auto makers just in the last 5 years have come up with cars that will get over 40MPG..........what changed in the last 5 years in automotive technology? Why can't they make ALL of their vehicles more efficient? Why is it that there are naturally aspirated cars that no longer exist that got better gas mileage than any hybrid?
I think we're all being fed a line by the auto makers and by big oil! Supply, demand, MPG, all of that is controlled to extract the most $$ from our pockets!!! just my $0.02
 
I just bought a 2000 Hyundia Accent 4 cylinder 5 speed. Last weekend took it on a road trip, got 42.8 MPG. Rode a lot better than I expected. Got 36.2 MPG driving to work. Cost me $1300.00. Will have it paid for with gas savings in 11 weeks.
 
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