How to break up a hay bail????????

I've got a big commercial farming operation I do a good bit of work for. Due to the way their operation is spread out they often haul loads of wheat straw relatively long distances to get them back to the barn. From what I understand hauling 'standard' sized bails they can get x amount on each load but running another full layer would make them overheight. As a result they are losing space at the top because they can't run that 'extra' layer. Now if they haul larger sized bails they can actually get more on each load without being overheight because the larger bails stack higher without going overheight.....Being able to bail using the larger bailer as well as getting more on each load makes things go alot faster for them and as we all know 'time is money' and they are looking to speed things up as much as possible.

They have already played around with the idea themselves and have a contaption to break down the larger bails in order to rebail them in the smaller size. Problem is it doesn't work exactly like they want and they've asked me to help them get it dialed in. The biggest problem is getting the bailed material to break up and 'fluff up' enough to be able be properly rebailed without alot of clumps. They tell me that the good, dry stuff isn't bad but if there is even a little moisture in the bail it tends to clump and their contraption can't get the clumps broken up. The forman and I have batted around a few ideas on what we need to change, add, or whatever to what they already have to make it fluff the clumps but haven't had time yet to get anything done.

I'll tell you right off I can work on anything but I'm not a farmer and definately not schooled on the fine art of bailing, or in this case debailing. So, my question. Given the same problem what would ya'll suggest doing to get a large bail broken down and 'fluffed' up enough to rebail without clumps??? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Can't imagine rebaling would save more time and money than making an extra trip or two to get all the small bales home.

They would be better off buying another trailer, or wagon or whatever they are hauling on and hiring another person or two to bale them small the first time.

Just my opinion.

What they're wanting to do doesn't make sense..........probably because I don't understand. Are these small square bales, LARGE rectangular bales or round bales?

It certianly does not sound like a good idea, and this does not answer your question. But a different low slung trailer would be a one time investment, or pulling a pup behind???

The rebailing sounds like more imput than you could ever push a pencil to and make sence. I have limited knowledge no doubt, so that is all it is worth.

Perhaps someone can answer your question, but I'm thinking everyone is on the same page when it comes to making good sence to do so.

If I was to try it, I would probably be thinking a manure spreader in fromt of the feeder in order to tear up the chunks, and running the RPMs to limit how much it tears them up.

Yep. Argibiz thinking at its best. Someone with a masters degree in bean counting came up with that one. Ask the big shots " which weighs more? 2000 pound of hay- or one English ton of hay"? How in the aeronautical whatever do they think this is going to change anything? I'll tell ya one thing that will change, a 13 foot tall load will not go under a 12foot 6 inch railroad overpass, but it will be fun to see!! Better you look for another job, this gang won't be around much longer....

Having read the responses so far here's a bit more info. One the bales they want to break up are 4x4x8 rectangular bales. The size they want to rebale to is 14x18xXX, or possibly even smaller for some of the nich markets that they have been looking into also. The reason they want to do this, instead of buying new equipment, is that doing so would be extreemly cost prohibitive given the amount of equipment involved in their operation. I don't know what all they would be replacing to do this but I imagine the cost to them would most likely be in the million dollar plus range. Their thought is why spend all this money on new equipment when spending a fraction of that on this setup would actually start making them money. I don't understand all the where fores and where alls, etc in this deal, and their profit margines aren't my concern (((as long as I get paid...))) but from my understanding they have ran the numbers and it will work out great if we can get get things worked out. In fact the first time they ran the setup, as is, it was doing the job but they were having to use a bit more of manual labor to break up the clumps then they wanted to. If I can get it working smoother/better and eleminate the need for the manual labor then it'll be even more icing on the cake for them. Not to mention if they wanted to explore the nich markets for the small bales then all they would have to buy to get into that would be a bailer to do the size bail they wanted and not have to worry about any other 'properly sized' equipment to support it.

Beyond that I don't know anymore than what I have told so far. When things get rolling on this project I'll know more about exactly what's happening and can ask what I hope are more 'intellengent', 'informed' questions. Til then, Thanks again for any advice or suggestions ya'll can offer. Wayne

I think he is talking about breaking up large square bales and re-baling them into small square bales. Small square bales will bring much more than large square bales to the horse people.

There are several commercial machines that do what you are trying to do. They cost fifty grand or more, plus you provide the small square baler to attach them too. A local man here made one years ago. He was re-baling round bales. He had the same clumping problem. He had a conveyor that the large bale set on The conveyor pushed the bale into a set of beaters, like a manure spreader. They hay dropped on to a wide chain conveyer and that took the hay up about four feet. Then droped it into another set of beaters. They turned at different speeds and that broke the clumps up. The they hay fell onto a final conveyor that end up droping the hay into the pickup of JD 336 square baler. He used it for many years. His health failed and the market changed. I think he sold it to someone back east.

Yes, they make a machine that does that. It is called a bale processor. It lays the bale out in a windrow for the cows to eat but could easily be re-baled.
One example

Feed value of alfalfa is in the small leafs. the more you handle/ abuse it , the more leafs you knock off, the less feed value. they would be better off just investing in a lower slung trailer.

I think I'd abandon the big sq. baler for a rd baler. The rd bales could be unrolled with a simple bale un-roller or rd bale processor and baled quite easily with no clumps. The hay in a rd bale would more resemble hay in a windrow with no flakes/blocks than the large sq bale. My neighbor's been doing this for years.

Larsen Farms in Idaho used to compress large square bales to make them smaller so they could get more tonnage on a rail car. Never saw one up close but the twine was removed sometime during the process and the new compressed bales were held together with fairly heavy wire. Jim

This 'gang' has been around for a long time and is one of the largest commercial operations in the southeast. They have their hands in everything from beef cattle, to chicken houses, to hay, to wheat straw, to pine straw, and probably other things I'm not even aware of yet as they have properties strung out all over the state.

I read the post about getting lower machines to haul the bales and that makes would make sense in most applications. The thing is these guys also haul long distance on flatbed trailers, as well as in enclosed trailers. Both are made to standard sizes and heights that they can't control. That said think how much extra material you could get on a 40 x 8 foot load on trailer if you could add even 12 inches to the entire top of the load. Like I said earlier I'm not a baling or hauling guru by any means but I do know that if you can bale the material faster in the big bales and haul more in the big bales, and then easily and cheaply break it down into smaller bales that are worth more, then it stands to reason that profits will go up. Like I said they have tried it already and have a proof of concept, now all that needs to be done is to tweek the origional idea to make it even better and more profitable.

Thanks, that's the kind of info I was looking for. As it stands they have a rotor turning against the big bale to do the initial breakup and it then falls onto a conveyor. Then they had another rotor like the first turning against the flow to break it up. Personally I'm thinking something along the lines of having two rotors with tines turning in such a manner that one will pick up and the material and the other will be timed to where it's tines go between those of the first to knowck it back down onto the conveyor. I figure this way any clumps will get broken up when the tines mesh together, and the regular action of the tines picking the unclumped material up will fluff it enough. The biggest thing is to get it done without breaking up the material too much as it ultimately sold to a major retailer and by my understanding they have certain specifications that have to be met for them to accept it.

Like I said it can be a really profitable thing for this outfit, if we can get it to work without having to have all the extra manual labor to break up the clumps that are escaping the setup they have now.

Try to find a John Deere model 10 High density baler.

Thanks for the link. This would definately break up a bale but the problem is this thing also cuts up the material and that's something they don't want to do because it would throw it 'out of spec' for the end user. Ideally all they want to do is break it up, fluff it up, and be able to rebale it in as close to the same condition it was straight from the field.

(quoted from post at 21:01:58 05/30/11)
Ideally all they want to do is break it up, fluff it up, and be able to rebale it in as close to the same condition it was straight from the field.

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That's why I suggested rd baling the hay instead of big sq bales as it will unroll evenly if rd bale is revolved in the correct direction. I've done this on a limited basis just by unrolling rd bale on the ground with the frt tire of the tractor and then sq baling.

Here's a news clip & link "It took Georgia hay farmer Whipple Simpson six years to develop and patent his “T”s E-Z Unroller. But now he’s shipping the device to as far away as Australia". http://farmindustrynews.com/hay/round-bale-unroller www.simpsonunroller.com.