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disposable farmers

O

old fashioned farmer

Member
Howdy all,

Anyone else here upset by the intentional flooding of farms and small towns down in the South? It aggravates me that people who shouldn't have to worry about flooding, who built their homes in places that were okay (for the most part) to build have to sacrifice everything for people who choose to live in a city that was idiotically built below sea level. Just burns me up. Farmers and country folks are disposable I guess. I say if you make your bed you ought to have to sleep in it. Would have been different if the folks up stream had had a choice because I know a lot of country folks would give the shirt off their back to help and maybe even sacrifice like this for the folks downstream. But there was no choice here, just a "Sorry, you're not as important as the city people. Tough luck." What do you all think? God bless.

--old fashioned farmer
 
I agree with you, in todays world it doesn"t
have to be politically correct or morally
right to make a decision.
 
I agree 100%!!! Thankfully, where I am located in SW ohio, I should never have to worry about flooding on the level these people are dealing with.

It is not right to sacrifice the farmers land to save those in the city(s), IMO. What makes the cities more imortant?????

Who has the power to make these decisions??? Seems socialist to me.....

If I were one of those farmers, you can bet there will be a lawsuit!!! Is the GOVT going to make right on damages to the people and buisnesses being sacrificed??? OR more rightly, are the people/buisnesses being saved from the flood going to make it right with those who are being sacrificed????
 
It is a shame that they just don"t flush New Orleans but, the truth is that everyone who lives in the flood plain is notified annually by Louisiana state law about the possibility of opening the spill-way. In addition, all licensced real estate people are required to disclose that information to any and all potential buyers. Eveyone who lives there knows the risks. I was born and raised in the flood plain and there is excellent cow country through out but I came to North louisiana in the 70"s because at the time, land was super cheap. My Dad lost roughly half of his 320 acres to some of the corp of engineers projects in the late 60"s, they took your land back than and paid what they wanted to. The majority of the people who live there are smart, tough and resourceful. I well remember 1973, the last time they let it rip, thats when hurricane agnes made 2 or 3 turns in the gulf of mexico and dropped roughly 35 inches of rain in 2 days.
 
Your topic will bring on a debate I'm guessing but here is the other side of the coin. Don't know about further south but I understand that in Missouri those who built and farmed in the flood plain behind the levees that were built years ago knew of the possibilities. Did they or those before them receive any government payments when that area was designated a flood plain? The decision to blow a levee would be an extremely hard one to make I'm sure. If and I emphasize IF the above is true and in dire circumstances they knew levees could be breached then I don't think they have any recourse, as sad as it is for all involved. The decision must be based on which is the lesser of two evils and the population of people will usually win out.
 
The irony of this thread is, they DID NOT blow the levee's to protect New Orleans. They were blown open to save CAIRO ILLINOIS from being inundated by Miss River backwaters. Cairo is NOT below sea level by the way. The flood gates opened just this past weekend WILL effect New Orleans.

It's most helpful in making your case if you use actual facts, NOT rumors and "stories".
 
And all those farmers knew they were in the flood plain too. The news also said the people in those areas were on a continuous compensation for possible damagers so they knew they would lose sometime.
 
If it wasn't for the levees, those farms wouldn't exist in the first place. What the Corps of Engineers giveth, the Corps taketh away.
 
Why, I believe the city folks will think their food still comes from factorys. Oh... & their landlord hollers at them for having too many cats & dogs but, the farmer can have all of the pet cows he wants cuz' the straw that grows behind the barns is free.

Man-oh-man, it makes my head hurt!

Mike
 
It MIGHT "exist" but it would be under water in something like 7 out of 10 years. This is the FIRST time since the levee system was built where it had to be breached. That levee system was built by WPA in the mid and late 1930's.

Isn't it odd that almost ALL the whining is from people who live hundreds, if not thousands of miles from the flooding, and those who've been displaced by the flooding are taking it rather well all facts considered.
 
The 'Real Farmers' that choose to live in the flood plain accept the fact every so often the River floods. Every farmer in the world looks at a gambler in the mirror every morning.
They don't lose their land. They lose this year’s crop and gain an inch of silt. What I hate to see is all that water going south when it's so badly needed in west Taxus and Oklahoma
As for the people who choose to just live there and complain I don't have much sympathy.

Sam#3, A hi-lander and an un-farmer for several reasons but I do know where my groceries are made.
Thanks Fellows!
 
Are you referring to Louisiana? Because the majority of the land that is in jeapordy today did not historically flood, the Mississippi river would run out of its banks and travel down old river courses (which are still visable if you know where to look) and flood the marshes in the lower parishes bringing silt and dirt to replenish what was lost to the gulfs erosion, since the corp of engineers ''fixed'' the natural flow of water Louisiana has lost tens of thousands of acres of marsh and other land, the envioromentalists and DImwitocrats blame all of this on the oil industry. You won't find many corp of engineer cheerleaders in Louisiana.
 
My first gut reaction is "No the gevernment shouldn't do that to farmers". But when I think about it it absolutely is the best thing to do for everone including those farmers.

This is a fourty year flood! Without the dikes and levies that farm land would already be flooded by now and it would have been flooded a lot more times over the years too. The dikes and levies protect those fields from flooding too and those farmers profit from it too. Without the dikes that land may have flooded five or ten years out of the last fourty instead of just this once.

Think of it as minimizing the risk to life and minimizing property damaage. Would you rather have a flood or tornado take out your home and buildings or one of your corn fields? Likewise, it's safer and less expensive to save the towns and cities and flood a few more fields.

Many of those farmers knew the risks and already have flood insurance, plus they will probably qualify for enough state and federal repayments that they will come out ahead on the deal.

Would you rather have your tax dollars spent on replacing one years profits on some farm land or spend 100 times as much rebuilding all those homes and businesses in the towns and cities?

Opening those dikes to save the towns is definetly the right thing to do.
 

The people who live in the Morganza floodway basin are sent a letter every year from the corps of engineers warning that the spillway could be opened and flooding would result. It's their choice to gamble on being flooded. I bet some of them are feeling like idiots right about now. That feeling is justified I might add.
 
I guess because they are opening levees in long protected areas, yes, this sucks, but there are other folks who are farming flood plains, at the risk of crop loss. when my mother worked these floods in the 70'90's, with the red cross, the big wheels and fema, were thinking this is old hat, same furniture and supplies to the same people in the same waterlogged house on abd on. the corps of engineers was buying the properties and finding new digs -uphill. Some people would pocket the money, or rent out the high and dry place, and move back next to the river. But next flood, no help. This was about when a flood drowned a million pigs or whatever, a real sickening mess. the land was suppose to be for crops and open pasture, not homes or barns that could trap livestock. But those places- I don't think, had levees. If you were told your place was safe, and would be if not sabatoged, yeah, let the city slickers eat imported food, and give you all new everything, let the insurance companies fight it out. that is the real deal huh? Country property 'value' compare to flood city damage costs. If this was Florida hurricanes, the city wouldn't get damage claims a second time... funny too, reserviors all up the Missuori river are suppose to be for flood control and barge clearance... that's why none of it can be used for irrigation, so much for that huh? Adds insult to injury....
 
The cities were also built in the flood plain. But they're more important than the farmers who built in the flood plain, eh?
 
Better get up to date on that area the Govt paid many yrs ago for that ground so they could flood it if the need came about and here it is.
 
Thirteen yrs back the Ohio R flooded and FEMA (gov't) came in and offered to buy the house of neighbor in floodplain on condition they move out of flood plain and abandon house. Neighbor took them up on offer and built new house out of the deal. Where did FEMA get that money. Where did WPA and Army Corps Engineers get their money to build levees in first place. Did anyone benefit for those levees being in place for forty yrs w/o flooding? sws55 makes good points in his post.
 
The flooding also brings silt that makes that land among the most fertile in the world. Another reason that people farm that land even though they will lose a crop every so often.
 
I agree. If your going to open the flood gates, then open them and leave them open forever and let the chips fall where they may.
 
I could never understand all these dimwits building on a flood plain. Then crying when the house and barn are up to the door handles in water.
Can you say STUPID.
 
That's a little drastic.....Stupid? Not so much. We ALL live in some sort of "harms way"....With-in melt down range of a nuke plant? Near an earhquake fault line....? In "tornado alley"..Underground gas lines nearby?(petrol OR natural gas) .. And if the natural disasters don't get ya, the "man made" (ie government made) disasters probably will.

To date, I've seen ONE interview where a Missouri farmer was "whining". The rest want "due compensation" and are lining up for law suits, but that's just SOP these days.

Since this is the FIRST TIME these levees needed to be breached since completed 70+ years ago, this isn't a high risk area, just a high LOSS in an isolated instance.

If you prefer, we can go into why someone would be STUPID for living in a cold climate....How'd that grab ya?
 
The way it was explained to me during the flood of 1993( St. Louis area), when the levees were built in the 30's, was if it can down to cities or farm land the farm land got flooded. It's cheaper for the goverment in the long run. I didn't think it was fair then and still don't now
 
THERE'S GONA BE A LOT OF HUNGRY CITY FOLK THIS COMMING WINTER WHO STILL THINK FARMERS ARE GETTING RICH GROWING FOOD CROPS.
As I posted last week, my thoughts are with those who have been, and are getting intentionally flooded, even if they knew they were in a flood plain. We have covered so much soil with blacktop, concrete and buildings that rain just can't soak in like it used to.
 
Natural flooding brings silt but the flooding from busting the levee's doesnt...It brings swift currents which cuts channels,makes scour holes,takes topsoil,leaves huge sand deposits,leaves lots of debris,etc...

In 1994 I drove thru the Missouri River bottoms after the flood of 1993 which busted lots of levees...None were intentionally busted..The damage was unreal...Lots of this land was never farmed again..Some land was still trying to be reclaimed 3-4 years later...

The MO River tried to make a new channel west of Glasgow,MO..I took lots of pictures there but cant find them..There are holes 80 ft deep there.
 
From what I read the farmers in SE Missouri were compensated $17 per acre in the 1930's..Today some of that land is worth $3,000-4000 per acre...I have driven thru the Birds Point Floodway several times so have seen this area first hand..It grows some great crops..

For all we know the levee at Cairo,Illinois might have held and 133,000 acres of prime MO farm ground wouldnt have had to been flooded...Some will probably never be farmed again..

If I had chosen to farm some of this 133,000 acres I probably wouldnt have built a house in it..I would have built on the other side of the secondary levee which some farmers did..
 
I live in a small town in PA, along the Conemaugh River. Its a tributary to the Allegheny and that is one of two that make the Ohio. Well when Pittsburgh's waters are high guess who gets flooded? They shut the lock and it backs up all through our yard. So we get flooded once and a while. Ever hear of the Johnstown Flood of 1889? That also was near my house. But anyway yeah the little guys gets flooded to save the cities... doesn't seem fair.
 
LAA, I was really referring to the flooding in Illinois. The original post seemed to confuse the damage caused by the intentional levee breach there with the spillway opening in Louisiana. As far as blaming the oil companies for what's been done to the Mississippi, I'd say the petroleum industry is guilty of enough crimes already, so there's no need to make them responsible for the channelization of the Mississippi as well.
 
New Orleans was not "built below sea level". It was built above sea level and sank. New Orleans was built where it is because it's natural that you would build a port city at the mouth of the greatest river in North America. Almost every grain farmer between the Appalachian and Rocky Mountains has directly benefited from both the existence of the port of New Orleans and the work done to make the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers navigable. Those two things make it possible to economically export grain from the plains states to other countries.
 
I have some friends from just over in Missouri. They are all fit to be tied over Bird's Point and I don't blame them one bit. I have been to Cairo IL late at night, looks to me like it could use a good wash'n down. Why put up a levy if it's just go'n to get blow'n up cause there are more votes on the other side. Looks to me like the folks with the highest levy wins.
 
Don't they have to get permission,from the authorities, to build. SO why is it being approved????????

Who is stupid..?
 
If they don t have flood insurance they should not get a dime. We have the same thing up river, every time the river gets up people start worrying where the money will come from. I say pay once and after that tough crap. Washed everything away in 1973 and 1993 and they are still rebuilding within a 1/2 mile of the river.(Flooded 6 miles wide in 93)
 
and many feet deep of sand that will take years to get back into production.It tokk us 8 years after they blew our levee.These farmers will spend 80%of what the farm is worth to get it back
 
You'd hurt a lot more farmers if you took the one action that would do more then anything else to reduce flooding today:

Plug all the tiles. Tell the drainage districts to fill in their ditches.

Let the soil act like a sponge and slowly release the rain waters.

Yes, there's some issues with city storm drains, but my bet is there is far more drained farmland then city streets. Just look at a satellite photo of the midwest.

Plugging the tiles will have big impacts -- later planting, roots that don't grow deep so crops are more susceptible to summer drought, etc. We'd need to clear more forest land, and spend more in fuel and fertilizer to make up production since our yields per acre would drop.

But hey, look! We're not opening up spillways as often!

When you talk about 100 year floods, I think the real question is whether the rainfall is increasing or just the floods are worsening. My money is on the simple answer -- our floods are worsening, the precipitation remains the same. We drain the land faster today then we used to.

Do I have empathy for the farmers in Missouri or Morganza? Sure. Sympathy? No more then I had for folks who lived in the 9th Ward of New Orleans below sea level. (The old section -- French Quarter -- is slightly above sea level and came through Katrina just fine; other areas like the 9th have always been below the water.)

The farmers in Missouri knew they farming in an area protected by levies. Common sense would say when you have a choice between buildings and cropland, you flood the farmland and the fewest buildings.

Down in Louisiana, those folks in the path of the Morganza spillway, for the most part, are only there because the spillway even exists. Between it and the Old River structure up river, the Mississippi is kept flowing towards to New Orleans -- by Congressional mandate. If it wasn't for the Army Corp levees, the main channel of the Mississippi would have already changed course and be flowing through the area the Morganza spillway dumps water into.
 
Haven't changed my mind and most others. Building in a flood plain is stupid. It's called a flood plain because it floods, duh.
Farm flood land if you want. Just don't put buildings on the land. Or graze livestock during flood season.
Know anybody gone broke paying for healthcare or unable to obtain healthcare?
 
They should be able to live there in mobile trailers that could be uprooted and moved to higher ground in 24 hours notice. Nobody should be allowed to waste resources building a traditional stick built house with a foundation in a flood plain. Now the government will come along and give all these dipsh@ts new houses and crop insurance money. What amazes me is they can come up with 2000 yards of dirt to build a levy around their house in 12 hours but they never thought to haul in the 2000 yards of dirt and raise the house up to begin with when they built the stupid thing.
 
Matt from CT -- you are incorrect about the majority of the land that will be affected by opening the morganza spillway, some of the oldest plantations in the deep south are located in this path and have been operating for centuries, the river always changed course when flood waters rose, there are dry riverbeds visable from the interstate. The gov't propaganda has always been that the corp of engineers saved louisiana but the truth is all the meddling with the natural flow has decimated the coastal plain and estuaries.
 
"We ALL live in some sort of "harms way""
There are areas that may not ever get hit and then there are areas that will get hit.
People are getting tornadoes in areas and times of year that never happened before.
So it's stupid to not take reasonable precautions for the area you live in.
One guy built a hurricane proof house on Galveston Island and after the hurricane his was the only house left in the approved new housing edition.
 
Matt, I agree with everythinhg you said. Also on point is the draining of the Prarie Pot holes up here on the upper great plains and the fact that millions of acres are comming out of CRP and going back into production. Creeks that used to flow for months now flood and go dry in a few weeks.
 
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