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Felling Wedges

S

Stephen Newell

Well-known Member
Anyone use them to take down a tree against a natural lean. I have to cut down a pretty large oak tree and don't like the direction it would naturally fall. It's about 30 in diameter at the base and I guess out of plumb about 18 50' up. My instincts are the tree is too big for the wedges to be effective. What do you guys say.
 
Here is a picture if that helps. The natural lean is away from the camera. I don't want the collateral damage and don't want to get the felled tree out of the thicket.
cvphoto142189.jpg
 
What do you guys say.
I know 5 people who have been killed because of trees.
I'm cheap. I'll pay to have dangerous trees removed.

I did drive the tractor. We used 100 ft of chains attached to a tree that was leaning over a friend's barn. It was scary. I was safe in the tractor. My friend was too cheap to pay someone.
All worked as planned.
Tree kill, be safe.

Use a tractor and chains. Use wedges to keep from the bar pinching.
 
The height of the tree would make it very difficult to get a cable or chain to the top of it. There isn't any lower limbs to hook on. I believe I would have to shoot an arrow over a limb with a string attached to pull a rope over in order to pull a cable over. The wedges would be a lot easier if they would work.
 
From the looks of the picture the tree has been dead for a long time. Cutting down old dead trees can be very dangerous. Dead trees can be rotten in middle and look fine on the outside. Half way through the felling cut the tree will split and go any way it wants. Sometimes the person on the saw gets a face full of tree that kicks out. First choice would be to call a pro. Second would be to get the tallest ladder you can find, climb up and put a chain or wire rope on it and cut away. Leave your self plenty of escape room. If it starts to go weird, dump the saw and run like heck.

OTJ
 
(quoted from post at 11:20:12 12/06/22) The height of the tree would make it very difficult to get a cable or chain to the top of it. There isn't any lower limbs to hook on. I believe I would have to shoot an arrow over a limb with a string attached to pull a rope over in order to pull a cable over. The wedges would be a lot easier if they would work.[/quotquote

I did the same, started with a sling shot with dacron fishing line tied to a 3/4 inch hex nut.
I used a 3/8 inch winch cable about 150 feet long fed thru a loop on the tree end. Did not want to trust the hook staying engaged.
Bindered it several times to another tree.
I did not uses wedges nor try to pull it perpendicular to the house.
But I anchored the cable near perpendicular to the house.
I had a clear spot lengthwise of house so I just cut it and let it fall.
The cable just restricked it from going to the house.

That stump I see in your picture would have been a good tree to anchor to and let tree fall to the side.
Click to expand...
 
You can attach a chain half way up or even lower and still get it to be pulled your way. You don't have to attach to the top of the tree. Do you have a winch? I pulled a huge pine tree over that makes your tree look like a sapling. I had a remote for the winch control and cut a little and added a little more tension on the winch line and continued that way until it tipped over. It doesn't take a lot of force to overcome the lean, but it is going to be a two man operation unless you are experience in this type of work. You can run a line to another anchor point and then apply the pulling force going to the side at a ninety degree angle.
 
I believe the lowest limb is about 40' up. I don't have a cherry picker where I would attach a chain up half way. I don't have a wench anymore either. I know no more lean than the tree has it wouldn't take a lot to change the direction, I'm just not equipped to do it.
 
Yea, I thought about that tree where the stump is this last weekend. I cut it down first because I was able to drop the majority of it in the clearing where I could access it.
 
If I have any doubt about which way a tree will fall I like to use this come-a-long, it's made by Maasdam, and is a wonderful tool. I hook it to the tree as high as is practical, lower takes more force. I have a 130 feet of 1/2 rope in it and it will pull continuous, with 3/4 ton of force. One time a friend had a huge willow hung up in other trees, I used a snatch block to double the power, and we pulled the tree back over the direction he wanted. I don't have any aluminum felling wedges, but I have made them on site out of wood. I have seen videos of folks using a jack, either hydraulic or a Hi-lift, but you have to be careful the tree doesn't break off in the hinge point.
cvphoto142195.jpg
 
It's been dead three years. It's rotten about 1 1/2 around the parameter. The only worrisome part of cutting it down is the limbs above.

Other than changing the direction of the way the tree wants to fall I don't have a problem cutting it down. The stump in the picture was a bigger tree I cut down three weeks ago. It had been dead for about 5 year. I do run when the tree makes a crack. This one I ran from it twice before it cracked the third time and fell.
 
Using a nylon rope to pull a tree allows you to take up the tension with a tractor, winch or whatever and the stretch of the nylon will pull the tree as you cut it. It's like a big elastic band or bungy cord almost. I have one that is 3/4 dia. and maybe 100ft long. Also nylon ropes are good for towing stuck vehicles as the stretch stops the sudden jerk of a chain. I have a couple 15 or 20 ft. long with a few feet of chain for such use.
 
That should be easy, do you have a ladder? Hook on as high as practical, anything over 12 feet up should be fine. Make sure whatever your pulling with, rope, cable, chain, is longer that the height of the tree. Put a little strain on it before sawing, but be gentle. Leave a reasonable hinge, and if the tree is rotten where you are sawing it can be unpredictable. Good luck, let us know how it goes!
 
here is an interesting way to drop a tree i found on utube. they cut a pocket in the tree and used a bottle jack to push the tree over.
poke here
 
Judging from that picture, I would not try to bring it down with wedges. I've used wedges as insurance when I was already pretty sure of the direction the tree would fall, but not against its natural lean. And, as others mentioned, there's a very good likelihood it's hollow, which means wedges will be useless in controlling it.

If I was to do it myself, I'd attach a long line from my tractor to the tree, and put some tension on the line. It doesn't need to be all the way to the top; if you get it even a third of the way up you can put a lot of force on the tree. I have 300 feet of 5/8 inch nylon rope I use for such things. I also have a snatch block I usually attach to the base of a nearby tree to change the direction of the line. (We have a lot of trees, so there's almost always one lined up with where I want the tree to go. I just go as high as I can on my 22 foot ladder, wrap the line around the tree a couple of times and secure it with a bowline. The other end of the line goes to the drawbar of my tractor, also tied with a bowline. (If you use almost any knot other than a bowline you'll never get it untied. So learn to tie a bowline.) Nylon is very stretchy, so you can put some tension on the line and park the tractor rather than have an operator on the tractor. Note that on an old, dead tree like that, there's a very good chance it will break or uproot before you have a chance to start cutting.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lumberjack any more than I'm a lawyer.
 
You don't need any limbs where you hook up to, just wrap a sling or a chain a couple times around and shackle it to your winch. Wit h a couple wraps it will not slide and will only tighten with more pull.

The more simple solution would be to burn the base, just setup a small fire around the base and watch from a safe distance until it comes down.

Don't worry much about retrieving the tree whichever way it falls, if it's old and dead it will likely shatter into quite a few smaller pieces when it hits the ground.
 

I just try a chain around it up about twenty feet, get the pick up out where it wont get hit and start cutting until the tree gets a set and tell whoever 's in the pick up to go. We did a big one by the house that way too.
 
I've seen several youtube videos of tree cutters using a notch (boxed cut) in the back side of the fall and a hydraulic jack to 'push' in the desired direction...they can overcome a pretty good lean with the jack and the right hinge cut

john
 
you have a bad situation there. its not worth practicing on this tree. cut it down the direction it want to fall. then u can drag it out of the bush with a tractor. like they say what could go wrong... i say lots . and make sure you have a hard hat on!
 
At 20' you would only be about a third the height of the tree. I think that would be too much weight to try to pull it. Anyway I think most of it will come down in tact The tree I cut
down a couple weeks ago had a little shattering toward the top but that is all. One of the reasons I want to retrieve the tree is I have a sawmill. I got about 150 board feet of lumber
out of one 8' log I cut a couple weeks ago.
 
i dont know your experience in tree felling nor did you tell us. i see chains, ropes , trucks , winches mentioned. no one has actually given advise on how to do the cuts first thing. that is the important part. when i see people cut down trees i look at their stumps , it tells the story of good or bad. but maybe you know all this. my dad started felling trees in 1948 and spent over 30 years at it all winter long. there was no work 10 days or 2 weeks and a week off. it was work pretty much steady all winter with a day or two off every so often . gone for one month or more was pretty normal. there was one month where he fell 10,000 trees in november with his homelite 922.
 
ooh no , not a ford 8n is it? lol. someone must have a big tractor, crawler, backhoe.
 
(quoted from post at 13:42:16 12/06/22) i dont know your experience in tree felling nor did you tell us. i see chains, ropes , trucks , winches mentioned. no one has actually given advise on how to do the cuts first thing.
Click to expand...

If it's dead and has been so for some time, with a sufficient tug it's likely to come down without the need for any cuts or anyone in the danger zone. Even if it snaps off at the pull point you're left with a much less dangerous situation to finish up.
 
Wedging only works if the hinge wood is reliable.

You can just as easily pop the hinge wood on a hard back lean, and then the tree is going... wherever it wants.

Back in the spring I had a relatively small dead ash that I misread the lean on. The lean wasn't anywhere near 18". I tried to force it back over with plastic felling wedges ala Buckin' Billy Ray. It was a no-go.
 
Ive been to 2 tree cutting schools when i worked for the county parks. Instructor said that there is a time to walk away on some trees. Call a boom truck and tree service guy. To many have been killed on stuff they dont know how to handle.
 
I used a fishing pole and a heavy sinker to get a rope over the top of a tall barn. Got it on the first cast. I needed a safety rope to work on the metal roof.
I've helped my tree trimmer, a few times, pull on a rope using my terramite.
It is a sure way to get the tree to fall the way you want.
Sometimes trees do fully things and sometimes the wind blows the wrong direction.
Be safe than sorry.
 
I do have quite a bit of experience cutting trees down. In 1985 when I bought the property it was fully wooded and I cleared the land myself. It's just recently I'm having to deal with oak wilt going through the remaining oak trees. It wouldn't be a problem cutting the tree down if I would just drop it the way it's leaning. This is pretty much the first time I would be trying to go the opposite direction. I think if I combine the suggestions of attaching a cable to the tree to a wench and use a bottle jack I may be able to drop it exactly where I want. I've been wanting to replace the winch I used to have on my jeep for a long time and this is a good excuse.
 
i think if you hooked the chain or cable short to it, like 3-4 ft. in length you would have a fighting chance to yank it out in chunks. and if it wont come get your pickup in front of the tractor.
 
If you cut a pocket Like in the video you could see if the tree is rotten in the middle.
 
As dead as that tree looks to be I would cut the notch out about an 18th or 1/6th of a turn from the brush then cut on the back side closer to the brush. then cut till it wants to fall ans let it go. That will probably make it go close to out of the brush. Then just pull the top out of the brush or just leave it to rot out. Since there are no apparent buildings to hit don't worry about it from there.
 
Then you knew 5 idiots that had no business felling a tree in the first place. That tree in the pic looks pretty easy to drop where you want it
 
It's a bit deceptive the appearance of the tree. The red oak trees on my place drop the limbs pretty quickly when they die. I had a group of 4 trees that died this summer and I got probably a fourth of a cord of wood from just the limbs. In the other picture which shows a stump in the foreground I cut one of the logs into lumber Sunday and I was getting 18 wide boards. There is some spalting or rot in about 1 and 1 1/2 next to the bark but the rest of the wood is very solid. The tree I'm proposing cutting is only about dead about a year longer.
 
On the other side of the thicket there is a bridge over a creek which might be damaged as well as well as living tees which I don't want to damage. I just really need to drop the tree a little right of that stump in the picture. There isn't a hurry in taking it down. Got a lot of good ideas here and will wait until I'm better equipped.
 
Stuart it is sad you are calling my friends and acquaintances idiots. I find your comments uncalled for and repulsive.
One tree killed man was a professional logger, widow maker. Unexpected things happen
One tree killed a 10 year old kid. That man never got over killing his kid.
Another man killed his BIL. Tree fell the wrong way
2 others were people cutting firewood.
Please be kinder.
 
Ask yourself what happens when the tree overpowers the bottle jack. Either the jack blows a gasket, or the tree barber chairs up the middle and then goes where it wants to go. BTDT on two trees - one larch (tamarack) almost 2 ft in diameter and well over 150 ft tall compressed my 12 ton jack when a puff of wind came by, then I went up a foot and fell it with the lean. Just looking at your picture, it looks like it would fall to the right, along the brush line, even if its leaning into the brush. Just take everyone's advice on the holding wood - if it won't hold, it won't hinge. And use a spotter who can grab you if a limb comes your way. If you are still unsure, tie the rope up high like others suggest, and put some tension on it.
 
Also, IF you are determined to use wedges, slice all the soft wood off the outside of the tree before you place your wedges. You don't want them in spongy wood. And don't make your birdmouth cut so deep you have no room for the saw bar in the tree in front of the wedges on the back cut. Saw and pound, saw and pound, and MOVE when your spotter says move!!!
 
A few years ago I decided to clear some smaller trees around around the house. They were up around 40 to 70 feet, maybe a bit more.
I had a fella climb up then tree, tie a yellow 1 inch nylon rope around it about 1/2 way up, come down, fire up his chainsaw and I was in the wife's Bronco and I would be pulling slightly as he was cutting. He yelled Go! and I was a gittin'. Every tree landed exactly where I needed without hesitation. Even the backward leaning monsters.
That was the cheap way. Except for paying for that rope. That was about 80 feet of expense.
80 feet of rope should work for an 80 foot tree.
1/2 way up is 40 feet. It falls and the top of the tree will be at the back of the vehicle.
Git R' Done.
 
They make a screw type wedge that will do what you want. I've watched videos of it but don't know the cost.

I worked with a guy when I was young and he was the best I've ever seen. He would cut a notch, cut the sides at an angle and then cut the rest at an angle and the tree would turn itself the opposite way it was leaning. It was amazing to see.
 
If the tree is dry and brittle at all I wouldn't use a jack, the hinge could break and the tree will go where it wants to, might not be good. I would only use the jack system on a green tree.
 
The video I watched the guy put a piece of 1/4 flat steel on top of the bottle jack. That would help prevent the jack from going into the wood. Anyway I know the wood in this tree is good.
 
Right now I plan on combining the suggestions I've gotten here and use a winch with a cable pulling the tree while using the 20 ton jack in the tree. I estimate the total weight of the tree to be around 8000 lbs. The jack should be more than enough.
 
I'm not determined to use wedges, I just looked into making a tree fall against a natural lean and wedges were suggested. I think it might work for a much smaller tree but not this one. I just wanted everyone's opinion on using the wedges.
 
The jack going into the wood isn't the problem, the hinge breaking off because the wood is dry and brittle is the fear. And I wouldn't use a powered winch either, you don't really know how hard your pulling. I like my rope come-a-long, I can feel how hard I'm pulling and the stretch of the rope is like a long rubber band, it continues to pull the tree after the hinge breaks off.
 
My dad and grandfather cut timber for almost 20 years, and I ran the skidder near the end. I have helped wedge a lot of hardwood along the edge of the fields, we carried the serious steel wedges in the skidder. I would advise seeking an experienced faller. I don't want to insult anyone, but I am surprised that some of you are still alive. This is serious business, and you can get killed in a heartbeat. The chain saw work when using wedges needs to be perfect and it doesn't hurt to have a serious chainsaw. I would just cut the tree in the picture to fall in its natural lean, dead trees do odd stuff. Blowing a hinge on a wedged tree is a heart stopping moment. The tree appears to literally jump in the air and do a slow turn.
 
you are correct on that ! it is just too big. it has to fall with the lean. probably could do u slight turn but you will not bring it back. and u can bet your boots if you bring in a tree faller he will tell you the same.
 
I cut down a tree like that recently. Put a slip knot in the end of a nylon rope and wrap it around the tree a couple of times and the thru the slip knot and pull it tight. Next tie the other end to the front of a vehicle with an automatic transmission. Have a helper back up and put a little tension, not too much! and give the engine just a little pull on the rope. Have him watch the top of the tree and give it a little gas as the tree starts to fall. This worked very good for me!!! Use a longggggggg rope!
 
I hooked a 4020 and about 100' of chain to a tree once. Pulled against the tree till the tires started slipping, blocked/applied brakes, and cut the tree down. Worked perfectly and fell exactly where I wanted it. When in doubt, I force the tree to fall in the desired direction......and pay attention to the wind.....don't do it on a windy day unless the wind is in your favor.
 
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