Buzz box

Kerry50 · May 4, 2022

Sitting here thinking, how big of a generator would it take to run a Buzz Box, Lincoln 225 welder? That welder being 220. Would a 5500 watt generator do the job?
I'm just thinking about replacing fence corners with drill stem. Not continuous welding. Burn a rod then wait a couple minutes to burn another.
Picked up 2 7/8 X 8' drill stem for $26 today.

Gene Davis (Ga.) · May 4, 2022

I have the same Lincoln buzz box and an 8kw generator. I have used the welder running off the geneerator a few times. Anthing more than about 60-75 amps would really make the generator bark for all it had.

Andy Wickiser · May 4, 2022

Lincoln 225 is usually connected to a 220 Volt circuit fused at 50 Amp, 220 X 50 means able to deliver 11,000 Watts of power. If connected to a 5500 Watt generator you would only be able to weld on the very low ranges.

Richard G. · May 4, 2022

Kerry50 · May 4, 2022

Thank you gentlemen

rockgrower · May 4, 2022

Lincoln recommends a minimum of 15,000 watts. I used to run one off of a 2o,ooo watt pto generator which worked fine, but you could here it putting a load on engine when welding.

MarkB_MI · May 5, 2022

This is one of those questions that pops up every year or two. Here's a thread from 2002, featuring the late T-Bone.

There are many more in the archives; google 'run welder off generator site:yesterdaystractors.com'.
Welder on Generator

woodbutcher · May 5, 2022

I tried it with my 5500 watt generator and my Lincoln buzz box and had limited success. The breaker on one leg of the panel tripped when I was at the best amp setting. So, I bought a Champion 6500 watt LP/gasoline generator. It did the job for me.

Butch

John T · May 5, 2022

Kerry good question, the answer to what size generator is required to operate your welder DEPENDS ON

Your welder and WHAT CURRENT YOU WELD AT

A certain sized genset may be adequate for light duty lower current welding BUT FAIL IF YOU TRIED TO WELD REQUIRING HIGH CURRENT !!!!!!

Some examples

At 240 Volts 5500 Watts equates to 23 Amps and thats ifffffffff the genset can actually provide 23 amps continuous. Soooooooo if what you're welding doesn't require more than 23 primary amps ???? you're good to go, still based on duty cycle and whatever overcurrent protection the genset may have PLUS INEFFICIENCY AND HEAT LOSSES

While the welder may not require as much which depends on your welding current, many older AC Buzz Box welders require a 240 Volt 50 Amp receptacle and 240 volta at even 40 Amps (80% of 50) is 9600 Watts

Sooooooo YES if your genset can provide 240 Volts and what you're welding doesn't require more then 23 Amps on the 240 VAC Input side a 5500 (if true??) Watt genset may ?? work. Still subject to heat losses and inefficiency which can be significant

BOTTOM LINE ANSWER While the answer DEPENDS (per the above) you can likely weld light duty at lower currents BUT NOT HIGH CURRENT WELDING

Hope this helps

John T

Bret4207 · May 5, 2022

Always strikes me as odd that a generator of 5Kw can't run a little buzz box, but my Miller AELE-200 with an 18hp Onan and 4Kw generator can weld at 200 amps with a 100% duty cycle. I know, different circuits, different set up entirely, but it just never makes sense to me. I used my 25Kw PTO alternator to run a 220 buzz box and it was fine at 130 amps BTW. But that's a lot of Kw's with a 55hp tractor driving it.

You can likely rent an engine driven AC/DC welder and do a better job than the AC unit will do.

MarkB_MI · May 5, 2022

> Always strikes me as odd that a generator of 5Kw can't run a little buzz box, but my Miller AELE-200 with an 18hp Onan and 4Kw generator can weld at 200 amps with a 100% duty cycle.

Well, the ratings on generators are a bit 'optimistic' (which is a nicer word than 'fraudulent'). Maybe not as bad as air compressor ratings or the horsepower claims of (now defunct) Craftsman table saws, but they definitely aren't very realistic. A typical '5000 watt' generator is probably good for about 3000 volt-amps steady-state. Note I said 'volt-amps', not watts. Welders, being inductive loads, draw a lot of volt-amps.

Your Miller was designed first as a welder, with its generating capacity secondary. It's going to operate a lot more efficiently than an AC generator driving an AC welder, since there's nothing between the gas engine and the DC generator to suck up power. In theory, an 18 hp engine can produce around 13 kw of power; far more than the 4 kw generator rating of your welder. And about double the power required to weld 200 amps at 32 volts.

John T · May 5, 2022

Bret, to help make sense of it all you have to consider the inefficiencies and heat losses of the various
components. Once you take an INEFFICIENT small gasoline engine,,,,,,,, use it to drive an INEFFICIENT
generator, then use it to power an INEFFICIENT welder, which is a highly inductive transformer, add them
all up and you realize much of the power generated gets lost/converted to heat !!!!!!!!!

Contrast that to if you plug a welder, which is basically a transformer, direct into the utility, that's
ONLY ONE inefficiency, between the power plug and the weld.

A cheap built big box store genset which is LABELED at say 5000 Watts may or may NOT be capable of
producing that continuous !!!!!! It may represent more of a max short term rating in the real world. On
top of that a motor or a welder/transformer is a highly inductive load versus say a pure resistance
electric heater. A relevant formula regarding Watts and Power factor.....

Power Factor = Active Power (Watts) / Apparent Power (Volt Amps)

A pure resistive load such as an electric strip heater has a unity one PF yet an inductive load (such as
welder/transformer or motor) is less then one. BOTTOM LINE it takes a bigger generator to power a welder
or motor than an electric heater

Clear as mud Im sure lol but hope this helps

John T

Kerry50 · May 6, 2022

John, I always appreciate your knowledge and insight.

John T · May 6, 2022

Thanks for the kind words, although retired I still enjoy electrical stuff lol

John T

Bret4207 · May 7, 2022

(quoted from post at 17:01:15 05/05/22) Bret, to help make sense of it all you have to consider the inefficiencies and heat losses of the various
components. Once you take an INEFFICIENT small gasoline engine,,,,,,,, use it to drive an INEFFICIENT
generator, then use it to power an INEFFICIENT welder, which is a highly inductive transformer, add them
all up and you realize much of the power generated gets lost/converted to heat !!!!!!!!!

Contrast that to if you plug a welder, which is basically a transformer, direct into the utility, that's
ONLY ONE inefficiency, between the power plug and the weld.

A cheap built big box store genset which is LABELED at say 5000 Watts may or may NOT be capable of
producing that continuous !!!!!! It may represent more of a max short term rating in the real world. On
top of that a motor or a welder/transformer is a highly inductive load versus say a pure resistance
electric heater. A relevant formula regarding Watts and Power factor.....

Power Factor = Active Power (Watts) / Apparent Power (Volt Amps)

A pure resistive load such as an electric strip heater has a unity one PF yet an inductive load (such as
welder/transformer or motor) is less then one. BOTTOM LINE it takes a bigger generator to power a welder
or motor than an electric heater

Clear as mud Im sure lol but hope this helps

John T

I gotcha John, and I sort of knew the why, it just always struck me as odd.

crsutton81 · May 7, 2022

I have ran our 225 Amp Lincoln on our 10 kw pto generator fine as long as it was on a steady tractor hp supply. I tried it once on my JD 620 out of necessity and had bad trouble with the rods sticking due to low hp and the 2 cylinders making it pulse under loaded conditions. I put it on one of the diesel IH 674's and problem went away. It made the tractor bark though.

Buzz box

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