I Need Some Opinions, Not Exactly tool Related....Quite Long

Let me preface this by mentioning I've been a member of the YT forums for 16-18 years, stop by daily, and put high value on level headed opinions.

This has to do with my neighbors busted septic line (red line in pic)that runs 400' thru my property.

Small town north Idaho, population about 900, my “neighbor” is the self-proclaimed Mayor in the bars downtown at which he can be found from noon to closing most every night. Probably 75 years old, 2 tours in Nam, hospitalized several times for “Anger Issues” and an unpleasant guy all around. When my wife and our grandkids play on our property which goes to his driveway he will come out waving a shovel, hollering, and brings out weapons and shoots his shed on our property line. No town cop, Sheriff says he can't do much without catching him firing a weapon or threatening us.

His septic line is 30+ years old and has been gurgling up solids, toilet paper, etc on my prop down by the front road since last spring. I notified him over the fence row, and he came after me with a shovel handle and told me it was my problem. Now it's gurgling up in 2 more areas between his house and mine, In this heat odor is terrible, wife won't take grand kids out in our 2acre yard to play.

I worked up the ladder from city employees to city manager, the mayor, and now have the County Health office involved, complaint has been filed.

Health Dept official called tonight and told me I need to discuss the problem with the neighbor, NOT going to happen without a Sheriff present.

Only way to fix 30 year old septic line is to start digging at the city sewer hook-up by my driveway and dig +/- 300” across my property. I told county health It needs to be repaired by licensed plumber, not his bar friends, but the question is~

What should I charge him to dig up my property and repair his pipe?

Google Earth pic is a couple years old, We've hand dug and installed 350 feet of split rail fence, planted 200ft of lawn, and probably planted 20 bushes and trees approximately where his sewer line is.

Another neighbor who has had run-ins with the guy suggested 100 dollars a day and 10 dollars a foot because I'll have to remove trees, bushes, lawn after it's dug, even if I write something up stating that my property needs to be returned to it's original state.

Whatcha think? Any and all opinions appreciated!

Scott




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Two words: Security Cameras

Two more words: Document EVERYTHING!

We live literally in the middle of nowhere. It's not unusual for there to be no traffic past our house all day. 15 years ago, I could say that about almost any given 2-week period.

Our nearest "neighbor" is much like yours only, he likes to take his act on the road. Many people have moved because they came home to mysterious fires, poisoned pets, shot horses, etc. He set a fire that burned half our land. Would have gotten away with it if not for all the documentation I'd done over the years. Sure wish I'd had the security cameras sooner!

Get some cameras and a security DVR and document the neighbors actions. There are cameras that record sound as well, but whether it can pick up that far remains to be seen.

We've had video cameras and had recorded countless hours of this and that. When you see the sewage bubbling up from the ground, video the bubbling while describing the situation on camera. When you have enough documentation, take him to small claims court. No lawyers needed, although it wouldn't hurt if you could consult with one before taking action, and even before you invest in security equipment. Find out if the laws/law enforcement/courts in your area might even be a means to resolution.

Keep in mind that even IF you document, and IF you take to court, and IF you win, that doesn't mean he will pay anything. The court can tell him to pay, but cannot force him (at least in our area). Also, it might stir up even more of a hornets nest.

Best of luck to you and yours!

I'm in Australia but surely in the US there is a requirement for a house to be fit for human habitation . A faulty sewage system would contravene health regulations , environmental codes and local town planning requirements. For probably the first time in your life local government authorities could be your friend , try as many as you can starting with the Environment dept.

There's more to the story that you haven't told us. Like your neighbor has an express easement to run his sewer through your property, or, both parcels were once owned by the same owner and you bought yours after the sewer line was installed, creating an implied easement. First, you need a skilled attorney to tell you what your rights and responsibilities are as well as his rights and responsibilities with respect to your situation. Second, the logical route for the new sewer line (if that's the solution) is not through your property, but parallel to the road your neighbor lives on to the intersection of the city sewer. Hard to believe a town of 900 has a city sewer. Do you have a "clean water" problem with mandated cleanup by state or federal agency with all the law and regs to go with that he's violating. What's the City's responsibility here. Where's code enforcement. Is their solution of "talk to your neighbor" a ratification of his unofficial status. Are they condoning his behavior when they should be remediating a public health risk. Your attorney needs to address the issue of the failure of government to enforce the health code. It matters not whether the sewage is on your property or in the ditch in front of your neighbor's house. Given his propensity for violence and unreasonable behavior, nothing you do is without risk to your person and if you jump in here without defining your (legal) liability, you may incur liability/damages for something you know nothing about. Then there's the biological hazard to your family and public. What is your legal position when you interrupt the flow of his sewer or he sends some sewage your way when you're working on the repair. Since you cannot come up with an agreement between the two of you before you start to correct the problem, you need a court order determining what if anything is your responsibility for his sewer, a judgment against him for recoverable damages and attorney fees, and law enforcement to back up the court order and control his response. You won't find many who agree with this position, but you have a legal problem that requires a legal solution.

I agree with CheckBreak regarding the legal nature of the situation.

As for the actual sewer line repair/replacement, there are near no-dig solutions to the problem, whether internal lining of his current line or directional boring to place a new one. Both would require a contractor not likely in your town now, but available.

Good luck, and stay calm.

My first response would be loads of dirt over the top of the area where the stuff is surfacing. I know that is not the final solution but rather a temporary patch while the wheels of authority drag.
Of course consult an attorney first, bringing in loads of soil onto your own property seems ok, covering that mess until the repair, hopefully relocation of the line seems ok. Dithering around a real problem is not ok. Fearing your neighbor's behavior is not ok.
Document before during and after, video while you work. Do not dig, just pile dirt on top. Be sure you are on your property and expect that trouble will get worse. Protect yourself, family,and property. I have one of those neighbors,came on my place with four guns, after a "tussle" he went to jail for public intoxication, bonded out same day, but has not returned thus far. I'm still waiting and watching. Yep, waiting.

(quoted from post at 01:24:01 07/29/20) ]
Health Dept official called tonight and told me I need to discuss the problem with the neighbor, NOT going to happen without a Sheriff

Whatcha think? Any and all opinions appreciated!

Scott

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You made an official, in writing complaint to the health department and the offical told you to go talk to the neighbor??I

First I would go get a copy of my compliant if I did not already have one.
With the complaint in hand, I would demand a response in writing.
If the dept. told you to go talk with neighbor again I would tell them that is not acceptable and to do their job to get the problem fixed.
If they refused, I would let them know your going to file a complaint with the state level health department.

On the local department as well as the neighbor.

The poster who said you need a lawyer is right. Much depends on local laws, customs, and how the easement is worded. I would not expect any money at all, but would expect his contractor to make an effort to restore the property. But without the wording of the easement on the deed or where ever it is, and without a legal opinion, you don't have a way to know

The sewer main is within the right-of-way of S. Front St.
The City can certainly run a line just inside the ROW of Hwy 99 to the south so that Denny can connect going east.

If no, you might have any obligation to allow a new line across your property.
But he has a legal obligation to correct the problem or risk having his property condemned.
And if the city sewer system can not be extended down Hwy 99, then he would have to install a septic system.

This situation is quite ironic when the treatment plant is what?
1/8 mile east of his place?

More like 1/4 mile as the crow flies, but to pump it up over Bobs place would be prohibitive. I also don't think Bob would allow it.Ditch behind my barn is almost white water come spring, best bet would be to blow under 99 and go down by Daryl's.

funny thing, I didn't see your drone.....

For some reason, I'm having a helluva time trying to follow this using Modern View. Most of the replies won't show up for me.

Idaho Digger wrote, "[i:efa94600b5]His/my property line is right on the edge of his driveway, that where he comes out and paces back and forth hollering[/i:efa94600b5]."
This is where you need multiple cameras recording from different angles/locations. You say there is one camera aimed towards his location. OK, so let's say there is a gunshot. The one single camera/location will not in the slightest be able to tell which direction the shot came from.....assuming the cameras can record sound. BUT, if you have 2 or 3 cameras with audio from widely different angles, and some way to catch him yelling at the kids or ya'll while ya'll are entirely on your own land, then you have him making threats towards you folks. If there was a gunshot, reviewing of the camera angles (the recorded sounds) would greatly help in providing detail into what direction the shot(s) came from.

If this guy is harassing your family so much, then something needs to be done about it. If you have evidence in hand, then you can FORCE your local officials/law enforcement into action.

Next item, you wrote this, "[i:efa94600b5]My place, the one by the barn in the picture, used to be the town dairy with 75 or so acres, the original owners dropped his single wide on a corner of their property for their daughter to live in. They ran his water and sewer line in when they set the trailer there, permits here were pretty loosey goosey back in the 60's, so no documents filed. Local opinions here in town are that they would prefer I whacked his sewer and water lines, hopefully driving him out of town. County commissioner said off-the-record if I did it on my property he couldn't do anything[/i:efa94600b5]."
If the sewage line existed before either of you moved there, then in my useless opinion, I do not see how you could simply tear into his sewer line for any reason, even to fix it at your own expense. No good deed goes unpunished, and he would likely take you to court for disturbing his sewage line without proper authorization, regardless of any problems with the line. And I bet he would win!

Again, in my useless opinion, probably the best course of action for when the line gets repaired/rerouted would be to simply abandon that line and leave all grass/trees/soil undisturbed, then run the new line in an approved-by-local-authority location.

OK, last thing and then I'm shutting up. (.....stop cheering! *lol*) There are some very inexpensive camcorders available on Amazon. If you really want to catch this guy, rather than being visible and letting him see you put up new cameras aimed towards his place, just have [i:efa94600b5]everyone[/i:efa94600b5] carry a small camera (turned on and recording) every time they are outside. If nothing happens, delete the recording and use it again the following time. If he comes out, let him spew and spatter for a while, then pull out the still-recording camera so both he and the camera can see what ALL is going on. Yes, I have used this trick on my neighbor. Caught him saying things he really didn't want recorded. Everyone may see a camera or something in your hand, but they won't think much of it "UNLESS" you happen to raise it up and facing them or to just fiddle with it. Then they know to shut up. But if you catch his threats, then let the camera show who it was that made the threads.....there's your proof!

I noticed the trees near or inline with the pipe. There's nothing wrong with planting trees in an easement, but you might not have any recourse if they need to be removed or die later. I would assume even if the trench went around but near the trees it might kill them if the root system is damaged. Damaged or severed roots can take a couple years to kill a tree too. This is just something I noticed and would be concerned about but not sure if you have any options.

As previously stated . Record, document , land survey and hire a legal weasel . Think lawyers are expensive ? How much will this cost if this goes wrong ?
I am wondering if you will be blamed for the pipe failure due to planting and fencing .

If all else fails, notify the EPA of the problem and the negative responses by the locals. The EPA will enforce stiff fines and penalties for Known Polluters that are causing a public health issue.

An alternative would be to install a small collection basin with a pump and return the offensive material back to his property, making it his problem.

No easy answer here. You cannot and should not attempt to work with unreasonable people on your own. We pay people in authority to protect all individual rights.

With the first picture you posted, it shows hints of location.
Along with words in your first post there are also clues to location.

A simple search found the location.

The treatment plant built on the abandoned railroad was not there in 1985. So Dennys connector is no older, unless there was a treatment plant elsewhere prior to 1985.
If Dennys place was placed before 1985 and there was no city sewer system back then that trailer likely was on septic system.
If true, what is bubbling up might actually be from an overflow pipe
from his pre 1985 septic system. And he is not actually connected the the city sewer at all.
That line could actually be connected to your line before it goes to the main. Especially if both properties were one with two residences on it.

You better lawyer up and get things underway.

make sure your trees or shrubs are not the cause of his problem, or you might have to foot the bill. I think that underground drilling would be the way to go.