First arc welds

RedMF40

Well-known Member
So the outlet for the Linde welder is all done and I had a chance to fire it up just today. Sorry, not going to show you the welds. No can do. Maybe when I've made some improvement I'll post the pics. What I can do is describe what I was trying to do: make small tack welds to hold a 7/8" bolt in place. This was a test bolt. Well, I got a bit carried away and used up a whole rod on these tack welds. That is SOME tack weld, hahahaha! Went all the way around the bolt.

So it works.

For the practical application, I'll apply what I learned very briefly on the car lift I just put in my shop. Old Benwil lift, once the darling of GM dealerships back in the day. My wedge bolts are sticking out just a bit too much, and now it's impossible to pull them out of the concrete and drill the holes deeper. So I want to tack weld them to the base of the lift just enough to make it so I can thread the nuts onto them without them spinning. And it's not all the bolts, just three of them. The others are fine.

That's the plan. And I'm encouraged by the welds I just made, ugly as they are. Very happy with the Linde. Will use it a lot more before trying out the Lincoln Arcweld.

Gerrit
 
Glad to hear it, and hopefully the Lincoln will work as well. Either should be worth at least what you paid for both together, once you've found which one you prefer, and stick welding's a valuable skill to master. What rod were you using? AC7018's a good all-around choice for clean metal on an AC machine, but some machines run it better than others.
 
(quoted from post at 17:23:23 05/31/20) Glad to hear it, and hopefully the Lincoln will work as well. Either should be worth at least what you paid for both together, once you've found which one you prefer, and stick welding's a valuable skill to master. What rod were you using? AC7018's a good all-around choice for clean metal on an AC machine, but some machines run it better than others.

Tim,

It was this rod. I think I was asking for 7014 but I was also telling the man at the welding supply I was learning to use these machines and he suggested this rod in the small pack instead of 10 lbs of something else that was going to cost me more money.
If the photo doesn't load, it's something called UTP 612. Not one of the suggestions I got from this site, but it works. Oh 1/8" rod.
mvphoto55702.jpg
 
Before trying to weld something important, get some scrap pieces and practice.

Be sure the scrap is easy to weld, not 12L or cast iron. Clean any paint or rust off with your grinder.

As for the anchor bolts, I'm not following how welding them will allow them to be tightened?

Can't you stack washers on to take up the extra length? Sometimes an impact will set one that wants to spin.
 
(quoted from post at 17:48:33 05/31/20) Before trying to weld something important, get some scrap pieces and practice.

Be sure the scrap is easy to weld, not 12L or cast iron. Clean any paint or rust off with your grinder.

As for the anchor bolts, I'm not following how welding them will allow them to be tightened?

Can't you stack washers on to take up the extra length? Sometimes an impact will set one that wants to spin.

Steve,

Yes, I'm practicing on scrap steel and pieces of the same three bolts I want to tack weld. Same kind of bolt.

There are twelve anchor bolts and these three are the holdouts and they're spaced pretty far apart. If they don't tighten like they should, I'll have to re-evaluate. I've already put my impact wrench on them--with stacked washers--and they spin. I'm confident the lift is well-anchored even without these bolts (and with only ME working under the car), but I'll see what I can do.

I don't know how it works for stress-testing welds, probably some kind of hydraulic puller that pulls and pulls until a weld breaks and they get a numerical value from that. My test was this: I wailed on my welded bolt with a 12 lb hammer, maybe not as hard as I could, but sideways blows didn't budge it.
 
While I've never used it and therefore am unfamiliar with the specific rod, UTP 612 is AWS (American Welding Society-the standards body for such things) certified as E6013. As such, it's probably not the best choice for repair and fabrication, but if you've got it, it will at least give you some practice with your new machines. Don't know if the link below will work or not, but if it does, it's the data sheet for UTP 612 from the manufacturer's website.
UTP 612 data sheet
 
As you have heard,everyone has their favorites but the UTP rod in your picture is the Europe version of USA 6013. Some call 6013 trash while others love it. I use Lincoln rods according to to recommended use.
 
I already said but will repeat 6011 for rusty stuff and penetration. 6013 (what you have) for general purpose welds, 7014 to learn to weld
because it is way easy to use, and lets you get arc length under control and self starts easily. it is also a strong weld. Jim
 
The Lincoln might run the 7018 a little better, they claimed to have a little higher secondary voltage. I run them on my Airco, but it's not easy! It looks like Airco has been out of business so long Google doesn't even recognize it! Used to be a well known company.
 
That's pretty much how a stress test works, try to break it!

Sounds like you've got good penetration if it stood up to that!

I always say I make "gorilla welds" ugly but tough! LOL

Something you might try on the spinning bolts, if you have a ball joint splitting fork, drive it (or some kind of wedge) under the washer, try to pull up while tightening. If you can get the wedge to grab, it might tighten.
 
(quoted from post at 20:19:09 05/31/20) The Lincoln might run the 7018 a little better, they claimed to have a little higher secondary voltage. I run them on my Airco, but it's not easy! It looks like Airco has been out of business so long Google doesn't even recognize it! Used to be a well known company.

Just about all the Airco welders were made by Miller (Airco did make a few of their own welders). Most of the Airco company was bought by Esab (BOC group), Lincoln Electric got a small part of Airco as well. If you open up your welder don't be surprised to Miller everywhere inside it (Miller should still have parts for it if it was made by Miller).
 
(quoted from post at 18:12:39 05/31/20) While I've never used it and therefore am unfamiliar with the specific rod, UTP 612 is AWS (American Welding Society-the standards body for such things) certified as E6013. As such, it's probably not the best choice for repair and fabrication, but if you've got it, it will at least give you some practice with your new machines. Don't know if the link below will work or not, but if it does, it's the data sheet for UTP 612 from the manufacturer's website.
UTP 612 data sheet

Thanks, I was able to look at the data sheet. The man at the welding store knew I wasn't doing anything structural at the moment so suggested the small pack of rods instead of shelling out $40 for ten pounds of the 7014. My next trip there I'll just get the 7014 and an auto darkening welding helmet. Mine is a Jackson and it looks pretty primitive. Protects my eyes but I can't see very well. Better than nothing.
 
(quoted from post at 19:29:08 05/31/20) I already said but will repeat 6011 for rusty stuff and penetration. 6013 (what you have) for general purpose welds, 7014 to learn to weld
because it is way easy to use, and lets you get arc length under control and self starts easily. it is also a strong weld. Jim

Jim,

I was going for the 7014 rods then decided on this small pack to practice on. Will get the 7014 next time. Also, my helmet looks fairly old, no modern features. I looked at the helmets in the store and they were pretty high-tech with all kinds of adjustments and so on. Looks like a good auto-darkening one can be had for around $135. It was a Miller if I remember right. Thanks for the suggestions. Looking forward to making better welds.
 
(quoted from post at 20:23:44 05/31/20) That's pretty much how a stress test works, try to break it!

Sounds like you've got good penetration if it stood up to that!

I always say I make "gorilla welds" ugly but tough! LOL

Something you might try on the spinning bolts, if you have a ball joint splitting fork, drive it (or some kind of wedge) under the washer, try to pull up while tightening. If you can get the wedge to grab, it might tighten.

Thanks, but I stood the channel iron on end last night and whacked the bolt from above and it finally broke free. Penetration didn't look that great. But it held enough for what I needed to do.

Good suggestion on those anchor bolts. If I can get them to stay still they will tighten up. I drilled the holes to the depth the Benwil lift instructions said but an experienced lift installer told me they had to be deeper to avoid problems like this.
 

Wedge bolts need to pull up through the base plate to set the wedge and establish the holding force. Tacking the bolt to the base plate, to stop them turning, would defeat that and could lead to failure. The nut could be tight only against the base plate and the wedge not set. As suggested pry up under the nut/washer to get the wedge to grip then tighten to spec. There should be a torque spec for them and if they won't hold you want to know now, not with a vehicle up on the lift. If in doubt, I would add some tabs for more bolt holes and use epoxy anchors in those, along with the factory ones you have. We always found it best to over drill a bit on depth where possible to allow for material that gets left in the holes. We always tried to put the bolts in to a depth where they start with no more than a full nut when installed, often a thread or two less to allow for wedge pull up. A couple threads over a full nut is good, when tight.
 
. If in doubt, I would add some tabs for more bolt holes and use epoxy anchors in those, along with the factory ones you have. We always found it best to over drill a bit on depth where possible to allow for material that gets left in the holes. We always tried to put the bolts in to a depth where they start with no more than a full nut when installed, often a thread or two less to allow for wedge pull up. A couple threads over a full nut is good, when tight.[/quote]

Live and learn. One of those things that comes with experience. If need be I'll see if I can extract those three bolts but it's unlikely. Your suggestion to add other tabs is good. But I'll see if I can get these to tighten using some of the suggestions here. BTW I did blow out the holes before putting the anchors in to make sure I was getting them all the way to the bottom.

Funny you should bring up torque specs. I looked for those in the installation manual. It states just to "Tighten" all bolts. The anchor bolts and also the four for each post where it gets bolted to the base. Just tighten. Ok.
 
That's a better quality rod, the 80 is the tensile, I have seen 8018 used on better steel. Truck frames should be better quality steel, requiring a better rod.
 
danofarming: Welding rods which have higher tensile strength than 70xx (the 70 meaning that the filler metal resists being pulled apart by a force up to 70,000 psi) begin to be designed for specialty uses. It isn't as simple as saying the higher the tensile strength the better. When you get to 90xxx and up, you run into different application requirements such as the amount of time and the temperature for pre-heating and for post-heating. I don't know this for a fact, but I've read that 120xx rods were developed for the Navy for use in the construction of nuclear submarines, and there isn't much else to use them for. In general, there isn't much point in making your weld joint stronger than the metal it's holding together, and in some cases there's even a downside to doing so.

Stan
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top