I did read everyones replies and thank you ! I have another question. My saw is currently set up using .325 pitch chain. Seems like 3/8 is much more popular. It was .325 when I bought it. Is there any advantage to 3/8 over .325 ? Bar and sproket will be new, and all the chains I have now are shot. Thoughts ?
- Thread starter 300jk
- Start date
No advantage and it depends on what you are calling 3/8" chain. 3/8" chain used to be a full size chain. Then a small cutter version came out and it was called 3/8" LP (for Low Profile). Homelite called their version Picco 3/8". It got confusing after awhile. So there is full size 3/8" and LP 3/8". I suspect you have LP 3/8" that has smaller cutters and more to the inch then full-size. So in the end - as far as cutting does - not much difference between .325 and 3/8" LP. I prefer .325" because I find it easier to machine sharpen. Now adays, to avoid confusion, many companies call the original 3/8" chain .375" chain instead. I am still wondering why you want full-chisel chain. It can be miserable to sharpen. Semi-chisel is much more forgiving and more common.
One other thing. .325 will likely have a few extra cutters as compared to 3/8" LP chain. That said, I have swapped back and forth and never noticed any cutting difference. Both chains are made for small saws, whereas the standard 3/8" is used for bigger saws. Back in the 70s, Stihl used to put 1/4" chain on the small saws, and 3/8" and /404" on the bigger saws. 1/4" seems to be almost obsolete.
When I bought the saw it came with a Johnny home owner chain. One they called a low kick back chain. It was horrible. I have worked from time to time with a buddy of mine who is an arborist. His saws always cut best with a full chisel. I mean his bigger saws. I tried the full chisel and liked it. Not meant for the average guy, I understand that. That's nust what I've alwals run. An agressive chain.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The difference would be .05". It's less than 1/16".
Butch(OH)
Well-known Member
Forget 3/8 chain on that saw. If you are cutting clean wood and know how to care for your chains you can really wake up a 50CC saw by converting it to narrow kerf chain. Oregon has had it out for years in 325 pitch as 95VP. Baileys sells it in thier house brand as NK type. Stihl recently introduced a narrow kerf .325 chain in Canada and I am not sure if its available here yet. You need to change the bar also.
That being said any properly sharpened chain will be faster than a sorta sharp anything else. I often cut wood with a group for charity and it amazes me how many people cut with dull chains! I learned years ago that a half hour spent doing a precise filing job, meaning in the shop with saw held ridged a vise filing the cutters, setting the depth guages and smoothing the gullets is time well spent.
That being said any properly sharpened chain will be faster than a sorta sharp anything else. I often cut wood with a group for charity and it amazes me how many people cut with dull chains! I learned years ago that a half hour spent doing a precise filing job, meaning in the shop with saw held ridged a vise filing the cutters, setting the depth guages and smoothing the gullets is time well spent.
I am still not sure what you are calling "full chisel." As far as what an arborist recommends? I guess I was an "arborist" back when we were just called "tree climbers." I worked for Asplundh Tree Expert Company in the 70s and not much has changed. Not with chains anyway. I have not met many tree people that agree on much.
What I am calling "full chisel" is fast cutting, especially in frozen wood, but is miserable to sharpen. Cutter is square and even some chain-sharpening machines cannot be set to the proper angles to sharpen it. Plus this type of chisel chain goes from sharp to will-not-cut-at-all very fast.
Semi-chisel cuts near as well, can handle abrasion and light damage and still cut, and sharpens MUCH easier.
Years ago, we would only use Stihl, Homelite, or Oregon chain. The old off-brands like Carlton and Lazer were awful. Now? I have been using Woodland Pro from Baileys for years and it has been great.
I never buy chain wiht anti-kickback. I hate the stuff and it is murder to sharpen it.
What I am calling "full chisel" is fast cutting, especially in frozen wood, but is miserable to sharpen. Cutter is square and even some chain-sharpening machines cannot be set to the proper angles to sharpen it. Plus this type of chisel chain goes from sharp to will-not-cut-at-all very fast.
Semi-chisel cuts near as well, can handle abrasion and light damage and still cut, and sharpens MUCH easier.
Years ago, we would only use Stihl, Homelite, or Oregon chain. The old off-brands like Carlton and Lazer were awful. Now? I have been using Woodland Pro from Baileys for years and it has been great.
I never buy chain wiht anti-kickback. I hate the stuff and it is murder to sharpen it.
When people say "full chisel", they are referring to standard chisel chain and not semi-chisel or skip toothed chisel chain. Square ground chisel is not "full chisel", it's square ground/filed chisel. Semi-chisel and "chipper" (round cornered) are other options. A properly sharpened chisel chain, even sharpened with a round file, will cut easier than a semi-chisel. Just a matter of mechanics. It also does dull a little easier, but is no harder to sharpen than semi-chisel.
It certainly can be harder to sharpen. Depending on the specific make of chain, often angles are odd-ball and some chain sharpeners cannot be
adjusted to sharpen it properly. Especially the 80 degree angle of the chain as it sits in the chain-vise instead of the standard 90
degrees. There is also the issue of regional terms and word connotations. There is no one definition of what "full chisel" means. Thus why I
asked.
adjusted to sharpen it properly. Especially the 80 degree angle of the chain as it sits in the chain-vise instead of the standard 90
degrees. There is also the issue of regional terms and word connotations. There is no one definition of what "full chisel" means. Thus why I
asked.
Riggs rigs
Member
I like to run the 404 chain. I don’t care about the kerf, I’m in big wood and although I had no problems with the 3/8” chain doing the same job, I do find the 404 to be very aggressive. I’m running an old 066 Stihl with a 36” bar. I to was a “tree climber” 25 years ago and the guy training me said keep your chain out of the dirt and you won’t be filing all the time. lol easier said than done with some wood.
Butch(OH)
Well-known Member
I don't know about the old chains you are used to but on a present day Stihl or Oregon chain the actual cutter is exactly the same for what is called round chisel and square chisel in your drawing. Round or square only referring the shape of the file or stone used to sharpen it, both are called full chisel cutters. It takes a special grinder to square grind and filing it with a square file is no job for amateurs. As you said square ground chain cuts REAL fast, for a short while and dulls quickly. A lot of guys buy the square ground chain and enjoy the burst of speed but when it needs sharpened they use a round file or regular radius wheel grinder to resharpen it, then it is no different than if it was round ground to begin with.
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