- Thread starter dewy
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timcasbolt
Well-known Member
I think the quality is comparable, but some wrenches feel better in your hand than others. More of a personal preference kind of thing. The more important consideration is how far you need to go for customer service. When the Mac man lived two miles down the road, I bought Mac. Mostly for specialty tools. I've always been satisfied with the Craftsman tools I bought in the 70's.
I can't answer you in regard to 'material quality', or maybe as technically as you may want, but as a mechanic that's been buying tools for over 30 years, I'll say this.
I've got tools with all of the brand names mentioned, and 'foreign' made tools. Some of each were bought new, some were used. What I've found is that all of them have their place, and all can, and do, last, 'quality be danged'.....as long as they are treated right.
In other words, rarely will you break a hand tool using it as it's designed. Granted, there will always be some pure junk, that won't last 2 seconds with a 5 year old pulling on it, but for the most part, unless you're double wrenching, putting a pipe on your ratchet handle, etc, the vast majority of tools out there will do the job you need done just fine...regardless of the name brand stamped on them.
The biggest difference I typically see is that the cheaper tools have thicker material, say on a boxed end wrench, that doesn't allow them to be used in some places. The good thing though is that when you need a special wrench and you're 50 miles from the nearest tool store, you won't mind torching the $5 wrench to make it work, rather than the $50 Mac, Matco, Snap-On, or whatever.
Again, I know this may not be the exact answer, or explanation you're looking for, but my point is this. For those of us that make a living with our tools, the name on them doesn't matter as long as the tool you've got in your hand gets the job done...........At least for those of us who aren't worried about having the biggest box, with the newest name branded tools, and a huge payment each month....LOL
I've got tools with all of the brand names mentioned, and 'foreign' made tools. Some of each were bought new, some were used. What I've found is that all of them have their place, and all can, and do, last, 'quality be danged'.....as long as they are treated right.
In other words, rarely will you break a hand tool using it as it's designed. Granted, there will always be some pure junk, that won't last 2 seconds with a 5 year old pulling on it, but for the most part, unless you're double wrenching, putting a pipe on your ratchet handle, etc, the vast majority of tools out there will do the job you need done just fine...regardless of the name brand stamped on them.
The biggest difference I typically see is that the cheaper tools have thicker material, say on a boxed end wrench, that doesn't allow them to be used in some places. The good thing though is that when you need a special wrench and you're 50 miles from the nearest tool store, you won't mind torching the $5 wrench to make it work, rather than the $50 Mac, Matco, Snap-On, or whatever.
Again, I know this may not be the exact answer, or explanation you're looking for, but my point is this. For those of us that make a living with our tools, the name on them doesn't matter as long as the tool you've got in your hand gets the job done...........At least for those of us who aren't worried about having the biggest box, with the newest name branded tools, and a huge payment each month....LOL
The big names have their cheaper brands too, snap on is blue point, matco is silver eagle, mac is expert. I don't think there is a difference across the board but some things specifically might be better than their competitors. I tend to buy the tools that come from tool trucks that are notoriously reliable. Mac and Cornwell are not reliable in this area and when they only come by once a month or less or you have to track them down, then I am out.
I liked snap on and Matco when I was using them 12 hours a day to fix big equipment that paid good wages . Now that I farm and the only time I work on anything it?s my own either maintenance or field repair I like NC have a lot of good tools that will do the job for a fraction of the cost of tool truck tools . If I was a young man going to work as mechanic I?d buy snap on tools and that again it sure Is a better investment than a new shiny pickup or girls at least a snap on tool will always make you money not spend it like cars or take half of everything when they get mad and leave you for your best friend . I?ve got a modified harbor freight 2 foot flex head ratchet I made by combining their 2 foot professional breaker bar handle With the head from their biggest half inch flex head professional ratchet I?ve used it 3 years now even with a cheater pipe still can?t break it
One of the arguments you hear time and time again is that high end tools hold their value. If you buy a $100 Snap On tool and sell it in five years for $70 you are out $30. Yes it held 70% of it's value which is pretty good but you are still out $30. Well the Harbor Freight tool cost $30 to begin with so you are out the same amount. But the difference is you have the extra $70 to use for something else like more tools to do more work. If you can avoid getting a loan and paying interest then buying the cheaper tool makes even more sense.
the tractor vet
Well-known Member
Tools , something i have extensive knowledge in . You would cringe at what i have layed out in tools over the years and i havve all the above mentioned plus Craftsman and some dating back into the sixtys . Yes tool truck tools can dig deep into the piggy bank, But when the going get tough they will stand the test of time and abuse . Havve i broken any of my high dollar tools yep sure have but i was doing something at the time that they were not meant to do with that added six foot cheater pipe hanging on it while doing chin ups . I also have all S K ratchets that have been in my tool box since the sixtys . I like my Mac long combination wrenches over anybody's else's , my set goes from 1/4 up to 2 inch i prefer the squared off edges of the wrench body over the sharp edges of snap on . I like may craftsman tools and prefer there sockets over everyone's and my OLD Craftsman sockets seam to be tougher then the rest plus they are a thin wall design and on special app. they have been the only ones that have stood the test of time. Can't tell ya how many 9/16 12 points i have broken of other tool companys while splitting and I H tractor or that elusive 19/32 socket used on certain F E block ford connecting rod bolts or the 3/4 high performance cap screws used in old Detroit diesels and the Craftsman has came thru every time on extrema torque on removal and installation. for me i need tools that will not let me down while i am working on someone else's dime . So unless they come up with a new tool that i need to make my job easier i am like a fat kid with a tooth ach in a candy store when it comes to tool trucks i have it all for what i work on even special tools I have tools for Cummins , Detroit I H Ford (old ford ) and Chrysler here again OLD Chrysler . My 95 Dodge 3500 is loaded down with what i need most of the time and with a 11000 GVW i have about 500 lbs of usable load limit left that i can carry , just enough to throw on splitting stands jack stands and jacks . When i kick off there will be a lot of prime tools that will come on the market when the War Dept starts to sell them off and yes she knows what they are worth . Some may be worth a lot more due to thee fact that OH THEY DON'T MAKE THEM any more.
jimg.allentown
Well-known Member
Between Mac (part of Stanley), Matco, and Snap-On, I find the quality to be comparable. Snap-On has a slight advantage in some tools while Mac and Matco have advantages on other tools. All three are high quality tools.
When you are making a living with your tools, quality makes a big difference. Not just in durability, but in fit, feel, and finish. Ease of use, comfort in your hand, and things like that do add up in a professional environment.
Personally, I like Snap-On's wrenches and sockets. Not so much their screwdrivers. Mac and Matco both have very good sockets. Craftsman had the better screwdrivers.
BUT, craftsman tool in general I found to be bulky, uncomfortable, and in general of poorer quality than the Mac, Marco, and Snap-on tools. One thing I did not like about Craftsman is their sockets. While they are of decent quality and fairly durable, they insisted for many years in making mostly 12-point sockets. They have a tendency to round off hexagonal nuts and bolt heads. In a marginal situation, the Mac, Matco, and Snap-On tools will outperform them.
Then there is Harbor Freight. For most non-professional uses, they are just fine. They are the ones that I would take to the junkyard or out in the field with me. Why? Because they are the ones that will cost the least to replace when they get dropped, lost, or just left behind. These days, they seem to be moving more towards the 12-point sockets. I do not like that. Also, HF sets generally leave out critical sizes like 18mm. I simply will not buy a set that skips over important sizes - especially if there is no SAE substitute.
When you are making a living with your tools, quality makes a big difference. Not just in durability, but in fit, feel, and finish. Ease of use, comfort in your hand, and things like that do add up in a professional environment.
Personally, I like Snap-On's wrenches and sockets. Not so much their screwdrivers. Mac and Matco both have very good sockets. Craftsman had the better screwdrivers.
BUT, craftsman tool in general I found to be bulky, uncomfortable, and in general of poorer quality than the Mac, Marco, and Snap-on tools. One thing I did not like about Craftsman is their sockets. While they are of decent quality and fairly durable, they insisted for many years in making mostly 12-point sockets. They have a tendency to round off hexagonal nuts and bolt heads. In a marginal situation, the Mac, Matco, and Snap-On tools will outperform them.
Then there is Harbor Freight. For most non-professional uses, they are just fine. They are the ones that I would take to the junkyard or out in the field with me. Why? Because they are the ones that will cost the least to replace when they get dropped, lost, or just left behind. These days, they seem to be moving more towards the 12-point sockets. I do not like that. Also, HF sets generally leave out critical sizes like 18mm. I simply will not buy a set that skips over important sizes - especially if there is no SAE substitute.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
In my line of work. Generatods and switch gear. Craftsman was just fine. When shorted out on a 4160 line. They all burn the same.
dr sportster
Well-known Member
Shop foreman told me early on not to be involved with two different brand tool trucks. His friend was Mac but I chose the Snap-On man. Then later when I worked on bikes at night after work the dealer would come to my house. That was expensive.
The Famous Grouse
Member
Keep in mind that nothing stays the same forever.
The Big 3 brands mentioned all make good tool, but just because somebody likes the Snap-On wrenches they bought in the 1980s doesn't mean a guy these days will even get the same wrenches and then will they be the same quality?
Everbody's looking to shave pennies, switching suppliers, changing designs, etc, etc, etc.
And Harbor Freight on the other end has vastly improed IMO. II was getting HF stuff in the 1980s when it was awful, but now they have constantly improved their designs and quality and the pace picked up over the past 5 years. No comparison, the NEW tools bought today at HF are lightyears better than what they sold even 5 years ago.
Just bought a set of long pattern HF wrenches and the quality is astonishing for the price paid. Less than $25 out the door including tax for a full set of long pattern SAE wrenches. They are NOT thick and chunky on the open ends, they are nice and slim, a terrifc design and the full-polish finish is flawless.
And personal preference can't be brand specific. Some tools you're going to like Brand X and some not.
Grouse
The Big 3 brands mentioned all make good tool, but just because somebody likes the Snap-On wrenches they bought in the 1980s doesn't mean a guy these days will even get the same wrenches and then will they be the same quality?
Everbody's looking to shave pennies, switching suppliers, changing designs, etc, etc, etc.
And Harbor Freight on the other end has vastly improed IMO. II was getting HF stuff in the 1980s when it was awful, but now they have constantly improved their designs and quality and the pace picked up over the past 5 years. No comparison, the NEW tools bought today at HF are lightyears better than what they sold even 5 years ago.
Just bought a set of long pattern HF wrenches and the quality is astonishing for the price paid. Less than $25 out the door including tax for a full set of long pattern SAE wrenches. They are NOT thick and chunky on the open ends, they are nice and slim, a terrifc design and the full-polish finish is flawless.
And personal preference can't be brand specific. Some tools you're going to like Brand X and some not.
Grouse
John Garner
Member
I've always been amused by the self-proclaimed hotshot mechanics that absolutely insist that only their chosen tool-truck-brand tools are tough enought to hold up to their supreme talents. Those guys usually keep a stash of cheap tools around for grind-it-thinner and heat-and-bend uses, not recognizing that they do many of their toughest jobs with deliberately-degraded cheap tools.
Back when I was picky about tool brands, the vast majority of my wrenches were branded Proto, Armstrong, SK, Wright, or J H Williams.
Back when I was picky about tool brands, the vast majority of my wrenches were branded Proto, Armstrong, SK, Wright, or J H Williams.
Dale in WV
Member
on Armstrong tools -- I just took a ratcheting combination wrench - ARMSTRONG Brand - to Fastenal for warranty replacement -- clerk said the Apex Tool Group is slowing production (?? eliminating ??) Armstrong tools. He can give me a GearWrench equivalent size....
John Garner
Member
In my 40+ years experience building and testing space-flight hardware, the two most common causes of rounding or stripping of a wrench-to-fastener interface are 1) not fully engaging the wrench to the fastener, and 2) trying to use a wrong-sized wrench.
Not sure what he is doing wrong, my harbor freight 1/2 impact sockets have served me well for years now, as have my Stanley 1/4 and 3/8 chrome sockets, used daily as a heavy equipment mechanic. Ratchets and combination wrenches I spend the money on for snap on but not for sockets when lesser brands have served me well
I made my living for 26 years as a mechanic with a Craftsman tool set from the '60s. Did all the same work as anyone else in the shops I was at. I never had the expensive tools in my cabinet like the others but unlike them I always seemed to have cash in my pockets. Go figure.
I don't have many Matco, he just started stopping at work before I retired but he was selling a lot of tools there. I have Snap-On, Mac, four SK ratchets and a few sockets, along with a quite a few Craftsman tools. I've got favorites out of all of them, I've never broken an SK ratchet but I've busted every Craftsman I had several times along with some Snap-Ons. Craftsman line wrenches are worthless, got a set of Mac line wrenches that are big and clumsy and my Snap-Ons work best. Different brands of sockets work better on different applications like Sn-On Impact wobble sockets work better than Mac and so on.
I bought a lot of my Snap-On stuff years ago off the truck as repoed or traded in tools. It's all good if you can make it work the fastest and easiest for you.
I bought a lot of my Snap-On stuff years ago off the truck as repoed or traded in tools. It's all good if you can make it work the fastest and easiest for you.
jimg.allentown
Well-known Member
The value of as tool is in its use for making a living. The very last thing I look at when buying a tool is the resale value. No, that is not right. I never look at the resale value of a tool. A tool either does or does not meet my needs and budget.
If you want to sell tools, invest in a tool truck. Otherwise, the value of a tool is in its use.
If you want to sell tools, invest in a tool truck. Otherwise, the value of a tool is in its use.
The Famous Grouse
Member
I would love to see a professional mechanic who is open minded and not a hopeless tool truck fan boy have his entire box replaced tool-for-tool with Harbor Freight tools. Then have him work with them for a year and give an unbiased report.
It would just be interesting to see how the tools held up and how they functioned compared to the tool truck equivilent.
Grouse
Same here started in the early 60's working on trucks, I don't think I broke more than 6 tools, they were Craftsman but that was about all I had. Lot of guys paid a lot of money for tools off the trucks but I stayed in the shop, couldn't afford the fancy stuff, had kids to feed. I had a nice shiny snap on that I seldom used because it was too skinny and hurt my hands when pulling hard!!
"Professional Mechanic"
Someone called me that once inadvertently.
He said that, "anyone who could set up a Chevy choke with the bi-metal spring was a professional mechanic."
I walked over to my '68 Chevy truck and demonstrated my trucks cold start with no problems. I then told him the Chrysler's were
just a tad more difficult and one shop in town took three days t get them dialed in."
I never really considered myself a "Professional Mechanic".
I am just a guy who works on cars. Some people say I am good, some say good for nothing.
Newest thing in my fleet currently is a 2005 Chrysler. The wife drives it mostly.
I have pulled a few wrenches in my time. I retired a year ago and now I only pull them for myself.
Harbor freight compared to Snap/Mac, etc. . .
Hardness of metal come into play. Harbor freight sockets are not the greatest and will not hold up with continuous use.
Some of the wrenches aren't too bad, but, and the key word is but, The next question comes in at how much force would you be
wiling to put on a wrench, where if it slips or breaks, will possibly injure your hand, arm, or what ever else?
How good is that AFLAC insurance? How many claims can you make before it runs out?
I started with Taiwan tools back in the day, worked up to Craftsman, then traded out for whoever came into the parking lot the
day I needed the tool. The Craftsman got replaced and taken home. Taiwans went either home or trash.
It takes longer to wear out quality tools and generally they are safer to use.
However, I still do not have my aircraft carrier box filled with one brand.
Someone called me that once inadvertently.
He said that, "anyone who could set up a Chevy choke with the bi-metal spring was a professional mechanic."
I walked over to my '68 Chevy truck and demonstrated my trucks cold start with no problems. I then told him the Chrysler's were
just a tad more difficult and one shop in town took three days t get them dialed in."
I never really considered myself a "Professional Mechanic".
I am just a guy who works on cars. Some people say I am good, some say good for nothing.
Newest thing in my fleet currently is a 2005 Chrysler. The wife drives it mostly.
I have pulled a few wrenches in my time. I retired a year ago and now I only pull them for myself.
Harbor freight compared to Snap/Mac, etc. . .
Hardness of metal come into play. Harbor freight sockets are not the greatest and will not hold up with continuous use.
Some of the wrenches aren't too bad, but, and the key word is but, The next question comes in at how much force would you be
wiling to put on a wrench, where if it slips or breaks, will possibly injure your hand, arm, or what ever else?
How good is that AFLAC insurance? How many claims can you make before it runs out?
I started with Taiwan tools back in the day, worked up to Craftsman, then traded out for whoever came into the parking lot the
day I needed the tool. The Craftsman got replaced and taken home. Taiwans went either home or trash.
It takes longer to wear out quality tools and generally they are safer to use.
However, I still do not have my aircraft carrier box filled with one brand.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
I have a lot of tools I've bought over the years from auctions,yard sales,etc probably fill up 30 good size tool boxes easy They range from Sanapon on down to Cheap as were sold.
The better brands like Snapon,Williams,old Craftsman etc are definitely better,tougher and nicer to use.I have a set of Craftsman impact sockets got about 30 or so years ago
have used them with impact guns,breaker bars and rachets a lot over the years they still are in great shape and are my go to sockets when I need a socket.
The better brands like Snapon,Williams,old Craftsman etc are definitely better,tougher and nicer to use.I have a set of Craftsman impact sockets got about 30 or so years ago
have used them with impact guns,breaker bars and rachets a lot over the years they still are in great shape and are my go to sockets when I need a socket.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
Joe I only got involved with it twice. Both times as a helper. I had to wear a flash suit. One time as the safety man on the pull rope. But the system was still live so we stopped all work. Went to the main breaker tagged it out and fired the man that was supposed to have done it. Then we laid the bonding straps. To kill the system.
The second time I was helping to take readings on the system. Back in the monkey suit one hand in my pocket. I was nervous the whole time. I never went near that stuff again. I have seen what high voltage can do to you.
The second time I was helping to take readings on the system. Back in the monkey suit one hand in my pocket. I was nervous the whole time. I never went near that stuff again. I have seen what high voltage can do to you.
Ive been turning wrenches for over 30 years, and Dad has been
doing the same for close to 50 years. In other words, I can
say for a fact a professional mechanic would be smart enough
not to do that.
It's not necessarily because any one brand is always superior to
another, or because another brand is always junk, it's simply
because every tool has a purpose. If the tool you're using
accomplishes what you want to accomplish with it, then it's done
it's job.
As I said in my other post in this thread, I've got tools of all
ages, and from a wide variety of mfgs. They all do exactly what
I need them to do. That's because I'm smart enough to realise
that there's no need to spend $50 for a tool to do a job that
can just as easily be done with a $5 tool.
doing the same for close to 50 years. In other words, I can
say for a fact a professional mechanic would be smart enough
not to do that.
It's not necessarily because any one brand is always superior to
another, or because another brand is always junk, it's simply
because every tool has a purpose. If the tool you're using
accomplishes what you want to accomplish with it, then it's done
it's job.
As I said in my other post in this thread, I've got tools of all
ages, and from a wide variety of mfgs. They all do exactly what
I need them to do. That's because I'm smart enough to realise
that there's no need to spend $50 for a tool to do a job that
can just as easily be done with a $5 tool.
billfromwisconsin
Member
Well, here is my take on it. Mac, Matco, and Snap-on are by far the best metal wise. I have had good luck with most sockets I have ever bought except early harbor freight and discount store models. Steel is too soft, dont hold up. My favorite rachet(yes, I have many) is still the old Craftsman fine tooth drive form the 70's. I think they are the best, but everybody is different. That is why it is hard to compare here, everybody has different standards to rate stuff by.
I will say Harbor Freight tools these days are WAY better than the junk they sold 20 years ago.
I will say Harbor Freight tools these days are WAY better than the junk they sold 20 years ago.
kevinstuff
Member
Well I prefer my Mac impact sockets over Snap On ,
But there is one thing to look for , and that is the
difference between brands , Old SK 3/8 drive sockets
are shorter than most , Some brands like old Thorsen
are deeper , and some craftsman have very thin walls
but still plenty strong , and of course there are thin shaft
extensions like early Proto , Old Craftsman that allow wiggle
room . Then the old school locking pin sockets that have
Holes drilled to accept locking pin extensions ! Which have been
Replaced by locking extensions . So to me It?s the variety
of design among different brands that has me owning
many different kinds from many different years
But there is one thing to look for , and that is the
difference between brands , Old SK 3/8 drive sockets
are shorter than most , Some brands like old Thorsen
are deeper , and some craftsman have very thin walls
but still plenty strong , and of course there are thin shaft
extensions like early Proto , Old Craftsman that allow wiggle
room . Then the old school locking pin sockets that have
Holes drilled to accept locking pin extensions ! Which have been
Replaced by locking extensions . So to me It?s the variety
of design among different brands that has me owning
many different kinds from many different years
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