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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Made in America..

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Mule Meat

03-14-2019 18:02:30




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Tell me again which is better. An American made Toyota or an imported GM truck?? Toyota putting Americans to work while GM puts them on welfare.

====== ============

BUFFALO, W.Va. (AP) — Toyota Motor Corp. on Thursday announced it is investing an additional $750 million at five U.S. plants that will bring nearly 600 new jobs, including the production of two hybrid vehicles for the first time at its Kentucky facility.

It marks yet another expansion of the Japanese automaker's U.S. presence, bringing to nearly $13 billion the amount it will spend by 2021.

The latest investments are at facilities in Alabama, Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee and West Virginia. Those same facilities were part of a 2017 announcement by Toyota for a $374 million investment to support production of its first American-made hybrid powertrain.

---------------

BUFFALO, WV (WOWK) - Toyota announced they are investing $111,000,000 in West Virginia, which will bring 123 more jobs to the Buffalo plant.

They made the announcement at their news conference at 11 AM on Thursday, March 14th, 2019 at the plant in Buffalo, WV.

West Virginia Commerce Secretary, Ed Gaunch said, "I think it should give people hope and excitement about what can happen in West Virginia. Just to see what Toyota's doing and how they're growing here. Other companies can do the same thing."

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DIM

03-18-2019 04:13:20




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Don't forget if it was not American companys making war material we would have lost WW 2.



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dhermesc

03-18-2019 06:00:37




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to DIM, 03-18-2019 04:13:20  
Where those American companies building trucks and tanks in Mexico and Brazil?



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chuck2015

03-17-2019 22:03:11




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The vehicles were manufactured in Germany by the corporate divisions of those 2 companies with the knowledge and cooperation of the parent companies in the US. GM and Ford both used US manufacturing technology to help the German war machine. This is a well known fact.



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dhermesc

03-18-2019 06:22:03




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to chuck2015, 03-17-2019 22:03:11  
Because if the Henry Ford ordered the Ford plants shut down in Nazi Germany - they would have been shut down and closed and there was nothing the Nazis could do about it - right?


You might want to study up on how the National Socialists treated private industry and how large industrial plants operated - especially during war time. Think how GM and Chrysler operated while in bankruptcy in 2009 and you'll have an idea.

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SVcummins

03-17-2019 21:49:47




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
I’d just as soon be caught riding a mule as driving a Toyota and Toyota doesn’t build a one ton truck anyway



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showcrop

03-17-2019 17:26:29




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
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How did they get them past the German U-boats that were running up and down our coast.



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Paglenn

03-17-2019 16:25:47




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Iam satisfied with my 2017 Tacoma.




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Pitch

03-17-2019 07:54:43




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Toyota, Nissan, Mahindra, Honda, Mercedes,,all build vehicles here. Not only do they employ thousands of Americans, their presence enable thousands of other local jobs.

Mary Sue runs a diner, Fastenal has put in another store,Grainger opened another account, food trucks go to the plants,quite possibly the industrial gas suppliers have put on another truck,local contractors pick up jobs at the plants, the tire store sells more tires than they would without the plants, Home Depot, Lowes, appliance stores, groceries, restaurants,every aspect of the local economy is boosted.

How many homes and businesses have been opened or built solely due to the presence of these damn invaders?
What is the downside?

You're crying cause maybe 200 bucks on a 20000 dollar vehicle goes to a foreign country?
I suppose in your eyes it would be better if these Dang ferriners would pack up and leave!

Of course then you would be moaning that there are thousands of lazy under achieving factory workers looking for foo stamps and a handout. Of course we could train all of them to be home aide caretakers for 8 dollars an hour!

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Stephen Newell

03-17-2019 07:52:48




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
I don't pay any attention to where something is made anymore. They are all competing to make the cheapest junk they possibly can so what difference does it make. I'm inclined to buy something old and fix it rather than buy new. The newest vehicle I own is 20 years old and it's too new for my taste. Too much electronics.



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Bob - MI

03-17-2019 07:39:33




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
There's actually 2 questions here, one being which is better and the other what do you think about buying a truck made in the US vs. Mexico.

As an ex-automotive supplier I had the opportunity to deal directly with quality, engineering, and procurement folks at Ford, Chrysler, GM, Toyota, and Honda. Of all the folks from Toyota were the most professional and at the same time the most detail oriented of all.

In the early 2000's they had one of their subsidiaries who was making aluminum die-cast parts for transmissions open a plant in Tiffin, OH to do small scale casting but larger scale assembly work. I asked them why they were doing that and the answer was that Toyota wanted to grow domestic content and they wanted to have a larger US presence. Their plan was to develop a US supply base for castings and then supplement that need at their plant based on volume. The alloy standard in Japan was ADC-12 aluminum with our equivalent being A-380 alloy. Chemistry on these were almost identical but the typical Japanese overly cautious approach required sample production here and then 18 months of testing before they would release us. Bear in mind that while that was being conducted they had invested close to 1/2 million dollars in tooling that sat idle waiting on results. That made me a believer in their dedication to quality.

On the flip side, GM and Chrysler were the masters of in your face finger pointing. Parts failing in service were always the fault of the supplier and it was impossible to show them the troublesome areas of the designs. Had a key part that went on the Corvette convertible that was such a bad design we wrote a letter to GM alerting them of a high likelihood of failure. GM engineering came to our plant and stated that "there's no need to worry, it just has to make it through the warranty period". Chrysler was hostile always and would chop the payments by 10% just because they wanted to even while under contract.

Ford and Honda were always pretty good and reasonable to talk to.

Today I drive a Honda Pilot which is made in Alabama and is tied with Ford F-150 for highest domestic content. Recently I have been looking at Toyota Tacoma trucks and like what I see. I considered the new Ranger from Ford but all engine options have a turbo charger and I don't want that.

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Crazy Horse

03-16-2019 17:16:23




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
If I'm spending $30 G's or more on a 1/2 ton truck, I could care less where it's made ..... here, Japan or Brazil. I would prefer to pay for the most reliable vehicle and if you do some Googling on a number of websites, it appears as if the Toyota is the best of the half ton pickups. Pretty simple decision for me. For bigger stuff like 3/4+ ton trucks, I'd simply check out the reliability reports which are available for any weight class.

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Ian Beale

03-16-2019 02:05:14




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
For comparison

Toyota Landcruiser

"The Land Cruiser's reliability and longevity has led to huge popularity, especially in Australia where it is the best-selling body-on-frame, four-wheel drive vehicle.[5] Toyota also extensively tests the Land Cruiser in the Australian outback – considered to be one of the toughest operating environments in both temperature and terrain"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser

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Lyndon - AB

03-15-2019 20:49:19




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Cool looking truck, but like others have said, only a concept truck. If they put such a truck into production, with an engine that could match or surpass the L96 Vortec, than I would certainly be interested. But, as I said, and will continue to say, until that happens I will stick with my GMC 3500HD.



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Oliver 500 Wa

03-15-2019 17:22:59




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
For 1/2 ton trucks IMO, you can't beat Toyota. Over the 1/2 ton mark you gotta look elsewhere since they are not in that market yet.

My Toyota has over 300k miles. Still has the original engine that uses less than a quart of oil in 5k miles, tranny, rear end, alternator, starter, and so on. Everything including the AC still works. Biggest repair to date has been replacing front ball joints. None of my friends with US built trucks have had such good service.

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Mule Meat

03-15-2019 14:24:26




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
[quote="Lyndon - AB"](quoted from post at 08:33:03 03/15/19) Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



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Kansas4010

03-15-2019 16:42:11




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-15-2019 14:24:26  
That's pretty nice but from what I just read it's only a concept truck. It's not remotely equipped the way I'd want it but it really doesn't matter because they're not building it.



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kencombs

03-15-2019 12:56:37




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
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Toyota does not make a 3/4t pu. Only1/2 ton. Tow rating up to 10,200 depending on the engine and cab combination

My '13 is on the lower end of the ratings 'cause it's a Crew Max. The added weight of the cab style is deducted from the payload and tow ratings.

GMC ratings for 1/2t up to 9300. Of course the 3500 series goes to 15K or so.

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d beatty

03-16-2019 08:09:20




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to kencombs, 03-15-2019 12:56:37  
You better lookup the 2019 towing specs. of Ford, Chevy-Gmc. Fords F150 is up to 13,200lbs. and Chevy-GMC 1500 is up to 12,200lbs.



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kencombs

03-16-2019 08:47:28




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to d beatty, 03-16-2019 08:09:20  
Those numbers I quoted came directly for the Toyota a GMC specs on their respective web pages. Didn't look at the others because the weren't being discussed.



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kencombs

03-16-2019 08:49:36




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to kencombs, 03-16-2019 08:47:28  
that should have said 'directly from the toyota and GMC web sites'



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Kansas4010

03-15-2019 12:50:45




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
My sister tried buying a Ford half ton crew cab and they wouldn't deal at all. I was there with her and they had the opinion if she didn't like what they had on the lot she could do without. Every truck on their lot was a platinum edition. She tried to get a plain jane xl and they told her it would only be $1,000 cheaper than the platinums. She went across the street to Toyota and bought a fully decked out Tundra for less than Ford was consider. She just bought it 6 months ago but so far it's been good and she hasn't had any complaints. If they made a ton truck I'd really consider Toyota. It was a pace truck and yes the stickers peeled off

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dhermesc

03-18-2019 06:04:12




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Kansas4010, 03-15-2019 12:50:45  
Where you at a certain Ford Dealer in Topeka KS?



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spacecadet9

03-15-2019 09:40:04




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
For those advocating Dodge: "Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge and Ram are owned by Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. This automotive group registered in the Netherlands" My DILs Jeep Renegade was made in Italy! As previously mentioned the corporate profits go to the executives and stockholders. Who knows what country the stockholders are in. ?? At the time of this posting on the New York Stock Exchange Toyota is up $1.45 and Fiat Chrysler was up $0.12 on the same exchange. Last time I checked the NYSE is in this country.

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Destroked 450

03-15-2019 09:22:49




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
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I stand corrected.

Only Ram 1500 is US built

All Ram Heavy Duty 2500, 3500 and larger are assembled in Mexico.

Fiat a non US owned company announced Jan 2018 that they would be moving HD Ram production back to the US by 2020 due to changing tax laws and possible import tariffs.

This move is to save the company money, although it will help the US labor force that's not the reason for the move.

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Lyndon - AB

03-15-2019 08:33:03




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
[quote="Mule Meat"](quoted from post at 23:05:19 03/14/19) Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Oh, I've certainly heard of Hino. Like you said, the commercial line of Toyota. Not a pickup truck. Never will be.

I'm not dissing Toyota quality. My folks have had several Camrys, and I like quality of them. But Toyota doesn't build a one ton pickup truck for the North American market. Until that time, my heavy hitter will always be a GMC.

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Mike M

03-15-2019 12:39:57




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Lyndon - AB, 03-15-2019 08:33:03  
I am really surprised Toyota has not gone after the 4 door dually truck market. Lots of them being used around Ohio hauling Amish construction crews. And horse trailers.



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jdr1943

03-15-2019 06:53:32




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Everyone has two things in common opinions and a&&%($es.



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Jon f mn

03-15-2019 06:45:08




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
The difference is on one the money benefits another country and the other it benefits ours. But using government motors is a bad example, they have been taking advantage of us for years and moving their factories is just the latest.



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chuck2015

03-15-2019 06:36:49




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
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Dean,

from wikipedia...

Nazi collaboration

In August 1938, a senior executive for General Motors, James D. Mooney, received the Grand Cross of the German Eagle for his distinguished service to the Reich. "Nazi armaments chief Albert Speer told a congressional investigator that Germany could not have attempted its September 1939 Blitzkrieg of Poland without the performance-boosting additive technology provided by Alfred P. Sloan and General Motors".[68][69] During the war, GM's Opel Brandenburg plant produced trucks, parts for Ju 88 aircraft, land mines and torpedo detonators for Nazi Germany.[70] Charles Levinson, formerly deputy director of the European office of the CIO, alleged in his book, Vodka-Cola extensive collaboration and information sharing between US and German divisions of General Motors during the war.[71]

Sloan's memoir presents a different picture of Opel's wartime existence.[72] According to Sloan, Opel was nationalized (along with most other industrial activity owned or co-owned by foreign interests) by the German state soon after the outbreak of war.[14] Sloan presents Opel at the end of the war as a black box to GM's American management—an organization that the Americans had had no contact with for 5 years. According to Sloan, GM in Detroit debated whether to even try to run Opel in the postwar era, or to leave to the interim West German government the question of who would pick up the pieces.[72]

In 1939, defending the German investment strategy as "highly profitable", Alfred P. Sloan had told shareholders that GM's continued industrial production for the Nazi government was merely sound business practice. In a letter to a concerned shareholder, Sloan said that the manner in which the Nazi government ran Germany "should not be considered the business of the management of General Motors...We must conduct ourselves as a German organization. . . We have no right to shut down the plant."[73]

After 20 years of researching General Motors, Bradford Snell stated, "General Motors was far more important to the Nazi war machine than Switzerland ... Switzerland was just a repository of looted funds. GM's Opel division was an integral part of the German war effort. The Nazis could have invaded Poland and Russia without Switzerland. They could not have done so without GM."[73]

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Dean

03-15-2019 11:07:00




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to chuck2015, 03-15-2019 06:36:49  
That is not even a claim, let alone proof, that GM and Ford provided trucks to the German Army during WWII.

Dean



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chuck2015

03-15-2019 06:29:44




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
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Dean,

Here is a link to an article....

https://dogandlemon.com/sites/default/files/cars_nazis.pdf

This does not constitute definitive proof as both GM and Ford both deny the allegations. Also IBM and Standard Oil were in there as well.



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Traditional Farmer

03-15-2019 06:38:29




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to chuck2015, 03-15-2019 06:29:44  
If the things I've seen on the subject are true During WWII the Swiss laundered the Gold and money for the Germans and did the dealings with South American companies to send aid and supplies
to the Germans.How and where
countries like Argentina obtained the supplies is questionable but companies that were shipping things to South America had to know something was up.Brazil and Argentina provided Nazi party members a haven after WWII.

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gregww

03-15-2019 06:20:50




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
If the US was ever involved in WW 3 with a major power country, I doubt planes and trucks are going to make much difference.



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1948CaseVAI

03-15-2019 04:56:34




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
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So what? In the meantime the families of all those American workers have food on the table.



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chuck2015

03-15-2019 04:46:21




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
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Why not? GM and Ford supplied the German army with trucks in WW2.



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Dean

03-15-2019 05:35:08




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to chuck2015, 03-15-2019 04:46:21  
I'll need to see proof of that, Chuck.

Dean



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Fawteen

03-15-2019 03:51:15




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Well, this whole topic falls under the heading of wrassling with hogs, but I'll just say I traded my '06 GMC K2500 for a '13 Toyota Tundra and never looked back. Assuming I live long enough to want/need another new truck, it'll be another Toyota and I was a life-long Chevy/GMC guy.



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d beatty

03-15-2019 07:07:01




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Fawteen, 03-15-2019 03:51:15  
Your Tundra does not tow the same weight as the GMC . The GMC will tow from 3,000 to 4,000 lbs more weight. I am using the 2019 specs. for both trucks I worked with a gentleman that had a 3/4 Toyota and it could not tow as much weight as the Ford or Chevy.



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Fawteen

03-15-2019 17:04:26




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to d beatty, 03-15-2019 07:07:01  
Tows anything I need towed, that's all that counts for me.



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Deere Scotty

03-15-2019 01:59:59




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
From what I understand (Having not owned a Toyota) I work with some people that own them, & they... ALL OF THEM!!! run circles around me in terms of reliability on my Chevrolet 2005 K3500. I only had 27 warranty problems in the 1st 100,000 miles... Thats all. So I would try a Toyota, & I am willing to bet hard money that I would like it!!! But I understand its not going to ever pull, or haul like a K3500.

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Traditional Farmer

03-15-2019 04:19:59




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Deere Scotty, 03-15-2019 01:59:59  
Not a truck but my wife's Toyota Corolla 1997 model has 270,000+ miles on it and has very few things done to it.Power steering pump was the only major part replaced about a year ago.
I'd drive it anywhere.My mother bought a Ford sedan about the same time had many problems after it broke a timing belt we sold it for parts less than 90,000 on it.



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Mule Meat

03-14-2019 23:05:19




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
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That has to be the biggest joke that has ever existed..

A Japanese company that has 600 workers here in the US. That is 600 families that are fed, clothed, and housed, that earn wages, pays taxes and spends their money here that supports other business. That company makes a little profit and sends it back to Japan.

GM puts 600 workers out of a job so that they can move to Mexico. That is 600 families that YOUR TAX dollars will end up having to fed, house, clothe and provide medical care for.. They will be on welfare eventually once their unemployment runs out. All so GM can make a bigger profit that will benefit no one except for a chosen few.

And you will not see nor benefit from even one thin dime of that profit..

Prove me wrong..

============

"Toyota doesn't make a truck that will do what my Sierra 3500 can do. Until such time, I'll stick with GM."

Toyota builds trucks that can do things you GM could only dream of..

Maybe you have never heard of Hino trucks. One class of them is build here in WV.. Well Hino is the commercial line of Toyota trucks.

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4520bw

03-15-2019 02:45:53




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 23:05:19  
Their wages and benefits are less not to mention mandatory over time.



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Destroked 450

03-14-2019 21:59:47




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
57% of all parts made for Toyota are made in USA

35% of all GM parts are made in USA

More US jobs are supported by Toyota than GM.

Ford fulls in the middle at around 44%

All Dodge pickups are made in Mexico so I'm not even figuring them in.



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DR. EVIL

03-15-2019 04:55:58




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Destroked 450, 03-14-2019 21:59:47  
Totally wrong. My 2018 Ram 1500 4wd 5.7L Hemi was made in Warren Michigan, plant employs over 6000 people, and FCA is spending over a BILLION DOLLARS to expand production at that plant. Articles all over the I internet about it, look it up! Get your facts straight before you shoot your mouth off.

I drove Ford pickups for over 38 years, when I think about how much I worked on my first Ford truck I'm surprised I bought the second one. The third one was better than great, '96 F250 diesel 4wd with manual trans. After 23 years and 304,000 miles I gave it to my Son, it's his daily driver. It had some issues, still does, but one by one Son has fixed them. Front leaf springs sagged out, rides on bump stops, Son's going to rebuild a Dana 60 and install it with a reverse shackle kit so it rides better. And the exhaust manifold studs are rusting out, manifolds leak a bit, lowers boost & HP.

Guy on another website bragged a out Toyota replacing the rusted out frame on his 6-7 year old Toyota pickup. I live in the rust belt, Wisconsin. I didn't for a second consider getting a Toyota truck because they obviously have terrible rust issues, or a Nissan, or a Chevy. I priced a 2018 Ford from the same salesman I bought my '96 from the day before I visited my Ram dealer. I REALLY like my new Ram. Not a single problem with it, had two recalls for computer refresh done, one for side airbags, other for cruise control.

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johnlobb

03-15-2019 04:46:32




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Destroked 450, 03-14-2019 21:59:47  
Hmmm...I have driven by the Chrysler Jefferson Ave assembly plant in Detroit and see hundreds of NEW Dodge (Ram) pickups stored outside. There are sometimes reports of neighborhood denizens busting through one of the gates in a stolen rig, and the thieves piling out and each driving a new Dodge truck (or maybe Ram) out through the hole on the fence.



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Lyndon - AB

03-14-2019 19:26:39




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Toyota doesn't make a truck that will do what my Sierra 3500 can do. Until such time, I'll stick with GM.



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rustred

03-14-2019 20:24:10




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Lyndon - AB, 03-14-2019 19:26:39  
yep me too! longest lasting truck out there with least repair.



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Steve A W

03-14-2019 19:02:20




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Is toyota going to make tanks and aircraft for our military so we can win WW3 ?
Nuf said.



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moresmoke

03-14-2019 19:22:33




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Steve A W, 03-14-2019 19:02:20  
Maybe, maybe not. But in times of war, industrial plants make what they are told to.



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Hobo,NC

03-14-2019 18:48:32




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Their biggest expense it labor I doubt all the labor makes its way back to japan...



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t.r.k.

03-14-2019 18:43:48




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
Yes.

But any profit they make goes straight back to Japan. No chance for it to 'tricke down' here in the U.S.



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Traditional Farmer

03-15-2019 04:23:04




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to t.r.k., 03-14-2019 18:43:48  
Profits actually go to the shareholders which can be anywhere in the World,if you have a 401(k) plan you might be a shareholder.



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Bob Harvey

03-14-2019 19:21:51




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to t.r.k., 03-14-2019 18:43:48  
And, the problem with that is ? American companies with 'offshore' production and lo cost local labor put their profit to local improvement ? Give your head a BIG shake.



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Hobo,NC

03-14-2019 18:41:44




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 Re: Made in America.. in reply to Mule Meat, 03-14-2019 18:02:30  
The best GM's were re-badged Toyota's... For the poor man anyways... GM struck out at every attempt they tried to make a comparable Toyota...



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